Currently have a pitch with lyrics on, 2 bikes before were a heckler and a spicy. I like the look of giving a bfe a go with the lyrics on. I ride in the peaks twice a week and trips to Wales/Lakes.
Just fancy something simple again without have to do bushes, bearings etc and the frame is cheap compared to replacing with a full suss.
My question is has anybody changed back and regretted it paticulary to something like a bfe. Cheers
Never regretted it as such... but going back to a FS was really nice last week.
Why not keep the pitch and build a hardtail as well?
That's pretty much what I've done with my pitch (also with lyrics) and a chumba HX1 with revs set to 130mm, I'd not put lyrics on a HT, there comes a point where regardless of the forks the rear end doesn't follow through anymore, I came to the conclusion after fitting 150mm Z1 RC2's to my 456 that although it was fun it was actually slower and harder work than it was with 130mm forks.
gone back and for a few times, both is the way to go, but my only mtb now is a full susser.
I have one of each. HT keeps me sharp and the FS makes me feel like i'm better than I am.
if it's the coil u turn lyriks, -you'll love it
If it's the fixed travel 160/170 lyriks you may find the front-end a bit too "different" to the back at times. -you'll love it at times, but not always.
I slummed it for a year or so on a BFe (with lyrics) and a whippet and it was great - certainly not something you'd regret.
I ride in the Peak as well - Loss of the skill compensating rear sus was v noticeable on the whippet, obviously (had a couple of laughable attempts at Cavedale on it), but less so on the BFe which is a capable bike. Think you'd be happy doing the classic dark Peak rides on the BFe, although the longer loops (like 5 hrs +) might get a bit wearing depending on fitness.
Switched the BFe for a FS bike now and more happy with that tbh, but there's not a great deal in it (I think a short travel FS would be my choice for classic UK moorland riding if you had to have one bike). Hear you on the shock, bushings etc. - total ballache mincing around with the linkage after a HT.
they are the air dual position lyrics so 160/130. I already have a road bike and commuter and unable to justify having both to the management so it's 1 bike for each. Cotic site says the bfe is built to take 160 so if I can change between 130 to 160, just wondered how i will fare on the technical stuff.
Run it at 100 - 120mm of travel.
Depends on your riding I guess.
I built myself up a steel hardtail last year for exactly the same reasons, I also wanted a decent commuter bike too and an Orange Pure 7 fitted the bill perfectly.
In all honesty it's ace, perfect for 90% of the riding I do. The back end feels nicely dampened and it'll easily outclimb either of my full sussers, but its nowhere near as quick on the descents when the weather is dry. In the wet/mud though it's perfect.
If it were my only bike I'd still miss my Camber.
It's best to have both
I only have a BFe. Every time I get a fs I get bored and go back to it. Much like you, I also ride in the Peak pretty regularly and have zero problems. It's just fun, simple, feels fast, sometimes is fast, and keeps me on my toes. It's nice just to be able to grab the bike and go. May as well ride hardtails while my body can take it.
I'm currently running some Dual Air Pikes on mine, consistently set to 140, which are about right for everything. I've also got a 1 degree slackset kicking about which I'll give a go when I can find a bike shop I trust to do the work.
Have been running my bfe for a couple of months now and really enjoying relearning all the basic stuff I should have learnt a long time ago.
Ps I swapped all the kit from my 2010 pro over so running 140 pikes. Generally having to think things through rather than just hucking it and not giving a shit how I land was what I was after. Ps riding FOD and cwncarn, both dh's
david why would you run a bfe at 100mm travel????
Stu Tite..
sprocker - Member
they are the air dual position lyrics so 160/130
sounds great then.
i was just trying to say you'd probablly not want a 160 forked ht as your only option all the time. The option to go 130 makes a big difference. enjoy 🙂
Not quite answering your question, but when my 05 stumpy FSR got nicked a couple months back I replaced it with a Camber, lock outs at both ends!, now I can ride HT & FS any time.
I have loved riding HT again and the option to flick the switch and go back to FS when heading down has been well received by my body!
I went from a Reign to a Carbon 456 because I felt I was getting lazy. Really enjoyed the 456 but started to feel ruined after some tougher rides so now gone back to a FS (Intense 6.6) and don't regret it one bit.
If I could've afforded it I would have kept the 456 frame and swapped bits over for winter/summer use.
Feel a much better rider after a couple of years on a hardtail...
Recently swapped all my bits over from a fisher Hifi carbon which I had at 120mm/120mm. Gone to a soul with 130mm forks and its great, anyone who says you cant go fast on a hardtail is wrong.
I've got a BFe and it's brilliant!
