This is more a moan than anything else.
I've never used a cycle scheme before, various reasons, affordability at the time, employers having caps of say £1000, not seeing anything within budget that I actually wanted.
Finally now in a position with a stable job and finding a good deal on a discounted trail bike (carbon, 120mm f&r) which I can afford (and want to pay) the monthly payments for. This would be 100% a treat for me rather than an essential for commuting or anything like that.
Before getting too excited I checked the shop's small print on the cycle to work schemes that they're happy to accept it on sale bikes etc. as I've read that some don't. Pauls Cycles for instance have a helpful guide which states under what circumstance they may add a surcharge (Cyclescheme is 0%), so far so good.
If your employer offers any of the schemes below, then you can get your new bike and kit from XXXX shop. Our Approved Used, Ex-Demo, Ex-Display, and Discounted bikes are also available on cycle scheme. please get in touch for more information-call.....
Apply for voucher for the value of the bike, work approve, code arrives at the end of last week and I excitedly log in last night and try to buy the bike via bike shops webshop - all goes smoothly, enter codes, thing goes green, click to pay and then get a error message, hum.
After a call to the shop they look into the website issue, they come back to me to say that because the bike is too discounted and that Cyclescheme take a cut, it wouldn't be worth selling it to me for £2449.00.
The sting was really when the guy confidently told me to "just" go back and get a new voucher for £250 extra and then they would sell me the bike. The £250 would apparently cover the Cyclescheme cost which would be added to price above what it's advertised for!
Having already gone through the process of getting a voucher approved through work, the chance of changes to the scheme after the budget on Thursday and not really wanting to increase the monthly amount that I want to pay, I really can not be bothered now. Sure it's a good bike but I get a better saving by not buying it. But the presumption that I can just stump up another £250 just really irritated me.
Is this a voucher from cyclescheme.co.uk ? I have never had a problem with shops with this particular scheme. I have heard on occasion that they can be problems with other ones
Is this a voucher from cyclescheme.co.uk ? I have never had a problem with shops with this particular scheme. I have heard on occasion that they can be problems with other ones
Yep, Cyclescheme voucher, definitely odd as others specifically don't charge a surcharge for Cyclescheme
Call their bluff, call them and say you can't get the voucher increased so it's that or nothing.
Call their bluff, call them and say you can't get the voucher increased so it's that or nothing.
I did say that, the voucher is here good to go, and it's as much as I'm willing/able to spend, he wasn't at all sympathetic, especially suggesting £250 extra isn't a big deal which it is to me unfortunately.
I've seen a few shops that charge extra for sale bikes, it's usually pretty clear on the website. If it doesn't say on the product page that there will be a surcharge I'd tell them to jog on.
I'm not unsympathetic but if the shop feels they can get £2449 for it without having to give Cyclescheme £250 then that's their prerogative.
How discounted is the bike? If the cyclescheme charge means they will be selling it at a loss to you, it’s hardly surprising if they are willing to lose that sale.
Oh, and name and shame.
What make/model/year/size is the bike?
Have you checked if any other shops have it for the same price or would price match? Obviously they'd need to offer Cyclescheme too but there's not many who don't.
I'm struggling to get to get to excited in your favour.
1. It's been done to death....but obviously you know you, the shop and everyone on the forum knows you are not using the scheme for its intended purpose. It's not worth going over again, but you know what you are doing. You're going to be signing a bit of paper that says you'll be using it more that 50% of the time for cycling to work or however it's worded. You might also be one of the last if rumours of a cap or cancelling in the budget are true.
2. If it's a heavily discounted toy bike already by the time they pay the 10% cut to the provider they might actually be making a loss. You make a tidy saving, the scheme get £250 for a tiny bit of admin and they make an actual loss to keep you all happy - not quite right, is it?
3. This is actually pretty normal. Bird do it (or did it) as has been discussed before. But lets face it, anyone buying a bike from Bird knows they are working a system for a toy, and Bird know they are working a system for a toy.
Yes - they should probably make it clearer, that is a fair complaint. But them actually doing it, not so much.
Once the voucher is issued, that's it. You can't "just" go back and get one for a different value, it's already gone through all your employer's payroll.
I'm assuming the shop doesn't actually have to sell you anything - they can refuse the sale but they can't ask you for more money.
Unfortunately they’re not obliged to sell it to you if they’re not making money on it.
How discounted is the bike? If the cyclescheme charge means they will be selling it at a loss to you, it’s hardly surprising if they are willing to lose that sale.
If the shop has discounted it, that's one thing, but if they've bought discounted stock from the distributor then their have retained their margin percentage and are looking to make a few extra quid.
If the shop has discounted it, that's one thing, but if they've bought discounted stock from the distributor then their have retained their margin percentage and are looking to make a few extra quid.
