[Closed] How do the top riders train for 24 hours solo ?

Hard graft.

Tallent.

More hard graft.

http://40psi.wordpress.com/

http://www.twinklydave.com/

I hear that diet is important... 😉

I work as a 'sports scientist' with one of the riders on your list and I know that 'we' measure VO2 and the like in the laboratory, and 'they' train with a power meter on their road bike.

Meat features heavily in their diet.

http://www.chriseatough.com/?page=plans

and pies 😉

Harry, I was hoping for a bit more detail than that.
Both of those links are more a series of race reports than a training log.
Still interesting stuff, just not what I'm after.

Captain, should I be eating more chips then ?

and how to train for a 48+ hours http://www.davebuchanan.co.uk/

Different things work for different people. I know some top soloists who are incredibly strict on their training, and others who just ride their bike lots and lots and lots, and indeed some who don't really ride all that much. Natural talent and physiology comes into it of course.

It's generally a long term thing, a couple of years to build up to that level at least, and most are very fast riders anyway.

Come race day a lot of it is mental too. I don't know how much time you lost at the weekend stopping, but don't! Have food and drinks ready trackside every lap, stop, take what you need, pedal off. If you start getting off your bike and faffing, and stopping just for 20 minutes here and there, then you start haemorraging time. You can easily lose a couple of hours over the course of 24 against someone who just plods on.

I think Jase just lives two lives. By day, he's relatively normal. When it's dark, he rides his bike.

He doesn't sleep.

willing to bet that stretching and injury prevention feature highly .... 😉

Are 24hr solo rides that important?
I thought they were for the people who were not tallented enough to compete in proper bike races, and just chose the 12 & 24 events as an ego boosting exercise.

I use a powertap and that has changed the way I train and made a big difference.

I don't have a coach, but do get tested in the run up to big events to monitor "stuff". Much more than just V02 max.

I will plan the training myself, maybe a week at a time and use the data taken from the powertap to decide what workouts are needed.

I'm not sure if anyone else trains in the same way. I like science, I like numbers and it works for me.

Hi Matt 😉

try mailing iDave, his company were offering some sort of offer on a training/motivational package a while back as I recall...

......can't imagine too many top athletes are going to blog or tweet their sucessful training methods

"I thought they were for the people who were not tallented enough to compete in proper bike races"

unfortunantly - it seems that if your fast at 24s your fast at 2 hours .... assuming your geniunely fast and not just a successful plodder (ie dont actually stop)....

matts both faast and a plodder = full of win ... i was just fast between stops 😀

[url= http://www.grippedstore.com/product-p/24dvd.htm ]24 Solo[/url] not a training plan but gives you an insight into what Matt, Ant and all the others go through at times.

I rode 12hr at this year's solo champs in Scotland and both Matt and Ant "danced" passed me at about the 6 hour point, Moonman, trust me those two were having a proper race.

Think you'll also find that both Matt and Ant don't do too bad in the BMBS either.

Having has the top lads peg it past me 22hrs into 24/12 they're just hoofing fast regardless of time of day or the fact the track's become 3 inches of slippy clay.

I was genuinely awestruck by their ability to go so fast when all I wanted was my Mum and for it to stop.

Lord knows how they train. More efficiently then me - patently.

mooman, you ought to go for a ride with some of the team guys, I don't as I'd get 'owned' 😉

My mistake, I think you will have ridden with one or two of them

From following their Twitter feeds, Facebook updates & speaking to the likes of Rob they seem to ride A LOT. When they are not working (appears they commute to work by bike most of the time) it seems they are out on their bikes at every opportunity regardless of the weather.

Basically they live to ride their bikes.

I admire such dedication.

That Dave Buchanan site looks interesting, although I was after a general idea of what other people do, not paying for a tailored programme for myself.
We've got the [url= http://www.endomondo.com/challenges/2115736 ]STW Endomondo Challenge[/url] where you can keep track of everyone else's daily mileage.
You can click on any member's name on [url= http://www.fetcheveryone.com/userprofile.php?id=33419&show=training&totaltab=B ]FetchEveryone[/url], a running forum, and check on their training and race results, with splits and all sorts of other data.
It would be interesting to have something like that for 24 hour racers, just to see how many miles, and at what pace, they're doing between races.

Yeah, njee20, stopping between laps is my big downfall. I was asking more about between race training than race day tactics, but spending 5 hours, that's nearly a quarter of the race, stationary at SITS probably lost me a few places.

