[Closed] Drilling frame for a stealth reverb Orange Alpine 160

Not really sure how the failure of a designed in feature has any relevance against the modification of a different frame.

This has descended into a rather predictable STW engineeringy-types argument.

Good luck guys! 🙂

Whyte have been drilling their frames and running all cables internally for a few years now and they are doing it for 2016 too.. If frames where folding and failing i'm pretty sure they wouldn't do it.
There's a disproportionately high number of Whytes in my riding club and none have failed or had any issues despite plenty of abuse and neglect.
There's plenty of other manufacturers doing the same and shifting large units without issues.. 🙄

Hey I don't want to overstate my tech-skills, but I'm certain that every 3rd yr FractureMechanics paper option on a mech eng undergrad basic course would learn about the de Haviland Comet dramas - it's a different situation with cutting square holes in a fat plane sized aluminium tube but also was a massively bigger budget project than bike frame design.

I'd be willing to bet a car that the general decision to route cables internally came from a graphic designer, rather than an engineer and that after groans there was (hopefully) a design tweak to strengthen the tubes.

It's a tough life for aeroplanes or bike frames - built light out of stuff that doesn't really like lots of repeated flexing - and honestly cutting a hole in a thin wall tube is adding to risk - especially if not part of original design.

Have a nosy at those lightweight drilled road racers - it was a bit trial and error - but drop-outs, brakes, cranks even were considered fair game - never the frame tubes - even tho they were steel and much more likely to bend fail rather than snap like how aluminium alloy & composite stuff breaks.

Sadly, it does happen that products fail - news to me about those Scott's - but that would have been a reinforced hole with a thread insert rather than just like a rim without eyelet.

Also as well, most products are put together by rotating teams - not necessarily true that someone's making call to have longer lasting kit as opposed to shiny sells well. In fact it could be cynically argued that makers want replacement new bikes sold every few years rather than making stuff durable.

Its my first day here - I was just chipping in with how I think any engineer would grimace a bit about cutting a hole into thin wall tubes - just based on what they would have heard on loop in class for a few years.

Outcomes are important here; if the seat tube cracks, the likely outcome is you get annoyed and post a message on singletrack about it, you're not that likely to break up in mid air.

The only thing I've grimaced at is your pseudoscience and conspiracy theories

😀 I'm still saving to buy a Stealth post so not drilled it yet , lets not forget its an Orange Alpine so no light weight XC frame its heavier than the filing cabinet it leans against in my garage 🙂
I'm not worried about drilling the hole/slot it will be fine I ride like a nonce anyway. It has a standard Reverb at the moment.

If anyone has a Stealth 30.9mm Reverb/right hand for sale let me know 😀

If I already had an external Reverb, I possibly wouldn't be making holes for a stealth tbh! What's wrong with the old one?

(my bike had awful hose routing with some clash issues, and KS Levs are expensive, and the frame was worth ****-all, was my reasoning)

Mine a burly full Sus Freeride frame. The reason for swapping is I have the option and plus I could get a 150mm drop stealth v 125mm drop standard

As a mechanical engineering graduate, can I just chip in with the input that drilling holes in a frame is a really bad idea.

Well when you have a few years experience in the real world rather than in academia maybe you will realise that some times holes need to be drilled

And besides the stress scenario that an aeroplane fuselage (effectively a pressure vessel of sorts)is subjected to is quite different to that of drilling a hole in a seat tube. Get off your engineering high horse, you aren't the only engineer on STW, being a graduate doesn't mean naff all til you have done your time on the job

If scratches on tubes are so bad then a stealth dropper is a great idea!
No more uppy downy cable to scratch my bike!
Best get the drill out...

Current Reverb is 5 years old and a bit wobbly, works though goes up with a solid clunk 😀 is been great ridden every week summer and winter broke once in my first week, then I broke it hitting the deck at full tilt....

So is the general consensus that I'll be safe or I'll die?

Yeah, one or the other.

For anyone interested... team bikes were done the same as mine before they came from Specialized ready done.

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consensus

You really expect that from STW?

You really expect that from STW?

Couldn't resist a bit of trolling...

As a mechanical engineering graduate, can I just chip in with the input that drilling holes in a frame is a really bad idea.

A small hole will have almost no material impact on the strength of the structure. In fact, as a "graduate" you should know that holes are often drilled deliberately either to increase the structure's I-value or as a crack-stopper.

I'd be wary on a carbon frame in case stuff starts to delaminate inside and out of sight, but steel? In particular, the RSJs that Orange use? If it's going to break, it'll be somewhere else on the frame.

Orange ... If it's going to break...

Surely you mean "it'll already have a cracked swing arm but worth checking the shock mounts too". 😉

While your wan*king over who's got what degree and talking about aeroplanes and stealth droppers I'll be undoing my QR seat clamp dropping my seat post manually and shredding some singletrack

"undoing my QR seat clamp dropping my seat post manually and shredding some single track"

ha - same strategy here! Dropper posts look great when they work, not so much having to ride for half a day with the saddle stubbornly stuck on low. I've seen a couple of riders get taken out with the seats firing back up at them too. I was reading an enthusiastic review about a fancy new bike with dropper post lever and another to lock the suspension and all I could think was, "How did that make it into the shops, given it's impossible to turn upside down to fix a trail mechanical without knackering extra sticky up thumb switches?"

