Why do we never talk about the environmental cost of eMTB's? Raw materials for lifetimed batteries flying around the world, distributed production chains that make normal bikes look like a joke, engines, charging, not to mention the cost of energy generation which, in most modern countries - is far from renewable?
If you're trading a car journey for an eBike journey - then you have some ethical grounds, but that's not what people are doing on here at all.
Disclaimer; I only ever buy secondhand bikes. Initially, this was because I was poor, but now it makes a lot of sense as a small way I can reduce my contribution to the problem, but I accept the impact of my leisure time is mostly in disposable consumables. Tyres, oils, bearings, and - well, for me, running shoes.
Bookmarked for when i get my supply of popcorn in
I agree, but it's only one of many reasons why they're shit.
Why do we never talk about the environmental cost of eMTB’s
Probably because It's really boring I'd guess.
Nothing to do with the original point being made, but this was in the Guardian today.
THEGUARDIAN.COM I've seen the subject crop up every now and then, so use of the word never is improper. I believe the environmental cost is outweighed by the experience of fun in the mind of the common e-biker.
but that’s not what people are doing on here at all.
I think you'll find that plenty of us on here are doing just that.
Because the industry doesn’t want you to think about it. It just wants to flog as many as can which is why they are advertising them everywhere. I’m waiting for e bike dh now the ews has caved into manufacturer pressure
What about the people who, without the health benefits of getting some exercise rather than none, would be utilising many more NHS services and all the environmental impact that entails.
Why do we never talk about the environmental cost of eMTB’s?
Because no one has any evidence and it would all be conjecture perhaps.
You don’t need a bike with an engine to get the health benefits of riding a bike
You don’t need a bike with an engine to get the health benefits of riding a bike
Obviously not, but there are some people who would not be cycling at all if it weren’t for eBikes.
It's hardly conjecture to say that the environmental impact of ebikes is far higher than that of a normal bike!!!
@oceanskipper You're saying there is no evidence for the environmental cost of battery production or burning fossil fuels to create electricity? And that it's impossible to get any health benefits from riding a bike unless you have an engine in it?
Wow, I'm glad you've settled my conscience. Job done!
but there are some people who would not be cycling at all if it weren’t for eBikes.
really. I wouldn’t start out trying a new sport by buying the most expensive version of a bike I can. Still each to their own
Disclaimer; I only ever buy secondhand bikes. Initially, this was because I was poor, but now it makes a lot of sense as a small way I can reduce my contribution to the problem,
But if no one bought second hand, less people would be able to upgrade and there would be less demand for new stuff. Therefore you are actually a big part of the problem.
I suspect most people don't think or care about it as it seems like an insignificant and niche issue that is no worse than other aspects of the consumerist lifestyle which most of us are part of. Plus, electric powered vehicles are supposed to represent the greener future. So it would seem odd to single out leisure e-bikes as an environmental disaster.
really. I wouldn’t start out trying a new sport by buying the most expensive version of a bike I can.
Probably not, but if you’re getting older/arthritic/chronically ill then they can keep you riding for longer or make the difference between riding or hanging up your helmet for good.
Why do we never talk about the environmental cost of eMTB’s?
Why do we never talk about the environmental cost of normal mtbs? Really isnt that much between the two.
I’m not a hater and I’d buy one tomorrow if I could but the amount of talentless dobbers absolutely wrecking all our trails straight lining and blowing the turns with their 25kg monster trucks is an alarming environmental cost that’s getting right on my nips.
It used to be you needed a certain amount of skill and fitness to even access them, but sadly not any more.
really. I wouldn’t start out trying a new sport by buying the most expensive version of a bike I can.
Eh? Top of the range mountain bikes with no motor can cost £10k plus. You can get an e-bike for £1500 so your argument holds no water (and neither should your ebike otherwise it will stop working!!!). Not to mention that buying a bike isn’t trying out a new sport in the same way that spending £10k on golf clubs if you’ve never played before might be. Anyway, as you say each to their own.
Another environmental downside to e-mtbs is the extra wear they place on the countryside.
One of the benefits of ebikes is the extra mileage or added laps you can do in a ride, so adding more wear per ride/rider. Not only that, but as ebikes tend to have more suspension, more aggressive tyres and hence can be ridden ‘harder’, this must also be more damaging than me mincing around on my XC bike.
I’ve given up motorbike Trackdays and replaced them with emtb’ing so I’ve prob done the environment a favour, but that wasn’t the reason for getting an ebike it was so I could lap the local trail centre quicker than any normal bike and get the adrenalin buzz that comes with it, it’s all about the speed 🤣
@funkydunc actually - people had been talking about the cost of carbon. But you're wrong, the environmental cost of e-bikes dwarves a normal bike item for item, unless either of them replace a car journey in which case I am mollified.