I think once the "season" starts the big boys are just topping up their fitness / recovery - most the training is done over the winter with base level mileage.

See I think all the top guys are actually worse than me. I do bugger all training, in fact I've been off the bike for about 2 years, however in a 24 hr event I can manage 5 laps as opposed to them doing 24 ish, so proportionally I am better than them when you count the amount of effort put in to training 🙂

Mike Hall's blog, detailing some of his preparation for Straphpuffer, etc.

http://velobang.wordpress.com/

I know he went from being a very keen amateur to cutting out the excuses and properly going for it a few years ago, and this blog was meant to detail this. He was always a bit of an animal on the bike anyway, I know he does a lot of road miles and lives in places with lots of hills 🙂

if you want to borrow my copy of twentyfour solo mail me you adress graham and i will chuck it in the post. i seem to recall that chris eatough never did more than about four hours during training.

If you start getting off your bike and faffing, and stopping just for 20 minutes here and there, then you start haemorraging time. You can easily lose a couple of hours over the course of 24 against someone who just plods on.

This makes sense. Every adventure race/sportive I've done I've been very surprised with the amount of time I've spent at transitions or feed stops by the end.

Get a Pit-Bitch

but spending 5 hours, that's nearly a quarter of the race, stationary at SITS probably lost me a few places.

Gee from these parts came 3rd at Mayhem 06 in his first solo attempt, he stopped for two 15 minute breaks throughout the whole event. You gave away at least 4 laps, how much further would that have moved you up, more than a few places I'll wager!

I thought they were for the people who were not tallented enough to compete in proper bike races, and just chose the 12 & 24 events as an ego boosting exercise.

Can you and mtbmatt have a race please, and can we all watch? 🙂

I think the key is not stopping for too long. For me, if I stop I always find it hard to get moving again 😆

I would also love the watch Mtbmatt V Mooman race.

Hi Graham 🙂

I've only been taking my training seriously this year, and have been following a training plan from Chris Eatough for 20 odd weeks - I've learnt a lot about myself in this time.

I've learnt what works for me, and am finding that quality, and length are hugely important for me - but at different times.

I've been doing a mix of short rides (2 hours'ish) with tempos, intervals, XC race simulation in the week and long'ish rides (8 hours+) at the weekends; these deviate from my plan - but I think for me thats the point, the plan was a starting point to find what works for me, and it's been money well spent.

The other important thing I've found is to know when to rest, and know when a recovery ride will be better.

I know you've said you don't want to pay for a plan, but I'd advocate buying a single plan and picking a single event to train for - you'll find out a lot about how your body responds to different training methods - which is invaluable.

Following a plan also pushes you to ride when you really can't be bothered, but when you get out you're so glad you did.

Just to clarify - you do know me, I'm Zoe's partner - I was supporting Twentyfour12 this year 🙂

Just a little plug, as he's a really nice chap... [url] http://chriseatough.com/?page=plans [/url]

i seem to recall that chris eatough never did more than about four hours during training.

I can't imagine that is true. I would say he would have been knocking out the hundred milers most weeks in the run up to a big event.

Not specific to 24 hr racing but free training plan [url= http://www.fullysussed.co.uk/index.php?p=2_8 ]Fullysussed[/url] Jay didn't ride the 24 solo but did take the win in 12hr Vets.

I'm just a rider.

We train hard, a lot. But if we didn't like the training, then we couldn't do it. Up to 3-450 miles a week depending on the time of year, and this reduces as we do more MTB obviously.

It's horse for courses come raceday. Some like short races, some like long. Some of us have a VO2Max as great as the short course and pro roadie boys, and just use it differently. If you train for a specific event you get better at that event, and others suffer, generally.

If you spent any time with any of the racers at the 24's or 12's you would see no inflated ego at all (not any more). That's why we'll race each other one month: knocking ten bells out of each other: and the next, we'll be supporting each other. It's a very sociable scene and almost remiscent of family values.

I haven't raced this year as I have had other things to do, and I've missed it. But a fair few of the 24hr and 12hr crowd came along to support me and make sure I trashed myself properly. Thanks guys, I think.

