[Closed] Has the fatbike bubble finally burst ?

I'd be lying if I said/wrote that the random thought of seeing if anyone wanted to buy my default Wazoo fork and front wheel had not crossed my mind, once I have the Carbon fatty Fork installed.

Presumably you would would need a 29er frame as the recipient, with something like a 29x2.35" tyre installed on the rear.

I took my "proper" mountain bike out for a spin the other night to reflect on some of the comments made in this thread. This bike, which has all the bells and whistles of a modern mountain bike (full-suspension, lots of pivots, long, low, slack, big wheels, short stem, wide bars, Pike etc) has been sadly neglected since getting the fatbike. So, why would I choose to ride a heavy steel, rigid bike with 5" tyres over a modern trailbike?

Honeymoon period? Could be. New bikes are always fun, but as I approach 50 hours in the saddle that seems less plausible.

Attention seeking? Unlikely. I rarely meet another soul on most of my rides and that's the way I like it. In fact I actively seek routes where I'm unlikely to meet anybody and the attention is probably the thing I like least about a fatbike and what puts me off riding it on more popular routes.

Capability? That's definitely a factor. Big tyres coupled with a slack head angle and a geometry that doesn't change when you hit a bump does allow me to ride up and down stuff that I either can't or won't tackle on a regular bike. Plus you've got those places that you can't really ride a normal bike like, sand, snow and bogs.

Comfort? Yes, I was surprised by how uncomfortable my full-suss felt after the fatbike. Yes; it copes with bigger bumps much better, but regular trail chatter gets through much more.

Simplicity? Maybe; there is something satisfying about the lack of complex suspension. But I quite like tinkering in the shed, so that's not a big factor.

Efficiency? Yes, my Smuggler is reckoned to be a pretty efficient climber, but after riding a rigid bike for a while it was amazing how much I felt the suspension (even with pro-pedal on). It was probably just psychological, but it did feel a bit like riding through treacle as the suspension seemed to soak up some effort.

In the end through, I decided that I couldn't really put my finger on it. I just kind of enjoy the big heavy lump 🙂

That's a lot of words, so have some pictures to go with them.

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That's an interesting idea. Are you saying I should chuck a rigid fat fork and wheel on the front of my normal bike and have a play? No frame or drivetrain changes need. Might look fugly, but I'm tempted.

I'd disagree and say the opposite would be a far better bet. 60-70% of your weight is on the back wheel, that's where you need the float in winter.

@ RP - I also took out my 'regular' MTB (29er HT) yesterday to celebrate 30 years of my MTBing this month.

However, as good as it was, I found myself planning to do the same ride on my heavy old school fatbike ASAP!

Once again, your post will look like it's me under a different username if I showed my family 😆

Depends on where you ride. I turn right out of my house, have a mile of cart track and on to a moor. The track over the moor is a line on a map, so it's grass, bracken and rushes. You can't ride a skinny bike on it in the winter (I can't anyway).

Then it's onto a fast flowing trail centre where I'm just as fast (or slow) on the fat bike.

I won't be buying a skinny bike again.

And... road bike vs fat bike on my local mountain road loop the fat bike is only 10% slower...

Ah yes, the mystery of speed. I must admit, I've given up trying to make sense of this. My fatbike weighs 34lb and has 5" tyres. So, we can all agree that it's slow. I mean it has to be right? The fact that the Strava data contradicts this is obviously irrelevant 🙂

I ride the same stuff on both my bikes and tbh there's little that the fatbike's faster for, and lots of stuff it's miles slower. But that doesn't change the fact that it's just as fun- and different fun, not better or worse fun.

What Northwind said.

I ride my Fat Bike because it's different and I enjoy riding it, the rate of sales my have slowed but that doesn't mean there was a bubble.

Just to clarify, there are certainly segments where my fatbike is much slower. In particular, those long fast rocky descents, where I can just lay off the brakes on the Smuggler and let the suspension soak up the bumps. On the (rigid) fatbike I get tired and either back right off or just stop and admire the view for a bit. No less fun, but slower.

In fact, if you only care about downhill sections I'd agree with Northwind. There aren't many sections were the fatbike is faster (although plenty where it is pretty much the same) and some where it is a lot slower.

