[Closed] Going back to a hardtail, any experience?

Got a specialized enduro recently bought a pace rc529. Great fun, probably as fast. Definitely helps when going back to fs.

It's not about who is fastest, it's about who has the most fun.

My HT is most definitely fun and keeps me working and thinking hard.

I've gone back and forth between full sus and hardtails since the late 90s - and there's just something I love about the directness of a hardtail.

Last time around, I went from a slack-ish 27.5 bouncy bike with 130mm travel and a dropper to an anorexic carbon 29er nu-skool XC hardtail with a fork lockout and no dropper. I reasoned that I may not have the fitness to have a bike like this in 10 years' time and, after 1.5 years with it, I am absolutely loving it.

Go steel. Love my Switchback. HT without the harsh edge and vibration of Aluminium.

I have a 5th generation Cotic Soul ,as well as a Orange 4 ,
And I bloody love it 😊. Always liked hardtails.

I seem to says this about five times a week at the moment, but the Transmitter is kick-arse brilliant. The plus tyres add a bit of cush and loads of grip. It also, oddly for an aluminium bike, isn't a harsh ride at all. The carbon one feels stiffer tbh.

I've pinged around between full sus and hardtail for years now and the Transmitter feels like a strange sort of mid-point between the two.

I love hardtails. Really you need both. Keep the foxy and get a decent cheapish hardtail for when the mood takes you. Something like a vitus should be fine.

Go Fat.

Directness of a HT comfort of FS.

Is two bikes a logistical impossibility?

Try to keep both if you can. I have both - a bit bouncy bike and a fairly playful hardtail. They both have their place depending on mood and where I’m riding. My lower back won’t tolerate the ht for longer rides so I tend to use it on fasts but short blasts. It is way more playful than the full suss - but if I were to have only one bike it would be full suss. Probably not the one I’ve got as that’s a bit full on for mellower riding - it’d probably be a 140f/130r travel fs with fairly sensible slack ish geometry.

About the time you had the seatpost issues I bought a used 160mm Mega frame (you probably sparked it off) and stuck on some 160mm Pike's

I took stuff off my T-130 and built it up... and kept my HT...

Went REALLY fast down some DH runs for a while before feeling like the fun was sucked out...specifically I was doing drops I KNEW were drops but the bike just sucked them up...felt like the rear wheel never left the floor

Went back to the HT (as no bits on the T-130) and did both then ended up buying a used Bird Aeris MK1.5 frame....(well XMAS stuck for present and Jnr has a XS and was how cool if we have the same)

So the Aeris is 160/140-150 and I usually ride it at 160/140 which feels way more engaging than the Mega but still saves my ass. I ride bike parks with it usually on 140... and just spent Sunday @FOD uplift with it on 140 doing everything... I honestly doubt I'd do the GBU drop on a HT... I mean lots of people can... just not me!

Other than a very specific XC type blast I nearly always take the Bird.... that seems like a sweet spot for me... though it does feel nice to get the direct HT feel every so often its nice because it's a change. Being over 50 the FS feels kinder to my old bones... so I even end up doing Swinley on it....

Just a suggestion but why not get a cheap used HT... see how it goes???
If you are leaving the Foxy at home after a month or so sell it.

Yes wise words. I am a bit of a weirdo with bikes. I should have both really. But while I love riding I also, and almost independently, enjoy building the bikes to my taste with my preferred components and I can't justify duplicating them. So I will switch and keep the Foxy frame in case I don't get on and sell next spring if I don't miss it...
I hear you about steel as I used to have a Nivacrom Sunn Exact but I feel that their inherent comfort is now taken care of by the tyres anyway.
As for fat bikes, sorry but they are the worst of both worlds for me.

I think this depends on your preferences as a rider.

I'm lucky enough, through judicious mis-application of my life priorities, that I have a nice 'Enduro' full susser (I'd call it an aggro trail bike) and a nice hard-tail of similar pretensions.

There's no doubt in the really lairy stuff that the full susser outstrips the performance of the hardtail by some margin, but truthfully, thats only 10-15% of my riding, comprising BPW, the Lakes, Afan (just) and Spain. The other 85-90% of my riding is more local. These places include the Mendips, Quantocks, Exmoor, Dartmoor, Cwm Carn, Brechfa, Ashton court, and a few smaller nameless woods and places. I've learned over the years that I prefer a hardtail for these places most of the time (except for the dryest points of the year), for reasons, I think, I am still grappling with.

My logic is thus.

Proper MTB is hard. It requires effort; tolerance of dirt, blood and bruises; being wet, being cold, being sun-burnt and overheated; being bug bitten and lacerated by vegetation and of being outside of your comfort zones. There is enjoyment and satisfaction to be found in the pursuit of proper MTB because it is hard.