Most of our hard training is done in the winter, and is based on increasing our Threshold power, basically by working hard and breathing out of our arses for parts of our 20-30 hours a week, plus job. We already tend to have really good base engines from a season's racing (or long distance riding). Heart rate, Power meters (brlliant) and Perceived exertion all play a part in what we do. We love gadgets.

If you can train for 10-15 hours a week, then you'll do fine. Just practice not stopping, or being able to do daft things like put on arm warmers and changing gloves etc whilst riding. Small things make a huge difference. Go ride when you really can't be arsed, or are "too tired" now and again. This will toughen you up.

One long ride a week and two interval sessions a week, interspersed with a couple of easy recovery rides. The evidence still doesn't support the use of recovery rides, but we like 'em. They make you feel better.

Cross train a bit for the first couple of years, then at least make sure your core and upper body can take the massive hammering you wil get on a 24hour course or point to point challenge ride. It's usually the upper body that gives in once you've got reasonably strong. Power meters can't take account of the input from your upper body (which is massive) so that's one reason why they haven't caught on in MTB as yet, amongst others.

If you want to improve at the best rate you can, then invest a bit in a coach. They can see things that you can't as he/she will be more objective about what you are doing.(Matt is the odd one here, as he can). Coaches needn't be more than about 30 quid a month and there are some really good ones about.

If you need any help then just drop me a line. I'm not a coach, but if I can help someone along a bit then I'll gladly do so. You've already been on my webby.

blanche - Member
I'm just a rider.

We train hard, a lot. But if we didn't like the training, then we couldn't do it. Up to 3-450 miles a week depending on the time of year, and this reduces as we do more MTB obviously.

It's horse for courses come raceday. Some like short races, some like long. Some of us have a VO2Max as great as the short course and pro roadie boys, and just use it differently. If you train for a specific event you get better at that event, and others suffer, generally.

If you spent any time with any of the racers at the 24's or 12's you would see no inflated ego at all (not any more). That's why we'll race each other one month: knocking ten bells out of each other: and the next, we'll be supporting each other. It's a very sociable scene and almost remiscent of family values.

I haven't raced this year as I have had other things to do, and I've missed it. But a fair few of the 24hr and 12hr crowd came along to support me and make sure I trashed myself properly. Thanks guys, I think.

Most of our hard training is done in the winter, and is based on increasing our Threshold power, basically by working hard and breathing out of our arses for parts of our 20-30 hours a week, plus job. We already tend to have really good base engines from a season's racing (or long distance riding). Heart rate, Power meters (brlliant) and Perceived exertion all play a part in what we do. We love gadgets.

If you can train for 10-15 hours a week, then you'll do fine. Just practice not stopping, or being able to do daft things like put on arm warmers and changing gloves etc whilst riding. Small things make a huge difference. Go ride when you really can't be arsed, or are "too tired" now and again. This will toughen you up.

One long ride a week and two interval sessions a week, interspersed with a couple of easy recovery rides. The evidence still doesn't support the use of recovery rides, but we like 'em. They make you feel better.

Cross train a bit for the first couple of years, then at least make sure your core and upper body can take the massive hammering you wil get on a 24hour course or point to point challenge ride. It's usually the upper body that gives in once you've got reasonably strong. Power meters can't take account of the input from your upper body (which is massive) so that's one reason why they haven't caught on in MTB as yet, amongst others.

If you want to improve at the best rate you can, then invest a bit in a coach. They can see things that you can't as he/she will be more objective about what you are doing.(Matt is the odd one here, as he can). Coaches needn't be more than about 30 quid a month and there are some really good ones about.

If you need any help then just drop me a line. I'm not a coach, but if I can help someone along a bit then I'll gladly do so. You've already been on my webby.

This is good advice.

mtbmatt..

Eatough’s successes on the race course are the result of many hours of training but not the type you might expect. Although he spends a full day in the saddle come race time, his training rides are rarely longer than three to four hours. Longer days are tossed into the mix on occasion or prior to a major event, but otherwise he has built up such a solid foundation of base miles and fitness that most of the time is merely spent maintaining that level.

^^^ from bike radar plus it's more or less what he says on twentyfour solo.

i know what you mean though i find it hard to get my head around it.

Mtbmatt- out of curiosity, I presume you are using the power meter on a road bike, correct? Or are you using an MTB hub and bike form power meter training?

I'd want to know what Eatough did to get to the level he's at though, it sounds like what he's doing now is maintaining fitness rather than building his massive aerobic base. What I mean is, does the training he does know work for him now because of his background, or did he do the same training when he wasn't as good as he is now?

