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I've been coming back from an injury that trashed my fitness at the back end of last year. I've been working my way back since January and I'm wondering if I've overdone it. I've been really desperate to get back into race shape ready for the first event of the year in June.
I started in January with a six week training programme that has a lot of zone 1 and zone 2 stuff in it, supplemented by intervals and hill reps. Then when that finished I've essentially been riding zone 3 with long zone 4/5 efforts which is just how I like to ride.
I ride about 11 hours a week, almost entirely off-road, with around 2,250m climbing so not massive numbers and roughly the same amount of riding I've done for the last 5 years (although with higher intensity), but without a three month injury break beforehand. I do all my training by feel and am not really willing to change that - no heart rate monitoring, no cadence meter, no indoor training, just a head unit with speed on it.
About four weeks ago I did a 130km mountain bike ride at race pace and since I've been really tired (happy to sleep for an hour in the afternoon without disrupting my sleep). The one thing I did differently to normal after this ride was not give myself a week off - I did about 100km during the week in the rain and the cold with the first ride two days after the big one.
On my rides this week, I've cracked on a few steep climbs and just feel down on top end power. But, my regular gravel ride (one I do every week with around 700m climbing all in one go at the start with some really steep sections) today was the fastest it's ever been (admittedly only by 1km/hr), despite fully blowing up on one climb, then having the energy to really power up the next one. Then, after that, I had a few moments in the rest of the ride where my legs just caved.
What's my body telling me here? What does it want me to do? To confuse matters, I've been fairly snotty for the last few weeks so maybe I just have some lingering illness. I've also had a bit of a spell of work-related depression in the last two weeks which I'm now just about out of, but that tends to leave me knackered. But I was knackered before that. I'm also overweight at about 76kg compared to my usual 70.
If it does sound like overtraining, what should I be doing to make sure I'm race fit in 7 weeks time?
I regularly get days where I have absolutely zero in the tank. No rhyme or reason to it usually.
dont try to push through it. Take a day or two off and accept it’s just one of those days
I can see 3 things which don't look like a good idea.
- Riding almost entirely off road over winter is hard. Where I live that would mean hours of cleaning and fixing on top of riding time.
- Riding in zone 3 or above all the time will lead to general fatigue.
- Not recovering after a race/ race simulation. 130 km off road at race pace will take a while to recover from. I would wouldn't do any efforts in the week following something like that.
The first thing I would do is take a week off.
I'd take a week off minimum. If you still feel it, or it comes back after a ride, you need to stop. Read through the Long Covid thread and appreciate that any attempt at pushing through could have drastic consequences. 4 weeks of fatigue needs to be taken seriously. Your body is busy trying to right itself and telling you to rest.
Out of interest, do you remember when the tiredness started? I.e immediately, after the ride, during, or later?
@butcher - usual tiredness and leg aches straight after. Foolishly forced myself out on the bike a couple of days later, and two days after that and remember just feeling wrecked. Then I spent a weekend sleeping on a deflating airbed and, despite putting effort in to catch up on my sleep since, I've never really recovered. But I have got faster.
@thecaptain - it's pretty much how I always ride. I just can't help myself and I don't really do much that's structured on the bike, because I do it for fun. But I think I've perhaps been a bit too desperate to make a comeback.
HR and HRV are both good for detecting overtraining.
It does sound to me like you have it. Rest is the obvious first step, I'm sure there will be advice out there beyond that, I may have a book to look up if that might help?
Might be whatever lurgy that has been giving you a snotty nose for a number of weeks.
I've had something on/off since early March on top of hayfever (been taking Allevia) and my ongoing long covid, legs and knees have been weak along with more general fatigue. Frustrating as I was building up time on the turbo quite nicely in January and February without fatigue crashes.
Yes
started in January with a six week training programme that has a lot of zone 1 and zone 2 stuff in it, supplemented by intervals and hill reps. Then when that finished I’ve essentially been riding zone 3 with long zone 4/5 efforts which is just how I like to ride.
and...
I do all my training by feel and am not really willing to change that – no heart rate monitoring, no cadence meter, no indoor training, just a head unit with speed on it.
