[Closed] Is my bike too long for me?

Also, don't take advice from people who use 70mm stems on their road bikes.

Here's mine - more drop and longer reach (120mm stem on a 56cm TT) despite being 2" shorter, but then I get a lot more hip angle than you. Hence it's wrong to be prescriptive about fit based simply on body dimensions - though in theory I should have more weight on my hands than you, but then you just need to stick it in a high enough gear to take the load with your legs rather than your arms 😉

[IMG] [/IMG]

I don't have my bars or hoods rotated back as far as some are suggesting, but still the flat transition between bars and hoods. Though as suggested I think you mainly need to work on bending your arms a bit and getting a bit more hip angle for a better position on that bike.

As per aracers bike above, it looks right, so it probably is. If it looks wrong (70mm stem for example) then it probably is.

agree with DavidTaylforth - also try rotating your hands ever-so-slightly so that your thumbs are at the top, this will encourage you to relax your shoulders and bend at the elbows.

So much to learn! Somewhat naively, it would seem, I thought that having the bar, stem and saddle in the right place would automatically just 'put' you in the right riding position.

Given the diversity of opinions, a bike fit, at around £100 may be cheaper than changing components....

I thought they were about £250+?

I would not bother with a bike fit, although it seems like it's what everyone prescribes nowadays.

You're right, a good bike fit is more like £200.

A bike fitter will probably ask you of your discomforts, and then change the bike to remedy them. Hence, you'll end up with an inline seatpost, a dead short stem, and probably a mountain of spacers under it. THis is fine if all you want to do is potter round nodding your head and admiring the countryside.

Road bikes are best when they're ridden properly though. Look at this guy's position on the bike, and his bike setup. It looks just right. Worth practicing for a bit, to see if you can get somewhere close.

[img] [/img]

Also, don't take advice from people who use 70mm stems on their road bikes

Personally I would keep the stem but try a more modern bar with a shorter reach, flat transition into the hoods and a sharper sweep back on the drops. This effectively brings the hoods/drops closer towards you which is better than shortening the stem.

a bike fit is not a bike fit though.

depends which school they paid to be trained at....

a mate of mine did a course to be a bike fitter....told me my bike was all wrong with its narrow bars 130mm stem, short cranks and tilted down seat..... only its been morphed into that over 10 years of riding with small changes.

ITs quite agressive but its comfy and fast - But no bike fitter would ever dare suggest it .....

relliott6879 - Member
I thought they were about £250+?

I had a Spesh BG one in LBS and it was a lot less. Found it very useful and not at all negative as per some suggestions. I guess it depends on the skills and training of the person you get

There's some lines on these pictures; it might explain it a bit better. I know very little about the human anatomy, but I think the lines do the job to show you where you're going wrong.

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[img] [/img]

You're sat upright by the way, mr panache below is sat how you should sit on a road bike.

You also can't blame a bike fitter for putting on a daft length stem to try and remedy issues in the short term for someone who bought the geometry/ size frame (don't think this is the OP's issue at all)

A picture (or, in this case, two!) paints a thousand words, thanks. It seems the main thing I need to do is relax my arms at the elbow to drop my whole torso down?

As alluded to by others upthread, I come from an MTB school of thinking, where extending your fingers should see the controls fall naturally under just under them with your arms, hands and fingers in one straight line. My thanks to you (and everyone else) for taking the time to educate rather than a flame a newbie.

It seems the main thing I need to do is relax my arms at the elbow to drop my whole torso down?

No, I don't think so. I don't think you'll be able to relax your arms; they look stretched, as if you're reaching for the bars. You shouldn't reach for the bars, you should do what t'other laddo is doing; let your hands fall onto them.

The problem is the vertical line in your picture, it needs to be rotated forwarded like laddos. Sit on your bike, leave your feet off the pedals and just roll forwards; you'll end up not sitting on your sitt bones.

[quote=relliott6879 ]A picture (or, in this case, two!) paints a thousand words, thanks. It seems the main thing I need to do is relax my arms at the elbow to drop my whole torso down?

