If someone else passes me and I think I can hold them then my normal response would be to match their pace but stay 50-100 yards back. Enough to not be on their tail, but holding out for that moment when they’re finally confident that they’re far enough ahead that they can ease off and look over their shoulder at a clear road. At which point you grin and step on it. But then I am an evil bastard 🙂
To be fair these days I mostly don’t have that option. I got passed by three people last weekend and even though I was feeling ok (by the low standards of recent years) there’s not much you can do about it on a singlespeed.
my normal response would be to match their pace stay 50 yards back—enough to not be on their tail, but holding out for that moment when they’re finally confident that they’re far enough ahead that they can ease off and look over their shoulder at a clear road. At which point you grin and step on it.
Juvenile behaviour and male (I'm going to guess) competitiveness at its worst. If you've not both got numbers you're not racing. And I fully intend to grow out of doing exactly the same sometime before my 60s.
Yeah I do ride intervals fairly often and feel quite self-conscious about blasting past people and then having them catch me 5mins later when I'm soft-pedaling at a crawl. Even worse if 30 seconds after that I have to step on the gas again.
Feel like I should procure custom jersey with "INTERVALS" written on the back of it or something.
And I fully intend to grow out of doing exactly the same sometime before my 60s.
Don’t try and pretend that the truth isn’t “I’m already struggling to do this and I know it won’t be long before I just have to admit defeat and pretend I was never interested in this damned game.” And you won’t need to ask how I know that’s the truth 😉
As a complete Roady for years I don't get the worry about people being on your wheel. Not urban though as I think op was talking about, that's daft. I also don't understand why if someone comes past a bit quicker you wouldn't get on their wheel for a bit and share the work. I can leave a bigger gap than I would with someone I trust and I'll soon decide if I can either not keep up or don't like their riding.
If someone else passes me and I think I can hold them then my normal response would be to match their pace but stay 50-100 yards back. Enough to not be on their tail, but holding out for that moment when they’re finally confident that they’re far enough ahead that they can ease off and look over their shoulder at a clear road. At which point you grin and step on it. But then I am an evil bastard
And this is just plain strange!
Lots of interesting views here. My learnings are:
* Get insurance.
* If someone is tailgating for no good reason and hits my wheel I will treat it as a car accident. They put themselves in the predicament and only have themselves to blame. I am too nice if I give them the benefit of the doubt on seeing a power meter.
* If someone is in a bib / funny hat combo and doing sprints, overtaking me quickly, then slowing down then that's all good with me... As long as they don't sit on my wheel. They are doing it for a reason.
* Those bike rule signs should be everywhere 🙂
* Do I need backup insurance for my insurance in case a BCA member decides to take me out Hmmmmmm.
* Can't wait to be able to travel for a proper off-road ride.
As far as I’m aware the “rules” apply to all ways, not just carriageways, so keeping left is the technically correct approach even in bridleways etc.
Obviously that doesn’t really happen consistently in reality so you need to be pragmatic, but it makes sense to default to keeping left.
But where are these 'rules'? I'm not sure they exist in any concrete form. And that's the problem. Another issue is people from overseas, where everyone drives on the right, so they have got used to cycling on the right. Takes a while to adjust. I've almost come a cropper in several other countries! 😀
I also don’t understand why if someone comes past a bit quicker you wouldn’t get on their wheel for a bit and share the work.
For me, partly because I don't know them well enough to ride right on their wheel, where you get a decent rest, but mostly because I'm riding to get stronger and sitting on a wheel isn't helping that.
There's also the view - I ride mostly nice country lanes so I'd rather look at a nice landscape than a lycra clad arse!
But where are these ‘rules’?
Er, the Highway Code. Rule 160.
There’s also the view – I ride mostly nice country lanes so I’d rather look at a nice landscape than a lycra clad arse!
Depends on the arse, mine is fabulous!!
For me, partly because I don’t know them well enough to ride right on their wheel, where you get a decent rest
You don't need to ride right on someone's wheel to get a good effect. You can ride offset a bit and leave a decent gap and save energy
On MTB trails if I catch someone up (ie a descent) then I will stop and wait for them to clear. unless they are really, really slow, when I normally ask if they would mind pulling over in the next decent place.
I do not think any rider has the right to demand another rider perturb their course though, so I try to ask as respectfully as possible. Nothing pisses me off more than when I am on a blue trail somewhere with my kids and some arse shouts rider and expects everyone to scatter whilst he gets his best time.
