[Closed] How do the top riders train for 24 hours solo ?

Just be wary that going from your normal riding/training to following a training plan can give your body a big shock, and it'll need to adapt slowly. Take it easy to start with, and listen to your body, not the writing in front of you, otherwise you risk hurting yourself and making yourself ill.

This +1.

What I mean is, does the training he does know work for him now because of his background

This. Staying at one level isn't nearly as hard as getting there in the first place!

+1 and also even after 8 months of NOT training - just riding around work (whats the point in training when i can be sent anywhere in the world at a moments notice - ill just enjoy riding thanks)... i can get my self back to a significant proportion of what i was at my peak in a couple of weeks shock HIIT followed by a bit of rest (but i wouldnt fancy entering a 24 on the back of that 😉 - ive done 10s on that principal though

Although he spends a full day in the saddle come race time, his training rides are rarely longer than three to four hours. Longer days are tossed into the mix on occasion or prior to a major event, but otherwise he has built up such a solid foundation of base miles and fitness that most of the time is merely spent maintaining that level.

Rarely is different to never! 🙂

Mtbmatt- out of curiosity, I presume you are using the power meter on a road bike, correct? Or are you using an MTB hub and bike form power meter training?

I use the powertap on the road bike. While it would be interesting to see the figures from the MTB I think most people are in agreement that the numbers would be largely inaccurate as the power fluctuations and the amount of work done by the upper body is far greater than on a road bike.

While it would be interesting to see the figures from the MTB I think most people are in agreement that the numbers would be largely inaccurate as the power fluctuations and the amount of work done by the upper body is far greater than on a road bike.

+1, I've always wondered what the outputs are like on the MTB. Christian Aucote has an SRM on his MTB!

A comment blanche made earlier reminds me of something I read over 20 years ago when I was a runner. It was suggested you lost endurance after a week and speed after 3/4 days so you should do at least 1 long run and two fast runs. If time was short this was the minimum of what I do with other runs being social or recovery.

Try to do this now that I am riding more frequently as well. Also started using the Joe Friel book earlier this year (one for >50's) which had some good advice.

s others's have said don't neglect the upper body.

side topic but relevant, at the recent Olympic test event several of the riders rode the event with powertap hubs fitted. More female than male but I was surprised to see so many. (assume that they were on a data gathering mission) discuss.

Anyway I'm off to to go training, not many months until May and the 3rd Solo champs!

(assume that they were on a data gathering mission)

This. See what the requirements of the course are and where they're lacking, hone it for next year. Means they can 'replicate' the course anytime they want.

While it would be interesting to see the figures from the MTB I think most people are in agreement that [i]the numbers would be largely inaccurate[/i] as the power fluctuations and the amount of work done by the upper body is far greater than on a road bike.

I think inaccurate isn't the correct word, really. Misleading, perhaps, because as you say the raw power numbers won't tell the whole story. The PM will still record the actual power output as accurately as it would on the road.

I've always wondered what the outputs are like on the MTB. Christian Aucote has an SRM on his MTB!

Massively variable, the power line on a graph will look like a shark's jawline. The NP and VI will be very high.
I don't have an MTB power meter but I've used them on my cross bikes and found this, so I suspect that on an MTB it would be even more pronounced.

For me a training plan following a fitness test helped me massively. It took all the guess work out of what i needed to do and made it very specific (instead of doing endless miles without knowing what works)

nearly all my base training was done at an hour on the rollers.

By following a structured training plan my fitness improved massively

I was told the improvement I saw was quite big because I was relatively untrained before and my body adapted to the training well (and it was progressive)

So, i'd echo the comments about either getting a coach or devising a training plan.

I'm still in my second year of lazy arse mode (I blame the new baby 😉 but I went from several years of just doing lots of riding to training "properly" with testing/training plan from Matt Hart at Torq (using a power meter on the road bike for the bulk of the sessions) so I was able to go from consistent 9th place finishes to 4th place finishes (never quite cracked the top 3 - I'm a slow steady type and tend to lose too much time early on!)

Riding lots is fine and enjoyable, but you really have to do LOTS. A proper structured plan initially seems quite easy, but there is little wasted time and it does really build up and has an impact (just make sure you allow time to just have fun as well). Combining it with a stressful job/family life is the hardest bit of all...

If you are serious about it, I'd recommend using a coaching service like Torq - I had read various books but it's not easy to translate into a specific plan to meet your needs, so best learn from someone who knows what they're doing! Training with a power meter is also a much better guide than heart rate, so consider making that investment (you can do it by feel/effort but it's hard to know what that feels like until you've used a power meter, and you don't get the feedback in terms of progression).