Yes and no, chicken and egg. Because what you need to do is sit a bit less upright by increasing your hip angle. Bending your arms a bit is a good way to achieve this - though I'm sure the first thing which struck most of us looking at your pic was the straight arms.

I certainly do think this is an ideal you should consider aiming for - however I'll throw in a note of caution. We're talking about a fairly* aggressive roadie position, one which many people aren't comfortable achieving and a lot of people are happy sitting rather more upright than Mr Panache (some of them have medical reasons they can't achieve that). It should still be possible to have a comfortable hand position even with a more upright position - and to some extent you did identify correctly that for your current hip angle your bike is too long, which is where the 70mm stems come in. It's not something I'd want to encourage, but nor would I want you miserable if you really can't manage a more aggressive hip angle.

* it's relative - I have a flatter back than Mr Panache, and I'm probably not far off his position on a MTB.

one which many people aren't comfortable achieving and a lot of people are happy sitting rather more upright than Mr Panache

Why are some people not comfortable achieving that position? If you look in the pro peloton; there's quite a few riders who have awkward looking positions and are sat quite upright like the OP. What gives?

Seat looks too far forward to me, do the plumb bob test. Having the seat further back will allow your hips to swivel forward and give a better back position. It will stop you hunching up over the bars which gives pain to hands and shoulders, neck and back. As you get lower your arms can relax and it actually takes the weight off. (opposite to what you'd think)

I'm no expert, but have been through the same process with my bike.

It seems as if there are a lot of 'bikefit gurus' out to butter up us Mamils (as that is where the sales are) and tell us to raise it all up to make it comfortable when really it just scrunches us up, places more weight on the sit bones, makes your arms lock out to hold yourself away from the bars instead of relying on the natural resistance in your core which easily takes the weight off your hands when leaning in.

I'm a similar height and build to you and a I'm on a 56 Supersix Evo.

£200 for advice about sitting properly on a bike is ridiculous and shouldn't be encouraged. Good luck

I think you'll find that swapping the bike for an MTB will solve the problem.

The reach is too long, partly due to the shape of shifters (they add a cm to the reach compared with higher end versions). Swap to a 100 mm stem (or even a 90) and rotate the bars slightly so the drops are not parallel to the road (about 15 degrees works well for riders who are less flexible. You should more some bend in your elbows when on the hoods. You should also be able to use the drops, and bringing them closer will help a lot.

I'm 179 cm and ride a 54 CAAD8 with a 110 mm stem.

A shorter stem will hunch the OP over even more.

Also, total hight and frame size/ stem length is a massive generalisation.
Everyone has different leg and torso length - it also doesn't take into account the reach of the bars.
Some bars could have 30mm longer reach than others, totally negating the stem length measurement.

IMHO, you've moved the bars. Give it a few rides and see how you go.

was putting off posting this but as above... why in these kinds of thread do people focus on stem length, but often fail to mention bar reach?

Often seen when mentioning their own setup, ie: "I ride a 54cm frame with 100mm stem"

Whoop dee-doo, but is that with a 75mm reach set of compacts? 85mm mid compacts, old 100mm+ reach classic bars?

Ther is **so much** variation in bar shape out there (touched on a bit in this thread already), and that's even before the changes you can make to effective reach with bar rotation and hood positioning, but it just strikes me as odd that people seem to focus on the TT length and stem length without looking at the whole picture.

Throw in the differences between standard brake levers, vs 90s STI/Ergos, vs 00's, vs modern STI/Ergos and you need to look at more than just the baseline stem length.

I get why people mention it but it's like the head angle in MTB phenomenon, getting fixated on one thing and not looking at the bigger picture of fit and geometry.

OP - There's a lot of useful info in this thread, and a lot of nonsense too, and some that might be useful to you or might not depending on personal factors.

The only useful info I'd want to give you at this point (ie: over the internet and based on a couple of static pics) is to lower your saddle, probably move it back a bit and tilt your bars back a bit, BUT I think you should do some research and reading on bike fit yourself, various sources is best as some fitters are very pro 'their way' of doing things, but have an open mind and be prepared to experiment and tailor advice for you too, as only you know how flexible you are and how comfortable you are, and also be prepared for needing to change your fit as you adapt, what works for you now, might not work for you in 3-6 months. If you have a local club then you may be able to get some help or advice there too, but be prepared to filter it just as much as on here!