Why do you think you're in Zone whatever if you have no way of measuring that? I can't see how you can train using zones or currently methods without the associated tech.
I'm also don't have any of that stuff, but I just ride my bike.
If you're fatigued and feeling like you're on the edge of a cold it may be overtraining. I've got to that stage before but it was simply through ramping up both time and intensity too fast. As we get older we need more recovery time also.
Take a week off or just do soft pedalling recovery rides of under 45mins and you'll be back stronger. As they say, you get faster via the recovery from the efforts, not from the efforts themselves.
11h of Z3 and above per week sounds a bit crazy TBH. That would certainly break most people.
That's the sort of stuff i've done during a mid season when the racing dries up during the summer hols, but it's 11 hours out of 15-18. Against a back ground of months of 15+hours a week of structured training. And lots of rest.
I wish i still had an easy job and no kids...
How can you be training to any zones without a HR monitor or power meter?
Random number generator.
Also, having been involved in the coaching of a few riders who are "tech averse" it's amazing how wide of the mark they are on what training load they are actually doing, Vs what they think they are doing.
Get (at the very least) a basic HRM and work out zones/training load etc.
After you've had a week of soft tapping and lots of rest.
You're almost certainly over trained and run down.
On training by feel, I think it can work if you know where your talk-test Z2 upper limit is and are very familiar with how it feels, and you know what the max you can hold all out for 5 mins is (no skiving!). It's probably not the most effective way to train but I reckon I could get good endurance fitness from that alone. A HRM is more efficient and accurate though especially for keeping a lid on it when doing longer rides or wringing the last effort out in an interval session.
About four weeks ago I did a 130km mountain bike ride at race pace and since [ - ] I did about 100km during the week in the rain and the cold with the first ride two days after the big one.
And
I’ve been fairly snotty for the last few weeks so maybe I just have some lingering illness.
Are probably linked, like all the others I'd be taking some time off, get yourself well, and actively recover ( i.e. at most a pootle along the canal to keep your legs turning for an hour, but no more) Feed yourself properly, lay off the booze, get some quality sleep.
What do you do for work? That can have a big impact on energy levels. I'm currently doing manual labour while training for another job and finding days of digging and general labour far more exhausting than the hardest ride ive ever done. Had much more energy when I use to have a desk job.
Yes basically.
Take the week off or very easy, and see how you feel then as it might take quite a bit more time if you're really in a hole.
Fair enough, must have radged myself. I'll give it a week. I've had some periods of rest of about 5 days and hoped that would be enough.
On training by feel - I have ridden with a heart rate monitor in the past in a really structured way for short spells and I know how I feel in each zone very well, but really I just put those numbers here so people could get a feel for what load I was putting myself under. I don't go out thinking "I'm going to ride in zone 3 with some 4 then an hour at zone 2" - I just go and ride my bike, usually pretty hard, because I like doing it. And it's worked - I won two races last year, and was 3rd in another, and I didn't have to worry about numbers all the time.
On training by feel
Yeah agreed, I know myself well enough that I can know what HR zone I'm in without looking at the Garmin, and when I do, I'm accurate enough to be able to say "bottom of Zone three" or top of Zone one" or whatever it is.
The thing is, HR doesn't reflect how you feel when you are overtrained, that's why it is useful for detection (HRV even moreso IIRC).
I'd be giving it more than a week.
"I just go and ride my bike, usually pretty hard, because I like doing it. And it’s worked – I won two races last year, and was 3rd in another, and I didn’t have to worry about numbers all the time."
That's good. Guaranteed you could perform better with more structure and accuracy in training, still there's a lot to be said for not getting too obsessive over numbers. Training plans can suck the life out of it all. The old adage of 'to go faster first you have to slow down' is true though.
Rest now and start monitoring your efforts with a HR monitor. Most people go too hard when they should be in Zone 2. Currently doing about 12h a week in Z2 plus harder efforts. When I overtrained the wheels came off and I was sick all winter. It goes OK until it doesn’t. And recovery can take an age.