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Who exactly are we cheating?
The hill I would assume. I'd assume that was just light hearted banter. I've had walkers and runners say the same to me when riding past them on a normal bike. It's what makes the world go around.
@Stu I'm close myself
As Dom says. Shimano does de-couple but there's still some drag to overcome
As for being heckled at Malverns I'd be heckling you for calling my bike "analogue" or "clockwork". They're just bikes Dom 😉
This is quite handy in understanding the differences between a few of the more popular motors.
https://ebike-mtb.com/en/best-emtb-motor-2018-review/5/
It's just a lighthearted way of differentiating between assisted and non-assisted bikes when referring to both in a post.
EDIT: I don't want to refer to non-assisted bikes as "normal" bikes in case it reinforces the misnomer that eBikes are not bicycles.
Some of the cheat comments are lighthearted too, but not all of them. Engage with them and it's easy to tell which they are.
From what I see around my bit of the Peak, I think e-bikes are taking off across many different genre's of cyclist's. I'm seeing more pricey full sus affairs and equally more recreational rider's on them, and there is a lad on some giant e-road bike I see when our shifts correspond on the ride to work. Seems all good to me, I never noticed the same speed of uptake with different wheel sizes. They certainly look happier than the folk I see strapping loads of luggage to road bikes and taking them off road.
im sceptical of the claim that they were reasonable tbh, i used to be reasonably fit, and i now ride an ebike, i doubt an ebike would keep up with someone who is reasonably fit.
The one I followed would. I have only had one encounter with a person on an eMTB and they helped me get a PB on a few hill sections of a 3 mile mostly uphill fire road. I averaged 15mph over the 3 miles (and I know I am not slow as I am in the top 10 out of a 1000+ people on that 3 miles segment)
I was putting in as much effort as I could for the 3 miles and I could see he was taking it very easy and just gently turning around the pedals for the whole distance. Not sure what mode he was in or what type of ebike as I never managed to actually catch him as was always 10-20 metres behind.
If you watched the series with that old fella who was riding around the Lake District with his son. TV fella who used to be in Eastenders and other stuff. His lad wasn't an amazing cycling but was decent and pretty fit it seemed. Well the old fella was cruising away from him on the road on an E-hybrid. I assume because of the nature of the Prog it was a hire bike and therefore completely legal and unchipped. But on the hills, it was seemingly fairly effortless for him.
Give me an Avionics V1 or an Italjet Mantra/Bulldozer ebike and I will be happy. I would post photos if I could work out how on my iPad. Who cares whether they make you sweat.....they are the future and Uber cool.
Weeksy, larry and george lamb I believe.
was quite a good programme actually.
I don't have one, but I do think they are bloody brilliant, the newer bikes are great.
I rode the frighteningly expensive Focus (150/160? travel thing?), carbon frame etc, good geo & light, for an e-bike around the Forest of Dean. I managed 30odd KM in an hour and a half, riding pretty much every single off piste, and official trail I could find (stuff I've raced on in the past).
I rode up the unofficial push up, which is bloody hard work even walking up, and impossible to ride unassisted as it's so steep, 6 times, which was brutal.
I was absolutely hanging at the end, and i'm what I would consider pretty fit. Most importantly, I had a massive grin on my face.
If I lived out that way, i'd be all over one. They would be brilliant and BPW. I can pedal up in the same turnaround as an uplift there, on an e-bike, i'd get another 5-6 runs in, in the same amount of time.
Sounds great.
You have a DJ bike that weighs the same as your Ebike? WTF? My DJ bike is exactly 20lb lighter than my 46lb Emtb. (lighter than most 170mm travel emtbs)
My "DJ bike" is a fun bike... steel frame and heavy spring forks ... its got a 11-28 on the back as well and 2 brakes.
Don't have en e-bike... though my brother does.
The main characteristic of the bike was cost 😀 (and weight) It was meant to be under £200 but the Halo SAS rear at £50 pushed it over. I don't actually know what it weighs ... it would probably bend the cheap luggage scales but sticking it on the car its more than my trail and XC bikes combined.
