Forum menu
why would you ride up Jacobs? Its far better to come down it
When you can power up on an ebike you may find more ascents become way more fun than they were. I can see trail centre routes getting far more interesting when they don't feel so compelled to use wide tracks to gain height. Just imagine the whole circuit being as much fun as only the downhill bits were under human power
E bikes just let you reach your destination quicker. If time is that important get up earlier.
E bikes just let you reach your destination quicker. If time is that important get up earlier.
Not sure if serious etc etc
What if you don't have a destination? What if you have x hours to ride? Going faster means you go further/can see more/ride more trails, whatever.
I spoke to a guy from the shop at the Grizedale enduro a few weeks back, he was telling me he's bought a Mondraker e bike for basically firing up the fire road climbs and descending the infinite numbers of cracking descents there, reckons he can easily double his descents in an evening.
Can someone explain why that's not fun?.
[quote=Nobeerinthefridge said]I spoke to a guy from the shop at the Grizedale enduro a few weeks back, he was telling me he's bought a Mondraker e bike for basically firing up the fire road climbs and descending the infinite numbers of cracking descents there, reckons he can easily double his descents in an evening.
Can someone explain why that's not fun?.
It spoils my fun.
I don't know how, since another human being riding a bike somewhere else has no effect on me whatsoever, but it does.
😉
No hate no rant In my opinion its a moped and should have the same restrictions.
zippykona - MemberE bikes just let you reach your destination quicker.
I started in a car park in innerleithen, did 5 runs at the golfy, and ended up back at the car. I could have got to my destination quicker just by never leaving.
In my opinion its a moped
See my "you are entitled to your opinion but you are wrong" post. Fortunately the law doesn't agree with you. You are wrong.
njee20, I thought it was. Still gives you a new target to aim for:)
Yes and fully except that, but wait for the ramblers to get onto it the first rambler with an Ebike ramned up his arss could change all.
Who would ram their ebike into a rambler?
Are lots of people ramming their non-ebikes into ramblers? I've never seen this happen. Are ebikes not blessed with brakes, or riders with eyes or judgement? It can't be their speed that's a problem, since a normal bike will go well above 15.5mph down a hill anyway, and they're not ploughing into ramblers left, right and centre, are they?
Also, you mean accept, not except. And arse. And there's a full stop and capital letter missing.
@ munrobiker - don't you see? e-bikes open up the countryside to those not possessing the physical prowess to ride normal bikes there. As they've not been exposed to countryside before they won't know what to do when they encounter ramblers in the same way that "we" do. Hence the riding into ramblers comment.....
Or, it's a comment that's quite (very) 😕 as per your first suspicion...!
njee20, I thought it was. Still gives you a new target to aim for:)
🙂
As I set my time in the halcyon days of 2010 fitness levels I think it's a fair way off!
Interesting to note that 4th and 5th on that segment (times done yesterday) were both on ebikes according to their rides.
Got no problem with e assist the problem will come when we get lumped in with illegal electric motorbikes and their misuse - you only have to look at the restrictions placed on legal offroading in the past to see what might happen 🙁
I plan to hire an ebike for our Christmas ride, what disability do I need to have to make it socially acceptable to some of you lot?
here's my concern, it's only small, i won't mind if it's ignored.
some of us are involved, to a lesser or greater degree, in working for improved mtb-access, to places like the Peak district. A large and vital part of this involves reassuring land-managers and 'stake-holders' (ramblers representatives) that mtb'ers aren't the army of the apocalypse.
now, it might be more or less self-evident to us as mountainbikers that e-bikes aren't weapons of mass destruction; but i still find myself rehearsing what i'll say at some meeting in my near future:
land-manager: we're keen to open this footpath as a concessionary bridleway, the National Trust tell us good things about their experience with a similar trial, but we're keen to maintain the quiet, peaceful atmosphere of the estate.
Rambler-rep: what about all these new mountain-bikes with motors?
Land-manager: sorry, what!?
me: ...er, well, y'see... (insert rehearsed speach here)
we're going to have to explain these things to people who are already suspicious of, even antagonistic towards, bikes [i]without[/i] motors.
it won't be easy, or maybe it will, i hope so (but it won't hurt for me to have a calm reasoned case, ready to present)
(fwiw, i'm surveying the ground, before opening negotiations for an e-commuter with the long-haired financial director)
Explain to them it's going to happen with or without permission from them and in the grand scheme of things it's pretty self evident no one really cares what land managers think about access
that's probably more of a fall-back argument... in case we can't reassure them with a calm-reassuring 'plan-A'?
