[Closed] LBS closing

Sad times fella..

Best wishes Sancho

Sorry to hear that dude I know what you mean it's hard as an lbs

Sadly I suspect it won't be the last........bad times indeed.

Bike shops, use 'em or lose 'em. Good luck wherever the trade winds take you Sancho.

sad times if a good local shop can't stay in business. we all buy from the big online retailers for parts for cost reasons, but a good LBS brings so much more to the equation - advice, support, community. sad to see another one go. one of my biggest lbs's is none of these things (snearing, arsey, expensive and poor quality worksop repairs) - who shall remain nameless- i won't shed a tear when they go to the wall.

only popped into your place a couple of times and was an enjoyable experience on both ocassions. sorry to hear your hard work hasn't panned out as you hoped. but as you say, at least your on your bike more. onwards & upwards

Capitalism does not have enough controls the little man has not got a hope.

good luck.

@Sancho

good luck with your future!

my friends at Bella Velo (Surbiton) closed their shop end of last year, after trading less than 1 year. It's getting really tough out there for the LBS

Expect to see a number of LBS close as the bike industry is going through a somewhat brutual transition at the moment, perhaps LBS owners don't actually want to run a yoga/coffee/training "hub" but just want to sell good bikes to good people!

Very sad but its not just the on-line retailers to blame people are just not buying bikes anymore and the bikes sold these days are road and once you sell them you never see most of them back again with MTBing bikes people wore more things out and seem to buy more parts it doesn't help in an industry where you see the price in October and by May next year its been slashed weird industry.

people are just not buying bikes anymore and the bikes sold these days are road

Its not a sauce just from looking around yes you are right a lot more people are cycling than 10 years ago but there are a lot more cycle shops now than there was and there is not another buyers to go round bike sales in 2015 were the lowest for 5 years.You ask most shops these days they sell 5 to 10 road bikes/cyclo-cross bikes to 1 MTbike.I know from the places I go off-road I see far less people than I did 10 years ago but more on the road.

A wide range of industry sources claim that sales between early summer and end of 2015 were very poor, suppliers over ordered stock based on brisk trade in the first month's of 2015, now a glut of stock on sale dumped into market.

Oversupply with too many shops selling similar products to same customers(enthusiasts). Road bike market flattening out, some activities in MTB market but not enough to offset decline in road. Customers making groupset or wheel upgrade (purchased online on price) rather than swapping carbon fibre bike

Industry going through 'correction' with convergence of circumstances coupled with acceleration of Internet retail beyond most retail analysts projections.

Considering the bulk of turnover in a bike shop comes from selling bikes, its going to be interesting to see if the proposed new model of coffee/service/fitness actually provides any proper revenue

good bike shops stay open, and also get more trade with their good reputation. nuff said.

good bike shops stay open, and also get more trade with their good reputation. nuff said.

Bit harsh. It's a tough business to make money / survive in and it's not always about being "good".

I was in chatting to my LBS the other day and he was backing up what Esher was saying above. He's very service focused with some selected retail and rentals on the side. He was just back from the industry shows and was amazed at all the new stuff being launched into a crowded market. Companies launching new product lines in helmets, back packs, gravel bikes, shoes and what not when they've never done those products before. He was predicting plenty stuff being dumped on sale later in the year. Not necessarily bad for him because of his business model but could be bad for other shops that need those sorts of sales.

That's the problem good bike shops are closing they cant make enough money these days.

Capitalism does not have enough controls the little man has not got a hope.

Some of todays big guys started as little guys.

Businesses who (offshore) don't pay tax can easily bankrupt the bricks and mortar competition.

