[Closed] Dark side help - Swapping a road bike frame?

Swopping parts from a 2005 Halfrauds bike to a 2013 quite good bike is going to cause you one massive headache. Sell the Carrera or chuck it in the canal and buy a Btwin Triban 3 from Decathlon, which is an excellent aluminium modern entry-level road bike. If you're lucky you might even find a Triban 3 old model in red, which is a super looking bike and has a carbon fork.

Advice taken but may I ask why it will be a headache ? The bike has mavic wheels and shimano sora. (flightdeck?) igroupset these wont fit then ? Im genuinely intrested in the answer the bits on the bike dont look much different to the bikes I see in the shop.

Those SAB frames are a really tempting price!

Anyway, off the top of my head, bits that might not fit:

Headset (even with the same description)
Fork steerer length (should be OK moving to a smaller frame, but measure the headtube)
Fork dimensions - I don't think that length and rake will be very different, but I'd check anyway.
Bottom bracket (depends on shell width, threading and axle length)
Front mech band (depends on seat tube diameter)
Seatpost (see above)

You'll almost certainly need new cables, outers and bartape too. It all adds up.

How many gears on the Carrera and how much space for gears on the PX frame?

I think the carrera is 16 speed ( cant remember without looking and not at home ) 2 rings up front.

Cheers timb34 I hve new bar tape and inner cables already , The seatpost and front mech are the same sizes would use a new headset and bottom bracket so I suppose it depends whether the frame would work with current gears like globalti says.

Like I said im happy with the bike despite it not being a top brand its just a tad large

I would say definitely stick to your guns with the basic plan - the triban isn't gonna be oodles better than your bike - get a new frame that's the right size and upgrade while you're doing it! 8)

you've done your homework on the seatpost and front mech clamp so do just be careful on steerer length.

I would avoid that SAB frame though. carbon stays would be mucho tempting but I would avoid purely because of the 'integrated' headset. they're bad news. too much to go into, but if you're unaware do a google search. chris king has (have?) strong views and I wholeheartedly agree with them

Loads of bikes now have integrated headsets, especially road bikes.

Like anything if they're fitted properly and looked after/checked regularly then you shouldn't have any issues. You can wreck the frame if the bearing race moves about in the frame but tension the headset properly and maybe some stud lock on the mating surface between bearing race and frame bearing seat and you should be fine.

I just did a search and found a 2 year old post on here, and all it reported was all the other [u]positive[/u] experiences that people have had.

cheap. delicate. maintenance heavy. why risk your frame on the basis that it might be okay provided you maintain perfect adjustment 100% of the time. and what happens when you find that your first replacement bearing is at the opposite end of the tolerance range to your original? if you have to ream out your head tube, how do you replace that material when the second replacement matches the original? gonna keep filling it with studlock?

don't you wonder why they haven't taken off with mtbs?

I'm with Chris.

Cheers for the reply's so a SAB frame would be a decent upgrade? Seen a Graham Weigh budget frame but it does not look as nice.

Just spotted the posts about internal headsets maybe look at an alternative frame fine head set adjustments and carefull is not me 🙂

dannybee - Reading such BAD advice being given to you on your frame swap.
The Sab frame you have picked is a decent frame at a very good price. Its a shame PX are selling it low - only on selected sizes. But first and foremost - make sure it will fit. The 54cm top-tube would be for somebody of about imho 169cm-174cm (but also depends on body proportions).
Modern road bikes all have integrated headsets. Yes there are a few variations in bearing sizes but its not rocket science and I'm sure PX can point you in the right direction. There is [b]nothing [/b]wrong with integrated headsets. They give cleaner lines and offer a lower stack height - allowing the bars to drop lower. And its simply a case of dropping the bearings in place - no cup installation is necessary.
Does the Vanquish have a carbon fork? And although it may fit - since you're going from 58cm to 52cm (headtube on the SAB is 13cm) - its an alloy fork - a cheap carbon fork from ebay as an upgrade probably won't go amiss.
If seat-post size is the same and if you're lucky to be using a braze-on front-mech (or it could be the same size band)... everything should just transfer over.
Take the opportunity to renew the cables. Job done.

I'm thinking integrated headsets aren't used in MTB due to the stresses around the head tube. Impacts would be transferred thru to the head-tube rather than the head-set cups.

