I quite enjoy Hard Tail Party's reviews on YouTube. He can be brutally honest about stuff and only seems to endorse things he uses daily and really likes.
The recent first look on the Pole hartail frame was quite honest.
I watched a Remi Metallier vid last night (doing all the things I taught him, obvs), and the product placement was a single line "Presented to you by Gro-Pro" at the end of his introduction. Which I thought was pretty classy, as these thing go.
I feel a bit for content providers, It must be pretty hard to make a living from it. The occasional guff about a set of tyres or a helmet is not the end of the world in the grand scheme of things.
I don’t mind product placement in otherwise good content, it’s when stuff is presented as an ‘independant’ review, that irks.
Nick C
The occasional guff about a set of tyres or a helmet is not the end of the world in the grand scheme of things.
Agreed - I've no issue in content creators being upfront about the support they're receiving. E.g. "We were sent this by XX Corp to review, and it's actually pretty good" or "This year we're being sponsored by YY Industries, so we'll be telling you a lot more about their products".
It's when the product placement is presented under the guise of 'news' that I tune out.
Is there a YouTube channel/YouTuber that is balanced and honest?
Yep, Ola England. Admittedly you need to enjoy Swedish metal rather than bikes but he was talking about it just yesterday. If a company wants to send him stuff he tells them he will be honestly reviewing it and up to them. Some didn't acknowledge that, he gave bad review and then now don't send him stuff while others are fine with it.
He doesn't seem to be as dependant on that side of things though as he has his own content, his own guitar company, his own bands, distributes his own music etc,.
It’s when the product placement is presented under the guise of ‘news’ that I tune out.
But in a past-time where the companies have such huge influence, this is always going to be a blurred line though isn't it?. The first carbon wheelset is news, the 209th copy, less so. A 12speed wireless groupset that's "affordable" is news, slight changes to the colour of the next model year of XT..,passing interest. I think on balance; GMBN get it mostly right.
It'd be interesting to see what different people consider as "product placement".
OK, maybe not that interesting, but there might some cross-purposes going on.
In GMBN's case, I see it as the bikes they ride - and which the cameras often linger over - and the occasional product-led video or social post.
They've never pretended to do objective bike reviews, have they?
If only they were using Steve Jones for that, instead of the eeb-evangelising.
tbh i like the GMBN stuff. Its quite positive and easy going. Nice to watch with a beer.
Yes they are faults but on the whole i bet its helped a lot of people.
If only they were using Steve Jones for that, instead of the eeb-evangelising.
Please God no!! At least on EMBN I can avoid him and his nonsense. Whenever he appears on the DSS or one of the other videos I turn off!
chakaping
It’d be interesting to see what different people consider as “product placement”.
As an example of where I see GMBN blurring there lines between 'News' and 'Product Placement': On a recent Tech Show, Doddy talked at some length about a new POC helmet and some sunnies as part of the 'News' section of the show. The whole segment just felt like he was regurgitating a press release whilst someone filled his pockets with twenty pound notes just out of shot.
I know in the bike industry that advertising can range from anywhere between "This content includes a paid promotion from xxx" to lingering shots of specific products (Red Bull sponsored riders shredits, anyone..?) and I'm genunely fine with either. I get it - you've got to get paid, and riding bikes is only ever a viable career if you can use your influence to shift a bit of product. It's when the commercial incentives begin to colour the editorial content in such a way that the content creators think we won't spot an advert that I take issue.
Doddy talked at some length about a new POC helmet and some sunnies as part of the ‘News’ section of the show. The whole segment just felt like he was regurgitating a press release
This is literally every bike website though
I'm not too bothered with product placement or even sponsored video as long as it's made clear its a sponsored video.
This is literally every bike website though
yup, even if they aren't getting paid for writing an article/doing a video of it specifically, seems that the "deal" is there is a
- release (spec sheet regurgitation)
- first ride (actual use of box fresh product by someone who constantly flits between box fresh products for a job)
- long term review (many months of use and a decent opinion given)
Only the last one is really of much use to the discerning buyer, but you don't get free stuff to long term test without doing the first two.
