[Closed] Full suss that climbs well and descends safely

How deep are your pockets? Frame and build it up yourself or off the peg?

I'd look at something shortish travel (~120), fairly slack. Maybe a Yeti ASR5c.

I'd also try and have a go on a good hardtail too, something like the Soul.

If you really want a big bouncer then something like a NP Mega maybe. Though I think you'd probably have more fun and develop better skills on a hardtail or short travel in the long term.

I only own one of the above 🙂

I would say Giant Anthe, climbs incredibly well an defends as well as many much longer travel bikes

I've never owned a specialised, but I'd say a Stumpy fits right in that bracket, and you could get last years model for a good price on t'internet.

If you are happy with Mail Order, then a Canyon Nerve AM would be cracking spec for the money.

My All Mountain bike is a Santa Cruz Heckler, and that would be great for that, as would an Orange 5, or a Yeti 575.

So that's 5, only 1 of which I own/Have owned!!

Specialized Camber - climbs as well as an Anthem X but more relaxed geometry. I've had both and the Camber rides really well, very forgiving without being dull. Worth a tryout for sure.

I wouldn't say that "money's no object" but I don't mind spending on something that will last. My main problem right now is deciding what I'm looking for. I'm currently riding a (26") Trance and have an older Five that I've been playing with to get a feel for what I want from a bike. I've got test rides booked on an Orange Gyro and Trance 29er for later in the month and will post my thoughts on those. But during my ride last night it struck me that I tend to judge a ride by what and how fast I can climb and what (but not how fast) I can come down. So a successful ride is one where I get up or down something I've never managed before or climb something faster than I've managed before.

it may be worth seeing if you can get a test ride on a ellsworth epiphany. Of all the full sus bikes I've owned and ridden, including spesh, treks, giant,orange , felt, sinister,maverick, marin etc... it was the best mix of climbing/pedalling/descending and all round awesome bike. It climbed like a monkey with it bum on fire. Just lush and the only 26er I still wish I owned. Would kill to get my paws on the 29er version.

[url= http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain/product/review-ellsworth-epiphany-10-36001 ]review thingymebobbins[/url]

What'sd wrong with your current bike? I don't mean that facetiously, just wonder what it's lacking?

If you're looking for for confidence to be inspired when you've already had lots of riding time on a trance and five, then quite possibly your skills are the limiting factor.

then quite possibly your skills are the limiting factor.

Nahhh that's what 29ers are for.

Good questions.

There is nothing wrong with the Trance. But, in an ideal world I'd be looking for a bike that would climb faster than the Trance and allow me to get down some of the trickier descents (e.g. bigger steps, drops, rocks etc). Of course, both of those can be achieved by working harder on fitness and skills and I may well conclude (after all the test rides and general naval gazing) that the best course of action is just to stick with the Trance and work on my skills before considering another bike. But, no harm in thinking about whether another bike might suit me better.

Trek fuel ex's are really excellent bikes. A friend has one and it just does everything well with minimal fuss. The 2013 ones have revised geometry and look very interesting indeed. Shouldn't be too difficult to get a demo either.
Actually, if you have a healthy budget; a turner DW 5 spot fits that bill very well.

Blur LT climbs really well, handles a lot on the way back. Bonus points for getting the c.
Life time bearing replacements from SC, great frame, great for climbing very adaptable. Climbed like a shorter bike descended like a bigger one.
(missus owns one)

26" option would be a Whyte 146

29er trek Rumblefish

+1 Fuel Ex8. Run mine with 110/140 talas and 1600g american classic wheelset...nips up and down mountains like a Nepalese goat

Norco sight / sight killer B

Ibis mojo sl or sl-r

light, climbs well, 140mm travel get you down pretty much any natural trail v fast 🙂

my sl kicks ass, 26lbs of all round, all day fun

Anything but a downhill bike.

I'd recommend... ooh, lets see... the first 2 pictured [url= http://singletrackworld.com/ ]here[/url]

SC Tallboy LT? Carbon or alu depending on your pockets?

It climbed like a monkey with it bum on fire.

Sounds like you are demoing the right bikes there Roverpig. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts.

in an ideal world I'd be looking for a bike that would climb faster than the Trance and allow me to get down some of the trickier descents

Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it. The best thing I could suggest is to work on your bike handling skills.

If you want to buy anything, go for some flats and 5 10's.

Once you are more confident offroad, you will have more of an idea of what you actually like in a bike.

Fear not mattbibbings, long and rambling posts are bound to follow any testing 🙂

The number of options seems to be growing at an alarming rate though. I wonder whether it would help to focus on characteristics rather than specific brands/models e.g. what makes one full suss bike a better climber than another?