I work in the bike industry have done for the last 9 years, from small shops to big shops and mechanic-ing to World Cup level.
The bike shop I'm in now has a coffee shop, this doesn't make a bike shop money.
I can buy parts cheaper from CRC than on the best dealer trade prices.
Road bike sales are slowing the boom has peaked.
We are selling more mountain bikes now.
We can compete with some online prices but have to work to smaller margins.
In the workshop I try to turn work around within the same day at the moment given how busy we are. Obviously if we haven't got a part in then we get it for the next day.
Suppliers like fisher now offer free postage on SRAM parts and also the ability to send parts direct to the customers home instead of them having to come to the shop to pick it up. This has been helping sales.
Taking advantage of offers fro some suppliers on groupset a means we can compete with big shops like crc on some deals

We have started to run workshop classes which we get sales off the back of with selling basic tools and some more parts.
I am concerned for the longterm success of the bike shops only the ones that adapt will survive.

buy parts cheaper from CRC than on the best dealer trade prices

This! Whilst I was workshop manager for a small independant we found that a lot of parts were not only cheaper at crc than trade but would also be delivered quicker as well! Workshop jobs kept the place ticking over, with bike fitting and bike sales almost an add on!

good bike shops stay open, and also get more trade with their good reputation. nuff said.

Crosstrax was everything a local bike shop should be and it had fantastic reputation.

Best wishes for the future Sancho, I hope it goes well for you and all the guys working up there.

I am concerned for the longterm success of the bike shops only the ones that adapt will survive.

Thats pretty much the deal though isn't it? Adapt to survive? The online giants have wreaked their havoc in the market, but it will adjust - they always do. The Shimano US situation is a case in point of just that. Shops need to narrow the focus and develop a solid customer base more than ever. We sell direct, but are always being asked to do more (servicing etc.) from our workshop. People do still seem keen to support the originator of the product. I does amaze me though when I go to some shops and see how many bikes/lines they run. Do they think that volume of goods is the best way forward? Surely people must realise by now if all I want is choice its only 2 clicks away. When I go to a store, I want to know that the stuff I might be buying is the best I can buy in the opinion of someone who needs to convince me that I should trust their opinion. If I can get that I will buy from them, otherwise its just browsing fodder for the online discounters. When I walk through your shop door I [i]want[/i] you to sell me something. Its why I am there. Don't leave me feeling that you filled your shop up with whatever the wholesaler was selling cheapest that week - you won't get my business; I'm 99% certain I can find it 20% cheaper somewhere else.

The worst thing I see is stuff like helmets, shoes, pads etc. Stuff that has real value in being able to touch and try it. You go into a shop and it has 25 helmets from 4 manufacturers with 1 size and colour in each. At which point did that make sense ever? Even more so now people can just use your store as a showroom for the big online guys. I ride 1 helmet, I tell all my friends to buy the same one. Most now ride that helmet too - peer recommendation (which includes people who work in shops) works. It all falls apart when the shop looks like they can't even decide for themselves on what lines to carry.

If I sold helmets Its that line, plus maybe its cheaper and more expensive brethren I would carry. Thats all. Someone walks into my shop I tell them buy this one - its the best on the market. Why? I know, I use it every day. Yes I have your size, and yes I have your colour preference. I bought a lot of them too as I only bought 3 lines from one supplier, so my price is very competitive and I still make a margin. It might not be the margin I would like to make, but it justifies having the product there. Sure you could save a few more quid online, but do you really care enough to go home, search out the best deal and save £5 on a £100 helmet? Probably not. Try it on? No problems. Yes we accept Visa. Have a nice day.

That approach won't work for everyone, but I do think its time that a lot of shops started believing more in their products they sell, reducing lines, and focussing on delivering the best possible customer experience. There's a never ending supply of box shifting low margin businesses out there that will happily service the lowest common denominator of price-only buyers. You can't win that battle on the high street.

I should point out that this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just my observations of years of being a customer in shops and a couple of years at the pointy end.

Is this the Crosstrax shops in Leeds?

Yep - I remember when they were in the motorbike shop in Rodley about 12 yrs ago

Ups n downs..,good luck fella

Sad to hear. Good LBS' are a real asset to the local riding community.

That said, I virtually never use real bike shops. My last 3 bikes were bought direct / online, I have a decent well equipped home workshop, do all my own servicing and fitting of new parts. I buy 95% of my parts and kit online because it's cheap(er) and easy.

I suspect many on here are the same.