A large proportion of road bike have integrated headsets. I've been using them for years on a variety of bikes and have never had any problems. So I wouldn't let that put you off.

In addition to the bits mentioned by timb34, you may also need a new stem as the top tube length will be different to your current bike.

I'm half way through building up a SAB Classico. I got a bit delayed as the bottom bracket is quoted on the PX site as being BSA. But it's actually italian threaded. Hopefully my LBS will give me a refund on the BSA bottom bracket that I shelled (excuse the pun) out for.

The frame comes with a rear mech hanger. The mech hanger is custom to the frame and so may be of concern, as you probably won't get another one if you break or bend it. But then you're much less likely to break a mech hanger on a road bike then on a mountain bike.

The frame does not come with a BB gear cable guide or barrel adjusters; which may not be a problem as you can transfer these across from your current bike. But these bits only cost a few quid anyway.

And finally, you may need to take the frame to your LBS to get the BB shell chased and faced, and also to fit the BB cups (assuming you don't have BB wrench). Having said that, I didn't need to have mine chased and faced. The BB cups fitted perfectly (one I'd got the right size).

If you've never built up a bike before, it may be a bit daunting. But it's very satisfying and well worth it. However, you may turn into a weight weenie, and be forever upgrading bits to make the bike lighter, stiffer, and more responsive. It's a slippery slope!

dannybee - hate to be a pedant but this may turn out important: integrated headset is different to internal. internal = inset bearing cups. integrated = no cups at all. both = 'clean lines and zero stack height'. internal good. integrated bad. once you have a headset installed with cartridge bearings, a bearing swap will always only require the bearings popping out and dropping in.

I'm thinking integrated headsets aren't used in MTB due to the stresses around the head tube. Impacts would be transferred thru to the head-tube rather than the head-set cups

exactly, mudsux. hope you don't get many potholes where you live!

I'm sure Chris King is correct that there is a theoretical risk of damage/wear to the headtube with integrated headsets. But if it was happening that often, then manufacturers would certainly not be designing and selling frames with them. I must admit to spending a little too much time on cycling forums, and I don't hear many people complaining about the problem. And where problems occur people certainly complain.

Don't lose site of the fact that this is a £99 frame. What's the worst that can happen 😕

an annoying persistant creaking noise that simply won't go away.

or is that just me? 🙄

seriously, the reason that manufacturers persist is that they are getting away with this cost-cutting measure. and that many people don't use their bikes enough for it to become an issue. or thay change their bikes with the seasons.

but I take your point. for £99 with carbon stays its worth a punt just to see if they work.

The whole thing isn't really any different to swapping an MTB frame. Check your parts, work out whats wrong/missing and have at it. I'd agree tho, for 99 quid, worth a punt as a 58 when you need a 52 is not going to make it such a fun experience.

I've just swapped out my circa 2007 58cm Ribble frame for a 54cm Dolan frame and transferred all the parts no problem.

Integrated headset on old and new frames.

Changed the headset once in six years. It's used in all weather conditions as a commuter. Don't let an integrated headset put you off.

As for transferring your parts - check seatpost and front mech diameters. Expect to need a different headset for the new frame - but the joy of integrated headsets is no need to press them in. You can just push them in by hand.

Renew the cables if you can but if not just chuck your old ones on.

Cheers for all the advice people 😀

Hopefully this will be a cost effective way of building a entry level bike as i said earlier i like the old carrera even riding it with the massive frame is fun just not very comfy!

One thing - 58cm to 52cm is quite a big change. What was the problem with the old frame? I went 58 to 54 - on my inseam I should be a 56 (although I have long legs and a short torso so the shorter top tube of the 54 is better for my overall reach). Have you checked the geometry of the new frame to make sure you're not just buying yourself a different set of problems?

I bought the old one because it was cheap plan was to tidy it up and sell it on but 50 miles in i have decided i like road bikes. The old one is far too big (i never intended to ride it) i can just stand over it and with the seat set there is only about 2" of seat post showing and riding on the hoods I'm stretched out really far forward.

I'm 5' 8" so im going by the recommended size and reading a bit on forums the 54 top tube should be o.k?

