[Closed] Chameleon vs 456 vs .....

Ragley must be on the vs list.

differences? where to start...

whilst both are designed for a similar purpose they achieve it quite differently. for me the chameleon would be worth the extra because ive never got on with the on ones ive tried and i loved my cham. horses for courses though...

if you are thinking chameleon then cove stiffee is its nearest competitor really. id look at the marin rocky ridge personally, i had one and if anything i thought it was a better ride than the cham; slightly more give in the rear and no faffy dropout/bb design.

if you are leaning towards the on one then as said above the ragley would be worht a look. dialled bikes prince albert or even the alpine if you want something tougher still. then you move up to looking at stuff like cotics and whatnot. the genesis steel hardtails look good too.

Evil Sovereign (if you have the budget)
Dialled PA

What about one of these? [url= http://www.alpinebikes.com/shop/sale/bikes/stiffee-frameset/ ]Stiffee anyone?[/url]

If your looking a t a Cham you must have a budget of [url= http://www.stif.co.uk/gear/select_options.asp?productID=5717 ]around £600?[/url] and if your looking at a 456 you must also be considering a steel frame. So how about a £600 Steel frame?

[url= http://www.kustombikes.co.uk/frames/evil_frames/evil_sovereign_frame ]Evil Sovereign[/url]

i didnt mention the sovereign cos its such a cliche recommending your own bike lol. its a great bike though!

Either would be a good frame, but after nearly 20 years of doing this nonsense, I don't think I'll be in rush to get rid of my Chameleon, reckon it's the best HT I've ridden

Chameleon:

100-160mm forks
Alu
Very stiff (harsh?)
Single-speedable (eccentric BB)
Better finish
More expensive
A bit lighter

456:

100-150mm forks
Steel
Not so harsh
Cheap

Not sure on geometry differences. I think most people would agree that the Chameleon is the better frame in terms of build quality, desirability etc. but in terms of how much fun you are going to have, I doubt there's much in it. On-Ones are cheap, cheerful and a lot of fun. If you are going to do any serious jumping I would think the Chameleon best?!

thanks for the replies guys. i think i may have to look into the 456 a bit more. its just so damn cheap and will allow more spore funds for some bling elsewhere on the bike.

anyone else want to back up poppa's claim that there isn't really much difference between the two??

ive got a 456 summer season in "slightly too small" and, while it is heavy as death (the bike, not the frame, mainly because of the monster bomber fork and near 1kg rear rim 8O) it is a riot on the descents 😀

back to flat pedal hooliganism at the moment, foot out flat out, ragged and loose.

treating the weight as training for the dyfi :s

(705g rim + hope bulb + DH tubes + DH tyre = EFFORT!

I really like my Chameleon but it is difficult to keep the eccentric bottom bracket from creaking. Other than that I find it a great bike.

Seriously, ragley mmm bop. A friend of mine I's selling his 16 inch chameleon to get one... Brilliant bike.

Just so I don't get misinterpreted, I didn't say that there isn't much difference, I just said that you would probably have just as much fun on either!

ChrisL, really? mine squeaks occasionally when it get dusty (I wish 🙄 ) but very rarely otherwise.

used to ride a regular Inbred, and whilst I'm probably a bit biased about it, The Cham is a much better bike TBH, much more planted, solid feeling, you can chuck it into most things and it'll just carry on regardless. I was a bit worried about the whole harsh reputation, it's really no worse than most other HTs, and those big fat stays mean that the back end pretty much stays where you put it. I'm happy to ride all day on it

I thought* 456's had especially long chainstays to help out climbing steep stuff. Longer chainstays will make jumping that bit more difficult as it won't be as easy to pop up the front end
The ragleys for eg have particularly steep seat angles to help climbing, whilst keeping shorter/normal length chainstays

I thought* chameleons had quite short chainstays, making it easy to pop up the front end

Whether that bothers you or not, I have no idea. I guess it depends on your 'needs' for stable climbing or front end 'liftability'

*I've nothing to back this up though, just what I think I can remember reading on here over the years, so I could easily be wrong ..

Any excuse to post a pic.
[IMG] [/IMG]
1 more vote for Stiffee

I had a Chameleon and hated it. Far too much of a bone shaker for me. I have a Dialled Alpine at the moment and think its pretty cool. The Prince Albert I have/had as it is just a frame at the moment was probably better for long rides but maybe not as good on technical stuff going up and down.

I've had a Stiffee, 456, Dialled PA and Chameleon and without a doubt, the Chameleon is the best of the lot. It just handles everything you point it at with ease, is light, strong, dependable and could run rings around the 456 on the descents. If, however, you were after a more XC biased ride, then the 456 would be better suited.

GEDA - Member

I had a Chameleon and hated it. Far too much of a bone shaker for me. I have a Dialled Alpine at the moment and think its pretty cool.

I've had 3 Chameleons and loved them, BUT yes they are bone shakers and the reason I swapped to a Dialled Alpine. Now if the Alpine was the weight of the Chameleon I'd have not far off my ideal frame.

For info, I've also had an Inbred and Dialled PA. Didn't get on with either - both too long. DMR Switchback was a lovely frame, however, until I bent it...

Does the new BFe not get a look in.

Surley if the 456 is in then so must Cotics offering.

and that Stiffee is the one i have had my eye on skidsareforkids.

Thought the Bfe would be the one, but that Stiffee keeps calling me 🙄

456....

Love mine

[img] [/img]

456 is silly value... Used ones go for barely less than new ones (sometimes for more than new ones!) so it's always worth a flutter. Everyone who likes Chameleons loves them it seems.

The Ragleys are available on the bikeradar demo days if you want to try one out, they seem like an obvious one to try.

Your right about the length. I had à 50mm Stem on the pa and an 85mm stem on the alpine. Tried out on the steepest rockiest descent and it feels great. Thought it might be too long but i can still manual

TBH there are so many decent HTs in this category that whatever you choose is going to be petty sorted. Definatly Soverign BeFe Stiffee etc etc. Nice to have that sort of " dilema"

Thanks for the replies guys. I still think im going to go with the 456. Im not sure ill noice the difference between it and a much more expensive frame such as the chameleon. Plus from what i can understand its lighter and not quite as stiff/brutal.
I'm only light so i dont think strength will be too much of a worry.

And as others have mentioned, if all goes wrong and i dont like it, i will be able to sell it on for not much of a hit.

Get a small PA if you are not to tall? - problem sorted. Loads of standover and the top tube aint to long so makes for a more jumpy/trashable bike, but still good on longer rides 8)

There are quite a few of the genesis alpitude framesets knocking about, same kind of beast, just with the mystical power of Reynolds 853...