In the race itself, pacing and minimising stops are the key aspects, along with a good reliable pit crew!

Oh, and plenty of beer and chocolate are essential too...

It's usually the upper body that gives in once you've got reasonably strong.

This was why my laps times were crashing at 6am when I did 24/12 last year. That and stupid crap like blisters and hand numbness. Legs reached a point where they stopped hurting any more than the already did but the rest of the body started to fall to bits.

I wrote a 12 week plan for Strathpuffer and stuck to it mostly. The key for me is a mix of volume weeks and intensity weeks of increasing hardness followed by a 'consolidation week' anywhere between 6 to 10 days which ends 10 days to 2 weeks before your target event. The consolidation week is lots of volume and intensity together and as such it helps if you can have a break from your normal life so you can remove all other pressures, eat well and sleep without an alarm clock. What I would say to someone who has a typically busy work life is (if you can) take a weeks riding holiday two weeks before, preferably somewhere like the alps so there's lots of hills and altitude. Ride every day like its the last then start your 'taper' when you get back. Train for the holiday/consolidation week, ride hard, and the event will take care of itself,

I did the Trans Provence last September and made a point to myself of riding all the uplifts, we were well fed and always in bed early because there wasn't much else to do after dinner (dark early). Two weeks after, it was Oktoberfest and I became significantly faster that weekend.

I never understood what made a good taper for a while either because top riders would talk about it but not in any detail but I experimented a little and found a week of riding what feels good, followed by maybe some short interval sessions then keeping the legs spinning a few days leading up to the event. I also experimented with 'super-compensation' before Oktoberfest though, which worked a treat.

Most of the time its just hard graft and discipline that works, any 'secret techniques' people claim to have are generally just a smoke screen.

For Sleepless the Tour Divide gave me a lot of base miles but I was in bits when I got back 5 weeks before the event. I had 2 weeks off, then got ill so had to have another week off. Then I rode 3 interval sessions and a 3 hour hilly training ride before a shorter 1 week taper. I'm not sure it was optimum, but it was enough.

Mike

Kate Potter from [url= http://aquickrelease.com ]AQR HOLIDAYS AND COACHING[/url] sorts out my training plans.

She devises personal and varied routines. some short some long to fit in with my busy life. Loads of base hours through the winter, plenty of cross training, tons of core work. Hills (slow and fast), mental training to help deal with the pain/boredom. Ian Potter sorts out proper bike fit and skills tuition/ learning how to ride as efficiently as possible which all helps to make you faster.
I rarely use a HRM just perceived exertion, I use a wattbike for precise pedaling feedback and indoor training when I cant get out.

All good fun:-) and it works. I took about 20 mins a lap off my solo 24 pace from last year to this year. Ok I was pretty rubbish to start with but I was amazed how doing the 'right thing' just makes it happen.

[url= http://annedickins24.blogspot.com/2011/01/so-you-want-to-do-24-hour-race.html ]some more 24 hour info here. [/url]

I assume Matt means that the power data won't reflect the difficulty of the ride and the load it has placed on the body. I don't use a powertap off road but I bet a rough mtb ride would take longer to recover from than a road ride with a similar TSS/bikescore.

+1 for training more than just legs. I found the gym to be an essential part of my overal improvement in performance. That an a HRM for the event so I stayed within my zones.

From recent experience I can certainly vouch for the benefit of base training. I spent the winter and spring mostly riding staedily with a fe faster rides from February onwards. In June / July I did 4,000 miles in Canada / USA carrying the full load so riding was steady (included Tour Divide).

Last Tuesday was my first and last opportunity to do a club time trial this year so went along with no expectation as I was only back home 4 days. The course is really hilly and I usually struggle round and am out of the saddle trying to get a bit more speed on regular basis and grabbong small chainring. On Tuesday I found myself initially not suffering into the wind as much as usual and not being caught on the first hill. I felt really strong and managed to stay in big ring for all but the two biggest climbs which is an achievement for me. Ended up with my best time in years and feeling stronger than I can recall despite no speed work for ~3 months+

Must try and find a couple of months of mega miles next winter.

Haven't read through that lot, sorry.
I did a fair few all rather badly, but it was never the fault of my legs or lungs.
I do plenty of base still, and had decades of base in me anyway.
When I trained specifically for 24 solos I did more long rides, and it didn't seem to help.
Then I went to XC racing one hour jobs, and suddenly I was a better 24 rider?
What it was, was mentality. Thinking about familly, my business etc add that to going round the same course all day and you implode.
But I think the pain and suffering of a short one hour XC race put the steady plod of the 24 into perspective.
However I do have an acid problem when I race 24s, very painfull and lasts a good month afterwards.
Still might have a go again one day...if it stays dry.

but I bet a rough mtb ride would take longer to recover from than a road ride with a similar TSS/bikescore.

