[url] http://www.cyclehelmets.org [/url]
I like this site.
I wear a helmet when I want to, usually to stop others saying 'why aren't you wearing a helmet?'
I remain to be convinced of the amazing protective powers of an inch of polystyrene.
I see a number of head injuries at work, in 10 years I've seen 2 cyclists, and god knows how many falls down stairs, trips over cats, slips on ice, and motor car related head injuries.
accidents happen, not every car driver purposefully knocks some one off.
They might not have meant to do it, but they've doubtless been grossly negligent if they've ended up killing somebody.
I remain to be convinced about the amazing protective powers of a exploding bag of gas inside a big rubber condom that is the car airbag?I remain to be convinced of the amazing protective powers of an inch of polystyrene.
god knows how many falls down stairs, trips over cats, slips on ice, and motor car related head injuries.
I presume they were all clumsy or stupid, unlike perks?
😉
Crikey are you an A&E consultant or a (road) sweeper like your profile says?
High Viz jackets: Florecent bit doesn't show up at night, the reflective bit does.
I have reflective material on my shoes, backpack and jacket. The road bike is bright yellow - not that this makes a huge difference.
Hi-viz jackets are a sensible thing to wear and only cost a couple of quid, but there is always the option of a properly tailored hi-viz cycling top/ jacket for daytime riding. Buy the kit and don't look like a twit!
In my view, riding at night on rural roads is safer because there is less traffic - most people are watching telly or going to bed. You can see when a vehicle is coming (in either direction). If i'm on a fast bit of road, it gives me warning and the opportunity to get out of the way, or stop. The downside of night riding is the drunken yob element driving back from a night out.
my housemate's brother in law was killed by some one getting out of the way of someone being grossly negligent. the "killer" was trying to save themselves and hit him by accidental. the "killer" has to live with that every day even though no charges were brought against them being that they really did nothing wrong, it was some one else's fault. OK maybe that's a freak accident, one chance in a million that wouldn't make any difference helmet or not but all the same it was an accident.They might not have meant to do it, but they've doubtless been grossly negligent if they've ended up killing somebody.
next time you hit some black ice, think "did I leave enough space, had there been a cyclist at the side of me?"
all i'm saying is all these people crying because they believe their civil rights are being taken away from them piss me off.
BigDummy - Memberi never said i was perfect
You didn't, but you'd need to be to get away with that kind of hysterical clither. [:wink:]
Quite. I mean....
what about the mental stability of your mates who shouldn't have egged you on to go down the bit you weren't comfy with but did anyway and saw you smash your head in on a rock and now have to live with seeing you disabled.
...that's not a helmet debate. That's a Darwin Award.
Anyone who has held a brush can call himself sweeper, but does he get right into the corners, young Grasshopper?
I work on ITU.
You really think it's simply a civil rights issue?
Well I am a Consultant (animal) Pathologist - Just was wondering about your qualification to make the statement
😉I see a number of head injuries at work, in 10 years I've seen 2 cyclists, and god knows how many falls down stairs, trips over cats, slips on ice, and motor car related head injuries.
As a consultant animal pathologist foxyrider, how many cats that get tripped over by clumsy pedestrians would you say die as a result of their failure to wear helmets?
😉
no i think its a selfish issue as i said in my first post.
so what, the government may or may not decide that you should or should not wear a helmet. i'm sure people will start saying its the thin end of the wedge but its hardly Nazi Germany is it?
its mostly dogs statistically, BigDummy, but the Helmets made for cats are not very effective 😉 LOL - I laugh at my own joke Ho Ho Ha Ha
Consultant animal pathologist?
That sounds like an extremely interesting job....
What kind of work do you do then? Is it mainly livestock?
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I'm a vet specialising in pathology. I look at biopsies and cells from dogs and cats mostly to tell people what is wrong with their pets so the vet can treat them effectively. Same as medical pathologists do for humans. And before anyone thinks otherwise I do not work in research industry!
