[Closed] I dont 'get' drop bars.. help?

Why don't they feel comfortable? Too low, too far away, hand position?

Too far away and too low. Bring them nearer and then you’ll use them. I like at least 25% of my time on the drops.

They're not about all out comfort, albeit you have a few different option on where to hold the bars, IMO it's all about being more aero and getting more weight over the front wheel.

How flexible are you ? if you can comfortably touch your toes you should be able to ride comfortably on the drops. What they for ? block head winds and descending (oh and sprinting for those that race).

Why do people use them? Aerodynamics and more hand positions. The drops will typically be lower than you'd have flat bars and make it easier to get in an aero position. Then you can switch to the tops or hoods for comfort or climbing.

Reason for having them on gravel bikes is a trade off between road and off road speed. They can still give reasonable control off-road even if most of us would still prefer flats on a dedicated MTB. I've flip flopped on this as I really liked the hand position when I first tried drops, it feels very natural to me as a neutral wrist position. More recently I've found it's a lot harder to use my arms as suspension when my wrists are side on to the impacts and it was causing me forearm pain, so I've switched back to flat bars.

If I was going to have a bike for road use only I'd stick with drops though, move the bar/stem until you find a comfortable position.

Use my drops quite a bit for the aero gains. it's free speed. Also help with having a few different positions to get into to mix it up a bit on longer rides. Also feel more secure braking on higher speed descents when on the drops rather than braking from the hoods. I found getting rid of the beer gut helped with making it more comfy when on the drops. Kicking your gut with your knees with every pedal stroke makes it less comfy, getting rid of the gut and having that clearance makes it perfectly comfy.

Ditto all of the above, drop bars are about extra hand positions, if they're too low/too far away then they're pointless.

Mine are unfashionably high (for a road bike) but it means I can comfortably spend equal amounts of time on the drops and on the hoods when I'm trying to go fast, then use the flats for long slow climbs.

Plus I thought anyone would enjoy sprinting, cornering and descending on the drops, it just feels fast no matter what you're used to!

You don't have to go all mental roadie and have the bars 4feet below your saddle height and arse in the air. I'm not going to be entering the tour de france, or even the lowest of races any time soon. The heck do I need an aero position for! 😆 Tbh, I find myself tempering the speed in the road bike alot, full pelt on a road bike is terrifying, bit of wind restistance does me no harm what so ever! 😆

Set the hoods/drops up for comfort and they can be good imo. I've actually got the hoods sitting just slightly above the seat height on mine, 60mm stem. Means on the hoods it feels really controllable and comfy, and I can bounce up and down kerbs all day long. And I can actually get into the drops comfortably if I want an "aero position" or a more solid grip on the brakes..

Most roadies will probably boak at this, but it's basically like a mtbified road bike position. Feels much more natural to me.

Set the bike up to what feels good to you, not what is printed in a mag or on the tele.

I don't get them either. In fact I cannot stand them and find them unsafe compared to flat bars simply because of the difficulty braking ( yes I know you can brake from the hoods but its a weak and awkward movement compared to braking on flat bars)

My road bike has bullhorns with tri bar brakes - that allows you great braking from the same position as on the hoods on drop bars.

Yes there are aero advantages but who cares for road use? I'd rather be safe and the difference between bullhorns and drops is very little

I know two drop bar bikers who have crashed due to the braking issue

There was an interesting post on road.cc about how the drop bars and aerodynamics

https://road.cc/content/feature/264340-wind-assisted-day-boardman-performance-centre

"Riding on the hoods at 45km/h, Barney, the head of science at the Performance Centre, calculates that I’d need to put out 515W to maintain it. That’s a lot of watts. Looking at my power curve, it’s a level of effort I might reasonably sustain for about two minutes. On the drops the figure is 498W: better, but not great."

Thats at 30mph too, it'll be a lot less at the 15-20mph most people ride at.

Oh - I also believe ( but most will deny) that its a lot about fashion. Look how many euro tourers use drop bars!

Could never get on with them on the Langster and ended up swapping them for some aero/base bar/bullhorn things and felt much better. TT levers rather than bar/normal.