Let's consider (for a simple example) a fireroad climb. So, we can assume the shock is locked and take that out of the equation. Weight obviously matters but that's total weight of bike plus rider so a few pound here or there on the bike wont make much difference. Let's ignore the wheels as that are easy to change. In fact, I'm really just thinking about frames at this point as I'd almost certainly want to build up my next bike myself. What's left? Stiffness I guess. So, is that what I should be focusing on? Frame stiffness?

Geometry is as/more important than all of the IMHO.

Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it.

Of course. Don't we all 🙂

If you want to buy anything, go for some flats and 5 10's.

Got those already. Very nice they are too, but I don't think they are doing much for my climbing 🙂

Once you are more confident offroad, you will have more of an idea of what you actually like in a bike.

Sound advice and that may well be my conclusion too, but no harm in window shopping.

Frame stiffness is good....

For climbing really for me it's the shock and suspension design. Basically I can live with the lock out doing all the work but it's far from ideal. If the suspension can help to provide some stability too then it's great. For a good climbing bike you need a back end that tracks the ground. Take a bike that you need to run a hard lockout on and that is lost.

I'd say the Trance was a pretty good balance to be honest, most bikes that are light enough to climb faster aren't likely to be demon descenders as well. You could try sticking a faster tyre on the rear for less rolling resistance on the way up and maybe a slightly longer fork up front to give a bit more confidence on the downs and if you want to get really anal, maybe some sort of slacker headset gubbins.

Or you could just go medieval on your wallet and buy a Blur TRC... but really, the proper quick riders I know are proper quick whatever they ride. Personally I'd be looking at a light hardtail with a biggish fork, a Ragley Ti or similar, 456 Ti Evo maybe if you want new, but that's just me.

Geometry is as/more important than all of the IMHO.

For climbing? OK, I understand that you need to keep the front wheel on the ground, but beyond that it seems as though the front end geometry is more about descending than climbing and pretty much every bike these days seems to have something close to a 73 degree seat angle.

I'm not saying that you are wrong. Geometry is obviously crucial in general, but I'm struggling to see which bit of geometry is going to make one MTB climb better than another.

ps: oh, you want some sort of race whippet carbon hardtail that magically metamorphoses into a mini-downhill bike as soon as you hit the crest of the hill. And for that reason, I'm out. 😉

Geometry is obviously crucial in general, but I'm struggling to see which bit of geometry is going to make one MTB climb better than another.

I think (and this'll feed bwarp's 29er frothings) a change to a 29er will help more than anything, from the riding and wants you're describing. Generalising yes (and edited to add 'assuming decent geometry'), but 29" wheels can handle steppy, slo-mo steep rocky sections more confidently and capably than a 26 and climbing is great if you accept that momentum-maintenance is what you need, not stop-start grinding where a heavier wheel will feel slower.
Climbing-wise frame stiffness, sus type etc make some difference but you'll need to ride a lot of bikes for a fairly long time to really figure that out. Some people like SPs, some prefer multi-links, as long as the bike puts you in a good position and suits your pedalling / riding style all's well.

I've been demoing fs bikes since last year on and off and the best going up was the TRc I rode in the lakes, it's was also fantastic going down. The two dw link bikes I've ridden also went up very well.

Pivot Mach 5.7... climbs as well as an Anthem, if not even better, and has more travel for getting down again. I own an Anthem, and the Pivot is the only FS bike I've ridden since I got it that gave me a bad case of the "I wants" after a demo. Much too expensive for me, mind!

I've ridden most suspension designs available, and the Maestro is up there with the best. The things making your trance feel slower ton the climbs will be weight, get a fast tyre on the rear and drop the weight of your components if you want to go faster, and plug a 140mm stiff fork up front with a through axle.

Where in Scotland are you riding, and what type of terrain?

By a country mile the Turner implementation is the best feeling design I've ridden. Well worth seeing if you can try one out for comparison. Its the kind of bike you can build up heavy so it descends very very well, but pedals a hell of a lot lighter.

Sorry but weight is a red herring. I've got a 20lb ish XC hard tail and a 30lb ish full suss AM bike and the AM bike climbs brilliantly, you can't feel the extra weight at all. For the OP coming from road riding I'd say go for a 29er for starters, it will feel more like a road bike in terms of pedaling and climbing efficiency. I would say look to something like a Transition Bandit 29. I've got the Covert which is more DH orientated, but still climbs very well, but the Bandit will be an even better climber.

Make sure you test ride a Stumpjumper - best bike I've owned. I'm not saying its the best bike out there but for me climbs brilliantly and descends with ease.