Sounds really interesting as a job.
My main observation after 20 odd years as a nurse, 10 in ITU, is that the best way to reduce the rate of head injuries is for alcoholics to be forced to live in bungalows.
Cheers Crikey - Hmm yes I can well believe that - Hopefully we will not see a rise in alcoholic cyclists 😉
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See not wearing the right hat!
You become someone else problem if you come off and sustain a head injury that could have been avoided by a helmet.
I've refused to ride with guys that haven't worn a helmet in the past, I don't paticularly want to be scooping up bits of skull and brains when I could be riding my bike.
I'm still surprised how many riders on or off road still refuse to ride with a helmet, why!!.
Walking in the peaks yesterday 2 guys rode past on Derwent Edge with no helmet's, all the gear and no idea, or is that lid, go figure
Maybe my views are also coloured by the fact that when I started riding, no-one wore a helmet, in fact I was the first to get one; a Specialized Sub-6.
Now everyone wears them, and seems convinced that they are amazing pieces of technology that will save you from a serious head injury.
I still see them as lumps of polystyrene, admittedly very much prettier, but still...
no i think its a selfish issue as i said in my first post.
Which is completely missing the point of my query about it being a civil rights issue, as you said:
all i'm saying is all these people crying because they believe their civil rights are being taken away from them piss me off.
The point being that it's nothing to do with civil rights, and all to do with safety and health.
If it's to do with safety make wearing them compulsory. If it's to do with saving some insurance company cash don't make it compulsory but reduce the amount of a claim if no helmet is worn.
Crikey raises a good point.
I went off cycling completely when I was 11 or 12. My father was insistent that I had to wear a lid. My lid didn't fit and gave me headaches. I refused to wear it. I stopped riding. I next had a bike at 18, didn't much like wearing a helmet, rode quite a bit, had the odd spill, never hit my head, gradually started wearing helmets because the Uni club more-or-less insisted on it and have mostly worn them for any risky riding since, buit have never regarded them as an essential safety item all the time.
Doesn't advance the debate any, but as a matter of common sense, we all know people who appear to have survived crashes only because they were helmeted, but we also (presumably) all know people who are still alive despite riding bicycles without helmets on.
🙂
If it's to do with safety make wearing them compulsory.
Have you not bothered to read the rest of this debate (note I also mention health)?
If it's to do with saving some insurance company cash don't make it compulsory but reduce the amount of a claim if no helmet is worn.
Or are you just anti-cyclist and on the wrong website?
Yeh But Crikey I believe that that high-impact polystyrene, of which the softer stuff packs most of the electronic equiment we buy and fridges etc, must to something when it fractures when you crash ?I still see them as lumps of polystyrene, admittedly very much prettier, but still...
we also (presumably) all know people who are still alive despite riding bicycles without helmets on.
I can do better than that - I survived a helmetless accident which I'm convinced would have resulted in the sort of helmet damage which usually results in people saying "the helmet saved my/his life". Granted I had a trip to casualty out of it, but that was about it (and I may well have got that with the helmet). I never fail to be amazed by the magical properties some people seem to think a bicycle helmet has.
What I always find a bit bizarre is parents riding along who decide its important enough to put helmets on their kids, yet are happy enough not to wear one themselves.
Mike T
If your point is that failure to wear a helmet is taking an unnecessary risk then surely you should avoid mountain biking all together?
[i]"The point being that it's nothing to do with civil rights, and all to do with safety and health."[/i]
Oh sorry, I thought we were discussing the recent court ruling.
I'm in favour of cyclists wearing helmets, but against cyclists being blamed for their own injuries.
Was that for concussion or a stitch-up - both of which would probably be prevented with a helmet if it was in a position where the helmet covered your skull? Yeh its not going to prevent all injuries but probably goes a long way?Granted I had a trip to casualty out of it, but that was about it
Surprisingly enough my kids fall off a great deal more frequently than me. I am simply not going to fall off at the kind of speeds that I ride with my kids at.What I always find a bit bizarre is parents riding along who decide its important enough to put helmets on their kids, yet are happy enough not to wear one themselves.