@Oldgit. I get acid problems, too. Had a stomach ulcer on one race that I thought was something else. Infinit nutrition has stopped that problem. No more acid problems, well, they are much reduced. I'm biased, being sponsored by them, but I approached them as it worked well for me. Tell them your woes and they will mix a specific drink for you. I can get you a discount too. 🙂
And eating straight after a ride....

Grazed Knee,
back from hols,you nightriding next week?

Rickos:

am finding that quality, and length are hugely important for me - but at different times

Is that what the missus says too 😀

Sorry... IGMC

I structure my training around the Joe Friel training bible and generally my longest ride per week is 3-4 hours until I get to the build period where I throw in a 6 hour ride every now and again. My weekly hours top out at 18 hours but generally hover around the 12 hour mark. Important thing I find is not just the time you spend training but how specific and effective that training is so I do my best to make every minute count as quality training time. Though as I also try and enjoy my mountain biking at least one or two rides a week are unstructured rides to keep the enjoyment up.

One thing I have been doing after taking advice is training on empty which involves getting up Saturday morning and heading out the door with no breakfast, then gradually over time I have built this up to being able to ride for 6 hours without taking in anything but water before and during the ride. Correct recovery after the end of the ride is absolutely crucial however! The point of this is to reduce the bodies dependency on carbohydrate as a fuel and increase the use of fat for fuel over long distance rides. From my own experience it works fantastically and my endurance is significantly improved over the last few months. My general nutrition has also changed after I sought advice on this and this has what has helped me train more effectively by ensuring I have the energy to do so throughout the week.

This has to be the most useful and interesting thread I've ever read on STW. Only partly as I didn't know Rickie Cotter was a painter and decorator! 🙂

Excellent thread.

I too got myself tested at the start of the year, and then based my running knowledge with Joe Friels book to create a plan. Sessions were based on the heart rate zones found out during the testing.

It worked and I'm pleased with the results.

The next step is to test again but this time buy a PowerTap wheel and use power based zones instead of heart rate to guide me, along with some custom training plans.

However the biggest gain I got was joining a club and getting my arse kicked twice a week. Technique training, especially for XC has been a revelation!

For those data-oriented people, [url= http://app.strava.com/dashboard ]STRAVA[/url] is a very cool way to 'follow' what other people are doing and also track your own progress. There are a lot of top atheletes using STRAVA that have open profiles allowing you to view their entire training program.

the [url= http://app.strava.com/athletes/search ]athlete search[/url] allows you to find anyone that wants to be found!

I think inaccurate isn't the correct word, really. Misleading, perhaps, because as you say the raw power numbers won't tell the whole story. The PM will still record the actual power output as accurately as it would on the road.

There is also the sampling rate of the powermeter to take into account. Most are around 1 second, but Mountain Bike power output can change even within a second, which might be missed in the data.

Cheers blanche.

I'm curious to see how I would get on in another one next year, based exclusively on road work?

The build would be ;
3 month long cross season.
A low key road season
several 200/300/400km Audaxes
A 12 hour TT
Plus regular weekly club commitments.
I've done 11 solos in the past so know the pitfalls, plus I feel like I've had a good and needed break from them.

I only started this thread out of curiosity to see what the top riders are doing, I wasn't really looking for training advice for myself, although it's always worth picking up tips wherever I can.
At 48 years old and 95kg, no amount of training is going to get me up to elite level.

You gave away at least 4 laps, how much further would that have moved you up

do you vary the pace of your rides much?

There is also the sampling rate of the powermeter to take into account. Most are around 1 second, but Mountain Bike power output can change even within a second, which might be missed in the data.

Yes, good point. I would've thought that tools like Quadrant Analysis in WKO would be very useful though.

erm, my tuppense is less scientific.

Dont use powermeters, and even my diet is at best shit.
I would stick to 12 hours or less events, for some reason 24hrs hasn't done anything for me to compete in them.
Stick to doing mainly road miles, and some road races, things that teach you to have good pedalling technique and different ranges of power and increase/decrease in speed.
I just like getting out and riding, i dont do hill reps etc, just do what i feel, but i try and do at least 2 group sessions a week.
You also get to a point in these events when your default speed, the speed you slow down to when ( inevitably at some point) your body takes a break, is still actually quite quick compared to other around you, and this may take a while to recover from, or until you call on yourself to attempt to up the tempo ( being caught ). Its also mental attitude, your mind plays numbing tricks on you at best of times telling you to quit and its getting through these ( and mechanical issues).