What shocked me though was the climbing ability. Despite the weight, the combination of grip, efficiency and tyres that roll over stuff just seems to translate into much faster climbing that I expected. I've even set PRs on smooth fireroad climbs. But then, I'm one of those weirdos who enjoys climbs every bit as much as descents.

I ride the same stuff on both my bikes and tbh there's little that the fatbike's faster for, and lots of stuff it's miles slower.

Other than local terrain, which for me I think suits a fat bike, I think fat bikes work better at slow speeds, so a faster rider would find a fatbike a handicap and a slower one wouldn't.

@roverpig - yet to get and ride the fat bike but I've got B+ wheels for the 29er and even that small increase in volume and tyreprint makes a difference despite the wheel/tyre combination being 1.5Kg heavier. If it's a loose or rocky surface then I'm about 10% faster on the plus tyres when climbing, it's the amount of extra grip/traction plus you don't get deflected from your intended line as much.

The undamped suspension effect can be, err, interesting. 😳

Logically, fat bikes make next to no sense for normal trail riding. And intuition tells us they'll be slow and draggy. Fortunately, there's more to MTBing than logic and intuition. 😀

Fortunately, there's more to MTBing than logic and intuition.

Fortunately we have Strava!

Logically, fat bikes make next to no sense for normal trail riding.

There seem to be at least two schools of thought often put forward by fans of fatbikes. On the one hand you've got those who argue that it's stupidly inappropriate and that's the appeal Northwind makes this case very eloquently, for example. On the other hand you've got a minority (see, for example, [url= http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/ten-reasons-why-a-fat-bike-should-be-your-only-bike/ ]Sanny's article[/url]) who argue that a fatbike is actually a perfectly viable option. I started in the first camp but am tending to drift to the second.

I think it depends very much on how and why you ride. For "proper" mountain bikers a "proper" mountain bike is the best tool. Anything else is sub-optimal. Maybe in a fun way, but sub-optimal all the same. But, for riders looking for something other than the adrenaline-fuelled gnar-fest that seems to be sold as the only true form of mountain biking, they can make a lot of sense.

Still, who wants sense 🙂

Totally unscientific, but by and large most people I know who have a history going back to childhood with the outdoors tend to be less inclined to try to paint fatbikes as a fad whose time is over.

I call non story, tbh. There are obvious fashions in the MTB industry. Not being on trend only makes you irrelevant to the easily led. At the end of the day, they're simply bikes that look different.

I'm with Roverpig - i prefer riding my fat bike to my other bikes. Why? So many different reasons!

I have a well sorted 160mm trail bike - and this is clearly better for big days out with big rocky descents. Maybe 6 times a year

I also have a Solaris - nice build. It should be the best tool for my local riding in Berkshire, Surrey & Hampshire

But i still choose the fatbike for 90% of my riding because its such a complete bike. I have to work harder to make it travel at the same speed as my pals - so great training

Its an absolute hoot on any downhill sections - imagine the nostalgia of riding something from the early 90s, but with proper brakes. I always end up grinning like a fool

Importantly though, i'm just as fast on local singletrack on the fat bike as on my 160mm bike (and certainly quicker than the Solaris)

The rigid bike rule - you have to work on your lines!

The fatty is brilliant for bikepacking and can climb anything - i really think i could climb a tree on it

Maintenance costs are tiny. One new drive train a year. My front tyre, a Nate, has over 4,000 miles on it. I've just replaced the rear Mammoth which had about 3,700 miles on it

Fork choice - tried Blutos - didn't like them and thought they ruined the concept of fat biking, so sticking to rigid

Downsides - its a pig on tarmac. However, i always avoid the road at all costs

I've got both an On-One Fatty and a Singular Puffin - the On-One really is a good bike - which is annoying considering the money i spend building the Puffin

Conclusion: I ride for fun, fat bikes are fun so its a perfect combination 🙂

As I posted (ages ago), who is the comment aimed at? It's not the sort of thing that is a typical press release to the bike media, sounds more like a warning to investors that things are going to get tough [b]for them[/b].

Away from the more specialised retailers like Charlie the Bikemonger fat bikes are definitely "niche". The bike shop just up the road from me now is one of the largest around and while a couple of years ago it had a handful of fat bikes in store now it has none. In their place are a handful of "plus" bikes. No doubt in a year or two these too will be gone to be replaced by the "new thing". (The shop probably has over a hundred mountain bikes on display to give some perspective) As far as I can remember they've never had tyres for fat or plus bikes in stock - "we can get them for you sir", well, yes, I can go on the web as well, that's not the point.

