[Closed] “E-Bikes are ok if you are too old or ill to ride a normal bike”

That data ( or similar ) has been available for well over a year now ..

I'm a fan even though I don't own one yet ..but I've had more fun on one than any other bike I have ridden ..

La Salle recognizes that having the volunteers riding the same admittedly heavy bicycle (the test bikes both weigh over 50 lbs.) for both runs, rather than allowing them to use a lighter road bike, might have some affect the results of the study.

so that result is meaningless then...

Possibly. The first one wasn’t compromised in the same way though was it.

i like the proof where 176.6 watts for 1.8 hrs is the same as 177.7 for 2.61 hrs cos like the hr and watts are the same

Maybe I'm being dim but if your heart rate is the same on both bikes but the journey takes less time on the ebike then it's not "the same great workout"? Yes it's still a workout but it's a shorter one.

Maybe I’m being dim but if your heart rate is the same on both bikes but the journey takes less time on the ebike then it’s not “the same great workout”? Yes it’s still a workout but it’s a shorter one.

Presumably, if you wanted a longer one you'd ride further ... one the first study the person is happy to cut their commute time and training time or even to use max assist if they had a hard day....

Even the max assist is a better workout than driving. He could use max on 9/10 weekly journeys and still be doing 1/10 and it would be way better than driving.... or on the way home etc.

I used to do a 40 mile commute on a bike years (decades) ago.... and quite often the ride home would turn into something I'd wish I took the train instead.  Usually after working late etc.  I'd say that was one of the major reasons I stopped doing it.  It's one thing sat working late .. it's another thinking you have a 20 mile ride home before you eat.

I just started taking the train when I expected I'd be working late... (from memory) and at some point it became a weekly pass.

Who could be bothered to read all that! It's not going to alter the views of an eBike hater (whatever that is). And, well, it's just a long, boring article.

Everyone knows what they are by now, don't they?

The best bit (I scrolled) is this bloke's riding gear! Yes, there is a bloke in the picture if you look [i]really[/i] closely!

Nope, still can't see him, all I am seeing is a bike.  Can you put a circle around where he is to help me see him

I like e bikes.  I got a PB on a 2 mile mostly uphill fire road the other week as I had someone on an bike in front of me.  Useful to get someone to pace for you at 15mph up a hill.

Are all e-bikes now pedelecs?

Or are all pedelecs now called e-bikes?

i use strava when I'm on my ebike.

i have to say, i haven't troubled any leaderboards, not even close in fact.

i can get about halfway up the leaderboards (like 100th out of 200 in total) in my age category, (I'm 50)

Even the max assist is a better workout than driving

I fully agree with that.  I just think the way it's presented is misleading.

The best bit (I scrolled) is this bloke’s riding gear! Yes, there is a bloke in the picture if you look <em class="bbcode-em">really closely!

What tyres for shooting wildlife with a crossbow?

Big 'ol fat ones.

Obviously an ebike over the same distance is less of a work out, come on, it's not rocket science! 😆 In fairness the article was piss poorly conceived!

tbh I think the best analogy I can't think about ebikes is like they are just the same as exercise bike in that you can make the resistance as easy or as hard as you like. Like going to the gym and tailoring your effort.

That looks more like a hillbill E bike to me

I recall a time not so long ago. We had just stopped at the top of a steep climb, hanging over the bars trying to gather some oxygen ready for an amazing descent when a bunch of e-bikers came whirring up the same climb behind, "go through" we say between rushed breaths, "it's not like you need a rest" with a slight smirk. "Oh, but you are wrong." came the reply, along with the pre-written speech that is engraved on every e-bike's top tube "We work just as hard, but we go further and faster!" he exclaimed, smoothly, calmly and not at all out of breath...

I think the constant banging on about how it really is exercise and all these imaginary "ebike haters" tell you all you need to know.

They're part of the future of cycling in general and MTB in particular, but it's just not the same as riding a bike, so they're certainly not "the" future.

I think the constant banging on about how it really is exercise and all these imaginary “ebike haters” tell you all you need to know.

Spot on.

Surely the e-assist 'question' is not a binary question.

Everyone (ideally) assesses it from a differing perspective and requirement?

ie when I lived on the West coast I wanted one as a car-replacement to allow me to cycle 10 steep river valleys and so meet commuting/visiting requirments without reaching for the car keys.  Pretty much guarantee no-one here no matter how fit would do that journey 4-5 times weekly (if at all) by conventional bicycle.  So choosing an e-bike in such a situation would be the polar opposite of 'infirm/elderly/lazy' etc given that the only other available choices (car, motorbike, bus) would actually be the entirely lazy/boring options.

On the flipside I can see why an MTBer or roadie (riding mostly for leisure and fitness, competitively or otherwise)  might sniff at e-bikes from the perspective of such machines being essentially 'uplifts' or 'cheating'.

