[Closed] cwmcarn. any good?

When both trails are open its well worth a visit , check on thier web page for closures and condition updates.

I haven't been there for a couple of months but only one of the Xc trails was open (the newer one). I enjoyed it and would go back. A couple of laps was enough to tire me out.

It's a wreck. The old xc was the best but trashed due to ongoing tree felling because of disease. The original DH is out of action also, at least for the uplift. The new DH I think is open and uplift working but though I've not done it I never hear great things about it. The only thing that's any good is the new xc (Cafall), though I'm not keen on it myself. It's got the same or more amount of killer climbing but the rest is a bit meh. The original xc had a lovely long descent.

Personally I wouldn't make a big trip just for Cwmcarn now. If I was in the area with a day or half day spare then maybe.

Once the felling is finished (which may be a while) yes
Cafall is great but the old Twrch trail is 70%? closed at the moment

I think the new Cafall trail is great, and prefer it to the Twrch. Well worth a trip IMO, and it's holding up well considering the weather.

Cafall far tamer than twrch. It's a blue in all but name (I think it's only red graded due to being 24km).

I've always loved Cwmcarn,I had a great days riding there in November -2 laps of Cafell and a bike a hike plus climb up to do the final descent of the Twrch was enough to satisfy me .There is also lots and lots of 'off piste' riding all around the area so if you run out of things to do there your doing something wrong. 🙂

I like the Cafall Trail, it's got a lot of decent descents (enough to tire most people I've spoken to), the climb is a bit of a slog but then I'm just not a fan of climbing.

We go quite often and have sussed out a few short cuts to get to the top.

I actually prefer it to the old trail which had a technical climb that's pretty had to complete without dabbing but the descent seemed very short and nowhere near as much fun as the newer trail.

The DH tracks were all right but lacked variety, it's a shame they never built a few more trails/tracks there as it's got a decent amount of height for it.

I actually prefer it to the old trail which had a technical climb that's pretty had to complete without dabbing

descent seemed very short and nowhere near as much fun as the newer trail.

Cafall far tamer than twrch. It's a blue in all but name (I think it's only red graded due to being 24km).

I don't agree with that: it's far easier to go fast on the Twrch descent because it's less technical (must admit it's ages since I've ridden it though, may have misremembered)

Not missing a huge amount with the old trail being closed, it had a good first climb and traverse along the top ridge but the final descent is very dull, essentially just a long rocky straight line. It did feel a bit more natural and not being surfaced like the new track is a bonus.

Popped down at the weekend, rode the new loop in full then did a few climbs back up the fire road (including a some of the more enjoyable sections of the loop) up to the newer Pedalhounds dh track which was entertaining enough - nice that you can do full runs without stopping for gates/stiles like the Cafall descent.

Enough there to keep you entertained though some much better riding in the area if you can find someone to show you.

it's far easier to go fast on the Twrch descent because it's less technical

Couldn't disagree more. Cafall is swoopy, tame trail. Beginner stuff compared with Twrch. Jeez, about a 3rd of the last (and only notable) descent is fire road!

I think you could not be more wrong. Jamesfts is right: with Twrch, the descent is simply a case of holding on and descending in a straight line, with the enjoyment coming from your speed. No technical ability is required. In contrast, Cafall twists and turns down through the trees, and has some rocky exposed sections. There was very little fireroad (only short links) which makes me wonder if we were riding the same thing.

Cafall is swoopy, tame trail. Beginner stuff compared with Twrch

Both beginner friendly though the Cafall is mostly surfaced where as the Twrch (top section at least) is more rocky - though neither are remotely tech.

The Twrch unfortunately lacks anything resembling a corner until you reach the last section and then it's 2 berms and a couple of chicanes. Not sure about the fire road you mention but at least the Cafall needs a bit of consentration (and the odd turn of your bars!) to get down quickly.

You can remain seated through pretty much all of cafall. It's a smooth blue trail. Anything more than a hardtail is over egging it.

You can remain seated through pretty much all of cafall. It's a smooth blue trail. Anything more than a hardtail is over egging it.

Each to their own. Both are suitable for beginners (I took two novices there on Sunday) but as jamesfts notes, at least with Cafall you have to turn into some corners, rather than just sitting down and going in a straight line. Are you sure you did the proper Cafall descent - I didn't see any fireroad on it?

