Riding down the road happily on my way to work,nobody behind me, nobody in front of me, approaching a layby on my left, suddenly the single car coming the other way pulls across in front of me to do a u-turn in the layby, no indcation, nothing, just yanked on the steering wheel and into the layby.
Me hauling on the brakes pulling my best "oh sh111111t!" face as I roll alongside the (now facing the same way as me but in the layby) car , trying to make eye contact with the driver, who is looking straight forward I might add, he then pulls out of the layby right beside me narrowly missing taking me out again!
Now, perhaps I should have mentioned my setup this morning....
> Commuter with Neon Orange Hi-Vis Bar tape
> Exposure Maxx D on the bars, on low but still....
> Hi-Vis Yellow waterproof jacket
> bright blue shorts
> and oh, yes, pulling a ****ing great trailer with a Hi-Vis Neon Orange dry sac on it, and comical hi-vis flag on a pole!
I couldn't have been more visible if I'd tried.
People pulling out of junctions I can anticipate, people turning left in front of me without indicating I can plan for, even people pulling across me into side roads give some warning, but random u-turns in front of you when you're the only two vehicles within 100 yards just caught me by surprise...
grrrrr
He wouldn't have noticed you kicking his wing mirror off then
Now, perhaps I should have mentioned my setup this morning....> Commuter with Neon Orange Hi-Vis Bar tape
> Exposure Maxx D on the bars, on low but still....
> Hi-Vis Yellow waterproof jacket
> bright blue shorts> and oh, yes, pulling a **** great trailer with a Hi-Vis Neon Orange dry sac on it, and comical hi-vis flag on a pole!
Frankly dressed like that you deserved everything you nearly got...maybe he did it on purpose to get such an abomination off our roads?
I'm beginning to believe they have seen me but just don't give a shit.
Only beginning?
> Hi-Vis Yellow waterproof jacket
I don't believe it, you must have been wearing black, as we've been told that hi-vis prevents stuff like this.
[i]Only beginning? [/i]
I only ride on the road occasionally as I feel a lot safer flinging myself down wooded single track at inappropriate speeds.
Always keep a few pebbles in your pocket.
Deviant - Frankly dressed like that you deserved everything you nearly got...maybe he did it on purpose to get such an abomination off our roads?
that thought had occurred actually, I was very careful to take a route where I was least likely to be seen by anyone I know.
I don't believe it, you must have been wearing black, as we've been told that hi-vis prevents stuff like this.
I was wearing black socks, maybe that was it, their invisibility field must have leaked out over the rest of me
Why didn't you ring your bell?
Were you wearing a helmet?
Not using the above? It's your fault.
Why didn't you ring your bell?
dammit, I knew there was something I forgot
Were you wearing a helmet?
yes, yes I was, can't get me on that one! ner ner!
Note the reg and call plod to report a suspected drunk/drugged driver.
If he/she's paying that little attention they could well be under the influence and if nothing else getting a knock on the door should put the wind up them.
I'm beginning to believe they have seen me but just don't give a shit
more than likely this ^^^
Note the reg
too late now, but I'll try and remember for next time, in between braking, and swerving, and pulling funny faces, and being incredulous, but I might have to forego one of those, I'm not sure my multi-tasking is up to it.
Yup. This why, despite my intention to rise above things, I end up kicking bodywork, spitting through open windows and using very unpleasant language.
Try and ride with an onboard camera and just report this type of incident to the police. Every road cyclist should do it. Once the police get flooded up to their eyeballs with thousands of reports maybe something will start getting done. Id love to be able to submit camera footage of a dangerous overtake or near miss / dangerous manoeuvre and see the registered owner get an immediate fine through the post. If its not paid in 14 days then add 3 points too.
