[Closed] Have we not done this? Cyclist v Police

OK, I've taken a longer look at all this and I'm changing my stance slightly. That is too close. And he doesn't need to come back into the lane. So the cyclist does have a point. I guess this type of close pass happens so often in London, I've come to expect it, even from the fuzz. Still think the editing is suspicious though.

@brakes - fair point, made me LOL too.

he still RLJ's [and cuts it out ] [b]when he gives chase[/b]

But seriously, a car cuts you up, in London, so you chase it down and then vent. Not really the brightest thing to do in general (speaking from experience); if it's plod the sensible thing to do is perhaps take the licence plate and complain later. Chasing it down smacks of 'look at me, look at me, I'm wearing a camera so therefore I'm allowed to do whatever the hell I want'.

If the cop had got out and clocked him one, it would've been slightly funny, but more importantly it would've given justification for all this hullabuloo.
As it is, we have "cop driving like a kn0b, cyclist acting like a tool", and a lot of hand-wringing.

I wonder what would happen if you smashed his wing mirror off

"we've code a code red. arrogant cyclist. requesting back up. over..."

[img] [/img]

Sorry, does this count as Godwins law?

stgeorge - Member
Should have called the copper a pleb......

seriously?! we still have coppers driving around without badges, refusing to provide their number to a member of the public? It is like nothing has changed since the miners strike. right or wrong that guy should have his numbers on

one more thing. I do think the cyclist was in the wrong lane. He pulled out to overtake the bus, he then stayed out when a car was edging out of the road on the left. Fine up until then. He should have then moved back into the bus lane as the right turn he was going for was waaaay off down the road.

the cyclist didn't need to be in that lane. I sometimes wonder if people put a camera on their heads and then go out deliberately seeking a confrontration. Probably didn't deserve having someone swerve towards him in a range rover for it though

Personally, I would have taken the bus lane, let any cars through up to when I needed to turn right, then looked, signaled and pulled into right lane again - seems to have been enough time for that. But, if he was turning right, and signaled, you can [i]understand[/i] him hogging the lane - and if that was the case, you can [i]understand[/i] the copper riding up the inside. BUT, he [i]does[/i] come to close to the cyclist and [i]doesn't[/i] need to cut him up. He also shouldn't be hiding his badge.
[url= http://www.standard.co.uk/news/ill-sack-police-officers-who-hide-their-identity-badges-says-met-chief-6749254.html ]"I'll sack police offices who hide identity badges"[/url]
None of which would justify RLJ, if that was the case. So I agree with nicko74's kn0b/tool assessment.

It's a tricky one. I suspect if I was turning right, I'd stay in the lane he's in. The problem with moving back into the bus lane (with a bus behind you) is that if you want to go back into the right hand lane, you are invisible to any cars overtaking the bus, and cars overtaking the bus are pretty invisible to you.
Having said that I'd probably be right over on the right hand side of the lane in that case to indicate what my intentions are.

I'd stay in the lane. He wasn't exactly going slowly. If you go back in the bus lane you're almost immediately arriving at arrows directing you into the right lane for a right turn. It's safer than two lane changes, it's a tiny inconvenience to any following London driver who's going to encounter many bigger ones. It's not my job as a cyclist to help drivers get to the back of traffic light queues quicker.

[i] sometimes wonder if people put a camera on their heads and then go out deliberately seeking a confrontration.[/i]

Yay! Two in ONE THREAD! Marvellous. Simply marvellous!

I'd have stayed in the right lane too. He's only in it for about twenty seconds or so.

If he'd gone left stayed there for 15 seconds then gone right you'd be complaining he was swerving all over the road. Plus there'd be a good chance he'd get stuck in the left lane as cars behind him take the opportunity to overtake.

But even if you don't think the cyclist was right, the cop shouldn't be passing him so close or swerving at him to make a point.

No way was what the pig* did dangerous. But he was MAKING A POINT by cutting across the front of the cyclist. Anyone who commutes will recognise the move. You get it all the time from idiots who consider you to be in their way.

*pig - not, in this case, slang for policeman.

Those close support guys don't mess about, and I bet the cyclist knew full well he'd split the following pack and was aware of what he was doing. Spend any time on the roads in London and you get to see these support combos about, so should know they take no prisoners. The copper would have been teaching him a lesson by pulling over in front - and quite probably with the full backing of whoever was in the silver rangie. Indeed I'm guessing had they thought the cyclist a threat in any way they'd have just driven over him with no hesitation.

The copper was at fault, that's his job in this situation though. However, having said that, if he was indeed in close support then he made a right old hash of it didn't he? Normally they block any errant driver that strays too close, so failed the instant that the cyclist got between him and the big dog in front. Didn't read the road too well there did he. Then having a public row with the guy, on camera? One suspects he got a bit of a dressing down over this whole incident.

On a lighter note, this is currently my favourite headcam video

DezB - Member
No way was what the pig* did dangerous. But he was MAKING A POINT by cutting across the front of the cyclist.

I think it's definitely dangerous to use your vehicle to make a point.