Yes, the tiny little steeper bit, then fireroad, then final descent (which requires a bit of climbing.....)
The whole trail felt badly thought out and cheaply built. I don't like the new smooth surfaces at all, especially in south wales where there is the material to build great trails literally everywhere. The new Penhydd left me feeling similarly disappointed.

You can remain seated through pretty much all of cafall. It's a smooth blue trail. Anything more than a hardtail is over egging it.

You can, though you'd be doing it wrong... and quite slowly I'd imagine.

Having ridden a hardtail, 150 and 165 trail bikes down there the ht is indeed the most fun, though not the fastest way to the bottom.

and quite slowly I'd imagine.

Yes, the tiny little steeper bit, then fireroad, then final descent (which requires a bit of climbing.....)

There were some tiny fireroad sections to link the trail together (1/3 descending - I don't think so!), and the climb makes for a longer descent.

The whole trail felt badly thought out and cheaply built

Wouldn't go as far as god 😉

Just pointing out there may be faster ways to get down a trail than sitting down top top bottom.

I didn't say I did, I said you could.

it wouldn't have held up so well to this extremely wet winter

Just pointing out there may be faster ways to get down a trail than sitting down top top bottom.

I thought my short-travel FS was just about perfect - good for the climbs and not much slower than bigger rigs on the descents. I am a riding god, though. 😉

Did you see it last year? It was a bath!

I rode it last Sunday, after the wettest December on record. The trail was in fantastic condition. When did you last ride it?

The problem isn't the size of the climb, the problem is that it's featureless and boring, like most of the trail is.

Err no. Featureless and boring is the fireroad climbing that blights so many trail centres. This one twists and turns up through the trees. Much better.

I rode it in the summer and haven't been since. Last year I was going to Cwmcarn a couple of times a month at least (it's convenient for me).
I'd just as sooner go to ashton court as ride cafall and save some time and a bridge toll and they are quite similar in terms of tech and feel.

What is the next step down from riding God, riding Saint?

**If we're playing silly buggers editing...

if you have ridden a 165mm bike down cafell, I very much doubt you are.

FYI there is other riding on those hills (Machen/Wiley etc) where a hardtail maybe isn't the right tool for the job but taking a different bike for each part of the ride may be seen as a bit ott.

What is the next step down from riding God, riding Saint?

I'd just as sooner go to ashton court as ride cafall and save some time and a bridge toll and they are quite similar in terms of tech and feel.

It took about two hours to ride Cafall and it has long climbs and descents. Ashton Court is mostly flat, can be ridden on a CX bike, and takes 30 minutes. They're not remotely comparable, other than they're both in the woods.

Riding fairy?

Sounds good to me! 🙂

There are no long descents at cafall!
AC and Cafall are both pedally smooth woodsy meanders.

There are no long descents at cafall!

The gradient profile says you're wrong.

AC and Cafall are both pedally smooth woodsy meanders.

AC is. Cafall isn't.

Of course, if your idea of descending is to sit down and go in a straight line, I can see why you prefer Twrch.

If you ever go to BPW ransos; stick to the blues mate.

If you ever go to BPW ransos; stick to the blues mate.

*Swoon*.

😛

If you ever go to BPW

Now don't get me started on that bloody place!

I thought the Cafall was pretty good and I enjoyed it. Not especially technical, but good. A bit confusing because the pdf trail map says 24km but it is actually 14km, and climbing more like 500m not 795m (according to mine anyway). I think I prefer the variety of the Cafall to the Twrch. I think it's a bit much to call it a smooth woodsy meander/blue though.

Really like Cafall, decent workout and a good descent. Rides well on a 29er HT, and I'd imagine it would be a little more fun on the downs with a FS. Looking forward to my next time down that way tbh.
BJ

I was dissapointed by Cafall. I liked the descents but they only lasted a few seconds then it was through yet another gate and a short climb to the next one.
I'd rather spend ages doing a big climb then drop the saddle and enter a world of flow and fun for as long as possible.
That's why I prefer BPW 😈

Twrch is a rubbish trail. All the descents bar the last bit loose too much heigh quickly with no real challenge.

