For the last few years I've been using my old Kona Lavadome frame with Midge bars and a trekking chainset for touring. Obviously it has clearance for fat tyres so I've also been using it as an old school rigid MTB. This works well when I go away with Mrs Spin as I can just change tyres to ride off or on road.
However, it being what it is there are a few issues mainly to do with reach and weight so I'm thinking about a new frame. It needs to be a proper MTB frame for the angles and fattish tyre clearance but also have rack mounts for touring.
Any suggestions?
Ta.
A Sonder Broken Road is very high on my list for just such a thing.
I love my Genesis Longitude for loaded and unloaded riding, otherwise a Marin Pine Mountain or Kona Unit X might be worth a look.
A Sonder Broken Road is very high on my list for just such a thing
I should probably have added that I'm on a budget of about £500!
And I was thinking about 26" wheels as I can just switch stuff over to keep the costs down.
Edit: I'm starting to realise that might really limit choice so I'm open to other suggestions
Sonder Frontier is cheaper, has rack mounts, £240.
Pinnacle Ramin? Plenty of models, this is cheap as chips and looks suitable:
Pinnacle Ramin
Cheers but needs to be available frame only and it doesn't look like that is. And it doesn't seem to have rack mounts!
I love my Genesis Longitude
Quite liking the look of that. Have you used it with traditional panniers? If so, is there plenty of heel clearance?
I never ride with rear panniers as most bikes ride like crap with too much weight on the back unless they are overbuilt. I can tell you it rides great with a front load, also with a bikepacking setup!
The vast majority of the touring I'll do on it will be on road and I much prefer panniers to a bike packing set up for that.
You can still fit pannier racks as it has mounts front and rear, I just think it rides better with the weight more towards the front. The rack pictured is a Specialized Pizza rack which takes panniers, I've also used a Tubus Tara for on road riding and it fit fine. I do also have a rear Tubus Vega rack, but mainly just use it to support a top bag. Unfortunately I don't have any pics with that setup.
Pick up an old Inbred frame?
[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1754/40861455270_79fcd2cd0f_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1754/40861455270_79fcd2cd0f_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/25fMD4u ]IMG_2908[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152483482@N05/ ]Shawn McFarlane[/url], on Flickr
An old Inbred did cross my mind.
Thanks steezysix.
An old Inbred did cross my mind.
Or a new Jones?
I have both an old Lava Dome (1996) and a Longitude (2017), so to compare those:
You can certainly get more reach with the Longitude. The back end is longer, too, so if you're already using panniers you needn't worry about heel clearance. You won't save weight—the old Lava Domes are pretty light—but being longer and heavier and having a slacker front end you'll get a more stable platform for loading up.
I suspect much the same applies with other framesets: you won't save weight, but you can find stuff with more reach.
Salsa Fargo, although it would be dropped bar rather than flat bar...still accept all the luggage configurations you require and with clearance for 29er tyres up to 2.4inch.
If you don't mind a straight steerer and the weight penalty of steel, you could do a lot worse than a Singular Swift (there's a touring fork available too); can be set up with flat or dropped bars.
Thanks for that Bez. I'd looked at the dimensions of the Longitude and realised that as with lots of MTBs it might be problematic running it with drops as the reach is a good bit longer than the Kona.
Inbred or Scandal would be my choice
I didn't see the bit about the midge bars, sorry! As someone else suggested, the Vagabond from Genesis might be a better option than the Longitude, same frame material, rack mounts, etc but designed for drop bars.
it might be problematic running it with drops as the reach is a good bit longer than the Kona.
Ah, sorry. Got the wrong end of the stick: I assumed the problem with reach was too little of it, as old frames tended to have less than current ones.
In which case, as above, you may be better off looking for a frameset designed for drop bars, though there aren't many which will take MTB sized tyres. Salsa, Surly and Singular are probably the main options that I know of.
Or you can just size down. Remember that the more rise you have above the top of the headset, the less actual reach you have, so you need to factor that in, especially when using an MTB frame with drop bars where you'd typically need a fair bit of rise.
DON'T run drop bars on a frame that was designed for flat bars.
DON’T run drop bars on a frame that was designed for flat bars.
Unless it works fine, in which case just do what you want.
It would be fair to say "don't set up a bike to ride well with flat bars and then simply take the bars out of the stem and shove some drops in". *That's* going to suck, sure. But if you're aware of the sizing/geometry implications of going to drops and you can choose your frame size you can usually make something work.
in which case just do what you want
No, I won't allow it.
Charlie the Bikemonger has £300 off Fargo frames at present, the original bikepacking distance bike of that ilk really
I'm starting to realise I've strayed into moon on a stick territory. I want a proper mountain bike frame for tyre clearance and off road capability but I want to run drops and most MTB frames have a longer reach than I'd like.