Good thread,

some interesting comments here.

What I mean is, does the training he does know work for him now because of his background

This. Staying at one level isn't nearly as hard as getting there in the first place!

Rickie Cotter lives round the corner, she paints and decorates full time, rides the rest of the time. Don't know how she does it, deserves some proper sponsorship for sure.

graham

do you vary the pace of your rides much?

My own training is little more than extending my commute home whenever I can

this sounds a little like my own training - i find it far too easy to do all rides at a similar pace - never pushing the pace up.

That's what I thought njee, so it would be fair to say that if you're not that good, don't assume you can do lots of short rides as a shortcut because that's what one of the best guys does.

Correct.

Chris's longer days are well timed and relevant to a specific race. In fact, all of his workouts are timed as such. Some appear to laugh in the face of common practice and wisdom, but they work.
He does similar things with his individually coached athletes. The ones that can cope with his particular brand of high intensity training.
It's not for everyone- to train at that intensity.
But he coaches on an individual level and is brilliant.

I'd echo what's already been said, some good advice there. I'm an avid follower of Mr Eatough's training for endurance racing.

However, before you decide to spend the money, I would say it's important for you to know the ins and outs of training and what's involved. In my opinion, it's important to know [i]why[/i] your training at a certain heart rate, and [i]why[/i] you're going out for x number of hours etc.

A great starter, and something I always refer back to is Joe Friel's Training Bible for Cyclists (2 versions available, road and MTB, but both are essentially the same). This will take you through the process of training and why you're doing it and how. It'll even give you enough information to get you started in structuring your own training plan.

I started off following my own training plans based on Joe Friel's Bible. This got me to a certain level but I found I "plateaued". I then moved on to Chris Eatough's plans last year and have been following them ever since for my "key" events during the season. They've been invaluable and I've had decent results from it.

You've done your fair share of endurance events Graham so I'm guessing you want to go from finishing, to finishing strongly and higher placed? I find it's important to have a goal for these events, as it helps motivate you and focus you. Even going from "just riding" to following a slightly more structured approach, not necessarily a full blown training plan, in your riding/training can have big benefits.

Just be wary that going from your normal riding/training to following a training plan can give your body a big shock, and it'll need to adapt slowly. Take it easy to start with, and listen to your body, not the writing in front of you, otherwise you risk hurting yourself and making yourself ill.

Just be wary that going from your normal riding/training to following a training plan can give your body a big shock, and it'll need to adapt slowly. Take it easy to start with, and listen to your body, not the writing in front of you, otherwise you risk hurting yourself and making yourself ill.

This +1.

What I mean is, does the training he does know work for him now because of his background

This. Staying at one level isn't nearly as hard as getting there in the first place!

+1 and also even after 8 months of NOT training - just riding around work (whats the point in training when i can be sent anywhere in the world at a moments notice - ill just enjoy riding thanks)... i can get my self back to a significant proportion of what i was at my peak in a couple of weeks shock HIIT followed by a bit of rest (but i wouldnt fancy entering a 24 on the back of that 😉 - ive done 10s on that principal though

Although he spends a full day in the saddle come race time, his training rides are rarely longer than three to four hours. Longer days are tossed into the mix on occasion or prior to a major event, but otherwise he has built up such a solid foundation of base miles and fitness that most of the time is merely spent maintaining that level.

Rarely is different to never! 🙂

Mtbmatt- out of curiosity, I presume you are using the power meter on a road bike, correct? Or are you using an MTB hub and bike form power meter training?

I use the powertap on the road bike. While it would be interesting to see the figures from the MTB I think most people are in agreement that the numbers would be largely inaccurate as the power fluctuations and the amount of work done by the upper body is far greater than on a road bike.

While it would be interesting to see the figures from the MTB I think most people are in agreement that the numbers would be largely inaccurate as the power fluctuations and the amount of work done by the upper body is far greater than on a road bike.

+1, I've always wondered what the outputs are like on the MTB. Christian Aucote has an SRM on his MTB!

A comment blanche made earlier reminds me of something I read over 20 years ago when I was a runner. It was suggested you lost endurance after a week and speed after 3/4 days so you should do at least 1 long run and two fast runs. If time was short this was the minimum of what I do with other runs being social or recovery.

