[Closed] LBS closing

to be honest the shop that the op had/has is not a very good one.
whenever something was needed to be bought it was rarely in stock on the times that I tried to buy from them. always, we will order it in for you.
customers don't want this yet we seem to accept it for some reason. it is bad business.
if I need a bike bit, I want it now so that I can fix my bike and get on with whatever is planned.

I think this shows you have little comprehension about how a LBS could operate. If you think you can open an LBS which carries stock of everything tom, dick and harry might want when they just pop in, please go ahead and show us how it's done.

I think this shows you have little comprehension about how a LBS could operate

on the opposite really. one of the shops I use for wheelbuilding also keeps in stock odd things like tents, and sleeping bags, oh and just last week he sold me a 8 speed shimano cassette. a proper well stocked shop, with staff who know their onions, who don't try and fob you off with excuses and stuff you don't need.

these type of shops are still open and are booming.

bigjim -

to be honest the shop that the op had/has is not a very good one. whenever something was needed to be bought it was rarely in stock on the times that I tried to buy from them. always, we will order it in for you.
customers don't want this yet we seem to accept it for some reason. it is bad business. if I need a bike bit, I want it now so that I can fix my bike and get on with whatever is planned.

I think this shows you have little comprehension about how a LBS could operate. If you think you can open an LBS which carries stock of everything tom, dick and harry might want when they just pop in, please go ahead and show us how it's done.

Half and half on this, you cannot carry everything that you might need but I've been in shops where they says its going to take a week to get it in stock, If I can get it in a few days, why cant they get it faster?

If I can get it in a few days, why cant they get it faster?

It's possible that they are tied in to an agreement that they have to get certain ranges through the distributor otherwise they don't get supplied with other stuff. Pub tenancies often work like this - the landlord has to buy the spirits from the brewery even though she/he could nip down to the Cash and Carry and get them cheaper from there.

So we need more LBS based on the "free house" model.

As many people have said above, LBS need to change.

Ben Cooper's shop isn't a 'normal' (as in he's a bit special).

Is it one of these social enterprise type things to help the otherwise unemployable find gainful employment?

Genuine question here..Does a LBS have to use the official brand importers? Say for instance I wanted a new rear mech fitted. Could the shop not just buy it from CRC, or even better Halfords with a 10% BC discount. Even adding a mark-up it would appear that it would be cheaper than buying from the importers? You'd then also get the service fee for fitting.

I do most of my spannering myself, but would quite happily (and often do) buy from my LBS if something is a few quid more. Clearly though there is a limit on how much extra anybody is willing to spend to buy locally.

Could the shop not just buy it from CRC,

yes, common practice at the op's shop I was once told.

I've worked in a shop where we did that. An alternative is for the customer to supply parts and pay for fitting.

Makes sense to me. I'd actually happily pay a premium over buying directly from CRC et al just to avoid the faf of having to run to the Royal Mail sorting office. I'd just assumed that for some reason a LBS can't do this due to some agreement between the manufacturer & importers.

Sancho - Sorry to hear about Crosstrax. I've never been down myself (a bit far) but nearly did a few years back. Was looking to buy a Transition but ended up going with another brand in the end which you didn't stock. Spoken to plenty who have used you though, all with nothing but good things to say.

It reminds me of the Pubco's. The breweries who milk their own landlords, who run their own tied pubs, by screwing them on the beer they sell them, but then sell cheap to the supermarkets, who then further undermine their own pubs

Obviously I'm not an economist but it just seems like a suicidal business model

I'd almost say that breweries aren't the ones killing pubs, it's the internet, just like LBS's.

Say you owned a freehouse, you can buy in niche beers and big brands, but it's still not going to be much easier than running a pubco pub. Because even a microbrewery is going to try and sell to Tesco who sell it at £1.50 a bottle. The comparison would be for example Hope* or Chromag* coming out and saying they'll only be available via LBS's (or say Wytchwood turning round and saying they're going cask only*).