Not really, you're after a "monstercross" frame, the sort of thing people had to bodge in the past but thankfully quite a few companies make nowadays. Both the Fargo and Vagabond will easily clear 29" x 2.0" tyres.
This guy has a medium sized Fargo in stock, and is keen to see it go as he no longer stocks Salsa following the loss of UK distributor, worth inquiring about:
https://www.onemorebicycle.co.uk/
I’m starting to realise I’ve strayed into moon on a stick territory. I want a proper mountain bike frame for tyre clearance and off road capability but I want to run drops and most MTB frames have a longer reach than I’d like.
The problem is the budget, but really the bigger problem is that framesets are too expensive...
A Salsa Fargo would do everything you want but the frameset with a carbon fork is €900-1000. The cheap option would be the Vagabond.
And then there are things like the All City Gorilla Monsoon, Bombtrack Hook Ext, or Fairlight Secan. Which are 27.5 gravel/adventure/whatever geometry bikes that can clear 2.1-2.2 tyres, and in the case of the Gorilla Monsoon even 2.4.
In this category there is also the Kona Sutra LTD but I think it's not easy to get a frame outside the US.
Proper MTB geometry is nice, but really with these types of bikes if you want to get really rowdy the things holding you back are the drop bar and the lack of suspension.
The problem is the budget
Yes, that too.
Proper MTB geometry is nice, but really with these types of bikes if you want to get really rowdy the things holding you back are the drop bar and the lack of suspension.
Really, more so than the OP's Kona Lavadome? Most 'monster cross' frames are suspension corrected, and can easily run a short travel fork if you wish.
Really, more so than the OP’s Kona Lavadome? Most ‘monster cross’ frames are suspension corrected, and can easily run a short travel fork if you wish.
Yes.
You can descend pretty good while holding the drops, but it's a bit awkward position, and jumps suck. Even a narrow straight bar offers more control. I really love drop bars, I regularly ride my gravel bike down rocky singletrack. But I can still see that other than comfort straight bars simply beat drop bars.
I know that some of these frames are suspension corrected. I think the Vagabond isn't, the fork is not that long, and the headtube is not that short. Out of the 650b "gravel" frames I suggested non of them are suspension corrected.
Fargo, yup you can run a suspension fork. But again, budget. You're throwing away the carbon fork from an already not cheap frameset, and adding a suspension fork which again is not cheap.
Fargo, yup you can run a suspension fork. But again, budget. You’re throwing away the carbon fork from an already not cheap frameset, and adding a suspension fork which again is not cheap.
Don't mistake the Fargo for the Cutthroat, the Fargo has steel forks and accepts 27.5 as well as 29er wheels. The Cutthroat has a carbon fork and is not recommended to run 27.5.
Don’t mistake the Fargo for the Cutthroat, the Fargo has steel forks and accepts 27.5 as well as 29er wheels. The Cutthroat has a carbon fork and is not recommended to run 27.5.
I'm not mistaking it. 🙂 Depends which version you're talking about. I know the older ones came with steel forks and the cheaper model still comes with it.
Unless talking about old stock I haven't seen a steel fork frame available seperately, but maybe my google-ing skills are not up to date.
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Salsa/Fargo-27-5-29-Rahmenkit-Modell-2018-p60668/
And there is of course the Ti...
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Salsa/Fargo-27-5-29-29-Titanium-Frameset-2017-Model-p57941/
Bez +1
my inbred works because height wise I am between 16 an 18 but had a 16 frame and I had enough steerer for 40mm spacers
How about a pic of the kona? Not much can’t be overcome with a silly stem and most of the suggestions above won’t be lighter
How about a pic of the kona? Not much can’t be overcome with a silly stem and most of the suggestions above won’t be lighter
I'm kind of coming round to this idea. Every now and again I think I should replace it for one reason or another but when I look into the alternatives they're very expensive and not that much better. Plus it does get some attention from those in the know!
Cheers for all the suggestions, I think it's come down to suck it up and buy a Fargo or just tinker with the Kona and keep it going for another 28 years!
This type of bike is always a tough call, it's one i've been pondering for a while. On the spectrum of wider-tyred drop-bar bikes and rigid mtb/adventure/tourer bikes, this is something of an illusive nexus. It's the collision point of compromises between Road and MTB DNA and their associated advantages/disadvantages. There is as yet no one bike which brings together adequately; acceptable speed, position, and lightness of a road bike; the strength, stability and adaptability of a tourer; or the right handling and full tyre clearance of an mtb.