@clubby You're right, I'm not absconding myself from any responsibility, although I think the net cost to the world of my secondary consumption is still miniscule by comparison save the shipping if I don't buy locally. Funny you should use your other argument - I happen to be chronically ill with degenerative arthritis - and I don't see what an emtb has to do with that. Not having a motor has given me the chance to change my life by using (real) bikes to get fit.
I'm equally not suggesting that we should all go become hermits living in caves. But where you have the opportunity to make a small change that costs you little but reduces your footprint, then I think it's morally good to do so and if you don't you should feel ashamed.
So you've drawn a line at e-bikes and want everyone else to do the same. If I draw the line at flying abroad for leisure should I expect the same of you? I walk to the shops rather than drive to reduce my impact but I can't berate others for not doing the same.
I don't own an ebike by the way. Had a demo, it was great fun.
Another environmental downside to e-mtbs is the extra wear they place on the countryside.
Are you seriously putting that forward as an argument against eBikes? What utter nonsense. You’ll be saying that walking shoes put extra wear on the mountains next and people should go barefoot.
Seems to me that the biggest beef here is people using eMTBs to wreck trails for non e users which I have sympathy with if that’s the case. IME the majority of eBikes just pootle about enjoying the countryside which they have every right to do.
Anyway, live and let live. There are things far far worse than EBikes that are doing irreparable damage to the environment, so on that basis I am declaring myself out of this debate.
Why do we never talk about the environmental cost of eMTB’s?
Cuz they is FUN.
Why are people so in denial the extra wear on the trails and all the cut corners and extra lines?
It's fact! I've seen them do it, and on an Enduro course I've seen the extra depth they dig into holes in the soft parts of the track.
But everyone's gotta have their FUN.
I'm not anti the ugly bastard things, I'll need one before long! :'-) But they have their issues, no point denying it.
1) energy useage in use is minimal
2) the only significant extra environmental penalty over a non e bike is the battery which is rather polluting but again much less than an electric car and IIRC can be recycled at the end of its life
It does not take many car journeys not being done to pay that back
then I think it’s morally good to do so and if you don’t you should feel ashamed.
Good. do you own a car? do you fly abroad for holidays? do you have children?
all three of those things are far far more of an environmental cost than an e bike
"he who is without sin cast the first stone"
I’m not a hater and I’d buy one tomorrow if I could but the amount of talentless dobbers absolutely wrecking all our trails straight lining and blowing the turns
This is true in my opinion, and I’m saying this as someone who has recently bought an e-mtb (second hand).
Maybe I’m odd but I don’t get the most pleasure from it in the pursuit of “more speed, more descents” but rather from climbing stuff that I’ve never been able to do on anything but a trials or enduro bike. So, if I’d bought one of those would the environmental impact have been greater or less? - I really don’t know.
What I do know is that I certainly wouldn’t want an e-bike to be the only one that I ride, old as I am.
It’s fun, but then so is a trials bike, it’s just something different to do.
I have no idea of the range these things have? Is it viable to ride them to the trail centre? If say you live a half hour drive or just over an hour's pedal away?
I pedal to my local at that distance (12ish miles), I see a few others doing the same at various points of the journey but I've never ever seen an ebike until at the trail centre, where there is loads of them.
Putting a powered vehicle in a powered vehicle does seem daft, but then I don't know the distances/range and the conflict on the shared Paths I use might become an issue.
I've had a go on a couple of e bikes and theyre great but seem a bit needy for someone who wears bikes out like I do.
And that it’s impossible to get any health benefits from riding a bike unless you have an engine in it?
Clearly not for most people, but if you have lung damage from radiotherapy, or heart disease, or severe arthritis then quite possibly.
Twice per week I ride mine 9 miles to meet my riding mates, do a 10 mile loop with them, then ride the 9 miles back. Use between 50% to 80% depending on whether the ride follows leg day at the gym.
It just wouldn’t be feasible on my normal bike so I’d be throwing it in the van a lot more to drive over there.
Is that acceptable to the purists?
Environmental cost of gas central heating, shoes, clothes, where you buy your food and what those foodstuffs are. The list is endless.
Nothing like the higher and mightier on one single subject, yet ignoring all the others such exponents use.
Bought new tyres ?, replaced that chain ?. Get yer self flagellation whips out.
"Popcorn" Popcorn ??, get me a ****g pillow
Zzzzzz
dyna ti - those things are much less an environmental penalty that flying abroad, using a car and having children. Stopping those 3 things is the greatest contribution you can make
I also think the production of popcorn has a huge environmental impact. Heavens alone knows the damage Argee is making.
Ebikes are just another bike. I have recently decided to get fit again so am doing quite a bit of cycling. I use my road bike and my 2006 Specilaized Enduro. My wife doesn´t have time to train and get as fit so she has 2 options when I go riding
Option 1 - Stay at home
Option 2 - Bring her eMtb along for a ride with me.
