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Interesting bit of research. Its based on urban cycling in european cities so not directly comparable to most on here but even so I thought it of interest
Therefore, this data suggests that e-bike use leads to substantial increases in physical activity in e-bikers switching from private motorized vehicle and public transport, while net losses in physical activity in e-bikers switching from cycling were much less due to increases in overall travel distance.
SCIENCEDIRECT.COM Likely truish for me (switching from cycling bit), over the years as I aged my nice day out had dropped from 30- 40 miles to 15-25 miles then I got an e-bike and went back up to 30-40. Also, as I aged I did less exploring (for me it’s not fun hurting) so I would no longer just bomb down a track to see where it went, I’d check to see how far and how hilly back, esp if I’d already done a few miles, very much changed by having a e-bike , if you do blow up then you can just motor home.
other opinions will be available 😁
If your fit or we're fit and switch to predominantly ebike your fitness will decrease ,if your not fit or weren't fit and predominantly ride ebikes then your fitness will Increase.
Amazing how most people I know who have adopted the motorised bicycle have had an underlined health issue for the last decade I wasn,t aware of it indeed noticed .
I'm all for e-bikes. My mate who'd stopped riding recently got one. Now he's riding again. He's the first to admit he's massively out of shape, but is now smashing me on all the climbs and feeling fresh as a daisy after doing 20mile rides. He wouldn't be able to do 5 miles of our rides currently on his normal bike before blowing out of his rear end.
I get what I want out of my ride, he gets what he wants out of his, but the important bit is we're both riding.
I don't get why people feel they need to justify their bike choice and why others get upset on people who ride them. Bikes are wicked in all shapes, just ride and don't worry about what others think.
Loading his bike into my van is effort, though. Jeez that things heavy!
No. But it’s way more fun.
I run for fitness. It’s way less fun.
I get what I want out of my ride, he gets what he wants out of his, but the important bit is we're both riding.
I don't get why people feel they need to justify their bike choice and why others get upset on people who ride them. Bikes are wicked in all shapes, just ride and don't worry about what others think.
Yup
I agree that riding our e -tandem gets us further out and on bigger/longer rides, but we definitely are fitter if using the normal tandem.
For a non-rider to start riding an e-bike having not exercised previously, will get them fitter. Common sense really.
I ride for fun rather than fitness but in my unscientific observations my ebike rides are generally longer with more climbing than my MTB rides were, and Strava estimates I burn more calories. I also ride more often now because I can ride to the trails and still be full of beans when I get there. The ebike rides tend to be shorter than my gravel bike rides though, but that's only because I don't have an infinite battery on the ebike. I certainly don't feel any less fit since getting an ebike, and I feel it in the upper body more since it's a heavy bike, but if science says I'm not getting as much exercise then so be it 😊
Therefore, this data suggests that e-bike use leads to substantial increases in physical activity in e-bikers switching from private motorized vehicle and public transport,
I did 3000 miles commuting last year on an e-bike, commutes that would otherwise have been done by train or car. Not done as much e-bike commuting so far this year cos the weather was minging for most of January and February.
If your fit or we're fit and switch to predominantly ebike your fitness will decrease ,if your not fit or weren't fit and predominantly ride ebikes then your fitness will Increase.
This is it in a nutshell isn't it? If using an eBike gets you out more then yes, it'll make you fitter. If you're already out there and now have a motor doing some of the work it'll make you less fit.
But, that fitness and "earning your turns" thing isn't for everyone. Some people just want the funs bits where others say you have more fun if you've earned it.
If people understand how good lower-level exercise is for cardio capacity they'd stop talking about e-bikes being no good for your fitness.
You need more than just base level work for high fitness but you don't actually get well-rounded fitness by just smashing it for 90 mins every ride either. The fittest I ever was or get is by riding at a lower level for about 85% of the time, the rest at very HI with the rides being either one level or the other, not mixed. If that's what having an e-bike does for you there's a good change you'll get fitter overall in time.
If you're already out there and now have a motor doing some of the work it'll make you less fit.
In many riders cases yes but if the motor allows you to keep a lid on the effort for many of your rides and helps you recover more or feel fresher for the rides when you really do give it some welly, you could end up fitter.
It's not what you ride, it's time spent in different effort zones and the separation or polarisation of those levels. What you ride is less important than understanding how to structure your rides and varying the effort levels.
But also yes, some people just want to ride more and fitness isn't the point. Like 'active travel' isn't always helpful, some people just want to travel and not need a car. I think tying exercise to cycling as a core need is missing some of the other benefits and risks alienating people.