Further, it requires cardio vascular fitness, strength, poise and balance. It requires you to singularly focus your mind and to be on your A-game. There is enjoyment and satisfaction to be gained here also.

Then there's the out and out speed, fun, endorphins, technical interest, progression, etc...

I've learned that if I ride my ridiculously competent full susser on terrain that 'doesn't qualify' then I kind of feel a bit disappointed with the ride - something missing, if you will. I think that's because a combination of all the factors I've listed above together isn't right.

There is an argument that one should 'just ride faster' but in my experience, this is just one aspect that some people enjoy more than others. I'm not slow, but neither am I super-fast and I'm happy enough with how fast I am. What seems to be important for me is a level of trail feedback so that I know I'm mtbing. I can find that more often on less lairy terrain using a hardtail, but on the full susser I need to push into more technical terrain because otherwise is steals too much from the ride.

TLDR - My enjoyment comes from trail feedback within certain parameters - its easier to find that on more gentle terrain using a hardtail.

Oh, and riding a hardtail seems to allow me to extract more from an FS when I do use it.

a hardtail will keep you honest.

I regularly switch between the two and for the most part, but not always, play to there strengths rather than there weaknesses.

Quite different beasts I'd say. When going back to a HT the obvious benefits are it feels like an out of the saddle sprinting machine, is a touch lighter, climbs better, pumps & jumps better and is generally more responsive to ride.

However the benefits stop there. As soon as you hit rugged rocky trails, case big jumps, trails with deep holes, ruts, square edges and try to crash through rock gardens/boulder fields at the same speed, the back end bucks like a bronco and you end up flatting in short order. If you are an aggressive rider, you end up needing a high volume DH casing (DD bare minimum) and insert for the rear. Being clipped in helps to stop your feet getting blasted off the pedals and your shins turned to minced meat, but doesn't stop your ankles being ground to dust!

So in conclusion depends what your bread and butter riding is, how you tackle trails and how you plan on deploying the little scamp.

I don't really think about it that much (unlike some, obvs), but most of the time a full-sus is better for me - however there are occasions when my hardtail is just what the doctor ordered. Even on the same trails.

Wouldn't like to have to choose one or the other exclusively, but if I did it would be a full sus for sure.

Not much to add to the above (hardtail and fully rigid here), but have a think about L rather than XL for the transmitter.

People more knowledgeable than me (eg Dan at Stanton) reckon a long reach is not as desirable on a hardtail as it is on a FS. For a number of reasons. I'll see if I can find a link.

Definitely worth having both - I quite enjoy the choice of either a 29 HT or 27.5 FS and it also makes maintenance windows (aka can't be bothered fixing it, or broke it trying to fix it) more manageable.

I didn’t really make a conscious decision to go back to a HT but having both I realised I hardly ever rode the FS. It wasn’t a plan , I just enjoyed riding the Ht more. I am currently going through the ‘ Ooh I want a new bike ‘ thing and I am fairly sure it will be a new HT

I ride all my bikes only for fun. The pace can be type 2 fun but is mainly a hoot, whereas the enduro is pin yet ears back fun.

Nedrapier, L might be the one actually. I always go L at 6ft and the Sonder is only recommended at 6ft2 for XL.
Problem is standover, which I never had to deal with. Its 800mm on the Sonder. How do I check that's gonna work?

How do I measure myself? I am 50 so bits might not be where they used to be, is that a factor?

My inseam seems to be 85xm but with my trousers on and only if I push the bits on the side. Sorry for TMI but it's a bit confusing. The XL more or less replicate the Foxy but as highlighted, perhaps it doesn't need to.

I've had both and switched between both for years as well. I've currently got a 2017 remedy and had a 120mm Saracen hardtail which I sold because its looks rather than the fact It didnt ride well. I bought a 29 er trek Superfly to fill its void. The Superfly is full XT and 1 x , tubeless and climbs like no other bike yet if someone offered me a decent Crush or Whyte 905 Id bite their hand off.
Im convincing myself the Superfly will be next years big Highland loop Bivvy bike. 😉

Hardtails rule. Always rode one alongside having the full suss bike for more skills compensation when needed, IMO Riding a full bouncer full time lures you into letting the bike do all the work whereas you have to pick your lines better ect on a hardtail. I've just gone steel and would recommend it, nowhere near as harsh as the ali HT's I've had previously

Dam you forum for stealing my reply by logging me out.

In short...

Switch between HT and FS fairly regularly. Never really have an issue.

I tend to choose on the basis of weather, the hard tail takes a bucket load less cleaning and maintenance and has a lot more mud clearance than the FS. OR on the basis of the type of ride I fancy.

Hard tail season just began in earnest!

If I had a 29r hardtail with 120mm fork I'd probably not ride either of the other two though. I reckon that's probably my "one-bike" sweet-spot (but don't tell Mrs G-D that such a thing is possible).