How do LBS's get money out of the likes of me?

"How do LBS's get money out of the likes of me?"
We don't AKA Gilo, but then you not really the target customer, yes I used to but a far bit on line, like you got tools and know how to use them, and as everyone on STW is top mechanics and know how to fit/fix everything, know all the latest "standards" 😉 why use a LBS!
But money rich/time poor, not the technical minded, people who want advice/help touch and feel try on are the ones LBS need to target.

Just thinking the same. I try and spend some money in lbs but it's sporadic and a fraction of what I spend in total.
Don't need any spannering. Tend to buy bargains only.
When I last visited they said that bike sales were down too.
They do mostly hybrids along with some decent road and mtb.

WOW ^^^^^^

buy parts cheaper from CRC than on the best dealer trade prices

Good luck in the future OP.

In terms of the problems with the lease, a local LBS near me shut 2-3 years ago.

I read on a local forum that the landlord had let the LBS have 2 shops for the price of 1 then, one day, decided he wanted the extra income from the second shop so told the LBS that the rent would double.

The space of one shop wasn't big enough and the owner couldn't afford the double rent so he had to close down.

Shops been empty since so don't know what the landlord actually achieved.

Just to let people know, especially people like ton, who is a total dick, we have a successful business, unfortunately we couldnt sort a new lease with the landlord so have been forced to close, so go * yourself Ton you *.

As another LBS owner, you had my sympathy right up until this post! I don't know of any existing relationship between the two of you, ton's post sounds exactly what it is... Cold, hard, emotionless and to the point, with no presupposition of any personal agenda at all. Yours reads like you've taken everything personally, and are having a meltdown and blaming everybody else for your business' failure! I hope this is not the case, 15yrs is a long time in anyone's book so I'm sure you were doing something right, so maybe have a word and ask yourself why you've reacted like that... I suspect you won't like the answer as it will explain some of the reasons for the closure of the business.

I'm with benpinnick on this. LBS' have to adapt to survive, pick your battles carefully, understand that nobody owes you a living and the price of Shimano and SRAM products online is always going to be as cheap or cheaper than you can buy them for at trade (there's no point getting hung up on something you can't change!), and throw some conviction behind the brands and products you do sell. I'm in a position where I've just had to recruit another member of staff, sales were up on last year by 55% over the previous year (which was up on the previous year by 65% so growth has slowed ever so slightly though it doesn't feel like it!), it's February and I'm close to the point of turning work away in the workshop as we've got such a backlog (Spring is going to be interesting!), yet at the same time 5 bike shops within a 20 mile radius of me have all gone to the wall inside the last 4 months...

What's my secret? Genuinely I don't think there is one. Customer's go to an LBS for one of two reasons. Firstly they haven't got the knowledge/time/skills to fix things themselves or find the cheapest prices on the Internet, and secondly there's still a good number that want to be sold things. If everybody bought on price, then every LBS across the country would have closed by now. Not everyone does, many like the service and rapport they get from a good LBS, and the knowledge that comes with the passion and involvement that a good LBS owner has for the sport. When somebody comes into my shop and asks me for a tyre recommendation, I will stand there and tell them why I think X is brilliant, how many times it's got me out of a pickle, and why I think it's better than Y for various reasons. I will always caveat that by saying "everyone has their own personal preferences", which is of course true, but it's a useful get out of jail card too, but it allows me to wax lyrical about said tyre/helmet/bike etc to the point where the customer now has confidence in your belief in the product enough that they will stick their hand in their wallet and try one for themselves.

Success is all about confidence. I could have been lying through my teeth above, telling you my shop is growing so rapidly I can hardly cope (I'm not, that's all true, but that's not the point), but as long as you believe me you're more likely to put your hand in your pocket and spend some money in my shop. The last recession was of course caused not by a lack of money, the vast majority of the public weren't affected by it at all, but by a lack of confidence in the economy, so people told themselves they needed to be a bit more careful "just in case". When people have confidence in the economy, they spend more money, they're happier, they're more productive (which generally means they make more money too, ergo it's a vicious cycle!) and everyone's a winner! Except the media and anyone that stands to make money out of a depression that is (stop reading the tabloids and listening to news headlines everyday, it's liberating!)...