Also at 56 seconds does Andy McNab ( 😆 ) say 'don't you dare argue with me'?

I bet the cyclist knew full well he'd split the following pack and was aware of what he was doing

Normally they block any errant driver that strays too close, so failed the instant that the cyclist got between him and the big dog in front

So the lane splits in two...

option 1 - cyclist moves into left lanes, then into right lane to turn right. Driver moves into right lane then into left lane to go straight on.

option 2 - cyclist stays in right lane for a *few seconds* then driver moves to left and carries on.

Really, whoever designed the roads needs shooting. This swapping lanes thing happens far too often. Look at this one.. cycle lane on left goes straight on, road on right hand side turns left across it...

A motorbike got between them when they were chatting and as he set off from the lights

Once you've gotten into a tangle with the close support guys, you know full well to back off instantly. There's no wrong or right here with regards to road design, rights of way etc.; Big Dog coming through, cyclist little person, cyclist has to move.

How would you know from the circumstances on the video that you're in such a situation? I don't get it.

So, the cyclist moves into bus lane (after red van and before speed bump - plenty of space for that). Lets vehicles waiting behind him pass. Likely they will take advantage of green light, then signals and moves back in to right lane at the point the arrows on the road show lane division - which is just before the lights. There's enough time to let at least 3 cars through in that time slot, let alone the 1 car waiting behind him. But as mentioned, I can understand both approaches, i think both would be valid, so this is where choice comes in. But this is all beside the point surly? The question is whether the copper driving dangerously.

I have to say, this is the same guy showing excellent cycling manners and generally being a good guy:

How would you know from the circumstances on the video that you're in such a situation? I don't get it.

The second time you are totally aware as it is a big lesson to learn and move well away very quickly as they have no interest in you. That's why I find the video a bit odd. The cyclist is wearing a helmet camera as a matter of routine so one would think had experienced pretty much all that happens on our fine roads. These close support things are getting more common now, so not unusual and something quite a few should have experienced.

Right or wrong, it is what it is. If it is indeed close support then all the rules get thrown out, and unfortunately the cyclist is at fault no matter.

Again, if it was close support, the copper didn't exactly control things vey well and let it get out of hand right from the off. Very sloppy policing and he should have been removed from post onto lesser duties in my opinion.

[i]I think it's definitely dangerous to use your vehicle to make a point.[/i]

Really? Really though? It's effin annoying, yes. I get it all the time, but it's not really dangerous. (Unless there's a foight!)

Very sloppy policing and he should have been removed from post onto lesser duties in my opinion.

how come you know so much about it?
I reckon the cyclist probably cut him up when he pulled out round the bus. What could the officer have done besides drive through him to maintain close contact?

I probably see a close contact convoy go through and past Bank once a month and they appear to be very professional and very well rehearsed, but like you say, very aggressive.

Saw similar behaviour when watching the Tour of Britain and a stray farmer in a 4WD got a bit close to getting in the way. 😀

I have to say, this is the same guy showing excellent cycling manners and generally being a good guy

How can you say that when at 0:28 he quite clearly uses The Force to push over an old bloke?!?

I think it's definitely dangerous to use your vehicle to make a point.

It can be very dangerous. I remember when I was about 13-14 my dad was driving us through France. Ahead at the side of the road he saw a drunk woman. There wasn't a path as it was a very rural location but she was well over to the side but was wobbling a bit. My dad seemed to take offence to this and decided to pass her as close as he could to shake her up. I remember distinctly being really scared as he didn't seem to be giving her much room at all.

He passed her so closely that the wing mirror hit her arm and broke it while sending her spinning. The Police were involved and my dad claimed she fell into the road as he passed. I knew that was crap, as did my brother, my dads new partner and her daughter but no one dared call him on it.

We haven't spoken in years, but you get a nasty person who uses their car to make a point and people can really get hurt.

Edit...I also remember the conversation we had in the car as he approached...we were pleading with him not to pass too close to her. What a massive dick.

brakes - Member

I reckon the cyclist probably cut him up when he pulled out round the bus. What could the officer have done besides drive through him to maintain close contact?

Look, that might justify the undertake but it absolutely doesn't justify cutting him up after the undertake- and neither has anything else in this thread. People can talk about whether it was dangerous or just ****y, but it definately wasn't right, or neccesary.

@ GrahamS LOL. Well, if you've got The Force, you have to use it. At least he has the manners to help him up afterwards though. 😀

[i]The cyclist is wearing a helmet camera as a matter of routine so one would think had experienced pretty much all that happens on our fine roads[/i]

But you can see everything he saw (save for a bit of eye deflection that the camera won't account for). All I see on that video is a range rover going by, after a bit of other traffic. No front-running police car that I can see. The first sign of police is when they're inches from his handlebars. It's not like a fancy-arse range rover is particularly uncommon in London.

How can you say that when at 0:28 he quite clearly uses The Force to push over an old bloke?!?

🙂

As usual a Jedi abusing it for self-aggrandisement.