. Convinced of that are you? What about the car that didn't see you or the pedestrian walking out in front of you? I think buffalobill was taking about the families that cycles along the roads - I am sure many older children can ride quite fast and also be involved in accidents.I am simply not going to fall off at the kind of speeds that I ride with my kids at
"amazed by the magical properties"
Not magic, it's called load spreading. Instead of a point impact fracturing your skull, it's absorbed into the styrene and distributes the energy over a larger area of your head. It does itself fracture under big loads, but by then it's done it's work.
helmtes mess ur hair up. freemod of choice=MAX
I got T-boned by someone driving a Land Rover. I wasn't wearing a helmet, I didn't hit my head.
Hmm well I guess you were lucky not to hit you head then - Period!I got T-boned by someone driving a Land Rover. I wasn't wearing a helmet, I didn't hit my head.
I think the polystyrene and the actual 'something on the head' works for a small range of potential injuries; that 12 to 15 mph tumble type of thing.
I think the problems begin when people start to view them as the bicycle equivalent of seatbelts, and assume accordingly that not having a helmet equals certain death.
I don't think that a cycle helmet can be the difference between walking away or ending up severely brain damaged.
If it were the case, we would see clear evidence that head injuries in cyclists have declined, and that evidence simply doesn't exist.
It's a very subtle, very complex problem, which is unfortunately presented as a black or white, helmet or death issue.
Making helmets compulsory will cause a drop in the number of cyclists, but the only thing that seems to improve cycling safety is having more bums on bikes....
"helmtes mess ur hair up. freemod of choice=MAX" 😀
Personally using a helmet offroad is a given - too many slow speed falls which could have ended in head injury to say otherwise. On the road I wear a lid too but mainly as I've fallen cornering a few times and was happy to have something on top to protect me if a curb had been in the way. If a car hits you then I'd doubt the lid would do much good - best to have lots of lights and ride defensively!
Convinced of that are you? What about the car that didn't see you or the pedestrian walking out in front of you?
Yes. Completely convinced. I don't live in town though, and wouldn't take young kids on to a dangerous road.
When I myself ride or drive in town I most certainly do look at pedestrians to figure out if they're going to step into the road - never ride in the edge of the road for that very reason, plus others.
A helmet is never going to be some sort of guaranteed head insurance. But given the fact I have to share the roads with a certain drivers who look less favourably on pedal power its worth it imo.
And I haven't worked out how to attach my light to my head without the aid of said helmet...
Making helmets compulsory will cause a drop in the number of cyclists, but the only thing that seems to improve cycling safety is having more bums on bikes....
That's it precisely. Helmets are to prevent minor injuries, not to save your life when a car hits you, or to allow drivers a get out of jail card if you weren't wearing one.
We are not talking about helmet or death are we here - its about helping to prevent injury - being hit by a car at 60mph will be fatal - helmet or not - being knocked of at 15-20mph by a car, pedestrian or just bad luck will result surely in less severe injuries on the whole - and thus it would be advisable to wear a helmet. also I don't think there is good statistically sound research out there about cycle injuries (especially those not reported) and the wearing of helmets period! Just like wether to wear seat belts - before it was compsulary no one really used them so not much data to study? I am on the fence with helmets but if they were made a legal requirement I would not have a problem wearing mine all the time as I do anyway!
If your point is that failure to wear a helmet is taking an unnecessary risk then surely you should avoid mountain biking all together?
I was just going to say that.
What is more dangerous:
* me riding to work this morning without a helmet; or
* someone getting rad air to the max dude while wearing a helmet?
Ban mountain biking, I say!