Professional advice and fitting is an option if you find you can't get comfy over a period of a few months, but there are some fitters who are terrible and will just try and force you into their version of how you *should* ride a bike using preset formulas, and others who will just try and make you feel super-comfy (at the detriment of performance and not necessarily an optimal fit) so you feel like you got a result, so it's worth doing your research on fitters too!

why in these kinds of thread do people focus on stem length, but often fail to mention bar reach

I mentioned it as the second replier to the thread 😀

I did say a few people had, but it always seems to be drowned out and ignored!

"was putting off posting this but as above... why in these kinds of thread do people focus on stem length, but often fail to mention bar reach?"

I assume its a mountain biker thing...... some of the folk on here would have you riding a 45mm stem with road bars too wide to fit down some roads if they had them set up anything like some of the cool MTBS i see photos of on here.

why in these kinds of thread do people focus on stem length, but often fail to mention bar reach

Pretty much all bikes these days are equipped with compact bars which tend to have a reach of 75mm to 85mm (obviously not in the OPs case though).

If you really want to split hairs; quoted stem length is often not what it should be. I've got a 140mm stem that measures closer to 150mm in length, and one from a different brand that measures less than 140mm.

I did say a few people had, but it always seems to be drowned out and ignored!

I thought you were drowning me out and ignoring me! 😉 😀

Also, if you can't reach the hoods comfortably then you'll never get on the drops. I still think the bars are at least half the problem, especially for the wrists.

The other half is trying to rotate the pelvis forwards where a slightly tilted saddle could also help

Too many variables but at least there are some suggestions in this thread of what to look at further and what to roughly aim for.

i dont know what cannondale are like but giant used to only spec compact bars on their womans and XS / small mens bikes

i dont know what cannondale are like but giant used to only spec compact bars on their womans and XS / small mens bikes

Yeh, my mate used to have a 2007 ( i think) Giante TCR in XL that had bars similar in shape to the OPs.

From what I can tell, it's all changed in the last couple of years and everything seems to come with compacts.

Cannondale have compacts on all high end bikes and "shallow traditional bend" (basically a compact with a weird shape) on the lower end bikes

Pretty much all bikes these days are equipped with compact bars which tend to have a reach of 75mm to 85mm (obviously not in the OPs case though).

Exactly my point, they [i]generally [/i]do these days, but as in the OPs case he's fitted some different bars, and anyone with a 2nd hand bike might not have the OE fit bars, and unless you specifically mention it people will naturally make assumptions, either about what they expect to be fitted, or comparing to the kind of bars they have, or worse, not realising that bar reach can differ! Had the OP not posted an image we wouldn't have known, and often fit advice gets thrown out there while making assumptions and without all the info.

If you really want to split hairs; quoted stem length is often not what it should be. I've got a 140mm stem that measures closer to 150mm in length, and one from a different brand that measures less than 140mm

ooooh, I LOVE splitting hairs! can we also discuss how effective reach changes with stem angle, and height on the steerer due to head angle and how a 100mm stem with a massive load of spacers can be easily equal to 90mm stem or less lower down in terms of purely horizontal reach 😀

I guess I'm just labouring the point that bike fit is both very simple and very complicated at the same time and too often we get fixated on one particular aspect and ignore the whole.

Often seen when mentioning their own setup, ie: "I ride a 54cm frame with 100mm stem"

Fair point, except I have the same bike in the same spec with almost the same geometry, just one size down and longer stem. I'm also the same height. But proportions may not be similar. It is, however obvious from the first picture that for the hip angle, more elbow bend is needed and that the drops are not really going to see much use.

Throw in the differences between standard brake levers, vs 90s STI/Ergos, vs 00's, vs modern STI/Ergos and you need to look at more than just the baseline stem length.

This is a big one, as I mentioned. 10-speed Tiagra is the last of the old-school external cabled shifters - and very nice they are too, having just shake-down ridden my son's ultegra 6600 Defy I built last night. They add extra reach on the hoods and my comment on needing a shorter stem was based on this.