Road biking on the other hand, sounds complex...
On MTB trails if I catch someone up (ie a descent) then I will stop and wait for them to clear. unless they are really, really slow, when I normally ask if they would mind pulling over in the next decent place.
I do not think any rider has the right to demand another rider perturb their course though, so I try to ask as respectfully as possible. Nothing pisses me off more than when I am on a blue trail somewhere with my kids and some arse shouts rider and expects everyone to scatter whilst he gets his best time.Road biking on the other hand, sounds complex…
You've hit the key difference. On a trail, the rider behind is the stronger rider as they have managed to catch up. No the catchee doesnt have to immediately leap clear to stop the other person slowing, but at least some acknowledgment is nice.
On the road (steep climbs excluded) the leader is the stronger rider, and the unwanted follower is "weaker" as they are getting a tow. Of course, they managed to catch up in the first place, making it all the more odd.
Sounds like you just go a twerp behind you. Most riders overtake at the same width as a car. Wheel sucking without asking is just rude and should be treated as such. If you catch someone, it's generally polite to sit off the wheel to the side so more visible - sometimes it's not possible to go straight past without powering past - also looking like a d**k.
Depend where you live and ride. Some areas are rife for wheel sucking ****ttery (looking at you London Dynamo), others not so much.
As for the saying hi - there was a thread once that said saying hi while cruising past was considered bad form, either way, I generally go for the lift of the hand on the bar and wave/acknowledge.
I don’t get the worry about people being on your wheel.
Because your safety is in their hands. I will never allow anyone I do not know and trust to sit on my wheel and I have called folk out for it before. I usually do the same as when i am driving - just slow down until they pass.
The worst thing for me is when you pass someone and they get all competitive and speed up. I had this two weeks ago, passed a rider who had pulled in for something, I slowed to pass some horses a few miles later and he came tearing past us all. I then caught and passed him at a junction, only for him to come past again huffing and puffing so I sat back for a few miles until he blew up. Needless to say I felt like a total hero.
Ooh I ****ing hate that. Go past me, no problem. Then, as I'm keeping to my own steady rhythm, they slow down, so I pass again, then repeat. And each time I pass them, I need to speed up just a little to be able to pull in and avoid being right out in the middle of the road. Really ****ing irritating. Also, a more 'urban' thing; people at lights, who make a point of elbowing their way through to the front of a 'queue' of cyclists, then when the lights change, wobble away really slowly, in a high gear, holding us all up. So we all have to then get past them. Only to then have them do exactly the same thing at the next set of lights. ****s.
Because your safety is in their hands. I will never allow anyone I do not know and trust to sit on my wheel and I have called folk out for it before
Exactly. I just pull over, and tell them to pass me or **** off. I can't abide having some total stranger sitting right on my back wheel, especially on busy roads. So dangerous. ****ing roadies.
Exactly. I just pull over, and tell them to pass me or * off. I can’t abide having some total stranger sitting right on my back wheel, especially on busy roads. So dangerous. * roadies.
Just bunnyhop the next pothole you come across. Problem solved 😉
Just bunnyhop the next pothole you come across. Problem solved 😉
And the offroad equivilent... I would never do the following outside of a XC race situation...
take the deliberate difficult line, jump some roots, pump hard right into something etc. Listen to them drop back as they mess it up.
When I'm the follower in this situation, I stay a few metres back, lets me conserve energy, spot the obstacles, and I get a little run up when the next passing place appears, just like driving a car.
I sit on people's wheels and they sit on mine all the time, completely normal part of roady culture round here. When we get to a town we all leave a bit more space, back on the open road and the gap's reduced.
As for the saying hi – there was a thread once that said saying hi while cruising past was considered bad form
Really? Maintaining good form must be a right PITA.
I sit on people’s wheels and they sit on mine all the time,
Yes, but at the very least you need to let them know that you are doing it & to see if they object.
Just bunnyhop the next pothole you come across. Problem solved
I did once 'brake test' the idiot sitting right on my wheel. But then I felt bad for him almost losing control and crashing. Fortunately, he didn't, but I wouldn't do that again. Much rather pull over and let them past, than do something deliberately that might cause them injury. He didn't get back on my wheel again though.