And the answer is a firm no
It’s a no, but not a firm one IMO. The study shows that while ebiking is less metabolically taxing than non-e, e-bikers tend to do more of it which takes up some of that slack.
The take away I get from that study is that e-bikes generally mean more riding gets done and I think that’s cool.
You need more than just base level work for high fitness but you don't actually get well-rounded fitness by just smashing it for 90 mins every ride either
This is like the 80/20 rule in running. 80% of your work should be easy so that you can do the 20% for maximum benefit. And that works if you're doing a good volume of work. So if you're cycling for 10+ hours per week and have 8 hours easy on an eBike and 2 hours smashing yourself then it's a great way to build fitness. The issue comes if you're only doing 2 hours per week as you don't spend long enough at high intensities to get real benefits. If you're short on time then if you want to build fitness use those hours to work really hard then use the time you can't ride to recover.
So (aware this could be taking the thread off track), if you only ride for 2 hours per week ride hard as you have the rest of the week to recover from it. If you ride for 10+ hours then some polarisation is a good thing.
It's a tough one to judge. I've had my e-bike (Specialized Turbo Levo), for five years now. I got it to help me get back on the bike and riding after a long fight with cancer shenanigans. I'm happily recovered now, but my fitness hasn't come back. Is that because I naturally reach for the Levo when I do yesterday's 30 mile loop, while my Stage 6 generally only comes out for local, easier 10-15 mile loops? Or is it because prior to getting a bit peaky, I was in my late 40's and now I'm in my mid 50's? I don't know the answer, but age and health have certainly had a significant impact on me.
Almost every mountain biker I know owns an e-bike now. Even the complete throbber who made snide comments about my motorbike every time I've bumped into him over the last few years (I honestly can't wait to catch up with him on the trails this summer). I think for a lot of us who are naturally slowing down e-bikes are a fantastic way to keep riding the trails. If my overall fitness has taken a bit of a hit, then I'm okay with that as long as I can still get up to the top of Dumyat on my bike without having to spend the rest of the week lying on the sofa trying to recover.
I love riding my bike, but without my Levo I don't think I'd be riding anywhere near as much nowadays.
my ebike rides are generally longer with more climbing than my MTB rides were, and Strava estimates I burn more calories.
LOL. I'm pretty sure Strava doesn't adjust for it being an e bike. But unless you've got a power meter connected Stravas calorie calc is a bit of a joke anyway. I'm pretty certain it estimates the same for mtb as for road whereas on rough ground both climbing and descending are harder work on mtb.
My e bike is out of action at the moment and have been riding the analogue again for a few weeks. Last few have been c 2/3 of the distance and elevation gain and I'm much more tired at the end. On the e bike you just don't get those upper z3 and z4 efforts on climbs and don't reach the absolute power heights through the legs (my thighs were sore last night).
Good for Z2 fitness, good if it gets you out doing some exercise more often, but even as someone who rides unpowered bikes on road nearly every day I'm not off road (and my fake commute has 450m of climbing over 25km) my fitness (leg strength and endurance) is clearly not as good as pre- emtb
My mate who'd stopped riding recently got one. Now he's riding again. He's the first to admit he's massively out of shape, but is now smashing me on all the climbs and feeling fresh as a daisy after doing 20mile rides. He wouldn't be able to do 5 miles of our rides currently on his normal bike before blowing out of his rear end.
I don't get why people feel they need to justify their bike choice
On the contrary you quite clearly do 🙂
( Which is fine BTW)
my ebike rides are generally longer with more climbing than my MTB rides were, and Strava estimates I burn more calories.
LOL. I'm pretty sure Strava doesn't adjust for it being an e bike. But unless you've got a power meter connected Stravas calorie calc is a bit of a joke anyway. I'm pretty certain it estimates the same for mtb as for road whereas on rough ground both climbing and descending are harder work on mtb.
My e bike is out of action at the moment and have been riding the analogue again for a few weeks. Last few have been c 2/3 of the distance and elevation gain and I'm much more tired at the end. On the e bike you just don't get those upper z3 and z4 efforts on climbs and don't reach the absolute power heights through the legs (my thighs were sore last night).
Good for Z2 fitness, good if it gets you out doing some exercise more often, but even as someone who rides unpowered bikes on road nearly every day I'm not off road (and my fake commute has 450m of climbing over 25km) my fitness (leg strength and endurance) is clearly not as good as pre- emtb
Yeah I don't expect Strava to be accurate.