What's killing pubs is that they're no longer needed as a social network. You can organise a night ride starting from some random car park on the internet, no need for a meeting in the pub, you can find your next boyfriend/girlfriend/bit on the side on tinder, why bother with the bar?

Pubs are adapting, good ones are doing what good LBS are/should be doing by offering something you can't get online (a decent 'gastropub' meal), or the pub equivalent of the shop ride in a pub quiz, karaoke, hosting the local CAMRA group, etc.

*none of that is true, but might work for the LBS's, but in reality we'd probably just buy another brand.

What's killing pubs is that they're no longer needed as a social network. You can organise a night ride starting from some random car park on the internet, no need for a meeting in the pub, you can find your next boyfriend/girlfriend/bit on the side on tinder, why bother with the bar?

Very true.

Don't forget having a pointless "debate" with a bigot about politics or immigration, aka half the contents of the chat forum.

Open a LBS at a trail venue.

My LBS happened to be in the midst of the Surrey Hills, both local to my house and to the trails but that's quite rare.

Open a LBS at a trail venue

"Only just last week he sold me a 8 speed shimano cassette"

Hes only been waiting to get rid of that since 1999.

Fwiw i looked at opening a local shop last year. There is demand

The maths just doesnt add up, i wasnt expecting a big wage but if i wanted the maths to work i had to run it out of my garage as anywhere (small) commercial just meant you had to clear silly money just to keep the door open.

Now i know why there is demand and no shops locally i regard as good. So i travel 60 miles to my old shop.

Edinburgh bicycle coop are closing their shedffield shop soon.

A top tip for anyone planning on opening their own shop - a trait I admire and think is crazy in equal doses - be patient for the right premises. Anyone who's been to see us will know we have a pretty cool little location. Its not glamorous, but its cool and in a good spot, with riding in the back yard pretty much. We waited months to find that place. Best part of a year. Not only is it quite cool, its cheap as. I think we probably couldn't have survived if we'd gone to a mainstream 'high street' warehouse equivalent. Now we're bigger that would be fine, but of course we don't want to leave and are in discussions to take over more of the site, but even now going to mainstream rents would be a big , big jump, certainly round our way. Patience and a lot of hunting will reap dividends.

The rumours about Edinburgh coop closing in Sheffield have been doing the rounds since it opened.

cant believe everything you read on the internet can you

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/edinburgh-bicycle-co-operative-announce-closure-of-sheffield-branch/019103

It's a tough game for any small business. Everyone plays hard ball when your small! yet bend over backwards and hold in such [b]high regard[/b] big corps, who stick two fingers up, don't pay tax (collect it off employees though), bully suppliers, treat employees like shit, decamp their entire production to Asia/cheaper labour markets, start off cheap but once competition is reduced/bought up, reduce quality and ramp up prices relentlessly, you couldn't make it up! Sorry slightly off topic rant.

Some good points from those in the know. 😉 Nice to see the wannabe Claude Littner, armchair never put their money where their mouths are, corporate trouble shooters sorting things out as usual 😆

Sorry Ben but got to ask..... You say you don't deal with OEM stock, suggest you go via the distributor and present a model of a successful bike shop/ bike manufacturer.... With that being so how do you compete spec wise with the mega discounters? Does direct selling really save that much?

If so, lbs' are doomed as why wouldn't more people follow your model and therefore dispense with the need for a shop?

Is it one of these social enterprise type things to help the otherwise unemployable find gainful employment?

Hey!

Actually, that's uncomfortably close to the truth 😀

ghostlymachine - Member
TBH most people who are remotely interested in cycling as a sport/hobby rather than a mode of transport generally aren't LBS customers.

Not sure that is true TBH.

We did the bike park / shop very successfully at Freeborn Esher. Shop open 9 years, bike park 8.5 years. At its peak 250 riders a week visiting from all over UK. Park built by passionate volunteers with cash support for material from Specialized UK and Freeborn.