Also rob jackson +1
robowns - Member
Recently swapped all my bits over from a fisher Hifi carbon which I had at 120mm/120mm. Gone to a soul with 130mm forks and its great, anyone who says you cant go fast on a hardtail is wrong
You can go fast on a FS too, with the added bonus that it doesn't feel like you've been gang raped at the end of the ride.
Think I am going to order one and hang on the ptich frame and see how it goes before selling it on. Not sure i will go for a 100/120mm option though !
Went from a few bikes down to just one, and it's a 140mm* Chameleon. Haven't regretted it. Lifes too short to be messing about with pivots and bearings and another shock... Saves money and time, and TBH there's not a massive amount of stuff that I've thought " I'd have a crack at that on a FS, but not on a HT" and people aren't screaming past me on decents!
* chose 140mm for the "do-it-all-ability" not too unwieldy for XC but enough for when it all get a bit "wooooer" if that makes any sense!!
I ride both, pretty evenly split, both got a lot to recommend them. Glad I can have both, if I could only have one I guess it'd be the full suss but I'd still be happy with the hardtail.
Fitting a saddle will prevent the bum rape sensation, surely?
And the standard issue ttfu/mtfu applies too..
[i]You can go fast on a FS too, with the added bonus that it doesn't feel like you've been gang raped at the end of the ride.[/i]
LOL, I can honestly say that I've only ever wanted a full suss on a couple of occasions, use it as an excuse to get fitter!
I run a BFe with coil Lyriks and I love it. For anything less than 2 hours riding it's always my first choice
I also have a FS (Trek Remedy) for longer days, or more serious terrain, or the Alps, but for everything else the BFe gets picked.
I have a couple of hardtails and a FS
Just about to split and sell and buy One FS bike to rule them all
Did enjoy my last HT outing though my back didnt
Duplicate post.
At the moment I can't afford both however for winter I want to run a hardtail as I never clean my bike and its gritstone/evil stuff. When it gets spring I'll see if I can afford a decent full sus. Then I'll have both.
Why a hardtail? It'll be slower riding but in winter - riding slightly slower on descents isn't a bad thing is it. It'll also help retrain smoothness etc etc plus riding slower on descents means you get to lap up the descent more 😀
A c456 is a good compromise of lightness v strength IMO.
You're trying to convince us you'll keep a bike until Spring ?
I got bored on the FS because it felt like you had to go a lot faster to hit the bike/my limit. It was so much more fun going back to a Hardtail.
I maybe slower but I feel more skilled and more beaten up post ride. No regrets. It's going to be a while before I touch a FS again.
david why would you run a bfe at 100mm travel????
Because he's spent so much time riding road bikes recently that he's forgotten how to manhandle slacker longer-forked bikes round corners, if he ever knew... 😛
Don't have a FS, wouldn't say no if someone bought me a suitable one. Love how having a bit more travel on the front (140mm in my case) means you can get up on the bars moto-style in corners, pumping the bike well into the fork travel but still having enough suspension left to nail a line smoothly when it's rough.
If reeeeally pushed, say I needed to sell bikes for food, I'd keep just my HT.
You're trying to convince us you'll keep a bike until Spring ?
Well I doubt I can afford something like a decent Lapierre etc anytime soon sadly.
A c456 is a good compromise of lightness v strength IMO.
Isn't it one of the few bikes you've not had?
Rode HT for a few years now after a long stint on FS, really sharpened up my line choices but is now killing my back so have gone back to FS. Hopefully I will a better rider 🙂
Isn't it one of the few bikes you've not had?
I've never had a Commencal or a Lapierre. 8)
I've gone back to ht after a year of fs riding and i much prefer it tbh. Jumps better, looks better, is lighter and much less hassle. No regrets here!
I am only riding a hardtail at the moment (Rocky Ridge with coil Pikes). It is ace, but my back is not happy with going out too long! A couple of hours is about the most I am happy with, so I am getting a new FS in January to let me get out on longer rides in the new year.
That said, my riding has improved a LOT over the last few months, and even with a prior 4 year lay-off I think I am probably riding better than I was when I was out pretty much every day on the Yeti 575/Orange Patriot!
I've been toggling between the 2, currently in a HT phase and quite into it. Similarly the maintenance aspect is part of the decision. I've got a Blue Pig X with a Pike, soon to be 150mm Rev in a few days. Less weight, more options.
Nothing's set in stone. Go with it for now and change later if it doesn't work out. Each have their pros/cons as I'm sure you know and with those come different approaches to riding. If you're style currently would work with HT go with it.
Prior to the FS I had gone FS-HT but my confidence and technique are quite different now. With plans to move to or near the Peak I don't fancy the upkeep of a FS with gritstone mud all up in my crannies.