I won't pretend to know anything about zones (see previous "fun rather than fitness" comment), but according to my Garmin I do spend a bit of time in Z4, whatever that means. I don't have any non-ebike stats to compare as I only bought the Garmin for the Orbea RS Toolbox app when I got my Rise in January.
I always get home with a big smile on my face, which is why I do it 🙂
I think this is way too nuanced for yes/no answers
Forget about off road for a minute and look at e commuting. If an E commute bike gets you riding to work or the shops more and sitting in a car less you will get fitter. It's not even a discussion. My wife commuted for a couple of years on an electric sit up and beg Dutch bike. She has previously had a normal Dutch bike but living in a village called 'Steep' it was bloody hard work getting home, trashed her dodgy knee and the habit never set in and I don't blame her. With the E commute bike she rode pretty much every day come rain or shine.....in office clothes...no shower required. The fact that she could do it in office clothes tells you all you need to know about the intensity.....but as a healthy way to get to work - a total no brainer. But if you were a diehard and commited daily commuter already on a normal bike and you went electric you could could probably make the case it was a retrograde step health wise.
To be honest, I've lost interest in the pro/anti emtb debate and if it is better or worse for you. Its getting boring and they are now ubiquitous and the off road riding landscape is not going to return to how it was 15 years ago. I don't have one but if I had the cash I might be interested though it probably wouldn't be the first thing I'd do with the money. You do you and all bikes are great. Riding any bike is better than not riding at all and it's meant to be about having fun. Sure, riding hard up a hill on a normal bike is often type 2 fun, but some of us like that too. If you are training to race or ride around the world, you might have a different agenda and training plan but for most of us, getting out on whatever is in the shed is a positive step for body and soul.
Mixed ride yesterday - ebikes and normal. I was on an ebike
All eebs Sunday and going for it in most places. I'm guessing I used higher assistance for a lot of it over yesterdays ride as it was a faster ride, but less effort. I may find the ebike powerzones later.
Solo eeb on Friday
My last normal ride last weekend
So, much more effort on the normal bike as you'd expect. I could up the effort on the ebike and hit more Z3. You can get your HR up if you want, but I'm guessing most people don't. Regardless of that I just find ebikes don't build your leg strength anything like as much as you need to be normal bike fit. I'm not very fit at the moment, so those stats are for a bit of a biffer rather than someone in good form
On the e bike you just don't get those upper z3 and z4 efforts on climbs and don't reach the absolute power heights through the legs (my thighs were sore last night).
Only because you choose not to do that work. Stick it in Eco rather than Turbo and you can still work plenty hard enough on climbs.
Since I've had my gravel bike my use of the ebike has dropped off, mostly because my riding mates and I all enjoy gravel rides together. But when I drag myself out for a solo ride (as apart from a shopping trip when I still use the gravel) I find it easier to persuade myself to get out on the ebike.
But after the first mile or so I find myself properly into it and switch mostly into eco, or even turn the motor off. It's a big old lump (Scott Genius) but rides fine and I like to get home with all 5 bars of battery still showing.
As above, I think the E stands for Explore. I'm happy to go down an unknown bit to poke about knowing it won't be a problem turning round and riding back up
Heading towards my mid 50's and knowing an eeb was in my future I decided to up my overall strength game and round out my training to more than just cycling.
Now at 55 I'm about a year into a Turbo Levo and feel fitter and stronger. I do my training off of the bike and ride it guilt free, it's ace 😎
Still riding other bikes too but definitely not as much.
On the e bike you just don't get those upper z3 and z4 efforts on climbs and don't reach the absolute power heights through the legs (my thighs were sore last night).Only because you choose not to do that work. Stick it in Eco rather than Turbo and you can still work plenty hard enough on climbs.
I'm on an Orbea Rise, usually riding with people on full power bikes and I almost never use turbo- pretty much leave it in Trail now but even climbing in Eco isn't the same. I just never get to those extreme efforts where I have to properly rest at the top (or part way up) a steep climb. That makes sense to me - I've got assistance.
God, this is an old topic isn't it?
In my own experience, I switched to riding mostly ebike about 3 years ago, they're just more fun IMHO. More miles, more runs, more access to new places I want to ride.
If I ride my normal bike now it's harder and I'm less good at it, personally I think it's more mental. I love riding my normal bike, but the frustration of griding up something for ages... I keep it for uplift days really.