I think for me though it was a lack of flexibility at the time plus confidence whilst in the drops, never felt ’safe’. Ended up on the hoods or flats all the time hence it made sense to go with what I did.

I am tempted to try some drops again but I’d go with the compact drop this time I think. Tbh though. I probably just needed to preserve a bit longer.

I love drop bars.

No problem braking. Hoods or drops. Good brakes help. Shit brakes are shit brakes.

Nice - thanks guys. I assumed it was mostly areo, but the varied grip positions is a good shout too.

As it's not my bike I wont adjust anything, but I'll keep it all in mind when I get the Tarmac ready. They do feel too low (well, compared to my MTB), and I'm not super flexible. I'm not fat though (5'9 and 63kg) so it's not my beer gut! 😉

Again, many thanks!

Nice – thanks guys. I assumed it was mostly areo, but the varied grip positions is a good shout too.

Whereas flat bars have, and only require, one position as it's comfortable all the time.

TJ is right, it's all about fashion, or perhaps grashion?.... 😂

Drop bars are harder to get 'right' in my experience, there are more variables including the hood position that can make the difference between comfort and pain. Saddle to bar height, angle, distance all more critical than for a drop bar. But...
After much faffing - and some added flexibility and acclimatisation - I've now got my drop bars setup where I can comfortably ride in the low position for extended periods.

scotroutes - its still a really poor position to brake from - bad biomechanics. I did it for many years until I changed to bullhorns.

Pish

I demoed a gravel bike the other week, a Trek Checkpoint, basically a Domane with wider tyres. I only rode it on the road as I was in a group ride from the shop and all the other demos were road bikes. But, I wouldn't have been happy on it on Dales tracks, partly because of the road gearing but primarily because it was equipped with road bars. If it had had something like Woodchippers on then it would have been much more suitable.

@nobeer - ride a couple of hundred km on flat bars and you are crying out for another hand position, or three.

No fashion involved in drop bars on road bikes, been around a fair few years now....
I find them comfortable, braking is easy, as is gear changing. You get better braking from the drops than the hoods. I tend to ride in a lot of fast group rides, nearly all of the guys on that are comfortable on the drops. Not one of them do it for fashion, we all do it because its safe, fast and comfortable.
Technically the fastest position is arms draped over the bars and tucked as small as possible, but that's not safe in a fast group ride.
If you're new to it you may find it takes a while to get comfortable in the position, you may also need to get a bike fit or just tinker yourself for the correct saddle, bar position and stem length.

It's hard to get drop bars set up right and there are tons of variables to fiddle with. For me, I found I had to move the position of the shifters around the curve a bit and then rotate the bars. And experiment with long, short, high and low stems too. Don't listen to people who say 'it's not meant to be comfortable'. It is. You won't spend all day on them but they should be comfortable to use when you want them.

Oh – I also believe ( but most will deny) that its a lot about fashion. Look how many euro tourers use drop bars!

I agree TJ, although my road bike had to go because of the lack of comfort with the drops (it was cheaper to get a flat barred hybrid with discs than change bars/levers etc)
I felt like I was in exactly the right position on them but after a few miles my elbows would ache.
Can't understand why tourers have them anyway, surely you need a more upright position so you can see what your'e touring around?

scoteroutes - its in the biomechanics ie the angle of the wrist and the movements of the fingers - yes you can brake from the hoods - I did it for decades but its a poor position to get good control or feel - its not just opinion - its basic biomechanics. the angles are all wrong for good braking control

Road - Drops
Mtb - Riser bars/flat bar
Long Distance/Gravel - flared drops.

As a long time mtb'er I found drops very strange for a while, but it soon begins to feel natural. More hand positions, but for proper off road stuff the wider riser bars give better control, but if you're riding that stuff frequently you'd be better off on a mtb anyway.

But the magnitude of the gains available just from simple changes was certainly an eye-opener. By far the biggest gain is just from adopting a more aggressive position on the bike, with the saddle further forward and the elbows more bent. That drops the power I’d need to output to maintain 45km/h in the drops from 498W to 448W, a massive 10% saving. 