The only time i'd ride Twrch is to do it backwards in the night. Now that is good.

I wonder how many people commenting how good/bad it is on here that actually ride it regularly? Cafall has changed loads since it opened with some sections feeling really natural.

I wonder how many people commenting how good/bad it is on here that actually ride it regularly?

I wonder how many people commenting how good/bad it is on here that actually ride it regularly?

Why would I? I don't like it!

Cafall has changed loads since it opened

Cafall far tamer than twrch. It's a blue in all but name (I think it's only red graded due to being 24km).

Eh?

I wonder how many people commenting how good/bad it is on here that actually ride it regularly? Cafall has changed loads since it opened with some sections feeling really natural.

Rode it late summer last year with a friend who rode it shortly after opening. After being intitially disappointed he was amazed at how much it had improved now it'd 'settled in'.

Comparing cafall to Ashton court is a joke right? Ashton court is my local ride, and I've ridden cafall a fair amount since its opened, the 2 are simply not comparable.

I've ridden it on my soul and on a 150mm trail bike and whilst the soul is fun the rail bike is better suited for my riding.

My only gripe with cafall is the number of gates you have to stop for!

the 2 are simply not comparable.

I've ridden it on my soul and on a 150mm trail bike and whilst the soul is fun the rail bike is better suited for my riding.

Watch out - 15mm more travel than that and you'll be getting called a mincer 😉

All a bit marmite then 😀

Cwmcarn was looking good with everything open. Two XC trails you could spend the day doing and/or mix it up with some DH, or uplift most the day and spend some time on the XCs.

A mix of everything and an okay café for lunch, so nice day out. Only lacking the old freeride area which was fun before Twrch.

With only Cafall and Pedalhounds, it's just not worth it.

Off piste of course would be fine, but I just don't know any of it. I'd need locals to show me the stuff.

There isn't much between them in terms of difficulty.

You appear to be in a minority of one on this issue.

So? My opinion is as valid as anyones. Nobody said you have to like it and nobody cares if you don't.

Everyone loves a good internet disagreement don' they? Oh and I love a "Cafall isn't overly technical" statement, it certaiblty gives me the impression that the poster is a heady mix of Brendog, James Bond and Chuck Norris.

Anyway, I find it quite tricky in parts, not so much I dislike it, but it has a lot of featres that simply don't exist on other Trail Centre trails in South Wales, namely mud, roots, drops and rocks, which I enjoyed - I can understand why some people don't like it, some of my riding buddies don't either - they say the descents aren't worth the climbs. Some of the climbs are steep and some of the swtichbacks tight which adds to the leg burn - I would say it's got the steepest climbs in any South Wales Trail Centre, bar perhaps the Raven at Brechfa (which is technically West Wales, but when it comes to these things people tend to split Wales in two and go North/South).

You can mitigate the whole climb v descent thing with a bit of local knowledge - you can skip the first climb after the ranger station by following a longer, but quicker and easier fire road up before rejoinng at Quadzilla and a lot of people skip the last descent on Cafall, pedal back up the Forrest Drive Road backwards for a bit (don't worry, it's closed at the moment) through some tape which we assume was put there to show the way, up a bit of fire road, past the road drop on the original DH (whihc is also closed) and down the final descent of the Twrch - which is short, (56secs on Strava if you're me) but simply sublime taken at full speed.

The Twrch however is sadly, simply not riding at the moment, it's mostly closed and the bits that are open are under ridden and unmaintained so seem to be returning to nature - if you like your trails "naturally" man made rather than "unnaturally" man made it might be more your thing, but it does mean a slower paced ride and without the speed it's not as fun - for me anyway. Again with local knowledge you can make a decent ride of it, but it's very difficult to say in words which way to go.

mud, roots, drops and rocks

it has a lot of featres that simply don't exist on other Trail Centre trails in South Wales

So? My opinion is as valid as anyones. Nobody said you have to like it and nobody cares if you don't.

[img] [/img]

😛

OP - if it were me travelling from the Isle of Wight to ride in south Wales tomorrow I would personally sit in the car for another hour or so and head toward Afan.