They’ve never pretended to do objective bike reviews, have they?
They got a slap on the wrist from the ASA over some Wahoo content on GCN a couple of years ago for this.
If you want to see who sponsors them, 'Read More' in the video description - that's where their sponsors are (or should be...) listed.
This post is brought to you by Square Space.....
Least it's not NordVPN
Nope they're all shilling something or other. Even the one's who make a point of being real, rolling laughing emoji!
YT has become the extension of corporate marketing it was always intended to be, once the captive audience was large enough. Yes the old fashioned drug dealer tactic is pretty much standard practice for American tech/software businesses.
Has Doddy been reading this thread?
See the latest video where he recommends 10 accessories!
Full disclaimers. Excellent stuff.
Genuinely useful and (to me) interesting.
GMBN used to be a worthwhile watch but it's disappeared up its own pipe recently. Can't make it's mind up what it should be doing.
A video released earlier this week: Are hardtail mountainbikes pointless?
A video released today: Is a hardtail mountainbike the only bike you need?
Can't decide if it's serious or not....
Kinda gave up on it as of late. Same with Pinned/ Tommy C after it went all e-bikey.
I like Juliet Elliot and a few over sorta vloggers, but not really watching any bigger MTB channels.
Not watched GMBN for ages. The content seems as though it's aimed at noobs or youngsters. Very shouty. Too many skids.
Haven't bothered with Seth bike hacks/berm peak.
The other Seth guy who builds features in his garden is a nice watch in a slow TV kinda way.
I'll watch GCN and the occasional pink bike vids, along with a few random channels.
Paul the Punter lost me when he started crying that Scott weren't supplying him with bikes. Putting a call out to bike manufacturers that he needed a bike reeked of desperation. Go and buy your own bikes you parasite.
GCN seems to have more relevant content despite the fact I don't ride road. Their style is generally more professional and not so shouty and in your face.
I feel a bit for content providers, It must be pretty hard to make a living from it.
Zero sympathy. Either be good at what you do or go and get a proper job. Most YouTubers who rely on promoting various crap as opposed to making genuinely interesting or original content are vapid media whores who've seemingly not done a proper day's work.
#****inflzr
Go and buy your own bikes you parasite
Lol I used to like his videos cause his riding was like mine but it’s changed so much there is hardly any riding done now. BKXC videos have changed too for the worst. Mine are just as crap as they usually are that’s if I ever make another proper video.
I am waiting for the Gmbn Pole Stamina review.
Zero sympathy. Either be good at what you do or go and get a proper job. Most YouTubers who rely on promoting various crap as opposed to making genuinely interesting or original content are vapid media whores who’ve seemingly not done a proper day’s work.
But... don't you want to check out their ULTIMATE MTB camper dream build?
I suspect most moderately popular MTB YouTubers are barely scratching a living, and are mainly in it for the free stuff and the perceived status.
Maybe it's not their fault they don't know how to make good content, or that they come across as smug, or that they have to put out increasing volumes of dull, pointless videos as they try to try to chase revenue.
OK, maybe it is. But I notice a common theme is that YTers "aren't as good as they used to be". This links back to the original discussion about GMBN - it's bloody hard to come up with really good content propositions week-in week-out. The ideas run out and you revert to formulas.
What seems like a dream job could quickly become a cross to bear.
I suspect most moderately popular MTB YouTubers are barely scratching a living, and are mainly in it for the free stuff and the perceived status.
I suspect for a lot of them it’s the equivalent of doing a Saturday shift in an LBS every once in a while for the trade prices, whilst having a proper job during the week, and very few ‘turn pro’.
Paul the Punter lost me when he started crying that Scott weren’t supplying him with bikes. Putting a call out to bike manufacturers that he needed a bike reeked of desperation. Go and buy your own bikes you parasite.