So it's not about right or wrong as a cyclist, as much as it is about being pragmatic and avoiding angering the one ton boxes. Yes this is crap but it's realistic I reckon.

About as realistic as it gets in these kind of matters.

Most coppers are working class and ill educated ,maybe the entry level sholu be raised to 2.1 degree level to get rid of the tattooed pleb scum ?

Edric 64 - Member

He would have had my fist in his face for knocking me off .I do road rage on a bike rather well

A submission from you a few weeks back.

Most coppers are working class and ill educated ,maybe the entry level sholu be raised to 2.1 degree level to get rid of the tattooed pleb scum ?

ill educated you say? Both of your posts above strike me as being rather uneducated. Perhaps you ought to join up? On the evidence you'd fit right in. 😀

Watched it earlier and thought he over reacted. Watching it again though there's absolutely no reason for the police car to pull back into the cyclists lane so quickly other than to 'buzz' him. Difficult to tell how close he actually was but definitely too close considering there was no reason he couldn't pull right over into the bus lane.

The question is whether the copper driving dangerously.

Well not quite. There are several possible "charges": e.g. Dangerous Driving, Careless Driving or Inconsiderate Driving. http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_prosecuting_cases_of_bad_driving/

However I think its really his attitude not his driving that is being challenged here. Had he answered the ID question and let his superiors pull the "Close protection detail, operational/security reasons dictated he reinstate his road superiority" card then it probably wouldn't be getting the same discussion.

Watched it a few times .
Reckon both Range Rovers are speeding , as the cyclist isnt a mincer and both pull out massive distance in a few seconds .
PoPo RR is 2 up , but passenger doesnt move a muscle just stays out of view.
Police driver is not wearing a seat belt, plus i think has an earpiece in?
All handbags really , Police driver should know better .Undertakes,
then swerves out to make a point.
All this 'close protection' crap. I am not SAS trained so dont know how to do CP , but would you really leave a massive gap between the target and yourself you could fit a large panel van into?
Then take your concentration off the vehicle and occupants you are supposed to be 'protecting' ? to have a pointless arguement that isnt going anywhere with a irate cyclist.

Surely its keep calm , stay vigilant and aware and dont get distracted or open window and start waving your handbag around?

Perversely had a Landy do almost exactly the same on the way home tonight just outside Chertsey.

I didn't catch him up and have a pop though.

😯 Report the copper for dangerous driving. I ride that route on my commute - just south of Waterloo - it's a wide road and plenty of space for him to have undertaken and keeping well clear of the cyclist
If policemen drive like that and behave so defensively when challenged then we have no hope surviving on the roads do we?
I can understand why so few near misses get investigated - clearly the police are as anti-cyclist as the general population, despite it being their job not to be

Once you've gotten into a tangle with the close support guys, you know full well to back off instantly. There's no wrong or right here with regards to road design, rights of way etc.; Big Dog coming through, cyclist little person, cyclist has to move.

Addit: Assuming the front car is also driven & populated by tooled up coppers, then there's either some major James Bond fantasising going on (when was the last assassination attempt on a travelling grandee in London ?) or else these "irreplaceable jewels" should stay where they bloody are and not ponce about on the streets at all

So if there was a whip round to raise money to launch a class action against the Police for dangerous driving / bad attitude to cyclists etc etc would you donate? I definitely would if it was a well organised process, decent lawyers etc. I think it is the only way to get an improvement from the Police. I've recently resigned from LCC because I'm fed up with their weak approach to dealing with the Police.

Horatio- yes- you got it first! I skimmed your post where you mentioned it..
Still- took a while for folk to cotton on!
I've only ever seen stuff like this when it's a big VIP (ie PM, FM ETC) up here in Glasgow and it's been a motorcade type scenario with outriders- was on the 5th floor of our office and heard them coming from about half a mile away- very very impressive watching them scythe their way through about 8 or 9 junctions..
The boys/girls on the bikes were doing a hell of a speed to catch up then overlap the 5 or 6 motors in the middle. Bonkers.
Anyways, comments like- it's London, it happens etc.. Fine. But the copper was still an asshat pulling across like that, cp or not cp..

"a tiny inconvenience to any following London driver who's going to encounter many bigger "

Most of the close dangerous passes you get find you overtaking the car again within a few hundred metres. That's the infuriating thing. That's why I tend to end up remonstrating with the drivers.

I dont buy the CP idea, nor am I aware of them as a daily London cyclist. I see motorcades on the Heathrow run but they always have bikes as well. This doesn't look like it.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure the bus driver who put me in hospital was trying to "teach me a lesson " with a close pass. Using a car like that should result in points.

using a car like that should result in points? not in my opinion, it should result in prison.....if i decide i want to 'teach you a lesson' by scaring you with a bat the law would come down pretty heavy on me but apparently its ok for a copper to do it with 3 tonne of steel? but ok he is on some kind of private errand so that's ok is it? acab? na just the met!

I'm with NWA on this one...

lol

Good to see this story getting attention on non-cycling/driving websites too:

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/10/police-driver-undertakes-cyclist-head-camera-captures-everything/