[Closed] Grounds for a refund?

FFS Hora, go rigid. 😉

they have to be 'fit for purpose' but what that counts as I've no idea.

tbh, let's hope they don't check your track record with fork fettling on here - they might think it's soemthing you've done...

Wow you don't have much luck with forks do you! 😯

tbh, let's hope they don't check your track record with fork fettling on here - they might think it's soemthing you've done...

I've only fettled a set of Lyrik coils (sold to Peter Poddy) and an old set of Z1 FR's that royally ****ed up. 😕

Wow you don't have much luck with forks do you!

No. I've had issues with three Rockshox's now. All three were bought new by me.

FFS Hora, go rigid.

That sounds like an offer he can't refuse! 😯

Hora, you took your time banking my cheque didn't you! 😉

No. I've had issues with three Rockshox's now. All three were bought new by me.

But I thought it was only ever Fox forks that went wrong? 😕

Let me see now, I've had Rebas, Recons, Pikes x 2 and now Hora old Lyriks.

I've had 'issues' with 3 of those. I just don't go on and on and on about it! 😉

PP- I know but Ive had a set of Lyriks (coil) fail out of the box with a month, a set of Pike coils hydrolock/cart fail within 2months and now my lyrik air fail twice within 3 weeks. Ontop of this- I didnt realise that the stanchions are supposed to be the same colour. They arent. They are markedly different.

Fox all the way.
No issues ever.

I've had issues with three Rockshox's now. All three were bought new by me.

Time to change tack me thinks.

You're entitled to a full refund. No need to be difficult about it, just be polite and consice.

Time to change tack me thinks.

Agree.

You're entitled to a full refund. No need to be difficult about it, just be polite and consice.

Agree. The fact that I could drive circa 1-2hours this weekend and have a 'ruined' afternoon comparably on a product that I have no faith in.

PP- I know but Ive had a set of Lyriks (coil) fail out of the box with a month, a set of Pike coils hydrolock/cart fail within 2months and now my lyrik air fail twice within 3 weeks. Ontop of this- I didnt realise that the stanchions are supposed to be the same colour. They arent. They are markedly different.

My first set, the Rebas, I bought when Rebas first came out. Out of the box they leaked air from -ve to +ve dragging the fork down. New fork on warranty, which was more than I expected

The Recons cracked at the disc mount. New lowers on warranty.

My 2nd set of (coil) Pikes leaked oil into the lowers as yours did. They were under warranty but it was cheaper and less hassle to fix them myself

My other Pikes (air u-turn) were mostly fine. The Lyrics have slack bushings and will be off to TFT soon to be sorted, because that's about the only thing I can't do myself, and is just wear and tear 🙂

I dont know why I am doing this, but here goes...

Would you like to borrow my Maverick forks and wheel for a bit see if you like them? There is f all adjustment really, and also f all to go wrong. 125mm travel and a lock down for climbing, there is another knob to play with but I dont know what it does so dont bother.

I have never ever had a set of forks of any make, that I have had to do even one tiny weeny bit of maintenace or fettling on.. (was that the kiss of death?)

Maverick sc32 x2 1 new 1 2nd hand
Manitou minutes came on a bike (new)
Marazochi MX Pro
and just bought some 2nd hand 150mm Manitou Sherman Flicks.

To be honest of between all my mates I dont know 1 bloke who has had bad forks, and between them that covers the full spectrum of makes.

Quick question. What info do you need for small claims court (company trading name ok?) and how much is it? £100? Can you claim costs as well?

I'm just preparing some background info. When they say 'we cant/its in the hands' etc. I'll just advise Im going to the next step.

Ask them first Hora or your just winding yourself up over it all... If the forks are pants, then you should be on firm ground

or just wait for TJ to get online - he'll be all over this thread like a rash.

If I was the shop and you came straight at me with threats of court action etc, I would laugh at you and say go for it...

If you came to me and said look, these forks just are not working right, they have been in for a fix, and still not right, how would I go about a refund? I would do all in my power to sort your refund out.

I always remember the 3 Rs

Repair
Replace
Refund

So repair is what your LBS will probably want to do first. However, as it seems that the issues are with modular components which are changed-out when they fail, then really I'd only agree to a repair if it were carried out by proper fork work-shop, etc, but thats just me. Perhaps your LBS fits the bill, most round my way I wouldn't entrust to properly sort out a new fork.

Replacement seems to be the usual outcome, ime, and sounds as if you have tried this already with your LBS.

If however, you're still having problems, and the replacements you are given don't seem to be up to scratch (different coloured stancions, etc), then I reckon get a refund.

Imo, your LBS should bare in mind the critical nature of suspension forks and should be wanting to sort you out with a good, safe outcome, imo.

All this with the caveat that the faults are attributable to design and/or manuf flaws.

I've both Fox and Rockshox, had'em for years, all have been excellent.

Good luck
🙂

Tinsy you are right.

Replace is fine. Just not with the same fork/manufacturer now. I'm sick of Rockshox's.

Hora, its easier to try the nice method, you can always go crazy 8 bonkers and kill them all if nice doesnt work.. 🙂

Ime the retailer is obliged to address the issues via the 3 Rs, in the order I list them.

As Tinsy says, stay calm, both you and your LBS have more to gain from coming to an amicable solution.

What are you thinking of getting ?.