I do incidentally have injuries and ailments that now effectively limit the amount of power/torque I can push compared to what I could manage pre-injury, but I struggle along slowly uphill with a regular utility bike until the day I can afford an electric cargo bike.  That too won't stop my regular cycling, and will keep the car off the road for heavy grocery/cargo trips/visits in a 20 mile radius or more (ie most journeys).  But 'cheating'?  Away with ye daftness and bike carriers 😉

From my perspective, more bikes on the road are a better outcome all-round than more cars.  Open to having my mind changed but I always smile to see people shopping/commuting etc on either e-assist bikes or regular bike, and are both healthier options than car or bus.  More e-bikes off-road are debatable. ymmv

I do have to say, anyone that says it's the same as riding a bike, is talking out their hole, it is much easier. You'd need to up the distance considerably to get the same work out. And range on ebikes is limited.

Downhills, no difference.

Flats, it's piss easy even at the lower levels, but still some sort of exercise going on, nothing like, a real bike mind.

Shallow hills, you are starting to put some effort in.

Steep hills, low assistance levels can have you can blowing out your arse, on hi assist it can be easy.

Basically if you want a work out, attack some hills on the lowest assist you can manage! Which is where they really come into their own, you'll go up hills, you've no right to be!

Fun factor is much higher on ebikes, which for me, is what it's all about!

They are fundamentally different tbh, there's limited value in comparing it to normal cycling I think, they are very much their own niche.

That article is nonsense.

This year I've gone from my usual 10hrs ish a week riding. a mix of mtb/road. to around 6hrs a week on an Emtb and the occasional ride on a normal bike.
I'm riding the same distances but covering a lot more elevation.
I'm way less fit/lean than last summer. but having much more fun riding.

I commuted on my Emtb once just to see what it was like. It's a 10mile commute each way with one sharp steep climb either way and generally a headwind in the morning, tailwind return.
What I found.
The Emtb stops assisting at 15mph so on the flat I had the choice to either sit up and rest pedalling at 14.5mph assisted letting the motor do the work or actually put some effort in and pedal the bike unassisted. As the bike was new I did a bit of both (playing with the new toy) but didn't really put all that much effort in overall. The Emtb took 34mins in and about the same time back. but I arrived each way fresh and not sweaty.
On my my roadbike I ride the flat sections faster and have to put serious effort into the first climb (each way) and am nowhere near 15mph up them. which then leaves me sweaty and needing to recover over the brows. The road bike generally takes around 35 mins in but generally less home (tailwind) Not caining it by any means but putting some effort into the climbs.. The fact that whenever I've ridden the roadbike I'm in lycra and arrive sweaty and out of breath and had chosen to ride the Emtb in combats, a T shirt and hoody and was neither sweaty or out of breath tells me way more than that article does about which is giving me the better work out.

There's such a lot of absolute bobbins information about Ebikes around. Scarily a lot of this actually comes from deluded owners of them.

Al probably very true, I found the article accidentally really as I’m looking at buying an Electric assist Cargo bike (possibly Yuba Spicy Curry Bosch) as a car (and train) replacement, and was interested how much of a fitness benefit there would actually be.

Looking at roughly 100 commuting miles per week, plus maybe 20/30 more depending on the week.

I currently drive-train-walk the last km. and then reverse in the evening. So obviously there will be some fitness advantage, but I was just wondering how much.

Exercise or workout? Who gives a F.

Its about getting where you want to go less sweaty & tired & getting up the hill quicker to do more descents.

Its about getting where you want to go less sweaty & tired & getting up the hill quicker to do more descents.

Which I guess is why I will never have one.  When I cycle I specifically go out to cycle - I wear lycra and I have a shower awaiting when I get home.  I find going up hill the best part of riding and enjoy the workout.

That article is bollocks and has graphs with scales that would shame a political pamphlet.

I used to buy the "we just go further and faster" mantra, however, now i've ridden an ebike a bit (hired one on holiday) it's complete bollocks. Even on 'eco' it makes it a lot easier up hills, and i'm guessing most people aren't riding on eco. In theory I guess it could give you the same calories burnt if you kept riding for hours and hours (which people don't), but it's no way as intense - up a fairly steep hill I could easily reach the 15mph limit when I tried to a moderate degree on eco (so maybe me putting out 250w). Even when I tried the same hill on a normal bike at a hard effort (so probably nearer 375-400w for a couple of minutes) I couldn't get anywhere near 15mph.

Thing I noticed is that both the e-bike runs were at  20mph plus average. So certainly not UK legal bikes. I'm pretty sure not many UK e-bikers ride over 15mph on the flat. E-bikes arrall about making a ride easier, wether climbing of road or making a journey without getting tired and sweaty.

