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You really think it's simply a civil rights issue?
Well I am a Consultant (animal) Pathologist - Just was wondering about your qualification to make the statement
😉I see a number of head injuries at work, in 10 years I've seen 2 cyclists, and god knows how many falls down stairs, trips over cats, slips on ice, and motor car related head injuries.
As a consultant animal pathologist foxyrider, how many cats that get tripped over by clumsy pedestrians would you say die as a result of their failure to wear helmets?
😉
no i think its a selfish issue as i said in my first post.
so what, the government may or may not decide that you should or should not wear a helmet. i'm sure people will start saying its the thin end of the wedge but its hardly Nazi Germany is it?
its mostly dogs statistically, BigDummy, but the Helmets made for cats are not very effective 😉 LOL - I laugh at my own joke Ho Ho Ha Ha
Consultant animal pathologist?
That sounds like an extremely interesting job....
What kind of work do you do then? Is it mainly livestock?
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I'm a vet specialising in pathology. I look at biopsies and cells from dogs and cats mostly to tell people what is wrong with their pets so the vet can treat them effectively. Same as medical pathologists do for humans. And before anyone thinks otherwise I do not work in research industry!
Sounds really interesting as a job.
My main observation after 20 odd years as a nurse, 10 in ITU, is that the best way to reduce the rate of head injuries is for alcoholics to be forced to live in bungalows.
Cheers Crikey - Hmm yes I can well believe that - Hopefully we will not see a rise in alcoholic cyclists 😉
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See not wearing the right hat!
You become someone else problem if you come off and sustain a head injury that could have been avoided by a helmet.
I've refused to ride with guys that haven't worn a helmet in the past, I don't paticularly want to be scooping up bits of skull and brains when I could be riding my bike.
I'm still surprised how many riders on or off road still refuse to ride with a helmet, why!!.
Walking in the peaks yesterday 2 guys rode past on Derwent Edge with no helmet's, all the gear and no idea, or is that lid, go figure
Maybe my views are also coloured by the fact that when I started riding, no-one wore a helmet, in fact I was the first to get one; a Specialized Sub-6.
Now everyone wears them, and seems convinced that they are amazing pieces of technology that will save you from a serious head injury.
I still see them as lumps of polystyrene, admittedly very much prettier, but still...
no i think its a selfish issue as i said in my first post.
Which is completely missing the point of my query about it being a civil rights issue, as you said:
all i'm saying is all these people crying because they believe their civil rights are being taken away from them piss me off.
The point being that it's nothing to do with civil rights, and all to do with safety and health.
If it's to do with safety make wearing them compulsory. If it's to do with saving some insurance company cash don't make it compulsory but reduce the amount of a claim if no helmet is worn.
Crikey raises a good point.
I went off cycling completely when I was 11 or 12. My father was insistent that I had to wear a lid. My lid didn't fit and gave me headaches. I refused to wear it. I stopped riding. I next had a bike at 18, didn't much like wearing a helmet, rode quite a bit, had the odd spill, never hit my head, gradually started wearing helmets because the Uni club more-or-less insisted on it and have mostly worn them for any risky riding since, buit have never regarded them as an essential safety item all the time.
Doesn't advance the debate any, but as a matter of common sense, we all know people who appear to have survived crashes only because they were helmeted, but we also (presumably) all know people who are still alive despite riding bicycles without helmets on.
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If it's to do with safety make wearing them compulsory.
Have you not bothered to read the rest of this debate (note I also mention health)?
If it's to do with saving some insurance company cash don't make it compulsory but reduce the amount of a claim if no helmet is worn.
Or are you just anti-cyclist and on the wrong website?
Yeh But Crikey I believe that that high-impact polystyrene, of which the softer stuff packs most of the electronic equiment we buy and fridges etc, must to something when it fractures when you crash ?I still see them as lumps of polystyrene, admittedly very much prettier, but still...
we also (presumably) all know people who are still alive despite riding bicycles without helmets on.
I can do better than that - I survived a helmetless accident which I'm convinced would have resulted in the sort of helmet damage which usually results in people saying "the helmet saved my/his life". Granted I had a trip to casualty out of it, but that was about it (and I may well have got that with the helmet). I never fail to be amazed by the magical properties some people seem to think a bicycle helmet has.
What I always find a bit bizarre is parents riding along who decide its important enough to put helmets on their kids, yet are happy enough not to wear one themselves.
Mike T
If your point is that failure to wear a helmet is taking an unnecessary risk then surely you should avoid mountain biking all together?
[i]"The point being that it's nothing to do with civil rights, and all to do with safety and health."[/i]
Oh sorry, I thought we were discussing the recent court ruling.
I'm in favour of cyclists wearing helmets, but against cyclists being blamed for their own injuries.