Again, IME ebikes have changed the way I ride, on my normal bike I'd ride XC style loops, trail centres, local places, off-piste whatever I'd ride a 15km-25km loop. On my ebike I ride runs, mostly off-piste / local stuff. I'm riding further, for longer and getting a lot more descending in, so when I've had a big day my legs still ache, but more now it's shoulders and arms.
It's a bit like "do you get as much exercise on a rowing machine as in a rowing boat?" Totally comes down to your personal decisions.
I'm liking ebike for daily off-road commutes, and self-uplifts on steep stuff, and singlespeed hardtail for most other riding. I could do the commute on a geared bike (I still haven't managed the hardest climb on the singlespeed) but I don't think I'd work as hard in the gym - and, particularly as we age, strength matters just as much as aerobic fitness. (The ebike also demands more strength to ride twisty stuff fast).
My own view is that e-bikes can only be seen as a good thing when looking at population health.
They get people out exercising who would either just sit at home or go out on a motor bike. So it’s a physical and mental health benefit
Ive had one 18months and got fitter using it. (Although I do think I ride it very different to most) Completely agree with those above saying they are actually good for base fitness. What more could you want , base fitness + fun
Went out on mine yesterday. 25miles 3,500ft of climbing predominantly in highest power setting. Also spent 2-3mins in my highest rate zone.
There were plenty of people out too on their e-bikes tootling along very low cadence not even sweating. That’s not for me, but if it works for them fair enough and there are health benefits to them doing that
It's got me riding more.
I did 40 miles yesterday on a normal gravel bike and today I'm doing a 40 mile commute on an ebike
Without an ebike I'd be in the car
God, this is an old topic isn't it?
Yes but I thought some actual real data might be of interest hence posting the research
Now that I predominantly ride on an ebike in a mixed group, when I am on my normal bike I find I'm just as fast (maybe faster) for the first 60-90mins but my strength endurance tapers off much quicker. Part of that is poor fuelling as I am used to not needing it on the ebike, but I think the larger part of it is the lack of conditioning from the ebike.
I am riding more than I have been for years though, which also helps offset some of the impact.
Not speaking based on the research - but from my own experience, I get more exercise as it now enables me to ride more like I have been used to.
I don’t need to rely on the patience of my friends who aren’t disabled. That’s important as I don’t enjoy riding on my own. For me riding is an activity I enjoy doing with others.
Not sure it’s relevant but it made me smile
mrs is a rambler and literally today on a walk she was speaking to R, a sprightly 80year old lady walker. R was really chuffed, she’d just got a road e-bike and as she is now back riding with her long term group (she had stopped as their rides had got too long and quick for her) but with the e she can now keep up. I call that a win.
The Study only deals with short distances is it really relatable in any way to behaviour for longer trips? I will often walk for short trips of 5k.
E-bikers reported significantly longer trip distances for both e-bike (9.4 km) and bicycle trips (8.4 km) compared to cyclists for bicycle trips (4.8 km), as well as longer daily travel distances for e-bike than cyclists for bicycle (8.0 vs. 5.3 km per person, per day, respectively)
The Study only deals with short distances is it really relatable in any way to behaviour for longer trips?
Quite a good point. Now I've read the study more carefully it seems that it focuses on urban/utility cycling and uses some broad assumptions about the Metabolic Equivalent Task minutes. I think it's a really interesting study doing a good job with the data available, but I don't think it's sensible to extrapolate its findings to sport/leisure cycling.
A lot of my friends are shift workers (I gave up shifts about a year ago) and find themselves absolutely knackered when it comes to getting out on their mountain bikes. Most now have ebikes, and are finding it’s bringing the fun back into mountain biking and making it a lot more bearable after long days/nights. I’ve stuck with a standard bike.
I’ve found my own fitness has improved with occasional use. One person will have to use the unpowered bike on the climbs and we’ll switch each time. Excellent for stuff like wharncliffe/yearsley. Kind of feels like interval training - especially if you’re having to give it some beans on the climbs if you’re not on the ebike to keep up.
Am I as fit going out every week on the ebike with the odd analogue ride chucked in Vs going out on the Amish bike every week? No
But (and especially through winter) the ebike gets me out when I normally wouldn't bother at all, so that has to be a good thing?
The acoustic v electric ratio does increase during summer though
Questioning whether someone if getting more or less exercise when doing different activities is missing the point. They are doing an activity and that is what everyone should be doing for their own benefit. I ride my bike very often but typically only for an hour each time. I could get even more exercise by riding for 1.5 hours but so what, who is counting and why should any other than myself be interested in how much effort I put in when I am exercising?