Not necessarily true. When I did a pert time job in a bike and windsurf shop (admittedly a while back) the usual markup was 30% on bikes and boards. But the shop would often buy up all the distributor had left towards the end of the season at a hefty discount - and normally sold it on at the discounted price plus a much smaller markup - often 10%. Reasoning was to create a national demand/interest for a local shop and get it in and out on a quick turnaround.
Once the voucher is issued, that's it. You can't "just" go back and get one for a different value, it's already gone through all your employer's payroll.
Aye, and if it's anything like our scheme, (different supplier) you can't get a refund on your voucher, you're paying for it, spent or not!
I definitely agree that they need to make money, they need to be a lot clearer with their terms of sales which is the main point here. Nothing in the T&C's to say they won't proceed with a sale and it's annoying that the webshop takes you all the way to completing the purchase before it throws an error.
There was never any denial from my point that the bike is anything more than a nice to have since the price was right.
And as said from the start this is just a moan about a first world problem, I'll wait for a slightly bigger issue before I start getting lawyered up.
Isn't charging more explicitly against the cyclescheme retailer t&c's?
I just had a very frank conversation with our LBS when we bought mrs_oab's ehybrid. They were clear what the costs to them were with me and the importer. We worked out a price that was £90 above shop floor discounted price, but split c2w scheme cost so I paid more but the LBS and importer while taking a small drop in profit, still actually made profit.
It didn't seem unreasonable at all.
a good deal on a discounted trail bike
This is the key for me, the bike is discounted already.
I was in exactly the same position as you last year. I also got a good deal on a discounted sale bike and willingly paid around £250 to cover the scheme admin fee. The shop needs to make money, I was still getting a massive saving over RRP and everyone was winning (apart from HMRC).
Everyone needs to earn a living and we all want bike shops to succeed. They are being reasonable, but perhaps they could have communicated it better.
apart from HMRC
You paid them 20% of the ticket price, and 20% of the additional payment.
Did you?
This is key. If you organise a voucher, without first checking with and securing your bike with the retailer, what are you going to do with the voucher if they’ve sold the bike once the voucher is ready? Or if the price of the bike goes up? Or if they can’t offer you the bike using a voucher at the reduced price you’ve seen?
Before getting too excited I checked the shop's small print on the cycle to work schemes that they're happy to accept it on sale bikes etc. as I've read that some don't
If this is the retailer I think it is, then the cycle scheme info page on their site lists some specific parts of the site where they don't accept cycle2work vouchers. The On Sale part is one of them.
I guess its the site is a bit contradictory, but I don't really see an issue with them charging a 10% admin fee on a massively discounted bike.
As above
Our Approved Used, Ex-Demo, Ex-Display, and Discounted bikes are also available on cycle scheme. please get in touch for more information-call.....
Bike is available on the scheme, when you called they would have explained the reason for the charge and you would have made your decision based on that.
I had a Boardman e hybrid on C2W (for actually cycling to work on) and I called Halfords before sorting the voucher. I was all set to get it at RRP but he told me to wait a couple of weeks as he knew the 30% discount was around the corner.
I'd never not call before doing something like this 🤷♂️
There’s definitely a lot of wise after the event stuff here, as mentioned this is the first go at bike to work stuff. A busy life and doing what I thought was sufficient to check via the retailers website which is clear that cyclescheme vouchers are accepted and there’s absolutely no mention additional levies for discounted bikes.
If the shop either do 0% finance or take credit cards then asking for 10% of the bike value off you is cheeky.
Cyclescheme commission is 8.3% on the first £3k of a transaction. When companies do 0% finance they will pay a fee that, while not quite as high is still not insignificant (and is not limited like cycle scheme). Depending on the merchant even card fees can be up to 4% and interest bearing finance can attract a fee too.
When I was discussing cyclescheme with a retailer they were quite open about the various costs of all finance options and while cycle scheme is the most expensive, they take that into account with their pricing.
I said on another thread that, when working in a bike shop, C2W was barely sustainable. The scheme providers took 10-15% of the price, then you had stocking fees, build/PDI and a first service to complete. When we were selling bikes at £1,000 or less then we were trying to make up anything we could on sales of accessories and clothing and hopes of repeat sales.
Where it told you to contact them.
If you reread a little more carefully, that's quoted from Paul's - a different retailer as an example of a retailer that explains their situation prior to purchase....unlike the OP's chosen retailer that didn't.
Where it told you to contact them.
If you reread a little more carefully, that's quoted from Paul's - a different retailer as an example of a retailer that explains their situation prior to purchase....unlike the OP's chosen retailer that didn't.
If your employer offers any of the schemes below, then you can get your new bike and kit from XXXX shop. Our Approved Used, Ex-Demo, Ex-Display, and Discounted bikes are also available on cycle scheme. please get in touch for more information-call.....
if that was Paul’s, why would the name of the shop be X’d out?