Stick with the trance.. That is already the answer to what you are looking for... the weakest link is most always the human... only that can top this climbing with bit confidence going down is anthem with 120mm setup... Stumpy fsr are good choices too..

Lapierre

+1 Lapierre

Zesty. More confidence inspiring which is key to the op.

I've found nothing better than my 575 in this respect. However I refuse to test ride a Specialized Epic 29er for this exact reason. I reckon thats the ultimate weapon out there at the moment.

lapierre wouldn't be on my list as sell on price is going to be hit hard by the fact that they wont sell spares to anyone but the original owner!

i got a rocky mountain alititude 50 love it climbs like a goat 140mm travel all round with lockouts! and its done everything i threw at it!, but also on my list was the norco sight 3 it came down to personal pref but the norco won trail bike of the year 2012!

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/norco/sight-3-se-2013-mountain-bike-ec043508
£1800 seems a good deal on that!

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/norco/sight-killer-b-3-2013-650b-mountain-bike-ec041219
£1900 for the 650b model!

those would defo be in my check list an add to that evans will get them in and you can get 0% for 12 or 24months seems a bargin... but i think my next bike with be the sight killer b 🙂 160mm travel all round 🙂

gl in getting a bike

Can't do quotes, but earlier on in this thread there was a mention about the importance of geometry for climbing ability and some views were expressed that it didn't matter. Well I'm no expert on this but have read and know enough to appreciate that for a full suss bike geometry and rear suspension design is absolutely key to haw well the bike climbs. Things like chain growth and pedal kickback are results of suspension and geometry design that will determine if the bike is a good efficient climber or a bike that will fight you on the climbs and sap your energy. Also the degree of pedal bob is a function of geometry and suspension design.

If you're liking 26" wheels and have DEEP pockets try a Nicolsi Heliys CC, they climb very well and descend very well too.

If 29'er is your preference, an Anthem is the way to go IMHO.

Yeti 575's are also very good and both things your after, as is the Ibis Mojo SL.

For something I haven't ridden/owned, hmmm, those Canyons look good VFM

Any bike with wheels and brakes that isn't from Argos or Tesco. Because, believe it or not, a bike is a completely inanimate object and it will only do what you make or inadvertently allow it to do.
If you're looking within a similar price category and with similar components, they will all be more than capable with a capable rider.

For climbing? OK, I understand that you need to keep the front wheel on the ground, but beyond that it seems as though the front end geometry is more about descending than climbing and pretty much every bike these days seems to have something close to a 73 degree seat angle.

Exactly as mike said, go and ride a few with different geometry and you'll understand what I'm saying. There is no panacea, everything is a compromise so you need to end up with something with climbs and descends acceptably. Suspension designs behave very differently, so try as many as you can get your mitts on. I'm a huge VPP fan, but I understand that it's a bit marmite and not for everyone.

Giant trance. It's a very efficient climber and slack enough to give you confidence down steep stuff. The anthem is a bit steeper and not as assured downhill.

I'm fairly sure the Trance will take a 140mm fork and also fairly sure this is a pretty common upgrade to them. Might be worth a Google for reviews as I'm fairly sure it will make it more enjoyable coming down. Might be worth a try rather than changing?

I've only had a quick spin on a Trance (which had a 140mm fork on) and it felt pretty keen to go up and seemed like it'd go down well too. Hard to be certain though from a quick spin.

Ridden a few Anthems, both climbed amazingly but both felt a bit held back coming down. Was faster up on the Anthem but always quicker down on my steel HT with 140mm forks.

Fuel must be in with a good shout although I'm not convinced it'll be miles away from the Trance. My main go to bike just now is the Remedy 9. It isn't the quickest thing I've ridden uphill but it more than makes up for it coming down. Even though it isn't the quickest I'd delighted with how it climbs for a big 150mm bike. Only other bike I currently own/ride that'd beat it up hill is a 29er Niner HT but round a lap of say Glentress Red I'd not say the overall times between the two would be much different.

The 140mm Mojo would be worth a look too, that was the other one in the running against the Remedy for me.

Another vote for the Transition Bandit tried on at a demo recently, at the moment it's a toss up between it and a Covert they both ride well but if climbing were my principle requirement then the Bandit does that better, I'm still thinking about the Covert, it was quite close and I like the downhill feel.

I went from a Trance to an Anthem X: the Anthem feels much better on the climbs and gives away very little on the descents. You need (IMO) to fit a 120mm fork to get the best out of it.

What gears suck said.

Seems to me that you should just stick with what you've got and ride it a bit more.

There is no magical bike that will transform your riding.
Just practise.