Like a lot of things there'll be aficionados who only ever ride fat bikes, those who've a fat bike in their collection and use it fairly regularly, those who've a fat bike and rarely if ever ride it and those who wonder what the fuss is/was about.

Like all bikes they are a compromise, if those compromises work for you then great otherwise it's "nothing to see here". In either case carry on riding your bike(s) and enjoying yourself.

Nail on head, whitestone.

The only thing that keeps me from fatbikes is the larger Q-factor, causing pain in the knees.
This makes me look at bikes like the Orbea Loki B+
A pity, as the Canyon Dude rigid fatty is a fantastic fatbike imho...

The Dude is glorious tbh, it feels like the initial design was done by a 5 year old,it's a proper caricature of a bike.

Have you tried the wider Q factor? My ICT is about as wide as they come and I was concerned that it might be a problem. Fifty hours in and all seems fine on that front though. In fact I did get some knee pain for the first time in ages after riding my normal bike again the other night. Could just be coincidence though and I do walk like a duck, which might be a factor 🙂

Boltonjons post sums it up for me

trout - Member
Boltonjons post sums it up for me

Yep, I can echo that too.

Cheers boys - glad we're on the same page 🙂

+1 for boltonjons post...

Ive ridden fat bikes for about 6-7 years now, back when you had to buy a frame and build one, and had 1 choice of tyre (endomorph)

I love them, they are not always to best , but are fun, I don't care about being quick, but for me they are the real All Terrain bike
bridleways about 6" deep in sand, no probs, snow - Im out riding in it, marshland, that too, heather, broken, stubble fields, beach cobbles, rocks, all fine my me

I've had

surly pugsley, 9zero7, carver Ti, surly moonlander, cannonade caad fat 1, single speed pugsley, hai bike fat six

At the moment, this hai bike (e bike) is my go to bike, its just amazing, just had new wheel set built onto orange hope hubs, camo hydro dipped rims, brake upgrade etc etc

I couldn't care if anyone elses bubble has burst, mine hasn't

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wow Cozz that's some peace of kit

My fat bike bubble hasn't burst either.

I have two fat bikes!

One is an e fat bike, and just bought a Sonder Vir Fortis fat bike, built up yesterday morning and had a ride around Afan in the sunshine.

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That carbon frame and rigid carbon forked Canyon Dude looks lovely to my strange tastes, but I could not justify (or afford tbh) to spend ~4x what I spent on the Wazoo.

If someone's bubble has burst and they want to swap their fat bike for my Giant TCX SLR2 I'll help them deflate 😆

After my brief relapse back into normal mountain bikes, it was fun to take the fatty back out again this weekend and I had something of an epiphany. I said that the only area where I feel the fatbike doesn't work (for me) is fast rocky descents. It's not just slower here, it's much much slower. However, it's not so much that I can't ride it fast over this terrain it's that it takes much more energy to do so. Mental and physical; picking lines and moving the bike around. Since I enjoy a good climb, I'm often knackered before I start the descent. So, after a few minutes on the fatbike I'm having to throttle right back just to get a rest.

I also realized that it's not just a case of the fatbike being slower on these rough descents than my full-suss. It's also much slower than my old (Solaris) hardtail, which is making me wonder about a Bluto.

While I contemplate the enormity of that decision, here is a picture from the weekend.

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I don't think so. Several of my mates ride fatties around the Surrey Hills. These are not weekend warriors, they ride hard and often and they love them. They ride everything. Might get one myself.

Holly thread resurrection !

I notice there are three high end fatbikes on the first page of the classified section today (none in my size fortunately). That's at the height of what might traditionally have been thought of as fatbike season.

There have also been comments from the Singletrack crew about the lack of fatbikes at shows (particularly compared with the last few years) and we're still waiting for anything to rival the Bluto (from a cost/performance perspective).