A local club will help with advice, most have coaches. If you are relatively local to Windsor, I'm happy to provide a free fitting and keep a wide range of stems and spacers. Email in profile.

Does this look more like it?

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The stem is definitely a 110mm, by the way (assuming I'm measuring between the correct points?).

[IMG] [/IMG]

Yes, maybe a little much. I get riders to sit on the saddle, hold the [u]drops[/u] and rotate until comfortable - then lock the stem. Then I move the shifters down a little to give a level top. Some people don't do this step.

This all assumes the saddle is in the correct position. A rough guide is knee over pedal at 90 degrees. A better guide is pedal on a turbo with no hands whilst leaning forwards to see how much weight is taken through the legs.

I think a shorter stem to bring the bars closer will give you more access to the drops. An elbow angle of about 150 degrees for your hip angle should be about right.

The finished article:

[IMG] [/IMG]

I can't go out and test it because it's pitch black and persisting it down.

Bars need to be rotated down and when you've done that you'll probably find the hoods should come towards you a touch IMO. As it stands the hoods will be uncomfortable and drops pretty much unusable. As a first step rotate the bars so the brake lever is perpendicular to the ground. It probably won't be perfect as above but it should feel better than now.

You clearly have no issue with adjusting stuff and wrapping bar tape etc, so do yourself a favour and get some of these http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBPX7075CL/planet-x-road-bar-strada-compact-lite-7050

As others have said You are on a hiding to nothing with those bars imho, something with a shorter reach will allow you to keep a sensible stem length and use all hand positions. I use these which might be a bit pricy for you but there's plenty of 'modern' bars out there cheaper like the planet-x above and various FSA 'wing bars' . The Zipps have a specifically short reach
[url= http://www.zipp.com/bars/service-course-sl-70---/ ]http://www.zipp.com/bars/service-course-sl-70---/[/url]

Those bars would drive me insane personally. It is nothing to do with the way they are positioned, they are not designed to be positioned with the hoods levelled off. I would try a more modern compact bar on there. Look at Don's bike on page 1....they are tiny in comparison. It's easy to think a bar is a bar....but it's not.

That's my personal preference of course. I just can't get it straight in my mind how anything can be comfortable angled down like that. Surely it's a relic of the past that will be slowly forgotten?

Check there's not a seam in your gloves along the web of the hand too. I'm a MTB man who got into road riding for the first time last year, you spend a lot of time with that bit of your hand doing the work, MTB gloves might have a seam there that's causing irritation.

Also, those bars look dreadfully uncomfortable to me, neither one thing nor another.

[b][u]relliott6879[/u][/b] - [u]Member[/u]

...or have I unwittingly bought a known 'lemon' in the world of road bike bars?

T'would appear that I have. Fed up now.

I don't think you have a lemon. Small changes can make quite a difference to comfort. Here's one I prepared earlier - last night in fact and set up for [s]me[/s] Teen2. Shifters are Ultegra 6600, so basically the same shape as your Tiagra. Bar is not dissimilar in shape (but more like the Planet X linked above). Side on profile is a little less conventional than the classic slammed stem, horizontal drops, but it is very comfortable (and I mean two hour road race on the drops comfortable for this non-flexy soon-to-be-senior-vet). Note the vertical brake levers - you must be able to reach them easily from the drops, that sets the position of the hoods, and then stem length sets the reach.

[img] ?oh=2e4a774501671dcf2b333b8ff30bf6b0&oe=568F303B[/img]

You would not be the first rider to move to a 90 mm stem on a 56 frame. I had a rider at work who just could not get comfortable on a 110, and when the bars were moved closer, it was a revelation (and he'd ridden the Maratona before the switch) . The length of the shifter hoods means that handling will not be impacted.

Loving the wailing and gnashing of teeth my 70mm stem has caused the purists....f@$k,'em....the bike was fine when new two years ago with a 110mm stem but things change, I'm older, I'm not as flexible....and I refuse to use a ridiculous stack of spacers under the stem....so I just shortened the cockpit instead, much better, more miles on the bike and if I bend my elbows I can still get as low as I used to.

May post a pic when I get home just to really upset people!