Specialist retailer focused on gravity / enduro / dirt jump markets also UK importer of brands Ellsworth, Banshee, Stan's, Devinci.

Tiny premises and 2 staff plus access to exclusive brands and oe stock meant very profitable. Shop rammed full of frames/forks/wheels, body armour, full face helmets, dh tires and so much other kit. I'd typically have 30 pairs of disc brakes in stock on any day. I could sell 4-5 dh bikes a week. Loads of custom builds, riders from London visiting to get all the kit we stock that London shops didn't.

Ironically the landlord killed us. When we knocked down the north shore (freeriding had its day) all the dirt imported and heavy plant got the land owners nervous and our landlord panicked. Our lease was then subject to weekly (!) review, no basis on which to continue trading.

Park flattened by land owner, shop following a month later.

A unique circumstance, probably never to be repeated.

some odd "visitors" at Esher from time to time too, certainly helped put the shop and park on the map 😉

the legend that is Rob Warner

[img] [/img]

the "godfather" of freeride, Wade Simmons

[img] [/img]

Sorry Ben but got to ask..... You say you don't deal with OEM stock, suggest you go via the distributor and present a model of a successful bike shop/ bike manufacturer.... With that being so how do you compete spec wise with the mega discounters? Does direct selling really save that much?

No we do OEM - thats how we can compete. I was saying I'd personally not been sold OE stuff over my many years of being a customer to the likes of CRC and Wiggle.

[quote="jamj1974"]Not sure that is true TBH.Basing it on what i've noticed over the time i've spent in shops and racing/riding across most of europe. The people who race/ride hard/actually go out for the day to "cycle" rather than the cycling being a means of getting somewhere. *usually* do their own spannering. Most shops i've worked in the majority (85%) of bikes that come in are used for leisurely pottering or commuting.

As i agreed earlier though, the huge numbers of newcomers to cycling has probably skewed this a lot.

What's to stop a bike shop shipping in frames, selling as an own brand then buy stock direct, rather than from Madison etc?

The cost, there'll be a minimum order of frames, and minimum order quantity for groupsets to ge OE pricing, hence some of the smaller UK frame suppliers selling OE stuff after market as they can't possibly sell enough bikes to use all the minimum order quantity of groupsets/suspension

[quote=chestrockwell ]What's to stop a bike shop shipping in frames, selling as an own brand then buy stock direct, rather than from Madison etc?

Nothing. See Merlin, Ribble rtc.

Esher, is that Doddy with Rob too?
I always wanted to visit Esher, but I was too young to drive and didn't have very willing parents.

The shop at BPW seems to do very well. I always stand in a queue whenever I buy something there. Some nice ideas there too, like the Enve demos. The whole centers well setup really with the Cafe, shop, rentals and uplift.

cokie - The shop at BPW seems to do very well. I always stand in a queue whenever I buy something there. Some nice ideas there too, like the Enve demos. The whole centers well setup really with the Cafe, shop, rentals and uplift.

If only all bike shops could start with a 2 million pound investment and be at a UK biking Mecca eh?

TBH most people who are remotely interested in cycling as a sport/hobby rather than a mode of transport generally aren't LBS customers.

That's not true, it depends on your LBS, my last two bikes and almost everything on them have come from local shops, the bike chain (now closed) and pedals in Edinburgh, both with a good following of regular customers as far as I can see. Conversely Edinburgh bike co-op stock absolutely nothing of interest to me whatsoever, it's all commuter orientated stuff and cheap own brand tat that is listed on alibaba for a tenth of the price.

Maybe the way forward is for lbs' to form links with others and buy OEM?

Like Euronics, where Indy home electricals buy as a (European wide) collective to be able to take on the big chains?