In my humble opinion the Cafall is fun, but not worth a massive effort to get to given what else is reasonably local. It's definitely worth heading to on the way back from BPW or Afan, but unless you're in the area I wouldn't bother.

However, once the Twrch is open again I'll definitely consider it a daytrip venue.

I would say it's got the steepest climbs in any South Wales Trail Centre, bar perhaps the Raven at Brechfa

Ah, Raven... now there is truly an example of the descents not being worth the climbing 😛

That's not to say the descents are rubbish, some bits are really good, but the amount of utterly tedious climbs for 10 seconds of trail, then tedious climb, repeat, repeat, and then chuck in a descent on a bloody fireroad!... makes it really not worth it.

But climb masochists love it. If it was climbing like Twrch was, Whites Level climb or even Cafall, then I'd understand. Raven's climbs are just tedious and dull and too much of them.

Blimey it's all kicked off in here since this morning .I see the Twrch and Cafall as the same trail now really and the variety of different riding and singletrack they both offer always add up to a great and satisfying time for me.I've always had a soft spot for it,it's like an old reliable mate that's always there for you if things turn bad or don't go to plan and will wave you home back over the bridge with a smile.

Wrecker when was the last time you rode it? It definitely has rocks and drops on some descents.

Fire road up to rapist tent ftw. Then when you do the loop to forest drive, back up the fire road to the shortcut to pedalhounds DH, do that then over to last Twrch descent is one of the best couple hours of fun you'll have at a trail centre imo.

BTW they have now removed almost all the gates from Cafall and it rides much better for it. Think there are only a couple now on the main fireroad crossings. As an XC route I reckon it is fantastic, combining good quality climbs with fast and interesting descents which cannot just be "ridden flat out".

steepest climbs in any South Wales Trail Centre

Blaengarw black - a genius trail that barely anyone bothers with

either wrecker needs to go ride it again, or s/he's the riding god...

I've ridden it with beginner mates, handy riders (local level enduro podiemists) and sponsored riders. If wrecker thinks there's nothing to jump/drop off and it's a simple, straight run, then he/she's missing something... everyone i've ridden it with has come back grinning.

off the top of my head i can think of a number of tight twisty bits through trees, hip jumps, drifty corners, drops, doubles, small rock gardens, big fast corners, slow tight ones.

it's not pontypool, abercarn or other hand-dug steep s wales stuff that's not to be mentioned on a public forum, but for a trail center, it's far better than FOD, AC/LW, Twrch etc IMO.

I'm just gutted i'm off the bike for the next 8 weeks with a separated shoulder, as i was looking forward to another spin round there soon.

When both xc trails are running I'd say it was possibly the best trail centre in S Wales.....but then I like earning my turns!

Right, in the face of such adversity I'll go again. And if I'm wrong, I shall come back and report as such.
I'm no riding god, but I do enjoy rougher trails. I like Blade at afan, trailhounds, Antur and really like Blaengarw.
Hip jumps? Doubles? On Cafell? Really?

Hip jumps? Doubles? On Cafell? Really?

yeah, if you hit stuff fast enough and know where to look.

The young lad at P S Cycles (in the car park) is pretty handy round there - showed me a line or two!

Cafall is swoopy, tame trail. Beginner stuff compared with Twrch. Jeez, about a 3rd of the last (and only notable) descent is fire road!

Sorry - I don't remember any fire road descents on Cafall? It's certainly not smooth. When did you last ride it? I think you might've gone wrong somewhere!

The climb is smoother, for sure. Much of it is quite similar to the Twrch after the Twrch's first couple of rocky ups in terms of trail surface - dirt with rocks poking out. Cafall has more man made swoopy corners, but also lots of very natural style peaty Welsh trail and a few odds and sods. Bits of Cafall are becoming very ragged with loose rocks in mud, but this is good - at least it's good to ride, hope the trail doesn't get too battered.

They are both very sweet indeed, IMO. I think Twrch is faster whilst being rocky, you can get up exhilerating levels of whoohoo-omg-if-I-hit-a-tree-I-will-be-badly-injured speed. Cafall is more of a ride, but going fast on it still requires some thought. I think it's more tiring on the way up though, and harder to to sustained fast, because it goes on for longer and has more short steep uppy downy.