You probably jumped a red light earlier
Try and ride with an onboard camera and just report this type of incident to the police. Every road cyclist should do it
But then I'd turn into some kind of wheeled hooligan who goes [i]looking [/i]for incidents to post on you tube.... apparently
was it your wife???? just a thought like 😉
you were obviously going too fast
Yeah, people don't care. I spent a week in Germany this Summer and I saw hundreds of cyclists on the roads everyday. 99% didn't wear helmets, 100% of them didn't wear any hi-viz s**t. I rode a massive "city" bike there too, wearing sandals and no helmet. I was shocked that on every junction I had right of way, I didn't even have to look if there are any cars joining from the side roads, pulling out from the shop car parks, etc... If the drivers could not overtake me leaving a whole lane gap - they just stayed behind. No beeping, no swearing, no fighting for your place on the road...
It's a culture thing. In the UK "bikes don't pay road tax" - we all know that issue...
But don't worry! In Poland, my home country, you'd need to run across the road on a pedestrian crossing, hoping that nothing will run you over... LOL
Probably drunk / drugged / half asleep / fiddling with satnav / phone.
Don't let it distract you from the real menace - cyclists RLJing and riding like they own the road, blah blah etc, lycra, blah, silly helmets, no insurance etc.
[s]You[/s] Some other person on a bike probably jumped a red light earlier
...or rode on the pavement
Some other person on a bike probably jumped a red light earlier
yes, must be that, maybe i'll kick someone else's car later to get him back...
In this situation I am tempted to grab my U-lock and lob it at the car.
Not done it yet though.
EDIT and apparently if you'd not had high viz on it'd have been your fault.
I was riding a road section mid afternoon , good lighting ,wearing an orange jacket with reflective stripes on sleeves .passing a t-junction - I'm on the main carriageway .an old lad pulls slowly up top the junction and stops, looks both way several times and exactly at the moment I am directly in front of her she pulls out pushing me accross the road and .fortunately stopping as I am falling over half way accross the road with a car coming the other way.She kept saying she hadn't seen me and was shaking like a shitting dog.I stood around to question whether she was fit to be driving but had to get riding again before everything stiffened up .
I'm beginning to believe they have seen me but just don't give a shit.
This
On Friday a taxi performed a U turn in front of me.
He had his window down and was looking straight at me.
I said "Hey!" (not too aggressively just trying to get him to acknowledge my existence) He just looked right through me so i said "Just ignore me then" and In response I got "Aye I fin will ignore you ya f*in p****"
Conclusion: There are many arseholes in this world and some of them drive taxis
I'm a champion of tbe hi viz route, but nothing will protect you from idiots.
Better driver training, enforcement and punishments are the only long term solutions. Then I will stop wearing hi viz and using lights in daylight.
[i]punishments[/i]
I'm a firm believer in this. If you can catch them.
Is this not the second incident recently of someone on here wearing a yellow top and blue shorts and having a motorist try to take them out. Fashion rage?
richmtb - MemberI'm beginning to believe they have seen me but just don't give a shit.
This
On Friday a taxi performed a U turn in front of me.
He had his window down and was looking straight at me.
I said "Hey!" (not too aggressively just trying to get him to acknowledge my existence) He just looked right through me so i said "Just ignore me then" and In response I got "Aye I fin will ignore you ya f*in p****"
Conclusion: There are many arseholes in this world and some of them drive taxis
At the risk of soundling like an internet hardman, that sort of nonsense would have resulted in the red mist descending and damage to his taxi ensuing whilst i utter the words "ignore this then you f'ing c**t".
[i]I'm beginning to believe they have seen me but just don't give a shit. [/i]
Unfortunately this plus lots. The Audi estate was a prime example of this on Tuesday night. He was determined he was coming past no matter what. The part that really got my goat was the bicycle wheel visible in the boot of the car as he squeezed past. Utter chump of the highest order. Oh and I was wearing a yellow jacket, yellow gloves and yellow overshoes with a 100 lumen rear light and reflectives on everything.
There seems to be a lot of idiots out there, who don't seem to comprehend that they are incapable of driving a vehicle safely and then blame others for it. Had it this morning at a roundabout on a dual carriageway, I was in middle lane to go straight on (in big black 4x4, lights on) White van man in inside lane pulls away (also going straight on) then sticks half his van in my lane nearly taking my front end off, causing me to brake. Then decided to stick his finger up as I went passed, because I beeped my horn at him.