Many bikes mentioned above come close and can meet most criteria, you just end up having to figure out which compromise you can cope with based on your riding. I've always liked the fargo and Bombtrack have the right ideas, but both are expensive and fairly heavy. Too many steel frames really are getting expensive, and there aren't many cheaper alternatives like the inbred anymore. Alloy is where the more budget friendly options are: If giant did a frame only of the ToughRoad SLR GX i'd consider one, and I really like the Pinnacle Pyrolite, maybe with more clearance.
I have a V2 Scandal for sale. Rack mounts of you need them:
I want a proper mountain bike frame for tyre clearance and off road capability but I want to run drops and most MTB frames have a longer reach than I’d like.
So you size down and run a long steerer. The result isn't necessarily pretty but position-wise it works. But, as above, you're not going to save weight, and you may be able to reduce the reach (and/or increase the stack, which may give broadly similar results) on your Kona anyway. What's the current spacers/stem setup?
Current set up is the original threaded 1" project 2 fork with a quill to threadless adaptor and a short quite high rise stem, can't remember the exact dimensions off hand. Looking at it I could probably go even shorter.
Have you considered something like this?
I've always found that sort of set up to be unpleasantly flexy, obviously the adaptor is pretty much the same thing but I run it as low as I possible which reduces the flex. I think an even shorter, higher rise stem will give me what I need.
Of course an important element in this thread was good old fashioned N+1 desire!
The universal Nemesis 😉
Have you considered Jones loop bars as an alternative to drops? Lots of hand positions for touring comfort and no compromise offroad IME.
There is as yet no one bike which brings together adequately; acceptable speed, position, and lightness of a road bike; the strength, stability and adaptability of a tourer; or the right handling and full tyre clearance of an mtb.
I think thats the case with most things, e.g. you don't go offroading with an F1 car. 🙂
I would still like to try a Cutthroat with a carbon MTB wheelset, the lightest 100mm suspension fork available, an Eagle drop bar groupset, fast XC tyres, flared drop bars, and a dropper post. 😀
hollyboni, you mean like this, although it doesn’t have suspension forks:
Arrgh, my eyes!
Oddly, I recently bought an old (more recent than yours) Lava Dome off here for exactly the same purpose you want to replace yours.
Surly Ogre with Jones bars
I use it for touring with the kids. With strong wheels, racks and panniers
And I use it for bike packing after swapping wheels and tires and ditching the racks
It's a lovely bike . Everytime I get back on it after riding my other bikes, it just feels right and full of possibilities.
In fact I'm doing the French Divide on it. Starting tomorrow.
Re picture requests for the Kona, I seem to be incapable of posting from Flickr which is where I've always put pics to post on here in the past. Can anyone remind or re-educate me?
Otherwise, I've just had 3 brilliant days on the old faithful and think a new stem might be more appropriate than a new bike but thanks again for all the suggestions. Can't help but feel that those old Konas were well ahead of the game and it's great to think in this throwaway society that my parents bought me something aged 15 that I'm still using at 42!
I recently bought an old (more recent than yours) Lava Dome off here
You're lucky I remembered I'd donated my nice 26" wheels to my son because I very nearly snapped that one up quickly 😀
Hi Dave
(waves!)
I may have the answer! How about a Surly Troll? £499 from Triton in a 16 inch frame and fork set. Designed to run 26 or 650b. Fully rack mounted up the wazoo. No pissing about with silly press fit nonsense. Oh and you can run them with drop bars.
Weight wise, I doubt you will notice any difference but they are great bikes.
I have a Fargo and love it. It would mean more expense for you though. The question I would ask is whether you would pay a few hundred more for one that you would get 28 years use out of?
A bit left field but have you considered a Cotic Escapade? I currently run a gravel bike that does 700c x43 with ease and 650b up to a 2.2 (and more at the front). The Cotic is a similar idea. Given your cross skills, I reckon that would be a great choice for you. Rack points on the frame too! I am loving the versatility both on and off road of gravel bikes.
Auch just buy a new bike. The Kona owes you nothing. Start making new memories with your next bike!
Sanny
Cheers Sanny, need a get together at some point!
Auch just buy a new bike.
I'm faithful Sanny, not a bike slut like you!
I admire your faith no matter how misplaced it is!
I prefer the term bike connoisseur. Bikeslut is a tad too pejorative for my sensitive soul!
Oh and aye to a ride! The Gorms? Torridon? Afric?
+1 for the Fargo which is also run with Jones Loops.
Keep Peddaling built a ti one which might be on their gallery.
The mtbr fargo thread has just about every combination of Fargo build in there somewhere.
http://forums.mtbr.com/salsa/salsa-fargo-thread-467422.html#post13760324
Ti456 here - brilliant touring bike - just spent 5 days cycling round Mayo / Galway on mine in July and was spot on