(bah humbug etc)

was reading an enthusiastic review about a fancy new bike with dropper post lever and another to lock the suspension and all I could think was, "How did that make it into the shops, given it's impossible to turn upside down to fix a trail mechanical without knackering extra sticky up thumb switches?"

No no no! Don't start the debate on what way up a bike should be when fixing a mechanical. 😡
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/turning-bike-upside-down-to-fix-punctures ]THE thread[/url]

I've seen a couple of riders get taken out with the seats firing back up at them too.

As a Mechanical Engineering Grad with a 1st, I drilled a carbon SB66, took to Alps, twice. Broke wheels. Not dead.

Stevet1 - I'm calling bullshit.

Even if it is true, how many dropper posts have been sold? hundreds of thousands maybe... hardly the norm is it?

Stevet1 - Member

I'm calling bullshit.

To be fair, if your seatpost goes up unexpectedly and you try and move as if it's not there, shit gets real... Had that once when I'd done some top quality DIY maintenance on a previously-reliable post.

hahah - when I said 'taken out' I didn't mean killed or something! I mean enough of a hit in the balls to stop them riding for a bit. Would be great it they worked as ejector seats tho : )

have you seen that Gravity Dropper singletrack review youtube? "if you do get it wrong, when you're hovering and it hits you - it's [i]quite[/i] painful" - I bet!

but sure, this is all about the Reverb type ones - using similar technology as height adjustable office chairs - which likewise have never ever failed annoyingly...

alsolofty - Member

have you seen that Gravity Dropper singletrack review youtube? "if you do get it wrong, when you're hovering and it hits you - it's quite painful" - I bet!

That's just 100% rider error though. (and if you sit on yourself on a standard saddle it's not much fun either)

you do know you can slow the return rate on a reverb right?

And even on fast, it doesn't do that. Gravity Dropper Turbo and maybe some of the cheapos are the only ones that can, but only if you're operating them completely wrong.

"as a crack-stopper"
this might be in the context of an extra hole at the bottom of a slotted seat-tube cut? which is to reduce the impact of a square edged stress riser that a simple slot would lead to

but..folk here on about maybe making a couple of holes, then sort of filing in-between - so it could easily lead to a stress riser edge - especially nosying at it closely at the sort of scale cracks check out to get started from

"drilled a carbon SB66, took to Alps, twice. Broke wheels. Not dead."
As another anecdote, Afan bike shop said they used to stock Yeti's but they had a run of carbon frames breaking so they don't stock that brand any more. It's quite likely the frame's overbuilt and reducing strength of a bit, like in most cases, is still safe enough...but a problem might be that it's done blind without checking out how it's holding together inside and there's no basic non-destructive testing in place to see how it all behaves with repeating straining under load

"Whyte have been drilling their frames"
They make lovely looking bikes...but in the rare cases that frames break, one of the key weak spot can be just behind the head-tube, pretty much exactly where they've drilled a couple of holes...I'm sure they've done the sums - but either it's weaker or heavier than it was before

anyway, I'm far from an expert - but I still reckon anyone with Material Science and Fracture Mechanics nouse should get a bit nervous about getting DIY busy with a drill on a bike frame

You still don't get it do you?

Yes it may be weaker but its still more than strong enough. The reduction of 0.0000000000001%* of the frame material makes little to no difference.

*I only have a science degree so I don't understand numbers**
**Some, all or non of this might be true

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<walks off whistling>

i think this thread needs your input... drilling and glueing..

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/alloy-bb-shell-come-away-from-carbon-frame-what-adhesive

Stevet1 - <walks off whistling>

Clearly designed by the marketing dept. and will obviously fold in half instead of lasting 2 billion years

[i]<walks off whistling> [/i]

It's got a CNC stem too.

I'm surprised you lived long enough to post the pictures.

I drilled my old frame ... and I'm a graphic designer.

Is that guaranteed certain death?

I drilled my frame because brant told me to.

It let all the water out of the BB shell and thus contributed to it not rusting.

So the hole I drilled in my frame must have made it strongerer in the long term.

It's got a CNC stem too.

George French, Sheffield BMX Legend

I need to try harder!I missed a bit..
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[url= http://postimage.org/ ]photo uploading[/url]

[img] [/img]

I used the same grommet from Orange a while back to fit a reverb stealth to a cove stiffee hardtail. I also had to Dremel a hole inside the bottom bracket shell in order to pass the hose up through.this was done after I skimmed 0.9mm off the inside of the seat tube in order to take the dropper post. worth it in the end though...

Did mine at the weekend :

[img] ?oh=c3bade025915687ab8f171771ba99a41&oe=55D5F868[/img]

based on this thread :

http://forums.mtbr.com/turner/stealth-mod-drilling-holes-your-alloy-frame-917427.html

A Dremel was my friend...

Greg from Turner said that I could go a bit lower if I wanted but I do not want the bottom hole to be below the tip of the weld bead at the bottom of the pivot mount.

Is anyone interested in sharing some pictures of their DIY drilled out seat tube. I'm about to attempt this on my 2013 Stumpy FSR and I'm nervous about the exact location (how close can I go to the welds??).