As a former (and current) roadie whose only been riding off-road seriously for a year

Don't take this as at dig at you but.
The more time you spend in situations that feel a bit out of you depth the quicker you'll become more confident in those situations.

It'll come with a bit of time on the bike. 🙂

What Rickon and Wobbliscott are saying rings true with me.
The Turner 5Spot I have does what they are portraying, climbs well with no pedal bob/chainsuck and descends superb with the correct setup. Run mine with a coil shock.
Oh, and don't forget their excellent warranty.
Previous to this I ran a Santa Cruz Heckler, did not climb any where near as good as the Turner.
I really do prefer four bar style/DW over single pivot.
I also have a Ellsworth Truth, that climbs at least 30% better than the 5Spot, but not as good on the downs.
Turner Burner?

My two pence, keep your money in your wallet for now. You have a good bike under you in the Trance, learn how to use it moar betterer.

Perhaps invest in a dropper post? Good efficient pedalling position for the ups, greater confidence on the downs from not having your seat invading you.

As well as climbing very well in the saddle, my turner flux is also very good/natural out of the saddle.

Good for climbing steep bits or quick sprinty climbs out of the saddle to avoid a gear change whilst on singletrack.

Also ridden a 5 spot and a Trance X - the Trans was more direct when climbing, felt more like a hard-tail, but I wasn't sure if that was the suspension not working like suspension when the chain was tensioned.

On the descents through the 5 spot was superior to the trance - the stiffness of the rear and the solidity of the bushing system being the reasons I think.

A 2010 5 spot might be better for climbing as they slackened off the head angle after that.

The Ellsworth Evolve 29er - I test rode it last week and it was amazing - climbs like that monkey with its bum on fire, and descends equally as competently. You need look no further. (And I don't have one... - yet!)

I replaced a 2011 5 spot with a [b]Banshee Spitfire[/b]. It's lighter and feels more nimble on the climbs and it's also more confidence inspiring on the downs. I've come from a DH orientated background and on a [b]Banshee Spitfire[/b] I can hit most descents near on as quick as I'd dare on an 8" travel bike, it's very stable and a touch longer than most bikes for their respective sizes due to the slack head angle. Might make up a bit for lack of skill on the downs.

Cannot recommend one enough and having been a serial bike changer over the years I can honestly say this is staying until it breaks or the whole world has moved to 29" wheels and I take up golf due to not being able to get 26" tyres. 😉

Genuinely feels like it has made me a faster rider, proper rocket ship!

Oh and I would recommend you run 150mm forks if you get one as they are in my opinion the right length for the bike although some people go 10mm either way on that.

I have a Trance X. Great bike, but as others has said I would keep your Trance. You could always fit a slightly longer fork (as lots of folk do with Trance and Trance X) and of wide bars, chunky tyre in the front etc which I personally have found help with confidence descending (certainly made a big difference on my hardtail).

However, best upgrade when I only had my hardtail was £90 on tuition. Really helped focus and make the best out of the bike I had, good fun and learnt quite a few new skills.

There are bikes out there for as much as you want to spend, but I think you have got a good bike to start with on which to either upgrade bits ( if necessary) or just get more confident on. Another way to spend the cash would be an uplift day, weekend or week away somewhere with proper hills or regularly dry days. If you are north of the border it is all on you doorstep, apart from the dry weather perhaps.

I had a Trance with a 140mm fork. Was good going up, good going down. Only sold it as it was slightly too small for me and I had the cash for a new bike.

Consider upgrading your Trance or at least having someone who knows what they're doing set the suspension up as that may also help a lot.

Exactly as mike said, go and ride a few with different geometry and you'll understand what I'm saying. There is no panacea

for 26" wheel I would go for a head angle 68 - 66 degrees. I had Giant and came to Zesty from RM. Zesty has them beat up and down.

I dont think

lapierre wouldn't be on my list as sell on price is going to be hit hard by the fact that they wont sell spares to anyone but the original owner!

IMHO up and down is combination of mostly skill and fitness and a bit of bike. Look at geometry not makes. Everything will be acomprimise, short - long stem, short or long chain stays all have positive or negative affects depending on going up or down. But you can change cling ons.

Eg I have 55mm stem on zesty so going up I need to ride well over the front to keep the wheel planted but a short stem is ideal for technical downs. So you can change some stuff and get a ride to suit how you want to ride. What you cant change is the bike frame. Hence comments about bike frame geo being important. 4 bar suspension IMHO is the best overal for climbing and downs.

In response to weight being a red herring....

This is in response to the OP's current bike, not other bikes. The single limiting factor that can be changed in their current situation - except the rider - is the weight and drag of the bike.

