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What andyrm said...
Road has slowed/plateaud, MTB is in boom at the moment across the board, last quarter for 2015 was a tough one (finished a lot of LBS' off that couldn't deal with the contraction), and there's still too much 2015 stock on the shelves right now as a result. But there's money out there...
Case in point, already spoken to a customer this morning on the phone... "Price me up an Evil Insurgent would you" (to go alongside his Yeti SB5c no less!) "I was going to buy a new car, but I don't really enjoy them like I used to and the depreciation in the first year would be twice the price of the new bike!"
For us
We had changed with the times
Our model had switched to servicing and we have been selling our own brand frames
I have given up with the UK distribution model.
Our workshop is packed out.
We are constantly buying tools because they are wearing out from so much use.
We encourage and help customers buy online
We buy our sram and shimano kit online
The
We will see what happens in the future and keep an eye out for a British designed and manufactured carbon range of mountain bikes
Our workshop is packed out.
We are constantly buying tools because they are wearing out from so much use.
can only agree, my LBS is the same and just moving to larger shop.
I think most of us can fix mend the basics but I do rely on my LBS for the tricky jobs or where special tools are needed and the likes of TF Tuned. I do buy on line for consumables, clothing and boots. Just better choice, right size and competitive price. I cant see the local shop competing with the range of stock and sizes.
Know your market and customers and aim for that. Don't try and take on the big boys.
Mboy.
Ton has an issue with Mr
And no I am not blaming anyone for the shop closing
We couldn't agree a new lease and the landlord did a 180 on discussions we had been having
To n's comment is just typical of him as he feels we are a bad shop because he doesn't like me.
firstly and foremost, me saying a good bike shop will stay open, was not meant to be a insult to anyone. just good common sense.
shops like woodrupps in leeds are a testament to this.
secondly, this is aimed at Ed, wtf are you talking about.
when have I ever had a bad word with you? can you please remind me.
Madison distribute Shimano in the UK. CRC don't buy from them though, hence the discrepancy in pricing. Maybe Madison need to strike a better deal with Shimano or reduce their margin. Maybe Shimano need to look at their OEM vs Retail pricing.
Aren't the middle-man distributors part of the problem? Basically we are paying extra for an unnecessary link in the retail chain. A handful of companies dictating the price of just about everything cycling related - does this happen in many other retail areas?
Are you proposing that every shop deals directly with Shimano, etc?
Pretty well every retail sector will have something similar set up, the main exceptions would be retailers like M&S who have their own production and supply chain.
Pretty well every retail sector will have something similar set up, the main exceptions would be retailers like M&S who have their own production and supply chain.
That's not really correct, is it?
When I worked in the food industry we would supply M&S, plus all of the other big retailers. We didn't supply food to a distribution company who had sole rights to supply the shops and define the price.
Bike shops are different model because there are so many small independents, but it bothers me that Madison are the only importer of Shimano, for example.
And I haven't seen this distribution method in other hobby areas, although I haven't looked into it so maybe talking rubbish! Do Shimano supply the UK with fishing gear through a distributor? Do camera shops use this method? And so on..
The idea of the distributor is that through the power of their bulk purchasing they are able to introduce economies of scale and provide buffering on stock levels. This isn't happening (effectively) as CRC, bike discount, etc are able to retail at below trade prices. If the distributor can't access these prices, and don't appear to be that great at distribution in sensible timescales either what is their purpose?
If the distributor can't access these prices, and don't appear to be that great at distribution in sensible timescales either what is their purpose?
Dealing with warranties of the super cheap stuff bought from CRC etc
I too have recently closed my shop, 24 years gone. In fact we've been trading since 1904, shopping habits have now changed forever.
Squeezed by increasing rates/rent, pressure on margins and a drop in sales.
I never did it for the money, I enjoyed my job, nothing can replace that.
Sadly I'm now leaving the bike trade for good, I see no future in it anymore.
'USE THEM OR LOSE THEM'
[quote=LoCo ]
Dealing with warranties of the super cheap stuff bought from CRC etcThey should either have that priced into their agreement with the manufacturer or refuse to work on stuff they haven't supplied. It certainly shouldn't affect the cost that the can supply to their own retailers.If the distributor can't access these prices, and don't appear to be that great at distribution in sensible timescales either what is their purpose?
But you aren't/weren't exporting.