I'm pro-helmet but anti-compulsion. And this contributory negligence business is plain daft. If another driver hits me in my car, causing me injury, would a judge say "you should have been driving a volvo instead of a fiesta, it's your own fault"? I think not...
Speaking completely honestly, I would wear one all the time if made to.
The main reason I don't is because in the winter I hate all that 'how do I keep my ears warm?' faffing that helmets bring on; I'd rather just wear a hat. In summertime, I like to ride with the wind blowing through what's left of my hair.
I remain to be convinced of the need for a helmet, but I think it's a debate worth exploring, and one best done in a civilised, calm way, without all the 'helmets will break your neck' or 'your brains will run out of your nose' stuff.
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I admire this man's approach.
No helmet and wrong side of the road. Anarchist.
No helmet and wrong side of the road. Anarchist.
It's worse than that, he's rolled the wrong trouser leg up - clearly a Mason.
Its a motor scooter look its got an engine in the back - so def illegal as he's a motorcyclist without a helmet - report him quick 😉
brokeback mountain (biking)
i think everyone at radio 2 should wear helmets, not just cyclists...
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has anyone done that one yet?
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taxi!
Was that for concussion or a stitch-up
Both. I'm not disputing that a helmet would have helped decrease my injuries, simply that what many people think would have been a life threatening injury but for the helmet (due to the damage sustained to the helmet) often isn't.
I'm pro-helmet but anti-compulsion. And this contributory negligence business is plain daft. If another driver hits me in my car, causing me injury, would a judge say "you should have been driving a volvo instead of a fiesta, it's your own fault"? I think not...
This is the main problem with it isn't it? The idea that a victim is responsible for the severity of his injuries quickly becomes ridiculous. It's hard to avoid the suspicion that in this case it's underpinned by some unspoken belief that cyclists shouldn't be on the roads, but if they want to try it, well, they'd better be prepared for the consequences of their foolish actions. As ransos says it's hard to imagine the same logic being applied to drivers.
It's hard to avoid the suspicion that in this case it's underpinned by some unspoken belief that cyclists shouldn't be on the roads
I would say that given how this was a Radio 2 debate, "unspoken" isn't the word you're looking for. 😉
I shave my head so I enjoy wearing a helmet in winter to keep warm but in summer the vents are ace but the sun can burn so a helmet is always good.
Too many vents and you can get zebra stripes in sunny weather!
Helmet saved my life back in 1993-94 when I wore when cycling during A'levels. Slipped around the bend and fell flat and my head bounced off the tarmac.
I was lucky-my nose and head wouldn't not have bounced-maybe squished or improved my face.
It was an old Bell thing worn in xc races-thank you Mum and thank god I ignored the people laughing at my bellend helmet.
God it was stuffy but as big as some of the werid ones that came out.
We don't realise helmet design now is so excellent for fit and comfort-abit more shock absorption would be great.
Helmet saved my life back in 1993-94 when I wore when cycling during A'levels. Slipped around the bend and fell flat and my head bounced off the tarmac.
See my posts above.
I agree with you partially Aracer but helmets have saved me from serious injury.
If a lorry was driven by the Terminator to stop me saving mankind then no helmet is gonna help.
It will reduce injury to an extent but also everyone reacts differently to an impact and also if the brain gets side ways compared to front and back -the blood vessels receive more shock andhence why boxers hit you sideways.
I think people should have a choice-but in Australia they made it a law to wear helmets which data proves that cycling was reduced after this law-correlation or just crap helmets?
I'd like to know how many xc riders wear knee armor? is it worth it at slow speeds or descents?
Needs a study.
But for an insurance company to reduce payout?-depends on the wording of laws-no law on helmets but did the rider try to reduce or increase care during riding?-snag.
We need a change in law and attitudes.
This is worse than why should I wear a seatbelt from the 80's? -it'll will help to save you but not 100% -nothing is.
Its your head-protect it if you can.