From further on in the RCC article. Plenty to be gained from using the drops properly. Nobody's saying anyone has to like or use drops but to say its just fashion etc is just nonsense.

It may not be optimal TJ but if they are set up correctly the brakes should be sufficient, especially given the limitation on grip due to skinny tyres. Try to remember that just because someone prefers something you don’t: It doesn’t make them wrong.

I want optimal braking at all times. It may be "sufficient" for many but its not as good as it could be thus for me its not good enough. Primary safety trumps everything else. You need the best brakes you can possibly have at all times

But that's a "riding on the hoods" problem, not a drop bar problem. I'm not sure any bar layout is going to give you both multiple hand positions and optimal braking at all times.

@nobeer – ride a couple of hundred km on flat bars and you are crying out for another hand position, or three.

Aye, cos the vast majority of folk on here do 200km+ on their MTBs and flat barred road bikes on a regular basis. 🤣

tjagain

Member
I want optimal braking at all times

tbh on a road bike you just don't need that all the time. The hood with decent discs in them are plently powerful. My arkose came with 105 hydraulics and even with the 160mm rotors there's plenty of power there.

On the mtb, I normally need 203mm rotors due to my heft. I just don't need that kinda power on road.

The hoods are perfectly fine. If I'm stopping from speed I can always just use the drops if extreme stopping power if required.

If I’m stopping from speed I can always just use the drops if extreme stopping power if required.

So you accept that braking from the hoods is not as good as from the drops?

so you are riding along fastish on the hoods and you need to emergency stop - you either lose half a second moving your hands or you have less than max braking possible ( due to feel as well as power) from the hoods.

So you crash rather than near miss as you have had less than optimal braking.

I ride with my fingers on the brake levers at all times in such a position I can get maximum braking instantly.

tbh that's just an mtb mentallity, you don't need that amount of immediate braking on a road bike all the time. The power on the hoods is more than sufficient, particularly with hydraulics.

And anyhow, on the roads, I basically never need to emergency stop. I put more stock into hazard awareness than I do braking power.

I can agree about gravel btw, anything more than easy paths, it'd be a bit mental from a braking perspective(and hands being securely on the bars without being in the drops), but if you are doing off road to any kinda technical level, just get an mtb.

I ride with my fingers on the brake levers at all times

You should try looking up and planning ahead.

I don't care what brakes youv'e got on with drops, if your'e on the hoods you can't get the leverage from the fulcrum point that you can if your'e on the drops, that's obvious!

TJ's right, It's bleedin ovbious!

Very much an MTB mentality, probably why discs are getting so popular on road bikes, MUST HAVE MOST POWER AT ALL TIMES!!!!

Once you've ridden a fast, swooping continental descent tucked into the drops, one finger on each brake lever, feeling like Valentino Rossi or Fabian Cancellara, there's no going back to flat bars with all that silly sticky outy elbow nonsense.

Nobody rides road bikes because they're safe... 🙄

Over the years I've emergency stopped on Road bikes a number of times from both the hoods and the drops, from both positions locking the wheels in this kind of situation is easy and almost inevitable whether your running calliper or disks. I'd go as far as saying you're less likely to skid from hoods, does that mean breaking from the hoods is less efficient? Yes of course it does you can't change physics (leverage), does this mean there is insufficient breaking available from the hoods? No Not something I've experienced in 30 years of riding bikes.
Descending in the drops at speed is way more stable and efficient, riding along on the flat or climbing with my hands on the tops or the hoods that's good too.

Actually i think for me its more about motorbikes wanting max braking at all times instantly available - that and spending most of my time on roads around a hilly city with blind drivers!

I have seen as I said two road bikers have crashes they could have avoided if they had max braking available instantly.

edit
Skidding is not max braking - max braking is 5% slip or therabouts. thats why you need the feel as well as the power to get into that zone.