😉

What are you thinking of getting ?.

TBH anything that works. I'd pay double. Stressed all week then in my downtime I have to deal with frigging pogo-ing forks on a descent. So work all week, climb a barsteward hill then endure the best bit. **** that.

Hora, have you thought about taking up a hobby to take your mind off your hobby?

KINGTUT
[img] [/img]

Is that a schematic for your thought processes?

Google sale of goods act for the government guidance. (BIS)

Its refund / repair / replace - buyers choice assuming a manufacturing fault. It onerous on the retailer so they often try to get out of it but you have an absolute right to your money back on faulty goods.

If its less than six months old its assumed to be a manufacturing fault

Well. They've repaired once but due to the second failure in as many weeks I have no confidence in the brand now. So its replace.

Guys at the shop have been sterling and their service is always spot on. Its the ****in product at fault.

However just incase Comrade TJ can I count on your support if I have to form a picket?

"Fox all the way. No issues ever. I've had issues with three Rockshox's now. All three were bought new by me. Time to change tack me thinks"

my experience has been the opposite, never had any issues at all over many sets of RS in the last 3 years (a few revs, recons, 2 rebas and a pike), wheras the fox forks are the only ones i've had any (minor, sort-able) grief with. all good really, but i wouldn't say RS have issues in general. just the lyric 2steps and airs that seem to have a few reported issues. maybe try a revelation 150mm?

no one brand had it all right, lyrics aside RS seem to be the most UK-proof of the bunch at the moment. I don't think you can write off a whole brand due to this - fair enough maybe the fork model from your exp, but that's between you and the retailer (and the support they get from the RS distributor will play a big part in it all too)

hope you get it sorted anyway, fork faff is a pita..

[i]Its refund / repair / replace - buyers choice assuming a manufacturing fault.[/i]

Not sure about the order there. I post the following only to try to help others who may read this.

Below: Extract from EU directive 1999/44/EC

[i]Article 3

Rights of the consumer

1. The seller shall be liable to the consumer for any lack of conformity which exists at the time the goods were delivered.

2. In the case of a lack of conformity, the consumer shall be entitled to have the goods brought into conformity free of charge by repair or replacement, in accordance with paragraph 3, or to have an appropriate reduction made in the price or the contract rescinded with regard to those goods, in accordance with paragraphs 5 and 6.

[b]3. In the [u]first place[/u], the consumer may require the seller to repair the goods or he may require the seller to replace them[/b], in either case free of charge, unless this is impossible or disproportionate.

A remedy shall be deemed to be disproportionate if it imposes costs on the seller which, in comparison with the alternative remedy, are unreasonable, taking into account:

- the value the goods would have if there were no lack of conformity,

- the significance of the lack of conformity, and

- whether the alternative remedy could be completed without significant inconvenience to the consumer.

Any repair or replacement shall be completed within a reasonable time and without any significant inconvenience to the consumer, taking account of the nature of the goods and the purpose for which the consumer required the goods.

4. The terms "free of charge" in paragraphs 2 and 3 refer to the necessary costs incurred to bring the goods into conformity, particularly the cost of postage, labour and materials.

5. The consumer may require an appropriate reduction of the price [b]or have the contract rescinded[/b]:

- if the consumer is entitled to neither repair nor replacement, or

- if the seller has not completed the remedy within a reasonable time, or

- if the seller has not completed the remedy without significant inconvenience to the consumer.

6. The consumer is not entitled to have the contract rescinded if the lack of conformity is minor.[/i]

Of course, all this guff is open to interpretation, I'm no lawyer, but in all my dealings of this nature, I've had to go through a resonable process of rectification in some form before getting a refund, if indeed, it goes that far. ime the replacement has been fine.

Get your replacements if thats the way you want to go, your LBS might even throw in a minor discount, sorry I can't help on what fork to choose.

🙂

Luminous - there is no order - its the byuers choice which remedy they want

Article 3

Rights of the consumer

1. The seller shall be liable to the consumer for any lack of conformity which exists at the time the goods were delivered.

2. In the case of a lack of conformity, the consumer shall be entitled to have the goods brought into conformity free of charge by repair or replacement, in accordance with paragraph 3, or to have an appropriate reduction made in the price [b]or the contract rescinded with regard to those goods,[/b] in accordance with paragraphs 5 and 6.

Contract rescinded - you give the goods back they give you your money back.

Try looking at the sale of goods act stuff.

I've had issues with three Rockshox's now. All three were bought new by me.

were they they Revelations you sold me? 😡

TJ.

Whatever the SoG says, it should not conflict with the EU directive...

I haven't time to debate this.

Some places will go straight to a refund, no quibbling, if thats what you want, thats good, imo.

However, ime, some awkward outlets may wish to see what they can do to get out of their obligation.
At times like those, its good that people such the OP can turn to a forum and hopefully get useful advise.

I hope that now, the OP will have the confidence to request whatever outcome will resolve the issue to his satisfaction. Especially as the OP has been reasonable enough to allow the seller to attempt a repair.

imo the OP is in a good position and as Tinsy says, so long as the OP keeps his head, it should all work out fine. No need to stress-out over it.

😀

were they they Revelations you sold me?

No Lyrik, Pike then Lyrik. I USED TO BE a somewhat Rockshox whore.

ah good, they've been fine for me 🙂