TBF a lot of Emtb owners probably do go further and ride more than they did before. But bearing in mind on hilly rides you can only get somewhere around 4500-5000ft of climbing out of a fully charged Emtb battery they probably didn't go very far or ride very often before buying one.

I think the constant banging on about how it really is exercise and all these imaginary “ebike haters” tell you all you need to know.

Spot on.

Yep tbh article looked more like an infomercial.

Only issue I have with ebikes is when people with no bike skills unlock them and go steaming everywhere flat out at 20 mph, cos that always ends well, in the old days you’d get fitter and faster and a little more skilled at handling the bike.

But ebike hater nope it’s just another niche bike.

it’s just not the same as riding a bike

What is a "normal bike" ... I no longer have a proper road bike but the same hill on my commuter vs my HT XC with 2.1 fast rolling vs my FS trail with 2.6 Mary and Hans... vs my 26" DJ bike...are completely different effort levels?

Is it cheating riding a road bike up a tarmaced hill?

Obviously an ebike over the same distance is less of a work out, come on, it’s not rocket science!

Isn't that up to you?  If you really want a workout turn off the assist,  to use the point above... Do you think a 160mm travel enduro with the lowest power that can be customised is going to be easier to go up a hill than a UCI legal 6.8kg road bike?  (or that getting a sub 6.8kg for not racing on is cheating )

I currently drive-train-walk the last km. and then reverse in the evening. So obviously there will be some fitness advantage, but I was just wondering how much.

Surely that's up to you.... 20 miles 'just lifting your legs' on max is a minimum but non trivial amount of exercise but you can also decide to turn the assist off completely in places (or not).

Some days you can do hills the hard way... other days you might assist on hills and do flats the hard way or 10 miles on assist and last 10 without.  (Any and all combinations)

Even when I tried the same hill on a normal bike at a hard effort (so probably nearer 375-400w for a couple of minutes) I couldn’t get anywhere near 15mph.

Yep a friend of my mine has mentioned this fact that they seem to be pushing out way more watts on a climb assisted than they should taking into account the input of the user.

Quiet motorbikes. I expect it's fun though, just not for me.

I can't wait until they're lighter, I'll definitely have one, will be able to get that bit further, higher, longer, awesome!

I can’t wait until they’re lighter, I’ll definitely have one, will be able to get that bit further, higher, longer, awesome!

Batteries an range innit.... the old leccy conundrum.

Was unimpressed that m8s Bosch drive didn’t have user servicable BB and he fubard his right up.It was replaced under warrenty though but for something I’d class as a consumable it seemed like a fail.

I suppose if you have one of these new fangled (heavy) bouncy bikes with lots of travel its your own personal uplift 😉

Stevextc, I'd doubt anyone rides an ebike turned off expect maybe downhill. Even the there's little point in turning it off. Turn it off and you are just riding a more difficult to ride bike. Defo no fun cycling and ebike turned off.

I rode my Emtb turned off on the climbs the other night. I was riding with an unfit friend on his Fatbike so it just seemed silly to ride an assisted bike while he puffed and panted behind and his face got redder and redder.
It wasn't all that bad TBH.
I ride it switched off on the flat quite a bit too. Infact I often do rides starting with the motor off and move up an assist mode as I tire eventually spinning up the hills in boost.

It really is strange the preconceptions others have about how you choose to ride a bike or what you percieve to be fun. We're probably all guilty of it from time to time though.

I suppose if you have one of these new fangled (heavy) bouncy bikes with lots of travel its your own personal uplift

Exactly, and how many would happily load up their bikes onto the uplift trailers at bike park wales but consider  e-bikes are cheating..I

Of the ones I've sold the buyers seem to be split into three groups.

1)bought to take to the second home in a mountainous area.

2)bought to continue riding after long term injury/health issues

3)bought even though my answer to "Will I still have to pedal" is "yes"

Not one person has asked how long they will have to ride to equal a ride on a normally powered bicycle.

Everyone who rides them has a big grin on their face after about 10ft of riding the test bike. And that enjoyment is what it is all about for me.

Have you sold 3? or was that all the same wealthy idiot?

Not one person has asked how long they will have to ride to equal a ride on a normally powered bicycle.

Thats not a big shock though is it?  The whole point is that it’s easier than riding a non assisted bike.

My own musing were simply that I’m not going to ride the Hilly 20 mike commute on anything other than an ebike, but as I’m doing it for utility/cost/enjoyment reasons anyway, I wonder what the “bonus” fitness benefits might be.

Met a charming lady today, nearer to retirement age, who e-biked 5 miles to work and back, I said I thought that was great - she says, every day she rides to work, a MAMIL charges past and shouts "cheat!" at her, I thought that was sad. 🙁