Any distance at all beyond 5 miles or so I'm either reaching for hoods, hooks on drops or bar-ends on flats or risers

Dunno why, I seem to climb all over bars like a monkey, and fully enjoy the benefits of multi-positions/surfaces for my hands, especially whilst climbing, descending, or long-hauls (with or without head-winds)

The question of 'uprightness' has more to do with the rest of the setup/geo of the bike rather than 'drops vs flats'. For instance my (medium) Genesis Vagabond had me sitting up nearly Dutch-style on the drop tops/hoods, which I found very comfortable and natural for bimbletour and fireroads etc. My Genesis Longitude (also with a 110mm stem) with flat bars has me leaning forward and constantly searching for relief for both hands and neck. I need to set it uo differently to suit (shorter stem more rise) but even then the bars will be lower than the hoods of the Vagabond. I know which kne is the most comfortabel, for me, and it's the drop bar. This comfort would change completely if the setuo was radically different, ie top of drop bars below saddle height..

Actually i think for me its more about motorbikes wanting max braking at all times instantly available

Do you cover the brakes at all times on a motorbike? I dont, I might do in dense traffic but I ride a bicycle slower with a bigger margin for error i traffic, never crashed due to lack of brakes, not seen it either and I've done a lot of road riding solo and in groups. Its just never been an issue.

Pish

Correct

If you want the best possible braking then you shouldn’t ride anything but a fat bike. Otherwise the tyre grip available is seriously compromising your ability to stop.
Try not to see things in such black & white terms TJ

Yes always - its the way you are taught and every motorcyclist I know does this. You should be covering the brakes at all times on any bike. It simply means you can get to max braking quicker thus it increases your safety margin.

Its something I have seen many times - cyclists are not good at braking by and large!

edit - answer to AA

imnot

thats why all my bikes run sticky tyres!

enough - most of the drop bar fans on here admit braking is not as good unless you are on the drops. Why would you not want the best braking you can have available all the time?

Well I have 125,000 miles under my belt on a motorcycle, a good proportion of this as a courier. I cover the brakes when I think it is appropriate and rely on looking ahead and anticipation to decide when that is.

Yes always – its the way you are taught and every motorcyclist I know does this

Strange, not what my IAMS training said.

Why would you not want the best braking you can have available all the time?

Because you dont need to brake all the time and the less efficient braking from the hoods is still sufficient.

. Why would you not want the best braking you can have available all the time?

I want braking which is appropriate for the situation: on 25mm tyres the power I need is provided by decently set up brakes applied from the hoods. I don’t need brakes which provide more power than the tyres can cope with.

sufficient in power and feel to have a maximum stop? You must be very skilled I prefer to make my braking easy, powerful and with a lot of feel. I certainly do not want to have to move my hands to grab the brakes

Strange, not what my IAMS training said.

very strange - my advanced instructer noted I did and recommended it

Then ride in the drops - I know some people are arguing you can brake just as well on the hoods (which I disagree with) but it doesn't make drop bars a less valid setup.

decently set up brakes

So how do you set up road calipers to have more power?

tjagain
most of the drop bar fans on here admit braking is not as good unless you are on the drops.

How come you are reporting that like a Sun editor? 😆 And trying to skew it to support your position. You seem to be ignoring what most of us are saying, which is that it's entirely sufficient. You only really need the full extent of braking power on the drops when you are caning it downhill at 40/50mph.

And tbh I'll rarely go above 40 that much, so don't really need to go into the drops all that much anyhow.

Brakes are ridiculously good these days. Hence 1 finger braking and the like, brakes these days are much more about modulation than anything else... It really doesn't take much POWER!!!! 😆 to lock them up. I can easily endo/skid the road on the hoods if I want.

So the biomechanics argument went out the window about a long time ago.