Less is more... apart from when it's less 😉
If you can then get the BFe and swap everything over onto it. Then get a headset that uses the same crown race or two headsets that have split crown races so you can easily swap the forks over. Get a second bb if you are running HT2. And get mechs and shifters. Put all this stuff on the Pitch and with a bit of practice you should be able to swap the components between frames in under an hour. Over time you can start buying new components and over the space of a year you will have two bikes.
Love my hardtail and love being on a hardtail again, so much so I sold my Five several months back.
It's great fun, simple and light.
However, I am now looking at another Five.
Less is more... apart from when it's less
Amen to that. 😉
Going back on a hardtail? Yeah and also I just took the rear springs off the car and welded in some steel pipe. The thing looses it's back end all the time so I have to go a lot slower but I love how simple and connected to the ground it feels....
Going back on a hardtail? Yeah and also I just took the rear springs off the car and welded in some steel pipe. The thing looses it's back end all the time so I have to go a lot slower but I love how simple and connected to the ground it feels....
Stand up when you're driving your car do you? Does it jump well? 😉
JCL - MemberGoing back on a hardtail? Yeah and also I just took the rear springs off the car and welded in some steel pipe. The thing looses it's back end all the time so I have to go a lot slower but I love how simple and connected to the ground it feels....
Good comparison. While we were at it, I added an engine to my road bike because it was much slower than my motorbike.
How does it handle?
weeksy - MemberHow does it handle?
Top tube's a wee bit long.
I tried FS for a bit. It was a 120mm xc bike, it climbed amazingly well which was it's main positive attribute. It felt to me like it didn't tame the trail enough on the descents to make the extra maintenance worthwhile. Sold it and went back to a hardtail which just felt so much more playful.
It also gives me a sense of accomplishment to keep up with guys on carbon FS bikes. Not all of you obviously but a good many of you!
rob jackson - Member
david why would you run a bfe at 100mm travel????
Cos its awesome.
But 160mm on a hardtail, only really any use for straight lining stuff downhill (but a full sus is better for this). Not much use anywhere else.
May aswell just use a full sus. You sort of miss the point of a hardtail with 160mm forks.
Errr. 100mm on a jump track etc. 140 for fun
One of each have to say its fun on a hardtail and in the winter it's more simple.
dtalyforth - my lyrics are dual position so 130/160 can therefore spend the majority of time in 130 if I want, the point is I am fed up with bearings, bushes etc and fancy something simple.
Just want it to not be to much of a handicap on the rougher stuff. Tbh can't see that 100mm forks fit with my riding and not what a bfe is designed for.
I know everyone's seen it, but it's always worth another go 😀
You could always stick a 10mm spacer in the Lyrik for 150-120 if it feels too lanky.
I had not seen it, fairly sure I can't quite match them on the skill level though :?.
Can you drop the spacer in the dual position ones.
Neither can I but that doesn't matter! It's inspiring none the less and shows what can be done.
Check out this thread; [url= http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/2012-lyrik-solo-air-travel-adjust-150-a-727063.html ]LINK[/url].
The final poster appears to nail it. I've only had a quick look, there's probably more info out there than this alone.
Or you could buy a 110-140 U-Turn Pike 454 off me... 
(I wasn't originally intending to pitch this to you, but it has just occurred to me).
I know it's all cool and DJ style to run short forks but the trails I ride are a lot less smooth than dirt jumps, the negative pumps (ie holes!) that need fork extension benefit from the greater actual sag on a longer fork, and with just that bit more fork length you can ride a fork that's soft enough to track well in corners without having to be really stiff to avoid wallowing or bottoming frequently - like my 2010 Floats - the ramp up of air is good in this context. I've got almost the same travel in my front tyre as in a sagged 100mm fork! dt, what do you know about corners anyway, all straight lines int'north innit? 😉
Another consideration - how much more travel do your legs have than your arms?
You sort of miss the point of a hardtail with 160mm forks.
You also forgot to mention that they handle like a bag of shit with long travel forks.
Herman Shake - Member
Neither can I but that doesn't matter! It's inspiring none the less and shows what can be done.
Just because something CAN be done by someone, doesn't mean the rest of us could or indeed should.
I've seen people swallow swords... doesn't mean i'm showing the bread knife down my throat when i make breakfast later. I've seen people gap jumping the Grand Canyon, but i've not attempted it on my KTM....
etc etc ad infinitum.
But 160mm on a hardtail, only really any use for straight lining stuff downhill (but a full sus is better for this). Not much use anywhere else.May aswell just use a full sus. You sort of miss the point of a hardtail with 160mm forks.