Think it worked for him, though. But yes, seemed a bit desperate. I got bored with BKXC because he seemed to think that visiting states with complete Covid lockdowns was OK for his 'dull rides everywhere' feature. Plus his little whoop/laugh thing that sounds like Bo Selecta's Michael Jackson...
I suspect for a lot of them it’s the equivalent of doing a Saturday shift in an LBS every once in a while for the trade prices, whilst having a proper job during the week, and very few ‘turn pro’.
Totally agree. I was thinking more of the "vanlife" types, but what you describe is more common I'm sure.
for his ‘dull rides everywhere’ feature
Those were some really crap trails he rode
Not watched GMBN for ages. The content seems as though it’s aimed at noobs or youngsters. Very shouty. Too many skids.
Haven’t bothered with Seth bike hacks/berm peak.
The other Seth guy who builds features in his garden is a nice watch in a slow TV kinda way.
I’ll watch GCN and the occasional pink bike vids, along with a few random channels.
Paul the Punter lost me when he started crying that Scott weren’t supplying him with bikes. Putting a call out to bike manufacturers that he needed a bike reeked of desperation. Go and buy your own bikes you parasite.
GCN seems to have more relevant content despite the fact I don’t ride road. Their style is generally more professional and not so shouty and in your face.
I feel a bit for content providers, It must be pretty hard to make a living from it.
Zero sympathy. Either be good at what you do or go and get a proper job. Most YouTubers who rely on promoting various crap as opposed to making genuinely interesting or original content are vapid media whores who’ve seemingly not done a proper day’s work.
Never understood PTP and how he managed to blag a ride on Scott, didn't set the world alight with his riding or wrenching. Scott Laughland is really good, polished, informative content with value.
Vast majority of mags, youtubers rarely add any value to the reviews, just spouting whats in the blurb. Paul Aston was good, as wass the NSMB and Bikemag, they pushed pinkbike to up their game.
3 pages in and no mention of Sam Pilgrim tearing up parks and footy pitches on his electric motorbike?
it’s bloody hard to come up with really good content propositions week-in week-out. The ideas run out and you revert to formulas
This is the problem in a nutshell I think. I don't envy them trying to think up new ideas for weekly videos that quickly become very repetitive. It was getting boring long before Covid ruined everything. GMBN morphed into MBUK ages ago.
I think the solution is probably to do seasons like they do on Mighty Car Mods. Have an idea, document it, finish it then take a break. Then think of something new and come back. That's how I would do it, but I'm not a pathological attention seeker and I hate being on camera.
The only channel I've been watching regularly in the last year is Storror and that's mostly because I slept on it and can go back and catch up on all their best stuff while they're trapped in the UK struggling for ideas every week.
Even my mrs. likes it. She says it's because it's rare to see a group of young lads who are really nice to each other and don't act like dicks all the time. It's either that or because they're all ripped young hunks.
BKXC
Is that the guy with the monotone voice? His voice alone is enough to make me skip.
Socialblade.com is an interesting site to get a very rough idea of what these YouTubers are earning. You can also see how their viewing figures fluctuate over the years.
Maybe it’s not their fault they don’t know how to make good content, or that they come across as smug, or that they have to put out increasing volumes of dull, pointless videos as they try to try to chase revenue.
Hi guys! Don't forget to smash that like button and subscribe.
Sam Pilgrim
Chav
3 pages in and no mention of Sam Pilgrim tearing up parks and footy pitches on his electric motorbike?
Briefly watched his stuff until I realised it was mainly going to be riding the same flight of steps in Colchester.
The TV industry spends a fortune trying to come up with new and interesting content, and often fails miserably, can't see why youtubers should have a magic idea-pit.
I got bored with BKXC because he seemed to think that visiting states with complete Covid lockdowns was OK for his ‘dull rides everywhere’ feature.