I love my helmet and wish I could polish it daily... 😈
I wonder how many people argue against helmets on here and then pad up for trailcentres?
(I almost rode into a grey haired old biddy who cycled across my path randomly last week - she was wearing a sombrero, I'm not joking.)
[i]I wonder how many people argue against helmets on here and then pad up for trailcentres[/i]
Pad up? No way. Just no.
If I'm riding stuff I need to wear body armour for, I'm being a silly old man, and I should go and have a lie down.
lol
Helmet and gloves for MTBing. Helmet for long 'proper' rides on the road. Helmet for commuting on my MTB. No helmet for commuting on my girls' bike.
I don't really understand why this debate still goes on. I mean, I understand why some people are against the compulsory wearing of helmets, but I just don't get why you wouldn't. A few years ago, whilst riding back from the LBS, I got hit-and-run(ed) whilst I was the right of way at a roundabout; slightly wet road, clear viz, about 1100hrs in the morning. I crossed the roundabout with all the rights in the world. Right up until some woman pulled out, sent me across the back of her car, *****d off down the road and left me in the middle of the road where a mercedes E-class nearly finished me off. I ejected over the bars (inverted) and landed on the back of my head on the kerb stone. There was literally not a lot of helmet left (cheers to Giro for the crash replacement...), but I was all but in-tact. The police wanted photos of it etc, due to the damage sustained, but ultimately, nothing further was done. I would literally not be here if I'd not been wearing the lid and have not and will not ever set out on my bike without one again.
We've all got stories of crashes, usually caused by running out of talent if we're honest, but I have a slightly different take on it too. Whilst out riding with the wife (a doctor..) and a bunch of mates at Coed-y-Brenin some years ago, we stopped for a breather, away from the marked trail (but near a short-cut) as some lone rider, without a lid came by. As I said, we weren't on the actual trail or blocking his route. We said 'hi' and exchanged the usual MBer pleasantries (mum always said manners cost nothing...). Waiting for a return of the salutations, we instead got a load of abuse hurled at us as we were apparently blocking the trail. This guy was clearly going at it, presumably getting his fix of exercise etc etc (not really interested), but riding a trail centre, alone, in the p*ssing rain, without a lid? That's down-right irresponsible and selfish, because all of a sudden, your crash hasn't just ruined your day; it's ruined mine when I have to scrape you up off the floor, my wife has to deal with your cranial bleed and the forestry commission have to stretcher you off the hill. I'm fairly 'live and let live', but this really is one thing that ticks me off.
Out.
I can think of two crashes (one at about 4x the 12mph people seem to be fixated upon) which would have been lights out.
First was rlling down some big rock steps in the Lakes, didn quite get the weight in the right place adn was going a bit quick so the front wheel went under, I went over, and headbutted a rock, i actualy saw it coming and tucked my head in to aim my helmet at it rather than my face!
Second was bamford clogh, sily speed, flipped, again headfirst into the ground watching bits of helmet fly past.
And a few other minor ones where I've just tombled over and glanced my head against a rock.
Anyone not wearng one is earing their right to a darwin award.
I was all but in-tact
I would literally not be here if I'd not been wearing the lid and have not and will not ever set out on my bike without one again.
If you had hit your head hard enough to have died, you would have had some head injuries even though wearing a helmet. Concussion, at least.
thisisnotaspoon - whether to wear a helmet while MTBing and whether to wear one for all cycling are two rather different issues. Clearly, while riding off-road over rocks, there's a good chance that you'll have exactly the type of accident against which a helmet is of some use. Get hit by a bus and the internal injuries will mean that a helmet probably wouldn't be much use.
The thing which would make the biggest difference to safety on the roads is getting more people cycling. The thing which is a big factor in people not cycling is the perceived danger, which is increased through increased helmet-wearing.
Remind me - what are the accident statistics for bikes in, say, Amsterdam?
And what proportion of riders wear helmets?