Dropping some weight, and putting faster tyres on *will* make the bike climb faster for any given effort, without additional ride input.

To save money, I'd be upgrading the Trance. If it all goes wrong, buy a secondhand frame and switch the parts over 🙂

in all honesty the trance is one of the best climbing bikes you can get, we (daughter and I had trances at seperate times) ran it with 140mm forks very very capable bike.

Try a travel adjust fork mine was a talas and able to drop to 100mm was good.

Second hand
Maverick ml7.5 and durance with 140mm forks very long and very stable.
Yeti 5 or 7....I have a 7 and it just one bike i will be keeping weighs 33lbs but tecnical can climb and compensates for my lack of skill. 5 is a very capable trail bike
Ellsworth ephinany lightweigth 5 inch travel

I have an anthem waiting to be ridden which I hope will be light enough buut sturdy for my bulk.

Keep the trance.....

I don't think you're going to get something that climbs as well as the Trance but descends better without spending some mega bucks. I think going for the light wiegth route to make the bike easier to climb might be the way forward.

The Giant Maestro system is a very good pedalling system and Giants geo is on the conservative side compared to the modern super slack angles we are seeing today.

I tried a the Trek Fuel EX and Remedy as well as the Giant Trance X and Reign last year. While I personally preferred the Trek's they we not massively different they were both roughly in the same ball park. the Giants slightly preferred to go up while the Treks slightly preferred to go down.

I did find that the Trek suspension was a lot more composed in its action and I felt I could have ridden the roughest of trails even on the fuel ex not needed the extra travel of the Remedy.

In the end I went for a Transition Bandit. It has a a very playful nature making the ride more fun. while this appealed to me I don't think its right for your needs.

Go into a shop, and say the secret code, SB66c. If you do it in Superdrug, they'll probably chuck you out, for being weird. But if you do it in a bike shop, they'll wink and take you round the back and down into the secret bunker, full of amazing bikes.

Another vote for an Ellsworth, I have an Evolution which is the 120mm model, currently running mine with a 140mm Rev and slack bushes and a 65mm stem. It has a steep head angle and long stays which are terribly unfashionable right now. Despite that it climbs as well as an evolve and comes down very well!

I've spent years racing xc on Scott Sparks etc and I love my Ellsworth, about to take it to South Africa to do a 9 day stage race. The only changes I've made from my "fun" set up is some faster tyres.

Thanks for all the responses. There are certainly enough options there to slow me down a bit, even if some of you did break the rules and recommend your own bike 🙂

I'm reassured by the number of people recommending keeping the Trance as that may well be what I end up doing (for now at least). Although I didn't know much about riding off-road when I bought it last year I did do my research and it looks as though I picked something pretty close to ideal for my riding.

I also need to reflect on the large number trails that I can get up or down now that would have had me walking last year. As my riding ability is probably still changing fairly fast (and the skills course is booked for May) I should probably wait for that to plateau before looking at what bike I want next as my requirements may change.

I am still 29er curious and am testing a few (including the 29er Trance) this month. There is little point going over the 29er arguments again, but I can see that a larger wheel might give more traction going up and more confidence going down, so I'll be interested to test that theory.

As my riding ability is probably still changing fairly fast

Just keep at it. 🙂

The more experience you gain the more of an understanding you'll have of what you want a bike to do for you.

Thanks,

That's what I was trying to say, but you put it much better 🙂

Again I think it is your skills you need to work on. I'm currently on an ASR5 but had a trance previously - the ASR5 climbs like a goat but the trance was less bobby at the rear and less floaty on the front on really steep climbs, the Trance suspension really is great for climbing. Descent wise unless you are genuinely pushing the extremes of what is rideable on a Trance/5 or wanting to race, I can't see how the trance or 5 will be holding you back, unless you are really caning it or hitting genuinely big stuff really hard.

Just changed the 2012 bandit 29 for the covert 29,the bandit was possibly the best all round bike I have ever ridden, just required a little more muscle for more aggressive trails. the covert does exactly that, an awesome bit of kit. anyone not sure of the capabilities of a good 29r should demo a spesh camber and then sling a leg over the bandit or covert, the difference is mind blowing.

Two rides into my Covert 29 and I'm well impressed. A great bike that feels like it can take on whatever you wanted to thow at it. Can't wait till tomorrow's ride.

Best way to spend your money and get greater safety on the descents -

Get a hardtail or DJ or BMX and spend lots of hard work and time improving your skills in a car park and at a bmx/pump track.

Key to it is hard work and accepting you're going to fall off and it is going to hurt.

More suspension = a harder time learning bike handling

Bike handling skills is the best way of making things safer. That and taking up some form of martial arts so you master the art of falling.