It's just a fun bike I got to improve my jumping, not worry about breaking and have fun and pedalling it 20 miles on the relative flat (e.g. round Swinley) means I get more exercise. The 170mm old Maz bomber springs aren't ideal for DJ but its good enough to have fun
Anyway, surely the point is that everyone should be forced to cycle a 40lb bike at all times or they are somehow cheating.. 😉 ??
From my perspective (perceived effort and perceived knackeredness) riding the heavy, slack bike up a long and damned steep hill has almost nothing in common with a light road or CX bike or even a carbon HT XC bike.. same with maintaining an average speed...
Weeksy, larry and george lamb I believe.
was quite a good programme actually.
yes and yes it was
When I picked up my new Trek Fuel I went out on the Superfly whilst they set it all up etc.
Was actually better than I imagined and if I could afford a decent one I would have one. For the types of riding I do it would be perfect and can only see them getting better and better.
I think it is all about choice and circumstance. I am time poor and tend not to cycle in the winter. Every spring it is harder and less enjoyable to get my fitness back. Also at my age (53) the steeper hills hurt and really take it out of me. So I tend to find an e-bike more fun early season and for the bigger hillier rides. Locally I will look to take my analog bike, but again sometimes in the past I would not go out if it was too windy or I felt a bit tired etc. Now I just take the ebike instead and enjoy the ride. I am also doing more tech and downhill as I can get more uphills in before my fitness limits the ride.
What I really cannot understand is people who think they should be banned etc. They do absolutely no harm to anyone else…who cares if someone else is not geting the workout/suffering to the same extent as you? As for the erosion argument…just clutching at straws to justify a prejudice.
Live and let live I say.
I'm not easily able to differentiate between my medical issues and just getting older and lifestyle.
One thing i have noticed though is it takes very little time to go from being fit enough to enjoy myself to not.
A few months ago I was happy and having fun cycling some longish climbs like the wall... a bit of 20 hour work days, a bit of not exercising at all (hardly) etc. and I lose the fitness to go out and have fun very quickly...
Jnr has had a few races at the weekends I've got and we rode uplift in-between.... and in just a few short weeks on top of this my fitness dived. Last week Jnr has some skipping workshop and I go to show him how to skip.. (I used to skip 1-2 hours almost EVERY day decades ago) and about 2 mins and I felt like crap..(spent 1/2 hour with tachycardia that I haven't had for years). Got a casual ride in yesterday and decided I would take the trail bid round Swinley which isn't cheating as much as the XC bike but I didn't feel up to a lap on the heavy bike. I even swapped wheels with the XC and stuck on some fast rolling tyres I was feeling that crap.
Next 3 weekends I'll get almost no exercise... as I'm away with work in the middle of nowhere... and will probably have to work weekends anyway... so I'll be even less fit when I get back 🙁
brake pad wear and tyre wear are exactly on a par with my other bikes so that kinda blows this increased trail erosion scaremongering out the window too.
kinda, but not really. You can still ride them like a dick and repeatedly roost up and cut in berms on flat sections of footpath in AsONB. For example.
Yes, it's possible to put braking skids in with a normal bike, but you wouldn't (and they didn't) because you'd have to pedal your way up to speed again.
Not helping matters in an area with some great off piste and a delicate balance with walkers and landowners.
for balance, some of the guys with e bikes are keen locals who put a fair bit of effort into trail building. If e-bikes give them more scope for ferrying tools and more energy for digging, I'm behind them all the way (literally, probably).
It'd be a shame if some of the activity on walkers' paths led to the same trails been torn up, though.
I'm waiting for the price to drop as they become more popular, then I'll have one, it'll be chipped / modded for as much power as possible and I'll ride with impunity. Wait til Go Outdoors offer an eBossnut or similar and mod it to offer 4KW like a 50cc motorbike. That's the future...
impunity: exemption from punishment or freedom from the injurious consequences of an action.
You won't! Eff it up and hurt someone and you'll be in deeper shit than you'd have been on a legal bike.
Oh sorry, I meant gay abandon, not impunity. I always mix them two up.
kinda, but not really. You can still ride them like a dick and repeatedly roost up and cut in berms on flat sections of footpath in AsONB. For example.
Yes, it’s possible to put braking skids in with a normal bike, but you wouldn’t (and they didn’t) because you’d have to pedal your way up to speed again.