Try to do this now that I am riding more frequently as well. Also started using the Joe Friel book earlier this year (one for >50's) which had some good advice.

s others's have said don't neglect the upper body.

side topic but relevant, at the recent Olympic test event several of the riders rode the event with powertap hubs fitted. More female than male but I was surprised to see so many. (assume that they were on a data gathering mission) discuss.

Anyway I'm off to to go training, not many months until May and the 3rd Solo champs!

(assume that they were on a data gathering mission)

This. See what the requirements of the course are and where they're lacking, hone it for next year. Means they can 'replicate' the course anytime they want.

While it would be interesting to see the figures from the MTB I think most people are in agreement that [i]the numbers would be largely inaccurate[/i] as the power fluctuations and the amount of work done by the upper body is far greater than on a road bike.

I think inaccurate isn't the correct word, really. Misleading, perhaps, because as you say the raw power numbers won't tell the whole story. The PM will still record the actual power output as accurately as it would on the road.

I've always wondered what the outputs are like on the MTB. Christian Aucote has an SRM on his MTB!

Massively variable, the power line on a graph will look like a shark's jawline. The NP and VI will be very high.
I don't have an MTB power meter but I've used them on my cross bikes and found this, so I suspect that on an MTB it would be even more pronounced.

For me a training plan following a fitness test helped me massively. It took all the guess work out of what i needed to do and made it very specific (instead of doing endless miles without knowing what works)

nearly all my base training was done at an hour on the rollers.

By following a structured training plan my fitness improved massively

I was told the improvement I saw was quite big because I was relatively untrained before and my body adapted to the training well (and it was progressive)

So, i'd echo the comments about either getting a coach or devising a training plan.

I'm still in my second year of lazy arse mode (I blame the new baby 😉 but I went from several years of just doing lots of riding to training "properly" with testing/training plan from Matt Hart at Torq (using a power meter on the road bike for the bulk of the sessions) so I was able to go from consistent 9th place finishes to 4th place finishes (never quite cracked the top 3 - I'm a slow steady type and tend to lose too much time early on!)

Riding lots is fine and enjoyable, but you really have to do LOTS. A proper structured plan initially seems quite easy, but there is little wasted time and it does really build up and has an impact (just make sure you allow time to just have fun as well). Combining it with a stressful job/family life is the hardest bit of all...

If you are serious about it, I'd recommend using a coaching service like Torq - I had read various books but it's not easy to translate into a specific plan to meet your needs, so best learn from someone who knows what they're doing! Training with a power meter is also a much better guide than heart rate, so consider making that investment (you can do it by feel/effort but it's hard to know what that feels like until you've used a power meter, and you don't get the feedback in terms of progression).

In the race itself, pacing and minimising stops are the key aspects, along with a good reliable pit crew!

Oh, and plenty of beer and chocolate are essential too...

It's usually the upper body that gives in once you've got reasonably strong.

This was why my laps times were crashing at 6am when I did 24/12 last year. That and stupid crap like blisters and hand numbness. Legs reached a point where they stopped hurting any more than the already did but the rest of the body started to fall to bits.

I wrote a 12 week plan for Strathpuffer and stuck to it mostly. The key for me is a mix of volume weeks and intensity weeks of increasing hardness followed by a 'consolidation week' anywhere between 6 to 10 days which ends 10 days to 2 weeks before your target event. The consolidation week is lots of volume and intensity together and as such it helps if you can have a break from your normal life so you can remove all other pressures, eat well and sleep without an alarm clock. What I would say to someone who has a typically busy work life is (if you can) take a weeks riding holiday two weeks before, preferably somewhere like the alps so there's lots of hills and altitude. Ride every day like its the last then start your 'taper' when you get back. Train for the holiday/consolidation week, ride hard, and the event will take care of itself,

I did the Trans Provence last September and made a point to myself of riding all the uplifts, we were well fed and always in bed early because there wasn't much else to do after dinner (dark early). Two weeks after, it was Oktoberfest and I became significantly faster that weekend.

I never understood what made a good taper for a while either because top riders would talk about it but not in any detail but I experimented a little and found a week of riding what feels good, followed by maybe some short interval sessions then keeping the legs spinning a few days leading up to the event. I also experimented with 'super-compensation' before Oktoberfest though, which worked a treat.

Most of the time its just hard graft and discipline that works, any 'secret techniques' people claim to have are generally just a smoke screen.