These idiots just seem to drive from A to B with absolutely no consideration or concept that the roads are there for everyone to use, not just solely for themselves. Trouble is there are no Police out and about to 'educate' these neanderthal morons!
Yeah, people don't care. I spent a week in Germany this Summer and I saw hundreds of cyclists on the roads everyday. 99% didn't wear helmets, 100% of them didn't wear any hi-viz s**t. I rode a massive "city" bike there too, wearing sandals and no helmet. I was shocked that on every junction I had right of way, I didn't even have to look if there are any cars joining from the side roads, pulling out from the shop car parks, etc... If the drivers could not overtake me leaving a whole lane gap - they just stayed behind. No beeping, no swearing, no fighting for your place on the road...
They also have laws that give cyclist's & pedestrians right of way over cars. If they hit you they are automatically in deep doo doo 😆
an old lad pulls slowly up top
had to get riding again before everything stiffened up
You are Wayne Rooney and I claim my £5 😉
Mister P - Member
..... reflectives on everything.
Brings a whole new perspective to willy waving...
Bet if you road through a red light or on the pavement they would see you 😉
She kept saying she hadn't seen me
She probably hadn't.
Lost in the Saccadic Masking and all that:
[url= http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/ ]What an RAF pilot can teach us about being safe on the road (London Cyclist)[/url] - should be compulsory reading for anyone on the road!
Presumed liability should definately be introduced:
[url= https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/57804 ]Linky[/url]
It won't, though. Too much of a war on the poor downtrodden motorist... 🙁
And agree 100% that SMIDSY is usually code for SMIDSYBIDGAF ("sorry mate, I did see you but I didn't give a f***")
At the risk of soundling like an internet hardman, that sort of nonsense would have resulted in the red mist descending and damage to his taxi ensuing whilst i utter the words "ignore this then you f'ing c**t".
A former courier friend of mine did exactly that.
Properly smashed a car up using a D-lock. The driver sat there too terrified to get out in case the lock was used on him and he had no avenue of escape. Not advocating that by any means but I can see why it happened - the final incident that broke the camel's back.
[i]Brings a whole new perspective to willy waving... [/i]
I didn't have relflectives on that, I couldn't find one small enough 😳
Many people don't give a shit, they view you as an impostor on 'their' roads, and act aggressively towards you as a result.
Some are just crap drivers.
Most just don't realise how fast you're going, they see a cyclist and assume they have plenty of time to manoeuvre, blissfully unaware that you were doing 20-30mph and are having to haul on the anchors to avoid them.
In the case of the OP, the first option sounds about right.
Not sure about presumed liability, the current system would work IF the Police and courts and insurers took a properly firm line with drivers, or cyclists, who break the law.
Like most social issues, we don't need more laws, we need to use tbe ones we have properly.
hmm and what happens when everyone ignores the current laws? We get new ones, I reckon it's about time we had strict liability.Like most social issues, we don't need more laws, we need to use tbe ones we have properly.
I've said this before... I almost killed a cyclist as I didn't see him (he was already on the roundabout and well lit, although why he was on a dual carriageway fast and busy industrial estate roundabout when there are dedicated cyclepaths around it for miles who knows but hey)..
On alot of roads - just because legally you can ride on the road doesn't mean you should (using common sense). Same applies to ALOT of A roads IMO.
If they haven't seen you they haven't seen you. Unfortunately most people assume where the hazard will be and look there and make the manoeuvre. They don't look near or far thereby missing cyclists and motorcyclists.
I use to commute on one of these, plus Police-styled reflective jacket and white helmet. Folk often didn't see me, or more correctly didn't LOOK.
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On alot of roads - just because legally you can ride on the road doesn't mean you should (using common sense). Same applies to ALOT of A roads IMO
And that's how this country has got [i]cyclists[/i] thinking..
hora - Member
I've said this before... I almost killed a cyclist as I didn't see him (he was already on the roundabout and well lit, although why he was on a dual carriageway fast and busy industrial estate roundabout when there are dedicated cyclepaths around it for miles who knows but hey)..