M&S may have been a poor example, cameras? The big companies, Nikon, Canon, Olympus, etc. have their own local (UK) franchises/distributors. Camera shops that import from say Honk Kong and sell here are the "grey imports". The manufacturers know from the serial numbers on the cameras where it was "meant" to be sold so might not honour the warranty - certainly this was the case some time ago, updates to GATT and possible legal challenges may have changed this.
firstly and foremost, me saying a good bike shop will stay open, was not meant to be a insult to anyone. just good common sense.
It really isn't. The rent on my old place almost doubled in 5 years, I was seriously thinking about packing it in. I was very lucky to find this new place with much lower rent, and a much nicer landlord, and now doing much, much better.
The old landlord stiffed me for an additional £8k to move out, and now he's rented the place to a pet grooming chain for an even higher rent.
Sorry to read that Sancho - best of luck with future ventures.
firstly and foremost, me saying a good bike shop will stay open, was not meant to be a insult to anyone. just good common sense.
I'm going to guess you don't work in a LBS. 😐
Sadly I'm now leaving the bike trade for good, I see no future in it anymore.
Yep I think there are quite a lot of people starting to feel like you too, the market is saturated with bike businesses with more people sinking their cash into stuff each week, I'd expect to see an awful lot of new start ups to go pop in the next 12 months. 🙁
Considering the bulk of turnover in a bike shop comes from selling bikes, its going to be interesting to see if the proposed new model of coffee/service/fitness actually provides any proper revenue
When I worked in a shop this wasn't the case. We had a good and well respected workshop and made far more in service and P&A than selling low mark-up complete bikes.
Money is in service/parts not bike sales for bike shops.
but there are plenty of bike shops that are booming business wise, so surely some of them are doing something right?
2 shops I use on a regular basis are doing pretty well, I know this because I am friends with the owner of one and the manager of the other.
they both have internet shops, but are still very good lbs type places.
maybe the business plans that the shops shutting down have been using, is not a very good business plan.
to be honest the shop that the op had/has is not a very good one.
whenever something was needed to be bought it was rarely in stock on the times that I tried to buy from them. always, we will order it in for you.
customers don't want this yet we seem to accept it for some reason. it is bad business.
if I need a bike bit, I want it now so that I can fix my bike and get on with whatever is planned.
It's not that simple though is it Ton, not just a case of good V bad shops, other factors of what products they can get due to what trade accounts they can get, the location of the shop ETC ETC.
The just vast range of products available mean that it's only the massive warehouses that can hold stock of 'everything'.
Ben Cooper's shop isn't a 'normal' (as in he's a bit special) bike shop as such so not the best example.
Bike shops are different model because there are so many small independents, but it bothers me that Madison are the only importer of Shimano, for example.
Wrong.
Chicken (if they still exist) import shimano, as do raleigh. Madison have the biggest range and are the main distributor.
Speaking of cra* LBS, is Dave Hind still trading ? 👿
Someone touched on the distribution model about a shop needing to have an order with the distributor for X-amount before it became free delivery. This meant that the shop couldn't just get an XT 11-36 cassette (for example) in for a customer as the delivery costs would be prohibitive.
Compare this with the motor trade where you have intermediate distributors (usually seem to be called XXX Factors) that are constantly delivering parts. If I drop my car off for a service and they don't have the part then they ring up the Factor and the part is delivered that day. Obviously the size/weight/value of car parts is pretty high so this sort of delivery model can be better absorbed but if LBSs are to compete then something like this needs to exist.
whenever something was needed to be bought it was rarely in stock on the times that I tried to buy from them. always, we will order it in for you.
customers don't want this yet we seem to accept it for some reason. it is bad business.
And this is what is partly killing the LBS. When I started 6 years ago as a small shop we could just about keep a wide enough range of say wheels in stock to cover pretty much every eventuality. (26 rim, 26 disk, bolted axles, quick release, bolt through, 700c hybrid rim brake and disk, 700c road at a few price points, etc etc). It was still a lot of wheels, but possible. Now it simply isn't, the 'industry' has introduced so many different sizes, standards, speeds, etc etc that it does take a huge warehouse to keep everything in stock. No LBS can have everything in stock, and half the stuff they now have in stock is obsolete and losing value.