Right, in the face of such adversity I'll go again. And if I'm wrong, I shall come back and report as such.

When you going to be there? 🙂 If you find the fire road descents, take pictures!

There is 1 fireroad descent. It lasts 150 metres and you use it to carry loads of speed and peel off to the left into a swoopy, jumpy section where you can find doubles if you look. Very hard to carry full speed trough it all. Considering how little area it all fits in it's a very good trail.

^^^^ I thought my wheels were going to collapse I carried so much speed into that section while chasing down my brother.

I wonder how many people commenting how good/bad it is on here that actually ride it regularly?

Why would I? I don't like it!

Really? Doesn't come across that way at all... 😆

Having ridden both, I think I prefer Cafall. Twrch seemed like one long (tricky in places) climb, a flattish bit at the top and a long, fast but quite dull descent back to the car park.

Personally I like the swooping through the trees of Cafall. It's not really technical or tough descent wise, but its good fun. I'd go back.

So? My opinion is as valid as anyones. Nobody said you have to like it and nobody cares if you don't.

The OP asked if Cwmcarn is any good. The OP can consider your opinion, the opinion of absolutely everybody else, and consider, on the balance of probability, who's more likely to be right.

That's quite simply not true though is it? Numerous posters have said that Cwmcarn isn't worth a trip at present, not just me. I am not the only one who was disappointed by Cafall either.

That's quite simply not true though is it? Numerous posters have said that Cwmcarn isn't worth a trip at present, not just me. I am not the only one who was disappointed by Cafall either.

Err, no. One or two think that it's not worth a long trip, given the other trail is mostly closed, because you can't do a full day of riding. I agree with them. One other poster was "disappointed" but liked parts of it.

You're the only one banging on and on about how terrible it is.

Cafall is probably my favourite welsh mtb trail. I agree people might prefer one trail to another, but I'm not sure how you could hate riding it, but enjoy riding your bike elsewhere ? It's a track that goes up and down, round bends up a mountain and through some woods, whats not to like !!! If you find it not particularly challenging, just go faster untill you do. 😀

Never ridden Caffel. Looking to find somewhere to practice riding rocky XC on a race HT without killing myself - does Caffel fit the bill?

There are always people there on HTs and stuff but I only have a 160mm travel bike and enjoy going as fast as I can down the descents at Cafall which I think are much more fun than those on the Twrch Trail (for all the reasons stated above). If I'm going to pedal all the way to the top of the hill then I want more than a few mins in a straight line to the bottom.

And if you think BPW is too smooth and dull, then you've either: not got the point of the place, not going fast enough or not bothered riding the black runs (50 Shades of Black is renowned for being as easy and smooth as a freshly tar aced road

I was at Cwmcarn last week and would agree the Cafall is much, much better than Twrch. Very, very litle fireroad at all, swoopy, fast and in places, technical enough to make me flinch.

I really enjoyed it. The view from the top isn't bad either:

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@ adsh

if you want proper rocky for XC practice then Afan is possibly a better bet. There are a few "rocky" sections at Cwmcarn although Twlch was far rockier than Cafall is. Of course, if you can get up to Coed y Brenin then you will be spoilt

Never ridden Caffel. Looking to find somewhere to practice riding rocky XC on a race HT without killing myself - does Caffel fit the bill?

My friend rode it last Sunday on a fairly low-spec, short travel HT. He enjoyed himself, so I think you'd be fine. He was a bit slow on the downs but not ridiculously so.

Twrch seemed like one long (tricky in places) climb, a flattish bit at the top and a long, fast but quite dull descent back to the car park.

The last descent is one of the best sections of trail I've ever ridden, and I've ridden quite a lot.

It's an interesting thing this, people arguing over trails. It all depends on how you ride. Some folk want the trail to be a challenge to get down, and the last Twrch descent is not that in any way. If you roll down it, you'll be bored. Other folk are handy riders and want to pin it, and if you do that it's exhilerating. Over a certain speed it flows very well - the tricky bits are keeping your wheels on the ground where you need them, and in the air where you can, whilst trying not to have what could be a very serious off.

Sounds perfect - want some fun, climbing and need to adjust to some short sections of steeper rocks on the race bike. The extra time to Afan is a pain at the moment.