It's certainly a funny business. The sooner e-bikers have their own lame magazines full of articles describing the magical sound of the power-assist kicking in on a tough climb, and nerdulent web-forums where they can compare battery life and have incredibly strong opinions on whether the latest Bosch motor is the new Audi Quattro, the happier everyone will be I suspect.
🙂
Perhaps explain that they are like two-wheeled mobility scooters, and mention the capped top speed - which means the main benefit is on climbs?
The ramblers might even end up buying them.
Explain to them that they're limited in power, so can't do much more erosion than a normal bike, that they still require effort to use, so there's not going to be thousands of people on them, that they're limited in speed so they can't go faster than a normal bike downhill and are not going to be going particularly fast uphill. Just use the arguments that are blatantly obvious.
exactly, the case is there, but it will need to be made, and it's not unknown for people to ignore reasonable cases...
Don't forget to mention the naughty chaps who might delimit the power delivery
They'll love that bit and open up all those lovely pieces of singletrack... 🙂
Don't forget to mention the naughty chaps who might delimit the power delivery
Which would be illegal use of any trails that were opened up - so you should also mention that people might use motorbikes, quad bikes and sherman tanks.
Why though? They pose no threat to anyone. I don't know where this idea comes from that they'll all be tearing around at breakneck speeds, roosting around shredding trails to pieces and crashing into ramblers all over the shop. They're just bikes, they'll be ridden like bikes are now, but a bit faster uphill, which isn't a problem.
I used to have a country pub the ramblers would hold meetings lots of ex barrister's school heads, solicitors, councilors,military types very militant about the trails the access and the protection there of.
The ebike haterz are really quite boring. So, to clear it up here's where we stand.If you hate legal ebikes you're wrong. You are allowed an opinion on it, but you're wrong. Like being religious, denying climate change or supporting Brexit (which I suspect you did). Because we live in a civilised society you are allowed your wrong opinion.
Fortunately, also because we live in a civilised society, people who have an ebike that fits the law can carry on using them, which makes no difference to anyone else whatsoever.
So you've decided we're wrong, but you'll let us have our little ol' opinions. Why thank you.
Well, I think you're wrong, but in the same magnanimous spirit I'll let let you hold on to your misguided views.
Can we not have two forums? One for the luddites amongst us who prefer bikes to be human powered, and one for the moped supporters.
[i]One for the luddites amongst us who prefer bikes to be human powered, and one for the moped supporters.[/i]
or maybe a middle ground where some people have bikes that assist their human power and some that don't but all they accept that every one rides for a different reason and it's all bikes so fill your boots?
Ok 3 forums then 😉
Why though? They pose no threat to anyone. I don't know where this idea comes from that they'll all be tearing around at breakneck speeds, roosting around shredding trails to pieces and crashing into ramblers all over the shop. They're just bikes, they'll be ridden like bikes are now, but a bit faster uphill, which isn't a problem.
That's a rather over-simplified take on things....or perhaps it's just convenient for you?
Simple truth is the more power you stick through the rear wheel the more potential you have to create damage. If you doubt that have a look at the roost a dirt bike can throw out......& there are without doubt some pretty meaty e-bikes around..
Personally, I've nothing against an e-bike as long as the rider isn't being a d1ck, but if you're trashing a fragile trail by giving it the beans on your e-bike & leaving it in a worse state for others that follow, you may find yourself qualifying for said d1ck status (IMHO)..
Personally, I've nothing against an e-bike as long as the rider isn't being a d1ck, but if you're trashing a fragile trail by giving it the beans on your e-bike & leaving it in a worse state for others that follow, you may find yourself qualifying for said d1ck status (IMHO)..
Should super fast pinners who slash corners & roost berms not be allowed to ride too fast for fear of leaving a trail in a worse state than before too?
What about the squiddies who brake hard in stupid places & cause braking bumps everywhere? I propose they be banned as well.
he didn't say anything about 'banning' that was you.
so if you'll allow me to rephrase your post:
Should super fast pinners who slash corners & roost berms... think about slowing down a bit and taking a bit more care on/of a shared trail?
yeah, maybe they should, it wouldn't hurt.
Should super fast pinners who slash corners & roost berms not be allowed to ride too fast for fear of leaving a trail in a worse state than before too?What about the squiddies who brake hard in stupid places & cause braking bumps everywhere? I propose they be banned as well.
Wow.
Talk about missing the point.
Which was this: "Simple truth is the more power you stick through the rear wheel the more potential you have to create damage. If you doubt that have a look at the roost a dirt bike can throw out......& there are without doubt some pretty meaty e-bikes around.."