Time trialling, obviously...
And that's how this country has got cyclists thinking..
The A dual carriageway link from Stockport to Hope/Edale etc - regularly cars do circa 80mph down its fairly wide open sweepiness yet you still see the odd cyclist risking it. No ta.
On alot of roads - just because legally you can ride on the road doesn't mean you should (using common sense). Same applies to ALOT of A roads IMO
This is why the UK needs to come in line with the rest of Europe with regards to Presumed Liability, given that the UK is one of the only major countries that does not have it. It forces drivers to slow down and respect vulnerable road users.
It should be the responsibility of the operator of a vehicle to ensure the safety of any vulnerable road users that they are around. After all they have been 'trained' to use it and know the damage it can cause. If you walk down the street and a Policeman is carrying a gun, you don't expect him to shoot you, then say well you should have been wearing body armour, it is therefore your fault. You expect him to use the gun as he has been trained with it and safely around general members of the public.
hora, even for you that's an odd post...
in 5 lines you've managed to admit to not seeing a cyclist, blame him for that, and then also suggest that other cyclists should stay off other roads! (presumably in case you/others don't see them as well?)
Perhaps instead it would be nice if people looked where they were going.
FWIW, this was on a normal road, one lane going each way, on a wide straight section, in good visibility, with very little traffic, just me and the car in question, in a 30mph limit.
Never mind that, it's A LOT, not alot. 😉
On alot of roads - just because legally you can [s]ride[/s] drive fast on the road doesn't mean you should (using common sense)
because there may be other perfectly legal and expected users on the road, like cyclists, mopeds, horses, milk floats, tricycles, traction engines, or even broken down vehicles, debris, animals... need I go on?
Your solution seems to be to push the vulnerable off the roads, and then justify it by saying its too dangerous for them (because you* make it dangerous), hardly a sensible and forward thinking approach is it?
*maybe not you personally, but you as a member of the collective group of users introducing the danger.
in 5 lines you've managed to admit to not seeing a cyclist, blame him for that, and then also suggest that other cyclists should stay off other roads! (presumably in case you/others don't see them as well?)Perhaps instead it would be nice if people looked where they were going.
+1
Maybe just an idea, but perhaps what he was doing was going about his business. Maybe going / coming from work or whatever. The same as you probably. Or maybe he was a thrill seeker getting kicks out of incompetent drivers trying to kill him.
No - I'm saying on certain roads (i.e. alot of dual carriageway A roads) and my own experience- in Trafford Park. If you know the area its lethal at rush hour for drivers nevermind cyclists. The cyclist I almost took out was on a huge sweeping two-lane roundabout where at rush hour its normal for people to enter the roundabout in an organised madness of 30mph+ without stopping to get across before a car to your right is on you.
With this is mind - and the fact that the bloody area has cycle lanes galore why would you cycle on there at rush hour?
I've had idiots in cars go to overtake/undertake you at speed to make an exit that you are passing (to go off the next one) - even though I'm in the correct lane and indicating with my right indicator still)- trucks pull out with a car still on the roundabout - and plenty of crashes because of all these.
Why would you leave the safety of a cycle lane under such circumstances?
Unless it was in a rush yourself and wanted to save yourself 1minute of your time on the total commute?
"Why would you leave the safety of a cycle lane under such circumstances?"
Why does that matter? You didn't see him, you should have seen him, and that's all there is to it as far as I can see
^^^
How does any of this relate to the OP or thread discussion so far? Far as I can see it's just more 'cyclists shouldn't use the roads round my way' dressed up in "Careful out there" resigned world-weariness.
Unless it was in a rush yourself and wanted to save yourself 1minute of your time on the total commute?
Is his rush less legitimate than yours?
I mean presumably you were there yourself for a valid reason, he might just as well have asked you why you didn't take a different route, afterall:
If you know the area its lethal at rush hour for drivers nevermind cyclists.
The cyclist I almost took out was on a huge sweeping two-lane roundabout where at rush hour its normal for people to enter the roundabout in an organised madness of 30mph+ without stopping to get across before a car to your right is on you
And again, your're suggesting instead of fixing the cause of problem, we just shunt the victms off somewhere else.
fix the behaviour and it's no longer dangerous for anyone.