I always end up going back to a hardtail and massively regretting it. People always say it’s more fun but I find the opposite- to me it’s more fun having a bike that gives you the confidence and ability to go full pelt at everything. I hate the unbalanced feel of a hardtail especially with bigger forks which makes the bike really divey on the front end. Fully rigid or fully suspended for me!

I don't have an issue swapping between them, it's just my FS is a bazzilion times better than the HT. Nothing wrong with the HT as such but doesn't inspire confidence in the same way on the way down, as well as not being much faster on the way up.

I now ride at stupid speeds but probably don’t enjoy it as much.

I've just looked at a couple of rides. On my HT I'm in top 25% at Laggan, BPW and local rides.

The only place I'm noticing I'm slower is at Comrie Croft and Rim Dinger at BPW.

I'm having a ball, topped with a smug icing of I'm faster on a HT... 💪👍😉

Try to keep both if you can. I have both – a bit bouncy bike and a fairly playful hardtail. They both have their place depending on mood and where I’m riding. My lower back won’t tolerate the ht for longer rides so I tend to use it on fasts but short blasts. It is way more playful than the full suss – but if I were to have only one bike it would be full suss

+1.  This is why I’m selling my race HT and buying a big tyre 27.5 slack HT.  I’ll be using my Spark for FS and racing.

Rode nothing but FS for a few years then got an “aggressive” HT and the FS has been locked away for about 2 years now. Way more fun on a HT going up and downhill.

Went the opposite of most people.

I'd say the one bike I regret selling is my Hightower. I sold the frame and swapped it for a Pace RC529. The Pace is probably the best climbing bike I've ridden with the long front and long chain stays.

Smoother descents were really good and it was a fast bike for a hard tail. Anything rocky or rooty though and I hated it. The front would plough through (150mm, 29er) anything, but then the back would get hung up on every minor imperfection. I probably expected too much from it.

It certainly didn't have that "springy steel feel" that people talk about. It was no comfier than the carbon Reaction or Aluminium Meta I used to have.

I've gone back to a HT for my XC bike as I think they make more sense with shorter travel. I would love to try something like a BTR with slack angles and a 120mm fork.

I don’t really think about it that much (unlike some, obvs), but most of the time a full-sus is better for me – however there are occasions when my hardtail is just what the doctor ordered. Even on the same trails.

I don't REALLY think about it, indeed when I do it usually turns into a snap heart decision anyway.
Nearly every time whichever I rode last rekindles my love of the other but I'll find myself taking the wrong logical choice just to ride the other.

I'm full sus-less these days. The Fatbike pretty much killed it off a couple of years ago. I sold the full sus a few months back after having used it maybe twice in 2 years. It was great in the right situation but that situation just wasn't the norm. The full sus was great but you really needed to get it up to speed to make it work, It did the mega and it was great at that (although I would definitely do it on a hardtail) but elsewhere it just feels slow and soggy. I get the idea that other full sus bikes are more pedal friendly but still, Hardtail just gives me a lot more satisfaction and makes me feel more like I'm doing more of theu work. I'm based in the Exeter area so local spots are Haldon and Woodbury and then you have Dartmoor, Quatocks, Cardinham etc... truth be told the fatbike was faster both up and down pretty much everywhere for me and further more substantially more fun in the process. It only lost out in the tastiest of off piste bits but a suspension fork closed that gap pretty substantially as well. Now I'm on a 29+ Trek Stache and it's probably even better again. I've always been a hardtail person at heart I think and I can safely say there is nothing that I would not ride on a hardtail that I would on a fullsus.

Each to their own really I guess. One thing I would say which is fairly obvious is that the skill level of the rider is far more important than the bike being a hardtail or full sus and I think a hardtail (talking more long travel/aggressive hardtail here) does require a more confident and aggressive rider to get the most out of it. With a full sus there is an element of hanging on and letting the bike go where as a hardtail requires more manhandling and physicality.

Summary: Hardtail as your only ride for the win.

John

I have a Foxy Carbon and a Bird Zero AM with pretty much the exact same spec - bars, grips, pedals, gears, brakes, wheels and tyres. I use the Foxy for longer days out and the Bird for quick blasts and commutes to work via the local trails. When heading out to new trails or not so familiar ones, I will always take the Foxy.

My two points are:

When starting out on a bike I haven't used for a few rides, I always think, "wow this is ace, why didn't I go out on this bike last time".

This might be a bit inflammatory, but when out on the Bird and surrounded by others on quality FS bikes, I always feel somewhat inferior like the others are looking down on me.

but when out on the Bird and surrounded by others on quality FS bikes, I always feel somewhat inferior like the others are looking down on me.

You ok hun?