I'm 6'1" and generally ride with an effective top tube length of 57cm, and a 11cm stem. For the SAB Classico, the 58 has a 57.5cm top tube. But I worked out from the geometry and head tube length that it would not be enough drop between the saddle and handlebars as I like a racy geometry. So I went for the 55, which has a 55cm top tube, paired with 13cm stem.

BTW, I'm from mountain stock so have short legs (32") and a long torso, hence the racy geometry.

At 5ft 8in a 54cm top-tube sounds OK.

Integrated headsets are de facto for 99% of road bikes.
And road bikes can do the [i]odd[/i] pot-hole.
All the road bikes used on the classics I've seen have integrated headsets. And the cobbles can really bash a road bike. So road bikes can take a "fair" pounding.

Yep, I thought the majority of top road bikes use integrated headsets nowadays.

And reading the packaging of the last tube of studlock I bought and I'm sure it said it could fill gaps of up to 1.5mm. Thats what I used on a creaking headset on my Trek 1.5 and it cured it for good. No issues with the integrated headset on my old Titus FTMc either.

So for £99 you're getting nothing less than a headset design you'd get on frame costing hundreds/thousands more.

There are so many worse examples of bad engineering/cost cutting on bikes than integrated headsets.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/integrated-headset-machining

tell it to this guy

mtbtomo - syphilis is worse than herpes but you still don't want herpes, do you?

Getting there - just got to fit the front mech, chain, STI shifters, cables, bar tape, and pedals.

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Luckily I had loads of spares - including a mix of ultegra 5700 and 6700 components. So all I've had to fork out for - in addition to ther frame of course - is bars, bar tape, stem, headset, BB cups, cable set, and pedals.

Should be giving it a bit of a thrashing at the weekend, so will report back on how it rides.

Looks great 😀

What headset did you use?

FSA Orbit CE Headset - cheapest I could find at £19.99.

Just doing the cableing now. Hate doing cableing - I always cut the outers either too long or too short 🙁

That looks really good liking the colour,tempted to get one myself even though I don't need a new frame.
Regards integrated headsets I'm sure any issues must be related more to MTBs than roadbikes.
I have a older Giant Bowery that has a hidden headset(don't know if its integrated or internal,never looked) either way its never been touched and its still smooth as.

I hate it when companies don't discount the whole range of sizes, that's CRC tactics that is

Crikey, that orange SAB looks amazing... I had a look at the website but couldn't see that frame on there. I was tempted to buy one myself!

Sometimes it is a good idea to buy a buy from last year in a freakish size - very small or extra large - just for the components. I have done this several times and it always works out well.

For example, Viking were selling off their Vittoria 105 equipped bikes for £475 last year - the frame was made from lead but the components on it weren't that bad.

Worth considering...

If anyone's interested - here's the finished bike.

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I put it together on the cheap with the idea of shipping it out to my parents place in Spain. They keep saying I should visit more, and with a bike out there I certainly will.

SAB Classico frame = £99 (new)
3T Ergonova Pro handlebars = £56
3T ARX Pro Stem = £32
Jagwire cable set = £20
Handlebar Tape = £10
Ritchie Carbon set post = £0 (donated by a pal)
Shimano Ultegra BB Cups = £15
FSA Orbit CE Headset = £20
Everything else = from my extensive parts bin
TOTAL = [u]£252[/u]

Weighs in 17 lbs with the wheels shown. 16.5 lbs with lighter wheels - RS80s.

I've only taken it for 1 ride, so the jury's still out. My initial impression is that it feels a lot softer than I was expecting. My Sunday best bike has a Ti frame, and so I was expecting the aluminium SAB coupled with 50s to be harsh. But quite the opposite. But then the forks are full carbon and are on the soft side, and the chainstays are carbon. I need to ride the bike more to give a full review. A trip to the Surrey Hills is in order.

that's lovely. Enjoy the hills and get back to us.

Looks very nice
😀

8)

Congrats! We were wrong! It looks like a nice bike but as somebody else wrote, you're on the slippery slope now to upgrading....

Oh and that saddle needs moving forward an inch or more and flattening or even lifting by a couple of degrees at the nose.

hopefully endurancenut can respond to this. Bought the same fr\me recently but don't have a cable guide that fits under the bottom bracket. Did you have any issues with this? Particularly the routing throught the small hole for the front derailleur. Any chance you could show a picture of the underside of your machine?