It'd be like herding cats trying to organize a load of LBS owners 😆 😉

@LoCo

agree, it works for convenience stores, but can't see a buying group / co-operative working in the UK for LBS

different bike brands, different P&A brands, different customers doing different disciplines of riding

its certainly going to be an "interesting" year in 2016, many shop managers I regularly speak to in both LBS and chain stores, are keenly watching to see if there is the 'usual' pickup in sales coming out of Winter, or whether things have actually changed - what some retail analysts call the "new normal"

regarding the role of the distributor; they are in a hard place, they made considerable profits before the growth of internet retailing started to challenge the traditional supply chain model

I work in the bike trade and don't bother buying any shimano goods from our store through our trade account, its always more expensive than buying from on-line retailers. I saved £98 by buying my Shimano road wheels from Wiggle than getting them from Madison at trade + vat.

Customers are not stupid, I've heard the phrase about the smartphone "free access to perfect information" (of course the internet has misinformation, but you get the idea). It's not uncommon to see any customer pull out a smartphone and look for the best price when you give them even a discounted price in the hope of selling some stock.

When I speak to customers whilst quoting repairs I often hear the tap..tap of their keyboard in the background and they will question the prices we have given for components fitted to workshop jobs. If they want to supply the goods themselves of course I will fit them, we will charge them for our time and its the most profitable part of our business.

But why then hold anything but inexpensive service stock, for customers who don't know enough to find an Acera mech cheaper on-line. I find customers owning bikes with 105, Ultegra, XT, Sram all know the prices and will shop on price when there is such a big discrepancy in price between what retailers can stomach and what the broken distribution model allows on-line retailers to offer.

a lean 'just in time' vertical distribution model is possibly the future, there are rumours circulating that Shimano may even distribute direct to retailers in the future cutting out current middlemen.

The people who race/ride hard/actually go out for the day to "cycle" rather than the cycling being a means of getting somewhere. *usually* do their own spannering. Most shops i've worked in the majority (85%) of bikes that come in are used for leisurely pottering or commuting.

hence some of the smaller UK frame suppliers selling OE stuff after market

Always amazes me when I see this - our OE accounts are locked up so tight we have to ask permission to sell off dead stock, and don't always get a yes. That said, there are bike companies out in the far east that specialise in over ordering stock so they can dump it on the grey market. Beats having to sell a proper bike I guess.

Agree with mikewsmith,I want to ride my bike.when I get free time, not service it. The local lbs look after my bike way better than I could and it means the bike runs well all the time. I value being sat on the saddle more than being stood next to a work stand.

Gutted.

Off the top of my head from Crosstrax I maybe bought in the last few years...

2 pairs of hand-built wheels. The second pair on the basis of the strength of the first.

Some bike wash I'd never heard of but they persuaded me was good. It is.

A Hope order for a bike build with an acceptable markup on the very cheapest that I knew I could buy it for, given the amount of time I spent in the shop choosing what I wanted.

Some gloves that I tried on to make sure they fit.

A jacket when it was raining.

Some Stans sealant when I needed ride that day.

Probably a few nuts bolts and widgets along the way too.

I'm very aware that over the course of several years that hardly makes me a great LBS customer. But for me Crosstrax was a great shop, run by great guys.

I love building bikes and sourcing exactly the components I want is not something that I would dream of a single shop doing.

Good luck Sancho and hopefully the plan that I heard about for cheaper premises a bit further out is something that comes off in the future.

I've got a question for LBS owners who buy their stuff from online retailers. What happens with warranty claims?

They probably have an account with them.

Account includes sending item away for warranty.

No & No

Sancho- no idea where you are in the country but well done on your business over the year's and it's nice to hear youve got a great deal of satisfaction out of your work both for yourself and the local community.

I have just bought a new bike from the guys at Delta bikes in Dursley (my LBS since moving to the area in 2014) & it did give me a great sense of reward that I handed over my hard earned £'s to a small local outfit rather than a huge online operator.

Good luck for the future.