To cover rent and costs an LBS needs to be able to sell bikes, parts, accessories and have a well run workshop. A workshop on its own has too many costs (staff pay is the biggie) and takes up too much space (bikes take up storage space, this has to be paid for). At the moment there is no profit in the retail side of things, and even a workshop with queues out of the door cannot take up the slack.
I'm not surprised shops are closing and I hope the OP will be able to find gainful employment or another way of combining their love of cycling with an income.
Bikeshops and manufacturers need to get this 3d printing thing dialled.
Imagine wandering in and being like "i need component x from manufacturer y from 2014"
They look up the CAD file or whatever and quote a price for time/materials etc. and you pop back in bit to pick up your part.
Shimples.
I don't judge whether a bike shop is good or bad by what stock it holds.
On very shaky ground I believe. This is all hearsay as I'd never darken his door, but his better employee has left and there is no stock of even the most basic consumables in his store. Allegedly.Speaking of cra* LBS, is Dave Hind still trading ?
Sorry to hear of your woes OP, I hope you get a suitable new lease.
firstly and foremost, me saying a good bike shop will stay open, was not meant to be a insult to anyone. just good common sense.
Surely you cannot be that stupid? To come on a thread read the first post, type what you said and then get upset when someone rises to your rancid bait.
To be fair, both Madison and Fisher offer free next day delivery on Shimano and Sram now.
The feeling I got from the early trade shows this year is that distributers are keen to try and support LBS/IBD's whether by margin support or exclusive lines. I think there is a genuine concern about a few massive outlets dictating terms to suppliers, a tail wagging the dog scenario, and I think the only way they can avoid that is by actively driving trade to the independents.
That's not to say it's not tough out there at the moment. It is. VERY.
I would echo what everyone else has said - sales fell flat last year, the shops that are experiencing massive growth are the exception rather than the rule. I would say that the extra revenue from the "cycling boom" tends to head to Germany via das internet.
/Ramble
Good luck OP and enjoy the riding
Only analogy I have is local wine merchant. He is very honest with what he stocks and doesn't stock. So he will be clear, "I don't stock XYZ because Majestic buy that in bulk and sell below my cost. However, I have sourced a similar wine from a smaller vineyard that is better IMO etc." He also targets exclusive and clever deals eg buying wines from just outside the boundaries of a particular appellation and selling those as excellent deals. So identifying the correct market segment and products is key.
Re Ton's points - I used to try to use my local book shop but in the end was fed up with no stock and having to wait. Compare this with Amazon and "look inside", 24 hour delivery or immediate delivery to kindle. Sorry it becomes a no-brainer. Yes the book shop closed but it simply didn't fill the need. The world moves on...
Local pub constantly changes hands and is now closing due to demands from freeholder. Kills the owners' cash flow every time.
Having said that - my LBSs including Jambas favourite still get my custom. Being a mechanical numpty I value their experience and advice.
but there are plenty of bike shops that are booming business wise, so surely some of them are doing something right?
Maybe. Or maybe they have landlords who don't raise the rent massively.
I have no idea about running a normal LBS. My general feeling is if your competition is CRC and Wiggle, you've already lost - even trying to compete with them on price and stock availability is a waste of time and money.
And, I say it a lot, but STW users aren't the best target market for the LBS.
TBH most people who are remotely interested in cycling as a sport/hobby rather than a mode of transport generally aren't LBS customers.
And what's that coming over the hill?
Wiggle/CRC will have so much purchasing power I can see them opening a few Megastores. They will kill the competition with 'click and collect' and a massive stock range.
Glad I don't own an LBS
Marko
Sheffield has a lot of bike shops, 2 smaller ones have recently closed down, one was ok but started to drop in quality, the other was frankly rubbish.
I've never had good service at two of the existing larger shops but they seem to be doing just fine.
I have been to Crosstrax and didn't rate their customer service so just never went back.
In my view, when there is so much choice around you have to be good or big enough that being rubbish doesn't matter.
TBH most people who are remotely interested in cycling as a sport/hobby rather than a mode of transport generally aren't LBS customers.
STW being an internet forum means selection bias. Having recently joined a flesh and blood road club I'd disagree. 300 members, predominantly newbies as it's benefited from the boom, but even the long-term, A-ride, middle-aged enthusiasts seem to rely on the LBS for all their work and a lot of their purchases, and those of us that shop online and self-spanner are a minority. One guy just totalled up his spend this year in his favoured shop.... £14,000 😯
Open a LBS at a trail venue.