Remind me - what are the accident statistics for bikes in, say, Amsterdam?And what proportion of riders wear helmets?
Yep, there's no link between numbers wearing helmets and numbers of head injuries.
(one at about 4x the 12mph people seem to be fixated upon)
If I read this correctly, you were doing 48mph, on a mtb?
Fair play to you - I've only slightly more than that on a road bike down Ventoux.
I bet there's a link between numbers of cyclists and numbers or accidents involving cyclists - inverse of course.
thisisnotaspoon - whether to wear a helmet while MTBing and whether to wear one for all cycling are two rather different issues. Clearly, while riding off-road over rocks, there's a good chance that you'll have exactly the type of accident against which a helmet is of some use. [b]Get hit by a bus and the internal injuries will mean that a helmet probably wouldn't be much use.[/b]
Although fracturing your skull against the road because you've just been knocked off in a slow speed collision by someone pulling out on you can't be much fun.
Never owned a helmet and never will.
Yup i wear a seatbelt, always have, nothing to do with the laws, there is no downside to wearing one.
Helmets, well it's a constant reminder that i might fall off and land on my head. too bloody hot, and here's the real reason, I've never found one that doesn't sit roughly 30 degrees across my bonce, yeh yeh, spaz head boy. No amount of foam padding makes any difference, i'd need one made to fit. and still probably wouldn't wear one.
I wear gloves when i ride, and shin-knee pads when downhilling... What's that you say, you downhill without a helmet? '****ing A' I do and have done for 20+ years. Sure I know i can't take the risk of running bar breaking drops, naturally i'd rip my head clean off if i impacted my bars, but that doesn't stop hurtling down anything vaguely human without my helmet.
Race down Stanage path anyone?
one of the guys i know from cov was out on his road bike and hit a rather large hole in the road and went over the bars, he was not weaing a helmet, he spent 4 years in and out of hospital having his eye socket, jaw and the rest of his face rebuilt as well as a long stint in a coma after the accident, the doctors said if he had been wearing a helmet he would be dead due to the way his brain swelled up etc, another guy who was wearing a helmet got tagged by a car and went head first into a curb, coma for a few weeks, severe memory loss, nothing broken tho......... moral of the stories, if its a big one and you land on your head your f****D. if its a small one it might just save your life or it might kill you, thats the truth, the debate will always go on,
i wear a lid to keep the g/f happy, if i have a big crash im aware that im goin to be in pain if its my fault or not. each to your own till brown decides,
I wear gloves when i ride, and shin-knee pads when downhilling... What's that you say, you downhill without a helmet? '**** A' I do and have done for 20+ years. Sure I know i can't take the risk of running bar breaking drops, naturally i'd rip my head clean off if i impacted my bars, but that doesn't stop hurtling down anything vaguely human without my helmet.
Another potential nominee for the Darwin Awards?
gohan - Member
one of the guys i know from cov was out on his road bike and hit a rather large hole in the road and went over the bars, he was not weaing a helmet...
Wow, that one certainly didn't turn out the way I was expecting!
but riding a trail centre, alone, in the p*ssing rain, without a lid? That's down-right irresponsible and selfish, because all of a sudden, your crash hasn't just ruined your day; it's ruined mine when I have to scrape you up off the floor, my wife has to deal with your cranial bleed and the forestry commission have to stretcher you off the hill.
Though you wouldn't have been upset at him doing all that if he'd had a lid on, despite the fact it would have made very little difference to the chances of you being inconvenienced by having to help out after he had a big stack?
Idlejohn, you're either on control or your not, some people don't seem to be able to understand that, it's all about riding within the conditions and your skill level, protection worn.
IdleJon - Member(I almost rode into a grey haired old biddy who cycled across my path randomly last week - she was wearing a sombrero, I'm not joking.)
was this in leicestershire and was she on a trike? Sounds like mrs julian's grandma, who was even been sighted on one occasion in the village wearing one sombrero on top of another sombrero.