No I am not ignoring what most of you are saying. Several folk agree with me that braking from the hoods is not as good which is obvious if you look at the leverage ad the biomechanics. why have power and feel than you could have - sufficient does not cut it for me. the best possible is the only thing good enough

tjagain

Member
sufficient in power and feel to have a maximum stop? You must be very skilled I prefer to make my braking easy, powerful and with a lot of feel. I certainly do not want to have to move my hands to grab the brakes

You should probably slow down a touch if you are that out of control you need to grab handfuls of the brakes and regularly perform emergency stops. Seems you are riding beyond your comfort zone and more than a touch on the reckless side! 😆

tjagain

Member
No I am not ignoring what most of you are saying. Several folk agree with me that braking from the hoods is not as good which is obvious if you look at the leverage ad the biomechanics. why have power and feel than you could have – sufficient does not cut it for me. the best possible is the only thing good enough

But I can blinking endo the road bike from the hoods, much more power do I need? Jebus TJ, it's not the 90s, brakes are alsorts of awesome these days! 😆

We've moved beyond shiny polished steel rims and cheap plasticky rubber brake blocks! 😆

Strangely I just can't get on with flat bars. I'm constantly moving around and flat bars just feel so uncomfortable. I'm really not at all flexible after breaking my back, but still couldn't envisage not riding drop bars. Don't spend vast amounts of time on the drops, but hopefully that may change with future purchases.

Biomechaniss is about how your hand and wrist work and where the best power and feel is. Nowt to do with the brakes efficiency - only the position of the lever in relation to your hand

Seosamh77, stop talking sense. Elf and safety in it.
Forget the fact that there are a lot of experienced road racers on here who do well over 10k per year, riding all over Europe, we’ve been doing it wrong all these years, should be on flat bar hybrids.
I’ll regularly ride at over 40mph using my hoods to give me sight above traffic, no problems braking. Braking on the drops is better, but hoods work fine as well.
And correctly set up brakes can be as simple as having the correct cable length to new pads and clean rims.
Do people not mountain bike downhills because it’s a bit dangerous?
I’d give myself a 6 for my mini rant, not enough swearing.

I haven't done an emergency stop for a while - but I want the best possible braking available instantly and continuously as that is the safest. Primary safety comes first second and third

don't agree with me - fine but don't make up stupid things that have nowt to do with anything being discussed.

Braking on the drops is better

so why adopt a position where you have less than the best brakes available?

Much as I canny be arsed with drop bars, braking was never an issue, even from the hoods.

tjagain

Member
Braking on the drops is better

so why adopt a position where you have less than the best brakes available?

Why adopt a position of pig ignorance? 😆

Because you don’t always need the best best available.
When I’m driving my car I have my foot on the accelerator, I move to the brakes when I need to otherwise I wouldn’t get anywhere.
When I’m on the road bike I use my experience and judgement, match the speed with the surroundings. Coming down a mountain pass at a very fast speed where cars are slowing me down, I’m confident my braking will not be a problem, I may even be on the hoods if I want line of sight over the traffic.
The only time in all my cycling that I ever wanted better braking was because of the rubbish mechanical disc brakes on an old cx bike. Had zero to do with where I put my hands, everything to do with the fiddly crappy brake system.
TJ you should ride s TT bike, then you’ll realise how good the hoods are and how easy it is to efficiently move to the drops.

nice - insults now. many posters agree with me that braking on the hoods is less than optimum including the one I quoted. so why spend most of your time in a position where you have less than optimum braking?

But then - IME most cyclist have no idea how to get the best from their brakes 😉

enough - I am not supposed to get into stupid arguements any more.

woodster - what about the unexpected? Cars that pull out etc? thats why I cover the brakes and want the best possible braking at all times. safety first

And this is definitely a stupid argument.

Do you drive everywhere at 5 mph because - safety first?

so why spend most of your time in a position where you have less than optimum braking?

Because it is more than powerful, why is that so difficult to grasp? Do you run shit brakes or something?

It's not an insult nor intended to be, just a simple observation, you don't seem to be factoring in that brakes are designed these days to work with minimal effort. (Hence 1 finger braking with your index finger, bio-mechanically that isn't the strongest force you can put through your hand in a gripped position)

Seems to be the definition of wilful/pig ignorance to me....