Er what?? Happy with 150/160 HT's nothing to do with straight lining DH stuff it's nippy agile and has a big fork 🙂 My 150/160mm Hardtails are fun in a different way.
kudos as stated several times the lyrics adjust 130 or 160 so should be able to sort the issue of handling just curious about if people regret the change. Assuming the hardtail is set up right.
Herman o thanks for the offer on the pike's but going to stick with what I have.
straight lining DH
Question - apart from some descents in the Lakes and specific DH tracks could someone point out to me WHY anyone really needs a 'rig' for UK riding?
You also forgot to mention that they handle like a bag of shit with long travel forks.
+1, can't stand the feeling of a hardtail with long forks. Feels far more balanced with shorter ones. Plus it gets the bb and front end lower 🙂
Weeksy, the world of MTB videos would be a bit bland if they were always within the confines of what the average rider can do. Why should you or anyone else's capability on a bike affect what is available as entertainment? It's just a fun vid and they happen to be on LTHTs, there's no instruction or judgement about whether you should imitate them. And Jinya Nishiwaki's in it and he's cool so there.
Sprocker, no worries.
Herman Shake - Member
Weeksy, the world of MTB videos would be a bit bland if they were always within the confines of what the average rider can do. Why should you or anyone else's capability on a bike affect what is available as entertainment? It's just a fun vid and they happen to be on LTHTs, there's no instruction or judgement about whether you should imitate them. And Jinya Nishiwaki's in it and he's cool so there.
The point i was trying to make was that just becuase an expert CAN do something like this on a HT, doesn't mean that for your average rider the HT is the best or most appropriate tool.
+1, can't stand the feeling of a hardtail with long forks. Feels far more balanced with shorter ones. Plus it gets the bb and front end lower
I've yet to see a bike that can balance itself without a rider on board. 😉 How low a BB and front end do you need? Lower BB = more stable but harder to pop up and less clearance, lower front end = better on flatter stuff, worse on steeper stuff. Everything's a compromise and there are riders and terrain for whom longer forks perform better.
I've been riding my BMX on a mostly offroad commute for some months now - and the bridleway is getting a bit knackered in this weather, with potholes and suchlike appearing. On the rough bits I have to practically manual through them - the rear wheel will roll over most things if my legs drive and pump through but the front wheel will hook up and stop dead on the tiniest things. Make the terrain rougher and the wheels bigger and it's just the same - your legs can drive (not in the pedalling sense) the rear wheel through much rougher stuff than the front wheel will roll through.
It's partly because the legs are acting as suspension and partly because the bike's frame works like trailing arm rear suspension with a rearward axle path, because the rider is much heavier than the bike, so the rider's mass pivots the bike forwards thus lifting the rear wheel. When the front wheel hits a bump the rider's mass still pivots the bike forwards thus pushing the front wheel down, making the bump much worse!
I've yet to see a bike that can balance itself without a rider on board.
I just mean it feels weird if there's a load of suspension on the front whilst the back of the bike is still solid (other than your legs). Dunno, I came to mtb from bmx so I don't like having a wallowy bike. I have to run my suspension hard to keep it feeling "right" to me. Tried various fork lengths on the Blender, BFe and Trailstar and 125ish always feels like the sweet spot. And there are no issues getting a Blender to "pop" whilst still being stable and fast, if you've ever ridden one you'll know how much of a fun bike it is!
Sorry for the on topic post lads, I don't regret moving from my Zesty to a hardtail at all and its been a couple of years now.
Another advocate of long travel hardtails feeling wrong.
For my mountain biking, i wouldn't without a full sus. If i had the choice, i wouldn't be without a hardtail too, but simply can't afford it.
I think if the terrain you ride properly warrants full sus, you'll regret only having a hardtail, if your terrain only warrants a hardtail, it's no fun only having a full sus.
It depends where you ride and what you like.
Which hard tails would you people class as good all rounders then?decent for climbing but not xc race bikes,but also decent when pointing down but not a long travel slack hardcore hard tail.I too am looking for inspiration for a future hardtail purchase but want something that sits nicely in the middle,any ideas ??sorry if this should be a different thread but I thought it was relative.
Are you wanting to stick to 26" wheels?
I don't mind,I'm just wanting recommendations for decent all round hard tails to have a closer look at and test if possible.It would mainly be used for Cannock chase and trail centres ,llandegla and the likes.
Rode my Blender at Cannock on Monday and it was fine, not even bothered by the slightly slack seat angle - looks slack on paper but to actually ride its fine... probably not one to go for if you're tall though.
I ride a blue pig, i get on really well with the long travel/slack angles. but i've been thinking about changing to a full bouncer. But then i keep looking at the slackine, it's a lovely bike.
I have decided to make the change looking at bfe, chromag stylus will be run with 160/130 dual position lyrics, any ideas/alternatives I am missing