When we are out in the big hill here in Austria I take my eMtb too.
This means I get to enjoy riding with my wife quite a lot. Without ebikes, I would be mostly alone riding.
I do wish people would stop saying 'I'll need one at some point' rather than saying 'I accept that one day I won't be able to ride as far and fast as I do now'.
There's still a ton of pleasure to be had just pootling round your local area. Getting old is inevitable but there's still good times to be had, just in different ways.
Twice per week I ride mine 9 miles to meet my riding mates, do a 10 mile loop with them, then ride the 9 miles back. Use between 50% to 80% depending on whether the ride follows leg day at the gym.
It just wouldn’t be feasible on my normal bike so I’d be throwing it in the van a lot more to drive over
Seems like the ideal way to use an ebike to me, avoiding using the van twice a week has to be a good thing.
9 miles each way might mean you don't need leg day at the gym though. 🙂
I think the problem is just rampant consumerism.
New bike every year etc.
And batteries in general. If its never going to be a cable length away from a plug it should be plugged in, hoovers, power tools*, lawnmowers. Lithium extraction is a nasty, energy intensive toxic processing with loss of finite resource. And they use exactly the same electricity with a loss due to efficiency.
In somethingion. Batteries good or bad depending on alot of things. Ebikes... Depends. In isolation they're terrible and unnecessary for most that can ride a normal bike and that makes them a bad thing.
As for wear on the countryside, bikes are easily already the worst if you discount numbers and heavy things with engines.
Rampant consumerism does accurately sum it up. Simple as that really. Maybe something less irritating will be along soon.
Why do we never talk about the environmental cost of eMTB’s?
Because it is very small, especially compared to many other things pretty much everyone does everyday.
As others have said it is the constant need for people to buy something new that is the issue. How many people on this forum are still riding a bike they bought 10 years ago and the only replacement parts were for when a part was completely worn out? (I won't wait for answers!)
Without ebikes, I would be mostly alone riding.
For me that’s half the point of going riding 🙂
I don't want to imply that TJ is ever wrong about anything, but in this case he's absolutely right.
A car is orders of magnitude worse than a bike. An e-bike is a bike with an electric motor and battery. The extra resources are in the ballpark of buying a couple of battery powered drills, etc. The electricity they use is in the ballpark of recharging a laptop a few times. MTBing is a niche sport. The big impact of e-bikes will be on making it possible for fairly unfit people to commute by bicycle, which is a good thing.
@oceanskipper You’re saying there is no evidence for the environmental cost of battery production or burning fossil fuels to create electricity? And that it’s impossible to get any health benefits from riding a bike unless you have an engine in it?
Wow, I’m glad you’ve settled my conscience. Job done!
No, if you read my posts I did not say there's no evidence and I did not say it's impossible to get any exercise without a motor. I'm not sure what your exact problem is though. Are you suggesting that e-bikes should be banned? You seem to be suggesting at the very least that people who own one should be ashamed. Yet you provide no evidence to back up your claims and why single out ebike owners as a target for environmental damage? I mean, you come onto a biking forum and without any examples or evidence or even a rational argument, proceed to inflame and insult a large percentage of the membership! Do you enjoy antagonising people? Is that how you get your kicks? I think it's called "trolling" actually - are you one of "those"? I wonder if I go onto a forum for people with a debilitating disease I'll see posts from you asking why electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters aren't banned?
Yes, I'm sure any intelligent person can see that there is an impact in the production of the materials used to make an e-bike but without any actual facts none of us is in a position to do anything other than make a sensible judgment over how much more of an impact an ebike has over a normal bike or indeed any one of a million other things that we use in our daily lives.
Do you use any toothpaste with microbeads in? Do you ALWAYS split the rings on the plastic holder that your 4 pack comes in so that it doesn't strangle turtles - the same goes for the elastic that holds your face mask over your ears, do you cut it before disposing of them?
In any case, I'm not sure what gives you the right to come on here and start accusing people of causing an environmental disaster when I'm sure pretty much every bike owner has already had that thought cross their mind and made a rational decision either for or against. There will be some that don't give a toss obviously but they are in the minority. Everyone else does not need your, clearly biased, help. Thanks all the same though. Feel free to point me in the direction of a study that backs up your supposition and I'll happily read it.
I was out riding recently and amongst the explosion in fly-tipping incidents was a huge pile of big plastic kids toys dumped in some woodland pull in.
I thought that it nicely summed up the complete lack of connection that many humans have with thier actions and the legacy they're leaving to their own offspring.
Ebikes are fairly low down on the list of reasons that ultimately we're not going to last as a species. I wouldn't worry too much.