For Sleepless the Tour Divide gave me a lot of base miles but I was in bits when I got back 5 weeks before the event. I had 2 weeks off, then got ill so had to have another week off. Then I rode 3 interval sessions and a 3 hour hilly training ride before a shorter 1 week taper. I'm not sure it was optimum, but it was enough.

Mike

Kate Potter from [url= http://aquickrelease.com ]AQR HOLIDAYS AND COACHING[/url] sorts out my training plans.

She devises personal and varied routines. some short some long to fit in with my busy life. Loads of base hours through the winter, plenty of cross training, tons of core work. Hills (slow and fast), mental training to help deal with the pain/boredom. Ian Potter sorts out proper bike fit and skills tuition/ learning how to ride as efficiently as possible which all helps to make you faster.
I rarely use a HRM just perceived exertion, I use a wattbike for precise pedaling feedback and indoor training when I cant get out.

All good fun:-) and it works. I took about 20 mins a lap off my solo 24 pace from last year to this year. Ok I was pretty rubbish to start with but I was amazed how doing the 'right thing' just makes it happen.

[url= http://annedickins24.blogspot.com/2011/01/so-you-want-to-do-24-hour-race.html ]some more 24 hour info here. [/url]

I assume Matt means that the power data won't reflect the difficulty of the ride and the load it has placed on the body. I don't use a powertap off road but I bet a rough mtb ride would take longer to recover from than a road ride with a similar TSS/bikescore.

+1 for training more than just legs. I found the gym to be an essential part of my overal improvement in performance. That an a HRM for the event so I stayed within my zones.

From recent experience I can certainly vouch for the benefit of base training. I spent the winter and spring mostly riding staedily with a fe faster rides from February onwards. In June / July I did 4,000 miles in Canada / USA carrying the full load so riding was steady (included Tour Divide).

Last Tuesday was my first and last opportunity to do a club time trial this year so went along with no expectation as I was only back home 4 days. The course is really hilly and I usually struggle round and am out of the saddle trying to get a bit more speed on regular basis and grabbong small chainring. On Tuesday I found myself initially not suffering into the wind as much as usual and not being caught on the first hill. I felt really strong and managed to stay in big ring for all but the two biggest climbs which is an achievement for me. Ended up with my best time in years and feeling stronger than I can recall despite no speed work for ~3 months+

Must try and find a couple of months of mega miles next winter.

Haven't read through that lot, sorry.
I did a fair few all rather badly, but it was never the fault of my legs or lungs.
I do plenty of base still, and had decades of base in me anyway.
When I trained specifically for 24 solos I did more long rides, and it didn't seem to help.
Then I went to XC racing one hour jobs, and suddenly I was a better 24 rider?
What it was, was mentality. Thinking about familly, my business etc add that to going round the same course all day and you implode.
But I think the pain and suffering of a short one hour XC race put the steady plod of the 24 into perspective.
However I do have an acid problem when I race 24s, very painfull and lasts a good month afterwards.
Still might have a go again one day...if it stays dry.

but I bet a rough mtb ride would take longer to recover from than a road ride with a similar TSS/bikescore.

@Oldgit. I get acid problems, too. Had a stomach ulcer on one race that I thought was something else. Infinit nutrition has stopped that problem. No more acid problems, well, they are much reduced. I'm biased, being sponsored by them, but I approached them as it worked well for me. Tell them your woes and they will mix a specific drink for you. I can get you a discount too. 🙂
And eating straight after a ride....

Grazed Knee,
back from hols,you nightriding next week?

Rickos:

am finding that quality, and length are hugely important for me - but at different times

Is that what the missus says too 😀

Sorry... IGMC

I structure my training around the Joe Friel training bible and generally my longest ride per week is 3-4 hours until I get to the build period where I throw in a 6 hour ride every now and again. My weekly hours top out at 18 hours but generally hover around the 12 hour mark. Important thing I find is not just the time you spend training but how specific and effective that training is so I do my best to make every minute count as quality training time. Though as I also try and enjoy my mountain biking at least one or two rides a week are unstructured rides to keep the enjoyment up.

