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You need to stop thinking kit is going to make you quicker because someone with an opinion says its better. Unless there is physically something wrong with it, it’s not the thing slowing you down.
That's like saying a carbon aero frame won't make a roadie faster... of course it will surely ?
Kit is better at different things, some bikes suit fast, some suit tech, none really suit everything. So changing kit to something else could give 'something' ... Don't forget, people are not looking for 30s down a trail, it can be 2s.
We've been thnking about similar regarding the boys bike/racing, well i have, i don't know how much he has.... He's only 2s off the podium in his last DH race... if something in his kit context can get him 2s.... then it'd be crazy not to. Sure he's working on it and working with various coaches too, but that doesn't mean kit can't help.
So get him the same bike/kit as the winner.
So get him the same bike/kit as the winner.
Now you're being silly... would you rather go back to Xmas presents and mince pie threads ? At least this is a MTB discussion.... sheesh.
I dunno, I reckon I’ve a bit of experience in the ‘buying stuff but not going any faster’ category.
I hate mince pies.
I dunno, I reckon I’ve a bit of experience in the ‘buying stuff but not going any faster’ category.
MAybe so, but what if Danny Hart wins week 1, then Pierron, then Maes, then Minaar, you can't buy every bike every week. So just buying the winners bike is silly talk.
But often on here we see threads of where people buy new bikes and then go faster than ever, is that placebo ? or confirmation bias ? or is their new bike actually quicker....
Tyres tyres and tyres... and suspension tune.
Terminal velocity in the rough comes down to vibration and grip.
If youre getting shook about by bad tyres, tyres too hard or poor suspension setup.
Similarly overly wooly suspension and tyres on a pedally bit.
I found getting my Shock PUSHed to fit my weight and bike made a huge difference
as did fitting stickier tyres, tubless, on wider rims.
MAybe so, but what if Danny Hart wins week 1, then Pierron, then Maes, then Minaar, you can’t buy every bike every week. So just buying the winners bike is silly talk.
Which indicates it’s that it’s the rider, not the bike, no?
Now you’re being silly…
He's not though is he.
If you think your lad would win on a different bike and winning means that much to you just get him that bike.
If he doesn't win you know you were wrong.
I love new bikes/kit as much as anyone but don't think its a magic ticket to speed.
If I buy new stuff it's simply because I want that particular thing to see what it's like day to day.
or is their new bike actually quicker….
The only time this happened to me was going from a Yeti ASR-C to a Airborne Edit, and the Edit was significantly faster pretty much everywhere apart from a couple of pretty smooth climbs (The Yeti was silly light though) I set personal bests on nearly every techy descent that I could find and sometimes by significant amounts (15-20secs faster) It was a revelation having a suspension bike that actually worked in your favour for the particular type of terrain I had at the time, so yeah, you can buy speed.
If you think your lad would win on a different bike and winning means that much to you just get him that bike.
lol i never said that 😀
He’s only 2s off the podium in his last DH race… if something in his kit context can get him 2s…. then it’d be crazy not to. Sure he’s working on it and working with various coaches too, but that doesn’t mean kit can’t help.
Nah, it's not the kit, you need to shout louder from the sidelines. That's an easy 2 second boost.
You should contact Paul Hart and ask how he did it. He's got a fast son and he made loads of friends along the way.
EDIT: True story- The only time I've ever 'bought speed' was in 2005. I was in Whistler for 6 weeks and sometime after the first week my old plastic Hutchinson Jumbo's were completely worn out. I fitted some Super Tacky High Rollers which all the cool kids were running and immediately went many %%%%'s faster everywhere. I spent about £300 on tyres that month but it was worth every penny.
He’s only 2s off the podium in his last DH race… if something in his kit context can get him 2s…. then it’d be crazy not to.
That seems to be pointing to if I buy him something new he'll win.
You are sounding like an MX dad.😉
“ G170 is awesome to ride… really good fun too…. but i always sit and wonder “would i go faster on XYZ and if so, how much””
The only way you’ll know is with properly-organised timed testing. If you had issues with the G170 then it would be much easier to find time by changing bikes but as you don’t then you’d need to spend days doing accurate testing with a selection of properly set up alternate bikes.
Alternatively, get a selection of tyres and after practice change to the best possible tyres for that course and conditions - I don’t think anything makes as big a difference as the right tyres.
That seems to be pointing to if I buy him something new he’ll win.
You are sounding like an MX dad
Far from it... i'll buy him something when he grows out of the current bike.. Not before.
I have been looking at a DH bike in passing if he decides he's doing a full DH season next year, but that's very much open to debate.
Has anyone mentioned 29in wheels?
Is the ‘no skinsuit/peakless helmets’ rule enforced at all levels of DH?
Failing that, tuck his jersey in?
😈
Has anyone mentioned 29in wheels?
I did, but it never really got picked up. It's a thought though.
Best way to get faster, ride more.
i think you can buy speed to an extent. IE if you are on a low rent fs bike to a top of the line fs. As one would assume it would be lighter, better suspension, better wheels etc etc.
Again assuming the bike was the correct tool for the job. No point in an EWS winning machine for a smooth blue run. And vice versa.
I think there can be placebo effect that can make you fast (IE: my £1400 fox 38's are way betterererer than the 36's they replaced, so i can push harder).
But ultimately, if you are on a bike that works for you, that has a reasonable build kit, then the only thing that will make you faster is riding. More riding = more skill.
Pretty much every ride i do will have a few new PB's (strava). The bike is the same. I'm just getting fitter, stronger, more confident and therefore.... faster.