I xxx’ed the shop out from their specific bike to work wording for no other reason than it’s a general discussion and to get some opinions, not to flame the specific retailer.
Did I contact them, no, I didn’t need any more info beyond their clear statement. I’ve bought plenty of off the peg bikes online without the need to have a conversation, they post it, I’m happy to forego the first service etc.. I’ve also bought custom bikes which are totally worth the time with the shop.
Oh I know, just making sure Convert knows my reading skills are up to their high standard.
I had thought it was possible to get a new voucher (which would cost you approx £13 a month more) as you could cancel within 14 days, but that might be the time between applying and actually getting it. Get a credit card with a 0% offer and put the additional on that?
Oh I know, just making sure Convert knows my reading skills are up to their high standard.
I had thought it was possible to get a new voucher (which would cost you approx £13 a month more) as you could cancel within 14 days, but that might be the time between applying and actually getting it. Get a credit card with a 0% offer and put the additional on that?
Thats definitely a good suggestion but as far as I can see you can’t personally top up the value of the voucher and cancelling one and then reapplying is a ball-ache. It’s the tax saving that swung it versus doing it on a 0% card. I may still get a new voucher for a bit more, but probably wouldn’t want to put any money through the till of these guys though.
You can’t top up the voucher, but I’m sure they’d let you buy an inner tube for £255 😉
Isn't charging more explicitly against the cyclescheme retailer t&c's?
Yes... But similarly, the shop is well within their rights to refuse to sell you the bike if they choose to, which they might well do if selling it on a CycleScheme voucher means they're actually making a loss on the bike...
This is where good communication prior to making your final purchase decision and how it is being paid for with the retailer, comes in handy...
For avoidance of doubt, CycleScheme (like many others) charge the retailer 10% for the administration of the scheme... Some charge more (Halfords is 15% I think, there are others around 12.5%), many are 10%, then there's the shops' new favourite "Green Commute Initiative" that only charge 5% which is why they're all over it right now...
Of course, there's nothing to stop any employer administering the scheme themselves, saving any commission payable to a 3rd party, except for time... Which is of course why nobody except the odd self employed person administers it themselves, because everyone is busy and time is money!
If the shop either do 0% finance or take credit cards then asking for 10% of the bike value off you is cheeky.
Cyclescheme commission is 8.3% on the first £3k of a transaction. When companies do 0% finance they will pay a fee that, while not quite as high is still not insignificant (and is not limited like cycle scheme). Depending on the merchant even card fees can be up to 4% and interest bearing finance can attract a fee too.
When I was discussing cyclescheme with a retailer they were quite open about the various costs of all finance options and while cycle scheme is the most expensive, they take that into account with their pricing.
Cyclescheme charge 8.3% PLUS VAT... Which is 10%...
0% finance from V12 or the like is typically around 7.5% for 12 months, 12.5% for 24 months, 17.5% for 36 months... Credit card transaction fees are usually below 2% unless you've got a terrible deal on a card machine (even SumUp is less than this with no contract!)... And the individual can usually get 12-24 months interest free purchases on a 0% credit card with a good credit rating...
Don't go into a bike shop expecting to buy the clearance bikes with 30%+ off on finance or CycleScheme without paying a premium to do so basically... The margins have been eroded away already, and you will be dealt with politely but not positively I would suggest. Remember that bike shops NEED to make a profit, otherwise they go out of business... And a bike industry without bike shops is not a good place to be!
‘This would be 100% a treat for me rather than an essential for commuting or anything like that.’
already pointed out but the C2W scheme isn’t for getting yourself a treat on the cheap.
And you can’t really complain about the bike shop when you’re bending the rules. Bike shops are in business to make money, they’re not going to sell a bike at a loss.
You have 14 days after your order has been approved to cancel you voucher
Yes... But similarly, the shop is well within their rights to refuse to sell you the bike if they choose to, which they might well do if selling it on a CycleScheme voucher means they're actually making a loss on the bike...
I was just stating the rules - I wasn't making a judgement call on the shop (but I think refusal to sell it to you because CycleScheme is also against the rules).
I do think people are being a little harsh to the OP though. I'm not saying the shop's attitude is unreasonable, but I do think it's reasonable to expect that things operate as written.
I do think it's reasonable to expect that things operate as written.
Get in touch with us if you want to buy a discounted bike on cyclescheme?
Actually, the consumer faq only says no surcharges on RRP - https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/covid-19/employee-covid-19-cyle-to-work-hub/staying-safe-when-bike-shopping
That's quite different to the other link, which suggested the agreement was no surcharges on any sale, and no withholding availability.
If people got as upset about real issues in the world as they did about cycle scheme maybe we'd fix something! Cyclescheme chat is a massive case of "Distract the plebs" 😂
A bike forum where only real, world important, issues were discussed would be shit, though.