-Not high-street rent
-Offer bike hire / demos
-On the spot servicing, fixing, trying out new stuff
-Fitting of parts customers order online
-Guiding, coaching, fitness, skills
-Target the cash rich/time poor customers
Offer value added as a result of your experience, expertise and the fact you cant buy a service online.
The internet has changed our way of life and sport.
I joined a road club recently, mostly made up of newcomers to cycling, they get all their servicing done at the bike shop. Facebook posts asking how to change brake cables get answered with 'take it to the shop, far too difficult'.
Contrast this with 90% of my MTB mates, build their own wheels, service forks, bleed brakes. I don't think I've ever taken a bike to a bike shop in 25yrs of riding.
Us MTB guys are awful customers, no interest in any perceived 'added value', standard workaday kit, Shimano XT, Easton, Rock Shox, order by price, fit it yourself and ride on.
I think the biggest expense in the year is race entries.
Just so I have the model clear in my head......Shimano sell directly to CRC for £X. Shimano also sell to the distributor, Madison for example, for £X. Madison then sell to the bike shops for £X + a bit and then the bike shops sell to us for £X + a bit + a bit more. By the time you've gone through the process you end up with a c.30% mark up on £X.
I joined a road club recently, mostly made up of newcomers to cycling, they get all their servicing done at the bike shop. Facebook posts asking how to change brake cables get answered with 'take it to the shop, far too difficult'.
Everything needs doing far less frequently so can't be bothered learn possibly one of the main reasons there I suspect.
The newbie things does skew things quite a bit i suppose, i've been quite lucky (in a sense) that i've been out of the UK for a loooong time, and cycling here hasn't taken off [i]quite[/i] as thoroughly as it has in the UK.
Gotama - Member
Just so I have the model clear in my head......Shimano sell directly to CRC for £X. Shimano also sell to the distributor, Madison for example, for £X. Madison then sell to the bike shops for £X + a bit and then the bike shops sell to us for £X + a bit + a bit more. By the time you've gone through the process you end up with a c.30% mark up on £X.
I thought CRC's stock was from bike manufacturers. Bike company buys lots of parts (more than they need) from Shimano, so price per unit is low and then sell on excess to CRC, etc, making some money from there as well.
[quote="Gotama"]Shimano sell directly to CRC for £XNot quite. CRC buy from anyone.
They buy OEM kit (when a manufacturer has misjudged how many XT rear mechs they need, or has moved onto next years XT rear mech)
They buy from eurozone suppliers (paying a lower/different rate of tax).
Then they mix it up with stuff they've bought from shimano and sell it all.
Sort of.
CRC/through Hotlines [i]are[/i] a manufacturer - Ragley etc. That means they can buy all their supply at OEM prices, there's no need for them to be buying it off anyone else.
Open a LBS at a [s]trail venue[/s] swimming pool.-Not high-street rent
-Offer bike hire / demos
-On the spot servicing, fixing, trying out new stuff
-Fitting of parts customers order online
-Guiding, coaching, fitness, skills
-Target the cash rich/time poor customers (AKA triathletes)Offer value added as a result of your experience, expertise and the fact you cant buy a service online.
The internet has changed our way of life and sport.
FTFY 🙂
That would make washing the bikes easier.
I see Leisure Lakes are opening a shop at that new bikepark Flyup 417
I couldnt say with any actual basis of fact, but I would suspect that the big guys find markets where the supply is competitive (due to currency/local pricing based on income etc.) and simply walk up to the wholesaler and and offer to buy a massive chunk of kit at very thin margins, then import that into the UK for distribution. OE kit does make it into the supply chain (Alltricks selling Pike RCs for example) but its not easy to deal with as it has no packaging etc., and Ive never personally got any OE kit from anyone except a set of forks from Germany many moons ago.
I think some people here are being a bit hard on LBS's (!!) in general. There must be loads of reasons why 1 LBS does well and another fails - some luck some good/poor management. I used to live in a village in Yorkshire which had no right to have an LBS but had quite a good one as the village had a really good road cycling club which attracted members from the surrounding villages and so provided a ready line of custom for the LBS. Small things like the size/success of a local bike club can have a dramatic impact on the viability of some shops.
It must be hard though for an LBS now. My last 2 bikes were both an auction purchase (from a bankrupt store) and an internet purchase. the price saving was too big to turn down!