I should add there's also a small part about picking the right products at the right prices and making sure they're available too, making sure your standard of work in the workshop is up to scratch, and that it doesn't hurt to build a bit of a community too. But largely, success sells, earn the confidence of your customers and they'll spread the good word about your business to all their mates, and soon enough, it's February and you can't keep up with demand and the prospect of a bigger premises is looking like a reality sooner rather than later!

I suspect (and said as much on 2016 predictions thread) that the real growth area for any LBS at the moment is going to be E-bikes (especially in the £1-2K bracket)

The first shop in any area, particularly a big town, to really take the plunge, cast aside yesterdays customers and focus on tomorrows (even potentially downsizing range and premises in the process) will build a reputation and do well out of it - especially regards specialist servicing of motors, batteries etc, which will remain well out of the realms of the home mechanic.

Mboy.
Ton has an issue with Mr
And no I am not blaming anyone for the shop closing
We couldn't agree a new lease and the landlord did a 180 on discussions we had been having
To n's comment is just typical of him as he feels we are a bad shop because he doesn't like me.

We are successful and hugely respected

We are looking for new premises and working out a way to continue.

We have done a huge amount for the local cycling community over the years
And I don't know why I am bothering to even type this

I will get on with what I love doing
And keep doing it well

I agree with Sancho - the number of good viable businesses (bike and non-bike) I know that have closed or come close because a landlord suddenly got greedy you wouldn't believe. Imagine your mortgage suddenly doubled - would that be your fault?

Good luck, Sancho.

Sancho, good luck in what ever you do next. Without my LBS most of the local trails wouldn't exist and I wouldn't have got half the fun out of mtb-ing that I have. I would have missed out on their advice and their skills. Sounds like your shop was much the same. Best wishes.

As I have posted before its time for a substantial (10-15%) tax on all online sales to cover the costs of loss of employment and loss of tax revenues (due to offshore EU based sellers). We also need a major support for small business, a move towards large scale zero hour contract based employers is very negative for the country

It's tricky to know what to do for the best. I bought some pedals recently. They were 40% cheaper online than my LBS.

I buy from them as often as I can, but savings like that are hard to pass up.

I don't mind haggling for a new bike, and have been happy with the three I've bought from them over the last few years, but I don't want to haggle over cheaper parts.

What I won't do is try clothing on and then buy it online. I'll buy from my LBS if they stock what I want.

Good luck OP. It's sad to hear that your small and local business will be lost to you, your team and your customers.

All the best for the future.

The irony is that below this thread are adverts for cheap forks from crc!

I have bought a bike from lbs in the past at a decent price. I often buy things like tools, clothing, helmets etc from lbs where I want those items. Sometimes the brands or stock aren't there so shopping around online is the only option.

I try and support local businesses as much as possible and don't generally mind paying a bit extra as I know it going into the local economy which I will benefit from. When it comes to saving a couple hundred quid on a frame or forks etc, I cannot justify supporting local business on that basis. They just cannot compete on high volume high end branded stuff online.

It might be a generalisation but depending on the location of the lbs, high Street or near trails/trail centres etc, a realistic range of stock/services should be considered.

I don't want to see my lbs go, but when I see a £5000 carbon enduro weapon in the window, in one of the flattest parts of the country with hardly any off road trails around, I cannot help thinking they are digging themselves a bigger hole.

buy parts cheaper from CRC than on the best dealer trade prices

I really don't get this approach at all. My LBS says he can't buy a groupset for anywhere near the price that CRC are selling them at. Surely if you're a distributor then you don't want to end up with a couple of big retailers being the only people selling your stuff? So why screw the little guys?