Our trails are mostly pretty fragile things, except trail centres, you take something out with more power than a bog standard bike you have the potential to cause more damage. What you have highlighted is the fact that folks:
A. Can't see that.
B. Don't care.
C. Haven't realised.
It's about responsible trail use & we all have a collective responsibility to ensure we don't screw the pooch & F up access. Advocacy isn't an easy game to play as the other side mostly don't want us around in the first place - so lets be grown up & try to remember that.
By all means ride whatever kind of MTB you like but do please try to do it in a way that isn't going to mess up things up for whoever comes along next..
Is that really too much to ask?
Simple truth is the more power you stick through the rear wheel the more potential you have to create damage. If you doubt that have a look at the roost a dirt bike can throw out......& there are without doubt some pretty meaty e-bikes around..
A KTM electric dirt bike has 11,000 watts. An e-bike has 250, plus whatever the rider can do. That's not even vaguely comparable in terms of damage.
Edit- just seen that the KTM electric bikes are now up to 16,000 watts.
A KTM electric dirt bike has 11,000 watts. An e-bike has 250, plus whatever the rider can do. That's not even vaguely comparable in terms of damage.
But we both know there are more powerful e-bikes around that have more than 250w available..
Which was this: "Simple truth is the more power you stick through the rear wheel the more potential you have to create damage.
I think you're taking it all a bit Daily Mail to be honest.
I was being facetious with my comments, but there are plenty of XC racers & other riders who can comfortably put out more watts than Mr Average on their e-bike, even in full beans mode.
Same sort of vein as the quicker rider carving a turn.
[i]there are more powerful e-bikes around that have more than 250w available..[/i]
yes, but they would be illegal to ride on bridleways etc as they aren't legally bicycles - same as the KTM.
clearly enforcement of the > 250w thing is trickier than 'no internal combustion' engines but arguing that an illegal vehicle damaging trails is a reason to ban legal ones is a potentially dangerous move for all wheeled traffic...
I think you're taking it all a bit Daily Mail to be honest.
How?
By caring about the trails I ride, how I leave them & not wanting to mess it up for others?
I call it being considerate.
But we both know there are more powerful e-bikes around that have more than 250w available.
As cha****ng said on the last page, they're illegal to ride on bridleways. Same as a dirt bike. Or a tank. There is already a law in place to prevent people using them. And even so 1,000w ? 16,000w (about 15 horsepower apparently). In fact, it doesn't even equal 1 horsepower. And horses are allowed on bridleways. So, no, they aren't going to trash the trails, even if they were allowed on there. Which they're not.
yes, but they would be illegal to ride on bridleways etc as they aren't legally bicycles - same as the KTM.clearly enforcement of the > 250w thing is trickier than 'no internal combustion' engines but arguing that an illegal vehicle damaging trails is a reason to ban legal ones is a potentially dangerous move for all wheeled traffic...
Where did I say ban??
All I've said is be considerate!
In case you missed it this is what I said:
By all means ride whatever kind of MTB you like but do please try to do it in a way that isn't going to mess up things up for whoever comes along next..
So, no, they aren't going to trash the trails, even if they were allowed on there. Which they're not.
Things being illegal don't seem to stop some folks..
Where did I say ban??All I've said is be considerate!
Things being illegal don't seem to stop some folks..
And I don't think anyone is suggesting that riding considerately is a bad idea.
But since it's just as easy to be inconsiderate and damaging to an equal measure on a non-e-bike then it means your issue is with inconsiderate riders, not the type of bike they are riding.
You're (intentionally or otherwise) equating 'ebike' with 'inconsiderate' and that's what is getting people's back up.
There is no evidence to suggest that using an ebike makes considerate people ride inconsiderately. And there's probably none suggesting that inconsiderate people likely to suddenly start to use them, which kind makes the whole argument a bit theoretical and lacking in merit.
Your core point of 'people should ride considerately' is a good one, it's just that that is more a point about people, not ebikes.
mrlebowski - MemberWhat you have highlighted is the fact that folks:
A. Can't see that.
B. Don't care.
C. Haven't realised.
D- know that wear is part of what we do regardless of what we ride, and think that this isn't so different. And probably others. It's not such a good idea, trying to tell other people what they think.
Northwind - D- know that wear is part of what we do regardless of what we ride, and think that this isn't so different. And probably others. It's not such a good idea, trying to tell other people what they think.
Add to that, they dont understand about how power deilivery works and how its going to be very hard to roost something on an ebike anything like how you roost on a motorbike.
And how a smooth e-assist bike will help stop people losing traction as they have a more constant momentum and reduce spinning their pure pedal powered wheel.
reading the e-bike article in this months mag the e-bike was the only one that delivered the power in a way that didn't cause the back wheel to spin.