I've had a few people silently slide onto my rear wheel when I've not been riding hard or paying attention. It really bugs me. If you're fast enough to catch up, then overtake, don't sit in my draft and say nothing.
I have to confess that on the occasion that I've noticed this without turning around (shadow or clatter of someone elses bike) I will gradually increase speed without obviously doing so and will power up hills without leaving the saddle until one of us cracks.
I had a chap do it on the BBRP just a few weeks ago so did this and broke the tow. He kept up with me but was a good 400-500m back. I'm delighted to say that when he finally introduced himself as we got into Bath, he was so exhausted that he could barely talk. I'd had a few seconds to compose myself and appear (I really wasn't) nonchalant.
there was a thread once that said saying hi while cruising past was considered bad form
Oh, a whole thread full of sore losers 🙂
I did once ‘brake test’ the idiot sitting right on my wheel.
Not sure who is the bigger idiot tbh.
This weekend A bloke caught me on a slight down hill, I caught him on the next rise sat on for a bit, he seemed happy enough and signalled hazards etc. I sat offset and further back than normal. Followed him for about 500m then we turned different ways I said enjoy your ride. Are we both idiots?
I’d rather look at a nice landscape than a lycra clad arse!
I've been single so long that I'll take the view of the arse.
Oh, a whole thread full of sore losers 🙂
Pretty much! 😂 I think in fairness, it was on road.cc which probably tells you all you need to know!
I always pass (same or opposing directions) with a nod of the head, wave of the hand or an ‘areet’! Think it’s quite rude not to acknowledge other riders depending on situation. Don’t have to say hi, as sometimes especially when climbing you’re breathing out your backside!
Probably upsets those who take ‘the rules’ seriously rather than light hearted entertainment!
I always pass (same or opposing directions) with a nod of the head, wave of the hand or an ‘areet’!
Me too. I have observed that the cyclists most likely to ignore me are mtbers.
I have to say there just seems to be a lot of miss-understanding on this thread.
I don't consider myself a seasoned Roadie but I understand the basics of drafting/being drafted and sharing the work in a small group/pair or with a total stranger, it makes total sense IMO. You don't really need a whole conversation and introductions/resumes you just read the rider, their body language and movement on the bike, give a nod if/smile if they look round, you and can normally tell pretty quickly how things will/won't work...
If you pass me (because I was dawdling or you've been sitting on my wheel for a mile already or whatever) and I reckon I can hold your wheel for that free 20% aero benefit I will. If I can't I'll just let you spin off into the distance. Some people want to Race, others want to tap out their pace and if you're lucky its a reasonable match for your own and you can both benefit by taking turns. I can't really see the issue.
I think it's just a bit of nooby nervousness isn't it?
Some of you are finding yourselves riding in closer proximity to other riders, where you've had more space (by necessity) on the trails and have just not dealt with this kind of thing before. different environment, different rules and practises but it's not malicious. As for shouting "On your Right!" I might off-road on the ravel bike on a bridal path but not on the road, it's generally not needed. I've seen some road groups out before where every other minor bit of information is yelled up and down the group "Car Passing!" "Pot hole!" "Junction Ahead!" it's a bloody shambles and looks more fraught than simply expecting everyone in the group to pay some attention...
Drafting with someone isn't tricky it's a minor trust exercise, just be aware of your surroundings, try to stay smooth and not be erratic, if leading point out potholes and other upcoming dangers if you can, look back and signal well ahead if you're going to make a turning, if trailing concentrate, read the rider ahead and look out for potential upcoming issues they might react to and just keep sufficiently back from their wheel, giving yourself the space you think you'll need to react if they suddenly slow/turn/brake...
its not a minor trust issue. Your safety is totally dependent on their decisions and awareness.
I don't much care for the assumptions of shared "cycle culture". I'm fine with being friendly to other people i see out on their bikes but it's not an invitation to be weird!
I've never ridden in a group and don't really want to, not interested in aero benefits and would rather not have strangers deciding to ride with me without asking.
However I will sometimes speed up and see if I can keep up with people that overtake me (at a distance). It's not posturing it's just fun.
I think it’s just a bit of nooby nervousness isn’t it?
I guess we're all less awesome than you.
Drafting with someone isn’t tricky it’s a minor trust exercise
Well, the original question involved someone who hadn’t even made their presence known, so in that case it can’t possibly be a minor trust issue if there’s apparently no-one there to put trust in.