One thing I have been doing after taking advice is training on empty which involves getting up Saturday morning and heading out the door with no breakfast, then gradually over time I have built this up to being able to ride for 6 hours without taking in anything but water before and during the ride. Correct recovery after the end of the ride is absolutely crucial however! The point of this is to reduce the bodies dependency on carbohydrate as a fuel and increase the use of fat for fuel over long distance rides. From my own experience it works fantastically and my endurance is significantly improved over the last few months. My general nutrition has also changed after I sought advice on this and this has what has helped me train more effectively by ensuring I have the energy to do so throughout the week.

This has to be the most useful and interesting thread I've ever read on STW. Only partly as I didn't know Rickie Cotter was a painter and decorator! 🙂

Excellent thread.

I too got myself tested at the start of the year, and then based my running knowledge with Joe Friels book to create a plan. Sessions were based on the heart rate zones found out during the testing.

It worked and I'm pleased with the results.

The next step is to test again but this time buy a PowerTap wheel and use power based zones instead of heart rate to guide me, along with some custom training plans.

However the biggest gain I got was joining a club and getting my arse kicked twice a week. Technique training, especially for XC has been a revelation!

For those data-oriented people, [url= http://app.strava.com/dashboard ]STRAVA[/url] is a very cool way to 'follow' what other people are doing and also track your own progress. There are a lot of top atheletes using STRAVA that have open profiles allowing you to view their entire training program.

the [url= http://app.strava.com/athletes/search ]athlete search[/url] allows you to find anyone that wants to be found!

I think inaccurate isn't the correct word, really. Misleading, perhaps, because as you say the raw power numbers won't tell the whole story. The PM will still record the actual power output as accurately as it would on the road.

There is also the sampling rate of the powermeter to take into account. Most are around 1 second, but Mountain Bike power output can change even within a second, which might be missed in the data.

Cheers blanche.

I'm curious to see how I would get on in another one next year, based exclusively on road work?

The build would be ;
3 month long cross season.
A low key road season
several 200/300/400km Audaxes
A 12 hour TT
Plus regular weekly club commitments.
I've done 11 solos in the past so know the pitfalls, plus I feel like I've had a good and needed break from them.

I only started this thread out of curiosity to see what the top riders are doing, I wasn't really looking for training advice for myself, although it's always worth picking up tips wherever I can.
At 48 years old and 95kg, no amount of training is going to get me up to elite level.

You gave away at least 4 laps, how much further would that have moved you up

do you vary the pace of your rides much?

There is also the sampling rate of the powermeter to take into account. Most are around 1 second, but Mountain Bike power output can change even within a second, which might be missed in the data.

Yes, good point. I would've thought that tools like Quadrant Analysis in WKO would be very useful though.

erm, my tuppense is less scientific.

Dont use powermeters, and even my diet is at best shit.
I would stick to 12 hours or less events, for some reason 24hrs hasn't done anything for me to compete in them.
Stick to doing mainly road miles, and some road races, things that teach you to have good pedalling technique and different ranges of power and increase/decrease in speed.
I just like getting out and riding, i dont do hill reps etc, just do what i feel, but i try and do at least 2 group sessions a week.
You also get to a point in these events when your default speed, the speed you slow down to when ( inevitably at some point) your body takes a break, is still actually quite quick compared to other around you, and this may take a while to recover from, or until you call on yourself to attempt to up the tempo ( being caught ). Its also mental attitude, your mind plays numbing tricks on you at best of times telling you to quit and its getting through these ( and mechanical issues).

Great thread! I'm nowhere near as fit as I should be and this sort of thread is inspirational. I was once told that summer races are won in winter. If only the winter was 25 degrees and light until ten....

" I was once told that summer races are won in winter."

100% - and youd be surprised how little more you actually need to do in winter(as long as your consistently riding at a good pace) to see a marked improvement on your results (unless your expert/elite and everyones serious)

I was once told that summer races are won in winter."

True, but be careful. For years I worked hard over winter and it was always commented on that I seemed to be going strong, but come May I'd start going backwards. Peaking too soon.

Great thread.

Training's great, I like doing it as much as the next person, but choosing your parents well is the best prep you can possibly do. As has already been said - those doing well at 24hrs will be doing pretty well at 2.

There are plenty of compelling arguments out there for the training only affecting a relatively small percentage of overall performance & the remainder is a combination of mental ability plus genetic potential.

I love the feeling of going out on a baltic, wet and dark winter training ride, knowing that most others wont bother.

but choosing your parents well is the best prep you can possibly do

very true, unfortunately...

You can make up a lot for it though by having the right head on your shoulders though.