There are many legitimate reasons for not using a particular cycle path, they've been discussed to death, but it always comes back to this same argument of pushing the vulnerable out of the way so that the less vulnerable can carry on behaving dangerously.
Just stop being dangerous and we can all get along safely!
Sadly this has drifted a bit off topic, not surprising though as these threads always degenerate into the same madness.
stop worrying about it and concentrate on your drivingWhy would you leave the safety of a cycle lane under such circumstances?
stop worrying about it and concentrate on your driving
yes, after I've changed the CD
hora: why would [i]you[/i] drive through there at rush hour??
There are back roads galore and I hear that area is "lethal at rush hour for drivers".
Why would you leave the safety of a back roads under such circumstances?
Unless it was in a rush yourself and wanted to save yourself 1minute of your time on the total commute?
There are no backroads there. To get to and from the centre of Trafford Park you need to use...Trafford Park.
It was a rhetorical question supposed to make you see the irrelevance of questioning why someone should choose to be there.
Their justification for being there has no impact at all on your responsibility not to hit them.
If there are a collection of fast moving, hectic roads at rush hour with accidents/near misses - would you ride on those same roads at those times?
I most certainly wouldn't. Again, sometimes just because you can shouldn't mean you should. Self preservation and listening to that little voice in your head should take precedent.
Another road- different road locally -the A56 past timperley and Sale. In both directions its just not safe at mid-week rush hour. There ARE back roads that I use. Often though I see cyclists going up and down.
Not a chance. Again, self preservation should overcome time saving.
Air Zound bike horns are good for attracting attention, they're 115 decibels.
so I presume you drive everywhere at 15mph?Again, self preservation should overcome time saving.
That's a really bleak way of looking at it.
What you're basically saying is that in your opinion, a section of road appears too dangerous to ride on, and you'll avoid it. That's fair enough, your risk assessment. However, for someone who isn't a really keen, confident rider they might decide riding to the shops is too risky because of the careless / dangerous driving. They might decide it's too dangerous for their kids to ride to school. You also admit your own driving to careless from time to time to illustrate how dangerous it is.
The whole thing is messed up. We, as a society, should be aiming for a point where people don't feel scared to walk or cycle because of shoddy driving.
FFS
If there are a collection of fast moving, hectic roads at rush hour with accidents/near misses - would you ride on those same roads at those times?
If I needed to, yes. Maybe they need to be somewhere at a certain time that entails using that road, you know, like commuting.
Again, sometimes just because you can shouldn't mean you should.
That's a judgement call, yours is totally invalid when applied to someone else. They're not doing anything wrong in using the road, your 'might is right' attitude is bizarre, frankly.
Self preservation and listening to that little voice in your head should take precedent.
In your case I'd suggest you stop listening to the voices in your head.
There are no backroads there. To get to and from the centre of Trafford Park you need to use...Trafford Park.
Bollocks. I lived in Sale for a couple of years. There are back roads around Trafford Park if you [i]really[/i] want to avoid the dual carriageway.
But you won't use them because they take longer. Even though the alternative is apparently "lethal".
So if you make that decision, why are you so quick to question someone else making it?
I'm beginning to believe they have seen me but just don't give a shit.Unfortunately this plus lots. The Audi estate was a prime example of this on Tuesday night. He was determined he was coming past no matter what. The part that really got my goat was the bicycle wheel visible in the boot of the car as he squeezed past. Utter chump of the highest order. Oh and I was wearing a yellow jacket, yellow gloves and yellow overshoes with a 100 lumen rear light and reflectives on everything.
You had me at 'Audi' - you needn't have even added 'Estate'. Had to take the dog to the Vets, to have stitches removed, this morning - in the 115 minutes each way drive, there must have been at least 6 examples of awful driving from Audis. I don't like stereotyping people (apart from Nissan Micra drivers), but Audis really are driven badly far too often.