What I said several pages ago about the haterz being imaginary - I guess not all of them are.
A very specific comment about a very specific path where bikes aren't allowed anyway, and that makes the eMTBs not the riders the bad thing here?
Rode at Cannock for first time on Saturday maybe 50/50 ebike , pedal bike mix which did surprise me. I will have one at some point in the future but for now I enjoy the pedalling and physical challenge. Don’t really care what other people are doing. There was a definite vibe for some pro and anti on the trails but hey who cares. Had to take up roadying to keep my fitness up as age creeps in but surprisingly quite enjoy that as well.
Will the price come down.? Not sure about that really have you checked out top end bike prices.
kinda, but not really.
No. Not kinda or not really. But factual information.
Don't try to put some bizarre fictitious spin on it. it is what it is.
Same rider, same riding style. same trails, 2 very similar bikes except for the motor/battery/assistance. same distances ridden. same wear rates.
Blimey, some comprehension failure here. geex said his pads and tyres don't get worn any more than when he's on his non-ebike, and said "that kinda blows this increased trail erosion scaremongering out the window too."
I responded by saying that it doesn't really blow it out of the window, because there are other circumstances where it's possible to ride them in a way that creates erosion in places that wouldn't really attract it on normal bikes.
All about the way they can be ridden, not about the bikes themselves. and another post straight after that for context and balance. philjunior, you really ignored and misread quite a lot to decide that I'm an ebike hater. or even an ebike rider hater.
And geex, I've got no idea why you thought my information was fictitious, or spin, or about you. I thought it was pretty obvious I was talking about a specific example. Quite happy to take your info about pad/tyre wear as useful info, just wanted to counter that it's not the whole picture, there's other riders than you, so it's not really the final word in the discussion.
pointless point is pointless.
indeed.
Not engine braking as such ,I'm not entirely stupid, I know theres a freehub, it's just the only way I could describe the feeling that it gives when you get off the gas and it slows down. Just didn't like it myself, not trying to knock em without giving em a try.
Yeah engine braking was probably a poor choice of words.
but i know what you mean, you can definitely feel the engine stop pulling when you hit the speed limiter eh.
I see all the self righteous haters haven’t got any new material, and there are fewer people who haven’t ridden them for them to shout their bullshit at now.
This is a good thing
Well, I've just taken the plunge and bought one, so we'll see
New Bike day Wednesday- wow - I haven't bought a complete bike since 1998
I took a Pinnacle Lithium Ion for a test ride today (sort of Chunky hybrid rigid tourer)
Loved it for general transport use. Not really enough scope for carrying things for my needs sadly, but the Shimano Steps was great. Spent most of the time on the flat at about 28-30kmh so not any assist, but the difference is, when you need to slow down, getting back up to speed is far easier.
Hills felt pretty much like riding on the flat on an “analog” bike, but maybe into a headwind. But there aren’t any proper hills round where I was riding so not really easy to judge. A proper full weekend test will be done soon from Evans Manchester store.
Did a non sweaty 10K at lunchtime round Leeds and then Back to the office
Testing the Trek Supercommuter 8 tomorrow lunchtime to see what double the money gets you (But mainly to see what the Bosch CX is like compared to the Shimano Steps)
Looking like the Yuba Spicy Curry Bosch will be getting ordered some time soon though 👍
What did you buy ninfan?
I'm in the "not for me at the moment" camp. If I need one when/if my boys start riding to keep up then I will but half of the draw to riding for me is the honest graft. I wouldn't and don't fault others for riding one for all of the reasons given by geex and others in this thread.
Today’s test ride was on the Trek Supercommuter 8 with Bosch CX.
Different league to the Pinnacle from yesterday, before I rode it I couldn’t really see how it could be worth twice the price and presumed it was just the name and style that was costing. But it really isn’t.
I really liked the Pinnacle but the Trek was fantastic by comparison. Mainly because of the Bosch CX being soooooo much better than the Shimano Steps, but the whole bike felt better, really stable and comfortable, but still nippy round tight back streets. And the power delivery is also way smoother.
Mans I did 17km at lunchtime, with a fair few hills, and went straight back to my desk without a hint of a sweat on.