Was that for concussion or a stitch-up - both of which would probably be prevented with a helmet if it was in a position where the helmet covered your skull? Yeh its not going to prevent all injuries but probably goes a long way?Granted I had a trip to casualty out of it, but that was about it
Surprisingly enough my kids fall off a great deal more frequently than me. I am simply not going to fall off at the kind of speeds that I ride with my kids at.What I always find a bit bizarre is parents riding along who decide its important enough to put helmets on their kids, yet are happy enough not to wear one themselves.
. Convinced of that are you? What about the car that didn't see you or the pedestrian walking out in front of you? I think buffalobill was taking about the families that cycles along the roads - I am sure many older children can ride quite fast and also be involved in accidents.I am simply not going to fall off at the kind of speeds that I ride with my kids at
"amazed by the magical properties"
Not magic, it's called load spreading. Instead of a point impact fracturing your skull, it's absorbed into the styrene and distributes the energy over a larger area of your head. It does itself fracture under big loads, but by then it's done it's work.
helmtes mess ur hair up. freemod of choice=MAX
I got T-boned by someone driving a Land Rover. I wasn't wearing a helmet, I didn't hit my head.
Hmm well I guess you were lucky not to hit you head then - Period!I got T-boned by someone driving a Land Rover. I wasn't wearing a helmet, I didn't hit my head.
I think the polystyrene and the actual 'something on the head' works for a small range of potential injuries; that 12 to 15 mph tumble type of thing.
I think the problems begin when people start to view them as the bicycle equivalent of seatbelts, and assume accordingly that not having a helmet equals certain death.
I don't think that a cycle helmet can be the difference between walking away or ending up severely brain damaged.
If it were the case, we would see clear evidence that head injuries in cyclists have declined, and that evidence simply doesn't exist.
It's a very subtle, very complex problem, which is unfortunately presented as a black or white, helmet or death issue.
Making helmets compulsory will cause a drop in the number of cyclists, but the only thing that seems to improve cycling safety is having more bums on bikes....
"helmtes mess ur hair up. freemod of choice=MAX" 😀
Personally using a helmet offroad is a given - too many slow speed falls which could have ended in head injury to say otherwise. On the road I wear a lid too but mainly as I've fallen cornering a few times and was happy to have something on top to protect me if a curb had been in the way. If a car hits you then I'd doubt the lid would do much good - best to have lots of lights and ride defensively!
Convinced of that are you? What about the car that didn't see you or the pedestrian walking out in front of you?
Yes. Completely convinced. I don't live in town though, and wouldn't take young kids on to a dangerous road.
When I myself ride or drive in town I most certainly do look at pedestrians to figure out if they're going to step into the road - never ride in the edge of the road for that very reason, plus others.
A helmet is never going to be some sort of guaranteed head insurance. But given the fact I have to share the roads with a certain drivers who look less favourably on pedal power its worth it imo.
And I haven't worked out how to attach my light to my head without the aid of said helmet...
Making helmets compulsory will cause a drop in the number of cyclists, but the only thing that seems to improve cycling safety is having more bums on bikes....
That's it precisely. Helmets are to prevent minor injuries, not to save your life when a car hits you, or to allow drivers a get out of jail card if you weren't wearing one.
We are not talking about helmet or death are we here - its about helping to prevent injury - being hit by a car at 60mph will be fatal - helmet or not - being knocked of at 15-20mph by a car, pedestrian or just bad luck will result surely in less severe injuries on the whole - and thus it would be advisable to wear a helmet. also I don't think there is good statistically sound research out there about cycle injuries (especially those not reported) and the wearing of helmets period! Just like wether to wear seat belts - before it was compsulary no one really used them so not much data to study? I am on the fence with helmets but if they were made a legal requirement I would not have a problem wearing mine all the time as I do anyway!
If your point is that failure to wear a helmet is taking an unnecessary risk then surely you should avoid mountain biking all together?
I was just going to say that.
What is more dangerous:
* me riding to work this morning without a helmet; or
* someone getting rad air to the max dude while wearing a helmet?
Ban mountain biking, I say!
I'm pro-helmet but anti-compulsion. And this contributory negligence business is plain daft. If another driver hits me in my car, causing me injury, would a judge say "you should have been driving a volvo instead of a fiesta, it's your own fault"? I think not...
Speaking completely honestly, I would wear one all the time if made to.
The main reason I don't is because in the winter I hate all that 'how do I keep my ears warm?' faffing that helmets bring on; I'd rather just wear a hat. In summertime, I like to ride with the wind blowing through what's left of my hair.
I remain to be convinced of the need for a helmet, but I think it's a debate worth exploring, and one best done in a civilised, calm way, without all the 'helmets will break your neck' or 'your brains will run out of your nose' stuff.
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I admire this man's approach.
No helmet and wrong side of the road. Anarchist.
No helmet and wrong side of the road. Anarchist.
It's worse than that, he's rolled the wrong trouser leg up - clearly a Mason.
Its a motor scooter look its got an engine in the back - so def illegal as he's a motorcyclist without a helmet - report him quick 😉
brokeback mountain (biking)
i think everyone at radio 2 should wear helmets, not just cyclists...
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has anyone done that one yet?
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taxi!