I'm kinda with Hora on banning cyclists from (propper motorway styled) DC's, it's a daft situation where we were never allowed to ride on motorways because it's too dangerous, yet DC's can be motorways in all but name and some people ride on them. but as bikes are allowed there you have to look out for the occasional suicidal nutter.
Roundabouts though, you're suposed to be going relatively slowly and looking out for others. I have to turn right through this on my evening commute. There is a cycle path through it but it involves 6 (or maybe 7 I can't remember) toucan crossings which take forever to change, whereas if I join the traffic I can get round it in one sequence.
I broadly disagree, if it's a 70 and there are [b]good[/b] alternative road links then [i]maybe*[/i] make it a "special" A road, there are a few about, if it's slower and the alternatives are shite or none existent then obviously leave well alone. DCs [i]should[/i] be safe, yes there's the speed differential but good sight lines, multiple lanes, few junctions, if drivers actually looked where they were going, learned to share and overtook properly they'd probably be fine. (i'd still prefer fast prioritised cycle only infrastructure but I'm not going to get it anytime soon)I'm kinda with Hora on banning cyclists from (propper motorway styled) DC's.
*removing cyclists from some DCs would mean even fewer drivers expecting and looking out for them on the few remaining ones.
I've not read any posts bar the first one but I had three very near misses yesterday morning which is pretty unusual.
First one driver comes out of the 1st exit of a roundabout I'm in the middle of, completely oblivious to my presence.
Next one driver does a u-turn in the road into my path then slams on the brakes after spotting me.
Lastly driver pulls out of side road into my path.
I was wearing a red jacket, had a bright light on constant and another on flash and it wasn't even dark.
I reckon the lazy bastards just didn't clear there side windows so couldn't see anything coming or not.
Fortunately I had the road sense to expect these things so was prepared to act accordingly but a less experienced rider would have been knocked off.
[i]I've said this before... I almost killed a cyclist as I didn't see him (he was already on the roundabout and well lit, although why he was on a dual carriageway fast and busy industrial estate roundabout when there are dedicated cyclepaths around it for miles who knows but hey)..[/i]
Okay I can't resist. There are quite a few roads I wouldn't ride on and I see others on them and think wtf but its there choice. Can you explain why you failed to see the rider please?
Doesn't matter how visible you are if the driver doesn't actually look.
Yeh I know and I presume that's why hora didn't see the rider. The incident he described is similar to my experience yesterday, although not a dual carraigway, just wondering why.
[url= https://www.google.co.uk/maps/ @55.7670242,-4.3457049,3a,75y,53.54h,98.82t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWXRT36mxVyfnGYVjWQ5HRg!2e0]roundabout incident happened here[/url]
Cars also hit each other when the drivers don't look - so it's not just cyclists!
I'm sure horas reason will be far more complex, I'll be gutted if it was a simple smidsy
I looked, approaching at a reasonable speed (no intention to stop as it was clear), I then looked again before crossing the line. At that point mrshora shouted 'lookout the cyclist' and I immediately hit the wheel left hard to take the left junction turnoff (rather than heading straight over as I originally intended). Que angry cyclist waving/shouting. I drove on up the road and pulled in where safe/jumped out and waited for him and thoroughly apologised.
My words? I didn't see you and I checked twice.
He was lit up, wearing the kit and when I repeated it again he was shaken. So was I.
I've got good vision (tested annually), I was hydrated, not tired, know the road/area very well, wasn't blinded by sunlight, wasn't distracted by music.
It happens. Sadly. One thing I will say -similar to a motorcyclist - its a very slender/slim profile head on when seen against a urban/busy background. I can't explain away that day- just offer a possible idea why I didn't see?
In my case though the rider could have exercised abit of common sense. Trafford Park at rush hour is not a safe place for vunerable road users (or pedestrians).
I can't explain away that day
hora: read [url= http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/ ]that article on Saccadic Masking[/url] - it sounds like it may ring some bells with you.
In my case though the rider could have exercised abit of common sense. Trafford Park at rush hour is not a safe place for vunerable road users (or pedestrians).
From the sounds of it he could just as easily have been a motorcyclist or moped rider.