Do you wear a crash helmet in your car when you drive to work?
I completely get your argument, it’s a risk decision. The chances of a car pulling out are very slim but possible. I reduce the factors as much as possible. But there’s risk in everything we do.
I ride around a XC course on my gravel bike, for safety I’d be much better using my full sus. I did the SDW on a road bike with 32mm tyres, I’d have been safer on my rigid Marin + bike.
The hoods are an effective way of stopping a road bike. Even my carbon rim braking setup works perfectly. Disc brakes are better than rim brakes, but that doesn’t mean rim brakes are now unsafe. In fact they’re getting better and better.
Each to their own, I ride in a group of 60 to 100 riders mm’s away from my wheel twice a week, people making strange decisions and needing fast reactions, never worried about being on the hoods.

supose I had better 'fess up - asking in another place a couple of motorcyclist friends do not cover the brakes all the time. Hmmm. Its certainly how I was taught. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

seosamh77

and you miss my point that you also get better feel when your hand is in a better position biomechanically!

woodster - thats something I will never do - ride in a bunch!

Riding on the drops puts more weight onto the front wheel the bike will then handle better. Braking from the drops is also better, but braking from the hoods is now so terrible anyway.

If you aren’t using them, your bike is not set up properly. Remind me why bar ends were introduced and how did people reach the brakes? Jones H bars? Everyone likes to move about a bit.

After riding wet carbon rims and rim brakes, any braking is suddenly a gift. Decent discs can stop you sufficiently on drop bars from the hoods- technique also helps rather than just grabbing brake and praying. On the drops you get more power and control of direction as the whole body is in a better position for movement- hence why people sprint and descend on the drops- it’s more aero but it’s also better for handling.

After riding loads of mtb trails on m cross bike (because it’s the best fun and great training) my speed on my MTB has increased beyond recognition- it makes you appreciate the suspension, tyres and bars far more and allows you to push what you thought was the limit wayyy more. Drops taking getting used to- it’s not comfortable to start with.

Drops give more hand positions and the longer the ride the more important that is. I don't do long rides (max 2 hours) but even for those short amounts of times my hands can get numbness on flat bars. I just put up with it though as I enjoy riding flat bars more as it makes it more fun (single track, hopping over things and just generally steering)
When I run drop bars they put me in a more serious mood and I spend 80% of the time in the drops with head down which is not really why I am riding.
What is interesting is that over various hour long loops at a highish effort the drops have proved no faster than the flats (I am riding mostly gravel, all solo) so to me have not really made any difference, guessing because sadly my speed is too low to matter
Braking is not a problem on either bars as I don't use brakes.

Anyway, was this you tj? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-49275630/determined-cyclist-makes-it-through-flood-water-in-edinburgh

I have an Arkose that I commute on through London, I rarely use the drop position. Generally on the hoods all the time, find braking to be perfectly adequate there, and regularly have to do an emergency stop. I do find myself riding with 1 or 2 fingers always covering the brake, usually middle finger, but it's a very natural position on the hoods

The only time I'm on the drops is if I was off road and downhill, I find the bumps make the hoods quite difficult to grip whereas the drops mean I can brake well without having to strain to grip

I don't cover the brakes all the time on my motorbike, but I'll often have my middle finger on the brake, which I find gives me sufficient power most of the time. That works for riding in town and spirited riding on bendy roads

Shimano's new gravel orientated groupsets move the pivot point of the brake lever to improve braking from the hoods...personally I'm pretty happy braking from the hoods but welcome the improvement as only really use drops for headwinds and downhill that I'm happy I know ...in traffic generally in the top of the bars or on the hoods covering the brakes

enough – I am not supposed to get into stupid arguements any more.

Stop starting them then!

Going from bike to bike, flat bars 700 wide to road 460 narrow is strange. I do the euro style touring flat bars and one of the last headshok 26 touring mtbs with all the rack points front and rear. Every now and then I look for drop bars race style 600mm wide, last time only from States and mega expensive. Why only 460mm max wide.

I never used to use Shimano STI Road levers because I found them impossible to use from the hoods which is why I have over 20 years of Campag Ergolever drop bar riding happiness.
4 years ago I discovered SRAM HRD and am now more or less converted to it on my best bikes, 2 of which are actually eTap which I really, really like.
To sum up I don’t have problems with riding safely on the hoods with either Campag or SRAM only with Shimano.