If both people know the score and are happy to accept the risks posed by each other then that’s another thing, but whether it’s wise is another questions till. I don’t ride I groups often, so if some random was on my tail while I’m out for a solo ride there’s a chance I might forget they’re there and stand up—which of course sends my back wheel into them and maybe over they go. My fault or theirs? I’d rather not get into it in the first place. Happy to tuck in with friends, but rarely with any old Rod, Jane or Freddy.
Drafting is like sex: fine with mutual consent, wrong without it, and risky with unknown strangers. And awkward if you unexpectedly stand up in the middle of it.
I guess we’re all less awesome than you.
He's right though. Especially about groups of gringo roadies screaming their heads off at every manhole cover.
No problem with someone sitting on my wheel on the road - nice if they let me know they're there but I'd far rather they actually sat on my wheel than slightly offside, that way I know they're not overlapping.
Wouldn't generally sit on the wheel of someone I don't know - if I've caught them then why wouldn't I simply continue past unless I was creeping into a block headwind, and I wouldn't want to make anyone uncomfortable. I'll always say hello as I pass though, as we're two humans in close proximity engaged in the same activity. Going past in silence would be weird. Since covid I probably pass competent-looking people with a bit more space than I previously did.
Off road a simple "behind you mate" if someone I've caught up with hasn't heard me seems to work. If I know someone's in front of me on a descent and I'm likely to catch them I'd rather hang back a few secs, then we both get a nice clear run.
OP's collision - quick lifesaver check over your shoulder before avoiding the hole. Granted that's not always possible but it usually is. Next time it might be a bigger, heavier moving object there.
Drafting is like sex
Maybe in your chaingang Bez, but not in mine!
<shudder>
Your safety is totally dependent on their decisions and awareness.
Only if you are doing it wrong
Balderdash piffle and poppycock. You are relying on them not to make a mistake
He’s right though.
Is not compatible with
Wouldn’t generally sit on the wheel of someone I don’t know –
I used to do a lot of road racing and quite content to sit in a bunch of 60 riders on a descent at 60kph, but there's a huge difference between your average road racer and someone you casually meet whilst out riding. I would be reluctant to follow someone I don't know - like someone stands up on the pedals, drops back a few feet and you run into the back of them, manoeuvres without looking, or shimmies around a pothole leaving you no room to avoid it. I'd much rather ride alongside if the road is suitable or simply ride on my own. I have at times quite happily towed someone at 20mph for hours on end just for company at the cafe, or to give them a good work out.
I would be reluctant to follow someone I don’t know – like someone stands up on the pedals, drops back a few feet and you run into the back of them, manoeuvres without looking, or shimmies around a pothole leaving you no room to avoid it.
Indeed. And it's a bit presumptuous to expect the person in front to modify their riding because an uninvited stranger is in their personal space.
You are relying on them not to make a mistake
No, you still have eyes and you can ride slightly off centre to see what's happening. When leading you just have to ride smoothly. It's not appropriate in urban settings but fine elsewhere. I usually drop off group rides as we get back into town as people like to race to the finish cafe and it gets silly at times.
I have had decades of group riding experience and have only been taken out once and that was by someone to the side of me who lost the front wheel on gravel, those following avoided us ok. This includes a number of rides I can see not to trust who I either keep ahead of or give more space too.
like someone stands up on the pedals, drops back a few feet and you run into the back of them, manoeuvres without looking, or shimmies around a pothole leaving you no room to avoid it.
It's usually easy to pick them and give them more space. There's only a handful of riders I ride with regularly who I will draft right up close and inline with.
Er, the Highway Code. Rule 160.
"Rule 160
Once moving you should
keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road"
This appears to only apply to public highways. I'm curious about what 'rules' apply to other places people might ride bikes, such as canal towpaths, bridleways, forest paths etc. As far as I am aware, there are no such rules. Happy to be enlightened though.
it’s a bit presumptuous to expect the person in front to modify their riding because an uninvited stranger is in their personal space
I would say adhere to rule one or ask them not to do it, rather than brake check or whatever was suggested on the last page.
I would say adhere to rule one or ask them not to do it, rather than brake check or whatever was suggested on the last page.
Rule number one would be to ask first, it's just good manners.
Rule number one would be to ask first, it’s just good manners.
Do you want a written application and how far in advance would you like it?