Convinced me that the Yuba with the same CX drive is the right bike 👍
It almost seems like the industry ignores working on all of the things that could make a great commuter e-bike (light, fast, portable) and is pushing development in the offroad sector simply because we spend more on toys.
Can’t really make em much lighter*, the heavy bits are the motor and battery.
can’t make em any faster, there’s a speed limiter fitted by law.
re portable, see point one above.
industry makes what their market research tells them we are gonna buy.
*yeah you could drop a couple of kgs off most standard bikes, but they still aren’t actually light.
It almost seems like the industry ignores working on all of the things that could make a great commuter e-bike
To be fair, the bike I rode today is a perfect commuter bike (they have actually made it even better with NuVinci hub on the newer 9 version) don’t really see how they could make it all that much better without using, as yet uninvented technology.
(light, fast, portable)
The supercommuter 8 I rode today isn’t light (on the scales) but it certainly feels light when it’s actually being ridden. And surely that’s the important part. It’s fast accelerating, way faster than the Steps system (and everything is capped at 25km/h anyway) but it’s easy to cruise on the flat at 30km/h without much hardship anyway. So it’s hardly slow.
Not sure about portable, unless you mean folding? There are plenty of folding ebikes around if that’s what you mean. Brompton soon.
and is pushing development in the offroad sector simply because we spend more on toys.
The CX Bosch Motor from the Trek superCommuter is the standard motor in pretty much every Bosch powered mountain bike. I would say they are developing for both sectors at the same time, and it works perfectly well for both too.
Convinced me that the Yuba with the same CX drive is the right bike 👍
Any idea what the average ballpark assisted range is on the Spicy Curry? I know it's somewhat of a 'how long is string' Q!
Reminds me of the time I drove up the Col du Izoard: On the pass summit I got lip from a roadie who'd just cycled up. He seemed unwilling to accept that we'd both been doing the same thing, going uphill, enjoying the view. I ask you: he'd just started at the bottom of the hill whereas I'd driven all the way from Dijon...what a dick!
Well I've moved a step closer to joining the cheating bastards camp.😄
I'm taking a Kenevo out on test in a couple of days time.
lightness doesn't really matter on an ebike tbh.
technically you can ride the speed pedalecs (ones that go up to 45kph/30/mph) in the uk, but you basically need to get it type approved as a moped, tax, insured, have brake acivated likes, mirror, motorbike license plate have a moped license and you need to wear a motorcycle helmet.
So the law as it currently stands isn't particularly speed pedelec friendly at the moment. I think it'll probably develop over time tbh. but it'll be a slow process.
should also mention that when the speed goes up, battery consumption goes up also, it's an exponential curve, so speed wise they'll always be limited, unless you put a silly about of batteries in there, which is were most of the weight is.
@chickenman I once got a shuttle in a van to the top of the Col Du Tourmalet to ride the descent. It was ace all 11 miles of it!
@seosamh77 Weight actually makes a massive differenct to the handling of an Emtb. not if you ride it seated, rely too much on the power or just plow into and over things granted. I'm talking about riding them properly.
If I understand you correctly I don't really agree with what you're saying about the speed using the battery exponentially either. it's more about what level of assistance you use, your weight and gradient IMO.
Considering it's not all that difficult for a reasonably strong rider to pedal them above the 15mph assistance limit on the flat a de-restricted emtb wouldn't need to give you a whole lot of assistance even in eco to allow that riderto comfortably pedal along the flat at normal quick roadbike speeds, Try continueing to do that up any sort of gradient and that's where you'll see the battery depleted quickest.
*wind resistance obviously comes into it but I'm assuming anyone doing this woyldn't just sit bolt upright like a sail into the wind
technically you can ride the speed pedalecs (ones that go up to 45kph/30/mph) in the uk, but you basically need to get it type approved as a moped, tax, insured, have brake acivated likes, mirror, motorbike license plate have a moped license and you need to wear a motorcycle helmet
They really don't need all of this heavy shite.
Don't really see why they have to have a drivetrain either.
Geex your comments make sense to me re: hills.
on the flat riding along at the speed limiter is pretty economical, i can go 15 miles on the limiter, and only use 1 bar.
the same distance off road, or on hilly terrain will empty the battery.
I am a fat knacker though.