Great thread! I'm nowhere near as fit as I should be and this sort of thread is inspirational. I was once told that summer races are won in winter. If only the winter was 25 degrees and light until ten....

" I was once told that summer races are won in winter."

100% - and youd be surprised how little more you actually need to do in winter(as long as your consistently riding at a good pace) to see a marked improvement on your results (unless your expert/elite and everyones serious)

I was once told that summer races are won in winter."

True, but be careful. For years I worked hard over winter and it was always commented on that I seemed to be going strong, but come May I'd start going backwards. Peaking too soon.

Great thread.

Training's great, I like doing it as much as the next person, but choosing your parents well is the best prep you can possibly do. As has already been said - those doing well at 24hrs will be doing pretty well at 2.

There are plenty of compelling arguments out there for the training only affecting a relatively small percentage of overall performance & the remainder is a combination of mental ability plus genetic potential.

I love the feeling of going out on a baltic, wet and dark winter training ride, knowing that most others wont bother.

but choosing your parents well is the best prep you can possibly do

very true, unfortunately...

You can make up a lot for it though by having the right head on your shoulders though.

I created a training plan based on this

http://www.mont24.com.au/gear/?IntCatId=25&IntContId=7531

to fit in with my life and it was still tough, I didnt manage to follow it to the letter.

Thats was to compete in my first 24hr Solo Mayhem. I'm a fairly old git with lots of previous injuries but I didn't want to just survive..

I finished 28th, mostly due to waiting on the last lap as I didn't want to do the final lap and finish an hour later, I really didn't like the course but I was surprised how good I felt. I could have gone faster in two ways, stopped less and upped the pace but I wanted to be very careful not to blow up.

I quickly discovered I needed a HR monitor and a turbo trainer!!

Lots on here are more accomplished and focused on training than I but I can see there is loads of great advice.

The biggest realisation was when Mike Hall said don't stop, that is the killer, amazing how a slower pace without stopping is faster over 24hrs.

5mins a lap over 24hrs is 125mins or 2 hours, 2 laps!!!

I will be aiming to compete more in future I think...

First lap was a nightmare too with someone being taken off course due to injury causing a huge queue and a half hour wait...forgot that..

I finished it thinking I would only do the one and that team racing was more fun, but having then raced 24/12 in a team, i found myself wishing I was solo!! Go figure..

Nicolai would be a good strong choice by the way Graham, but I've said that before...

amazing how a slower pace without stopping is faster over 24hrs

It's just like when you overtake a caravan on the motorway. A couple of hours later you pull in to a service station have a quick wee get on the road again drive for another 2 hours and then pass the same dam caravan.

Ha, dead right, why I was always quicker on my old BMW bike, it wasn't fast but it had a HUGE fuel tank!

I tend to plough my own furrow that can involve 24 hrs at a stretch and I've found commuting by bike to be destructive for training. Too unfocused (neither fast or slow, traffic, lights) and too easy to do when you should be resting instead. I got on better with working from home and training on the turbo in the winter. It was lucky that I could do that but it made me realise not to lean too much on the commute.

If you have lots of other life commitments, poor quality bike time is poison.

Being a novice enduro rider for several years I still find the bulid up fantastic with training but then post event I feel deflated and riding efforts drops for a good 2-3 weeks. Anybody else get this ?

Considering going the turbo trainer route. Single so I can put it in front the TV and I could do some serious base mileage. The one really positive thing about training is my riding pleasure has improved, Im quicker, better rider now that I have a good fitness level. Im enjoying my MTB a lot more.

Is there a good site that explains how to train using a power meter?

Fantastic thread, inspirational stuff, makes me want to ditch the road bike next year.

Is there a good site that explains how to train using a power meter?

i found the 14 day program on this http://www.training4cyclists.com/vo2-max-booster-program-%E2%80%93-intervals-targeted-for-vo2-max/ to be good. You need a good base of course, which is painful and ever so boring to build on a turbo.

I used to extend my ride home from work (to about 1.5 hours) and ride at the weekend 3 hours plus to prepare for the 12 hour i was doing. It was my first one (and last) and came 5th i think in my group. You need motivation, mine was to beat the lad 10 years my junior that worked in my bike shop. You might also need some paracetamol, i know i did.

Basically you need a good base, to circumvent fatigue and injury - and available 'top end' speed, that you may never use during the race, but will mean that you are always working at well below your max, and not burning your matches.

Above all - never give up, and never stop, until you have destroyed the junior employee/mate/old fat lady/yourself etc.

I might do another one some day, knee permitting - good luck.