Yeah this really annoyed me too. I thought he was fine before that but then he put out a video back at the height of the first pandemic, maybe may/june time where he just complained that he was fed up with being locked down so he was just going to ignore it. Peak entitled American attitude that. And yeah, there really isn't much to the US riding outside the more well known places. Like his current stuff at the moment is evangelising Arkansas and praising the Walton family for being so philanthropic, I mean come on! There's no point commenting on his videos and criticising them either because he's mentioned before he just deletes negative comments. They're just full of blind praise for him.
Scott Laughland is really good, polished, informative content with value.
You mean the man with absolutely zero personality? I can't get through any of his videos because he's just so wooden and boring.
I really don't get the bitching. If you watch TV you don't watch every program on a channel, you don't have to watch every episode on GMBNs channel. Some of its good some, very promotional or aimed at ne people. Its a wide audience and they are a business.
I really don’t get the bitching
You must be new here.
Never understood PTP and how he managed to blag a ride on Scott, didn’t set the world alight with his riding or wrenching.
TBF to him, his channel really isn't about the sort of riding that Remi or Joann do, it's about being a punter. Given that all his other sponsors stayed with him, and he picked up a new bike sponsors pretty fast, Brands are clearly seeing value in what he produces.
I think half the problem is the way youtubes algorithm works now. It seems that I used to watch some mountain bike videos, and I would get similar suggestions, so more variety. Now I just seem to get videos recommended from the channels that I subscribe to and no fresh content suggestions. So the repetitive nature of those few channels is really starting to grate.
Socialblade.com is an interesting site
Thanks for the link, you're right, it is interesting, BKXC seems to earning about what I thought (given numbers of supporters).
If that site is accurate for GMBN (estimated yearly earnings £250k) then they must be getting a significant proportion of their revenue from product placement and merch.
I have always been reluctant to criticise GMBN on here, because I figured that one or more of the presenters might be forum members. But the fact is, not a minute of GMBN has ever appealed to me.
I think it's a cultural thing, but there something about the tone they strike - something that comes too close to the MBUK image - that I can't stand. And the whole emphasis on jumping and enduro - as others have noted - doesn't help.
I originally came to MTB from road racing, and was able to see the sport as being like that, only with knobbly tyres on dirt trails. I remember a broadcast many years ago of some 24-hour event in Banff (or somewhere) that really caught my attention and convinced me that off-road could be okay, and inspired my first mountain bike purchase. But GMBN doesn't seem to cover any such riding. Everything is too 'rad'. Like watching 'Surf's Up' on two wheels.
Whereas GCN is quite watchable, even if 90% of it is just stating the obvious.
I think this is because of the difference in culture between the two worlds. I know this is an entirely subjective statement, but pretty much the entire GCN crew (with the exception, perhaps, of James) comes across as a bit more... well... intelligent, while the history of road racing seems to have a more sophisticated culture (and so with more content to explore).
Anyway, just a thought, because I'm sure that those of you with far more knowledge of MTB history and culture than I have can show me how my ideas are flawed.
If that site is accurate for GMBN (estimated yearly earnings £250k) then they must be getting a significant proportion of their revenue from product placement and merch.
This is why so many channels are sponsored, because YouTube alone does not pay well at all.
Thanks for the link, you’re right, it is interesting, BKXC seems to earning about what I thought
I think it's likely him and most of the other YouTube POV type channels make most of their money through Patreon.
@muggomagic yes I think you're right, I looked a while back at Brian Kennedy's Patreon rates vs others, and he offers his content much more cheaply than other's do (about $3.00 a month vs an average of about $10.00) and I wondered whether that had effected his income. I think he earns double what some others do.
@SaxonRider, I think a lot of that has to do with demographic doesn't it? I'd imagine they've done their homework and the channels probably reflect their audiences. [joke] GCN is more for home counties ex-golfers, GMBN is for teenaged wanna-be DH and EWS stars. [/joke]
personally I see elements of both channels that are aimed for different audiences, and GMBN isn't all jumping and shouting, there's plenty of stuff on their of interest to XC and just the sorts of trail riding that most folk do. It's not all MAXGNARRRR...
Scott Laughland is really good, polished, informative content with value
polar opposite - find him irritating.