Obviously fatbikes aren't going to die, but those of us who like them probably aren't going to have too many new options (bikes or components) to drool over. Might be some bargains to pick up though 🙂

Maybe a better way of looking at it is that the "ooh! a new type of bike, I'll get one and see what it can do" effect has worn off and the early adopters have all got one or sold theirs on. People generally know now what a fat bike is good at and whether it fits in with their scope of riding.

roverpig - Member

Obviously fatbikes aren't going to die, but those of us who like them probably aren't going to have too many new options

Sure, but that's inevitable- just the transition from a growing market to a fairly full one. Possibly a little overfull, up til now it's been rapid expansion but sooner or later it'll turn fully into market share scuffling.

I don't think most nouveau fat riders think there's a "season" tbh, not one revolving around UK snow anyway... Probably for beach riding summer is better, for trail riding which is what gave the niche its growth, probably they're worst in winter after all. So except for a real snow bike I wouldn't read much into that.

If the fatbike bubble has burst I'll take a nice carbon bluto'd up one off your hands, I won't even charge.

It's a good point about the "season" in the UK. I did use our Scottish winters as an excuse (to myself) for getting the fatbike. But, in practice, I do very little "traditional" fatbiking as that isn't really the riding I enjoy. The fact that I can ride on snow, for example, is impressive. It can sometimes make the difference between getting a ride in and not and if I find a bit of snow on a regular ride I'll have a play in it. But in all honesty, given a choice, I usually pick the route with the least snow as mostly it's just a slog. The same with sand. A bit of beach in the middle of a ride is a laugh, but I wouldn't ride sand all day as it's mostly either a slog or a bit flat for my tastes.

Agree.

Snow, sand and comedy frame bags are very nearly every thing I hate about fatbiking. The first two are entertaining once in a while but can seriously up your maintenance costs.

My fatty is a simple trail HT, just with added traction - if it has a season it's the same one as every other MTB, one that depends on the rider.

Any bubble bursting has been the slowing of the curious I think. Possibly most people that wanted one have one, possibly On One just sold so many bikes that are now with second and third owners... There's a large Fat presence out there that isn't going away.

As indicated in the lightweight fat bike thread, Doverbike and myself were out in Finland for the Rovaniemi races. Generally the terrain isn't challenging in the sense that you aren't doing trail centre type trails (and going "off-piste" by even a metre is interesting! 😳 ), it's very much traditional style XC riding where fitness is important at least as much as being able to get air.

If your main interest is riding trail centres then a fat bike is really just an amusing sideline. You'll have fun but a far, far, better bike is the modern full suss: trail centre and FS development have gone pretty much hand in hand - riders get a better bike so trails become "boring", trails get toughened so they are interesting to those with the latest bikes, riders get a better bike, etc.

There'll be some model rationalisation as Northwind has said but the UK, as ever, is really just a small market in the general scheme of things, there's a big fat biking scene in the US but they've the terrain and weather to suit. Look at the number of endurance/ITT type races in the States vs Europe, roughly 20 to 1.

Edit: understand the comment about riding in sand increasing maintenance but riding in snow doesn't - proper snow that is when it's genuinely cold - the bike gets back from a ride in exactly the same state you set off.

Not for me at least 🙂

Converted my full suss trail bike to fat front, got fatty single speed/geared fully rigid bike, bought another frame to make it more trail oriented...

Life's good at the mo 🙂

Cheers!
I.

Search for Gartner Hype Cycle. I've linked to it previously. It refers to IT developments but applies to many other things, including consumer goods.

I don't own a fat bike, though I would if I could!

What I don't get is why quite a few people are willing, really willing the fat bike to die a death.

Why is that?

Poopscoop - Member
I don't own a fat bike, though I would if I could!

What I don't get is why quite a few people are willing, really willing the fat bike to die a death.

Why is that?

(a) It challenges too many preconceptions and prejudices. For years we've been chasing lighter, longer travel. Lots of that stems from the input of those that race, as if that had anything to do with the vast majority of riders. Fatbikes are mainly about fun, lots of folk don't get that.

(b) Too many fatbike messiahs proclaiming they are the best bike for every trail.

I notice there are three high end fatbikes on the first page of the classified section today (none in my size fortunately). That's at the height of what might traditionally have been thought of as fatbike season.

One of the original attractions of fatbikes was that they were somewhat isolated from the constant development cycles of other MTBs (being somewhat simpler). I know quite a few of us who bought in early are still running older bikes. You can also buy a decent fatbike for not much money. I therefore think that "high-end" fatbikes will struggle to attract any meaningful resale value.