Was at 'Degla on monday. quite a few ebikes but not as many as in the surrey hills.
A couple of people came flying past on the big climb - stood up sprinting on their eebs. Looked like a good work out, as it wouldnt have taken log to get to the top at that pace. I wonder how much climbing the battery would manage at that speed.
Plenty of others using them in the more normal manner - appearing afraid of aerobic exercise - but if that got them more (or any) descents and singletrack, thats a good exercise in itself.
Our bodies don’t see an e-bike or a normal bike, they just see intensity (with probably a few caveats for cadence not really relevant to the exact point being discussed). If you get the ideal mix of intensity, volume and frequency then your fitness increases. It matters not which bike it’s on.
Personally it’s been good for my fitness, but I was doing far too much high intensity work. I have a better mix now. I’m also lucky enough to have a daughter with exceptional power to weight on her eeb and loves going all out, so high intensity work hasn’t been lost 😆
I’ve had a few weeks recently of just getting out on the normal bike, it felt good, even doing some big days with my daughter and nephew, with both of them on eebs. I do find that I need to reset my brain when jumping on a normal bike; a brief warm up followed by some high intensity (but not exhausting), fast sprints seems to work for me…
According to Garmin watch and app yesterdays 45km 1200m ride increased both my aerobic and anaerobic fitness. Would I have benefitted more on a non ebike? Yes, but then there's no way I'd have done 45km and I wouldn't have contemplated it after a medium intensity Tuesday evening ride.
So win win for fitness on ebike.
Our bodies don’t see an e-bike or a normal bike, they just see intensity (with probably a few caveats for cadence not really relevant to the exact point being discussed). If you get the ideal mix of intensity, volume and frequency then your fitness increases. It matters not which bike it’s on.
That's my take on it too.
Perhaps I don't ride my eMTB like the majority, but I tend to beast myself just as much on my eMTB as I do my non-assist MTBs. I just happen to cover more distance with more descending on the eMTB, i.e. more of the fun stuff. I don't pay a huge amount of attention to HR etc but looking at Garmin stats my HR zone spread, average HR, peak HR etc are all similar no matter what bike I ride.
Mine's a mid-power (Fazua Ride 60 equipped) eMTB so I tend to preserve battery if I'm planning a longer ride, so maybe that's why I tend to put the same human effort in as I do on my non-assisted riding.
Of course, I also do eMTB rides where I've felt knackered and thought "**** it" and relied more on the motor assist. But, if I didn't have the eMTB I'd either a) not have ridden in the first place, or b) had a less enjoyable slog of a ride feeling knackered. That sort of usage is very much the minority for me though.
Meh, did the world really need this study?
this is looking at City based Utility/Urban transport Cycling/E-cycling right? Not "leisure" "sport" or "competitive" flavoured cycling...
I read it as; for people who wouldn't previously use a bicycle, adopting an eeeb prompted more physical activity than they would normally achieve using public/private motorised transport (so a net positive).
For people who would normally cycle un-assisted, yes they exert themselves less (per-km travelled) using an eeeb (duh), but will extend the range/radius of their journeys somewhat (a net positive too I guess).
All of which we could have guessed at. One of the goals you might reasonably infer for "cycling as transport" is for users to arrive at their destination without over-exertion...
So people using labour saving devices, saving some labour, in an application where labour saving is desired isn't really all that shocking...
Still let's not miss the opportunity for sharing some bar graphs and stats waffle. Or telling the world how great non-commuter E-MTBs also are...
Having an ebike for the last year has certainly helped me get out on a bike much more regularly, going further and out for longer than I've managed on my other bikes since October '22. The odd long ride on my road bike has left me with pretty bad PEM for weeks, but I've not had that on the ebike, even when I've done VO2 intervals up 5-15min hills while also using max 250W motor assist.
I read it as; for people who wouldn't previously use a bicycle, adopting an eeeb prompted more physical activity than they would normally achieve using public/private motorised transport (so a net positive).
fittest I've ever been was when I had a pan-flat, 3 mile daily commute which I did on a low geared single speed, specifically to make sure I didn't try to hard and get sweaty. So probably about the effort level of an urban e-biker with even a gentle hill.
Just doing that for 12 minutes, twice a day was great... admittedly in combination with everything else I was doing. But I put a lot of stock into doing that gentle exercise first thing in the morning.