It reminds me of the Pubco's. The breweries who milk their own landlords, who run their own tied pubs, by screwing them on the beer they sell them, but then sell cheap to the supermarkets, who then further undermine their own pubs

Obviously I'm not an economist but it just seems like a suicidal business model

Sancho - My LBS has just moved premises, having been effectively turfed out by his landlord. I think he thought long and hard about carrying on, but now reckons it was a good move. I'm an illustrator, and from next week he'll have a wall with all my framed, cycling related prints on, that he'll be selling and taking a commission. Hows that for diversifying? 😀

All the best for the future fella!

Sad to hear, to the Op, best of luck in finding a new place, hope you get back to it soon.

Agree with ben and mboy - spot on chaps.

By the way mboy what's your shop? location?

support your lbs but only if they produce a good service, some I've found in the past are stuck in the 80's

Mboy.
Ton has an issue with Mr
And no I am not blaming anyone for the shop closing
We couldn't agree a new lease and the landlord did a 180 on discussions we had been having
To n's comment is just typical of him as he feels we are a bad shop because he doesn't like me.
We are successful and hugely respected
We are looking for new premises and working out a way to continue.
We have done a huge amount for the local cycling community over the years
And I don't know why I am bothering to even type this
I will get on with what I love doing
And keep doing it well

Ok sorry to hear that. Your previous post doesn't read well though if you don't know the history!

I'm dreading the greedy landlord thing... It's rife everywhere. Shop round the corner from mine would be perfect to expand into, but the rent is ridiculous (as in almost twice what I think it's realistically worth compared to what I'm paying now). And...? Well it's been sat there, unused for almost 3 years now! But they won't budge on the rent! Absolutely astounds me to be quite honest... But then I'm not an arrogant multi millionaire that's inherited a big investment portfolio, so what do I know?

Fingers crossed for you. Someone out there will value your worth to the community and offer you a mutually beneficial lease on a property I'm sure...

binners - Member
buy parts cheaper from CRC than on the best dealer trade prices
I really don't get this approach at all. My LBS says he can't buy a groupset for anywhere near the price that CRC are selling them at. Surely if you're a distributor then you don't want to end up with a couple of big retailers being the only people selling your stuff? So why screw the little guys?

Endura have been castigated on here for doing the sort of price control you are suggesting.

The unit my LBS is in is up for rent 🙁 !
I've heard nothing from them though. They must be keeping it on the down low for now. I hope the can work something out. They are fantastic guys and run one of the local riding clubs out of passion.

The huge lease cost makes me wonder how sustainable it is though. We are looking at an annual lease in six figures. They never seem really busy and don't have an online site. I wonder where the majority of their revenue comes from?

Perhaps STW could do one of their interviews with SRAM/shimano Madison/Fishers as to the state of pricing and the huge discrepancies in the market.

While this case looks like there's external factors (and you have my genuine sympathies), Benpinnick nails it saying that change is what's needed for a modern small business to survive in a new economy.

It's not just bike shops - the same market realignment happened in the US real estate sector in 2013, and the same principles of identifying a niche, pushing hard and dominating that market sector apply.

Data that I have seen shows a sales slowdown in the latter quarter of 2015, compounded by oversupply and bad planning (at retailer and distributor level) which led to too much stock, expanded premises, overhiring in a peak period and then the resultant cashflow loading when the market started to contract.

Also factor in consumer expectation around "sale" periods and the trend to hold off and wait for offers around Jan and it's easy to see how many came unstuck.

The interesting thing is that while the road market appears to be going into plateau, MTB is now on a growth phase with really strong intent to purchase (at all points from £500 right up to £2k+) on bikes and P&A.

The trick now is for retailers to build a more effective model of mixed revenue streams - service, refined and narrowed product offering, better sales training for staff to direct customers to the products you sell (and you shouldn't sell anything you don't believe in and evangelise about anyway, so this isn't a "hard sell" proposition), use of the workshop/retail space to host evenings for women/beginners/aspiring racers and showcasing/selling your skills. Capture data at all these events and market to them. Build a social media presence.

It's a very interesting time for retail based businesses right now - contrary to the doom and gloom that some would have you believe, there IS money out there and also lots of opportunity - but to survive, you have to adapt.