I’ve been schooled off-road in the wet by a rider on a wholly inappropriate hardtail ith crap tyres while I was riding a premium full suss with sticky knobblies. I would defo not have gone faster on his bike.
Strange comment. You seem to be saying that the fact that moving from a premium bike to a crap bike doesn't make you faster indicates that the bike makes no difference. When in fact it proves the opposite
Coaching
Suspension
Brakes
Tyres
As long as the bikes geometry/kinematics arn't totally bobbins and it actually fits, then you should be able to make it go fast with the four things above. My G1 is about as high end as you can get, I did a coaching day with an ex pro dh racer who is also a very good coach, made a huge difference to my riding.
Pretty much every ride i do will have a few new PB’s (strava). The bike is the same. I’m just getting fitter, stronger, more confident and therefore…. faster.
This.
Practice and get fitter, tiring towards the end of races or stages makes for mistakes and poor lines that no amount of carbon components will fix.
Coaching
Suspension
Brakes
Tyres
Basically that.
If 'going fast' is a serious objective, then invest in something like a set of freelap poles & go & break a trail down, section by section & then link it together again.
If the technique is there, then unless you are World Cup level pinned, then you can pull multiple seconds out of even a 45 second trail by sessioning it, corner by corner & finding the limits.
And that's just at my mediocre level (occasional winner/podiumer at the sort of races you go to).
It's also quite good fun to do 🙂
Practice and get fitter, tiring towards the end of races or stages makes for mistakes and poor lines that no amount of carbon components will fix.
Eldest_oab would have been top 10 EWS 100 at Tweed Valley if he had not crashed 2/3 of the way down the last stage - 38 seconds lost which faster bike could not have made up enough time on.
That said, would he have got so fast on his older Radon Swoop? He thinks not.
As ever for maximum performance, everything should be examined and upgraded.
Interesting comparing shock / fork swaps on the same bike for me. This year I swapped from my Sentry to a Sentry Pro with a coil shock and Lyrik Ultimate, everything else was the same. The pro knocked off between 3-8 seconds on fast technical trails, that was without trying to go fast, I was just enjoying the bike, it is fun and definitely faster. Where I didn’t lose some of my friends on harder trails before, I do now. I do love the coil shock for going quickly! 🙂
Best way to get faster, ride more.
See, this sounds simple but I know people who ride 3 or 4 times a week on proper trails in all weather and they're still scaredy cat mincers.
To be fast you have to spend your time figuring out how to do it rather than just pedalling around with no objective.
I did some coaching and was filmed / timed on one section of trail. I was then told to roll my bars forwards a couple of degrees - which I did, despite it feeling odd.
Re did the section and was measured at several seconds faster. That was several seconds over a section probably about two minutes.
That would all add up, cost me nothing, but shows the benefit to be had by simple set up / observation.
See, this sounds simple but I know people who ride 3 or 4 times a week on proper trails in all weather and they’re still scaredy cat mincers.
To be fast you have to spend your time figuring out how to do it rather than just pedalling around with no objective.
Aye, obviously there has to be a recognition that you may need to try different techniques and apply them, more riding then commits this to memory. I know folk who ride all the time, and are getting slower!.
My takeaway from that article is that at the speed those guys are travelling at that the straight line speed/stability benefit of lls that we love, is more than negated by their need to have an agile bike, instantly responsive to input. Never really thought about it in that way before- it's a bit like when we valued a bikes handling in singletrack more than most other attributes.
I'm guessing that at some points they might be travelling two, three or more times the speed I am, and don't have the time to wait for an inherently stable bike to respond.
As to whether the Yeti is actually a faster bike than the others- it's irrelevant really- on the day, in the conditions, for these riders etc etc.
Hi Weeksy, it’s an interesting question. I think type of bike matters as much as anything else (if we put aside rider skill for the moment) - and how confident you are in it.
For example my Aeris with 170/160mm travel was faster at Antur Stiniog than my Aether 7 on the choppiest/ roughest trails - the upper end of the reds mainly. Yet I was faster on the shorter travel Aether everywhere else as I have more confidence in the front end grip on it.
I think wheelsize makes a difference on the rough stuff - I’ve had a couple of goes on 29ers and on one it was a relatively easy trail that I’ve ridden hundreds of times on various 27.5” wheel bikes. On this occasion I was riding it in the dark with a poor light, in the winter (so less grip) on a bike I’d never ridden before and with the suspension a bit too soft and I Strava pb’d that trail.
I’m just selling my Aether 7 frame to try out a 29er frame instead - still not decided which bike yet - depends on availability more than anything else. Hoping to keep something relatively poppy but get more of that rollover speed across rough stuff but the bigger wheels.
If you want to get a bike that’s faster on the downhill and enduro stuff than the g170 I’d look at a 29er (I think you’re on 27.5 at the moment) and something a bit more ‘enduro’ in terms of geometry.
But making sure you get something the right length / stack to give you confidence in the ride - given your recent experience with a bike that was too long for you.
The Remedy is bordering between trail bike and enduro bike - I’m not sure it’ll be faster than what you have but it’s meant to be quite a fun bike.
Given where you live I’d have thought hiring a Bird AM9 and taking it to the Surrey Hills or one of the southern bike parks might be a good way to get an indication as to whether a full 29er enduro bike is something you’d like.
I’m not saying you have to buy a Bird but it’s an easy way of trying one out. Something like a Trek Slash 29er is right up there on enduro bike speed from what I’ve seen of the one my mate got this year.
To reply to Joe above, something i may consider is running the G170 in 29er mode for the day, there's clearance in abundance and the G170 was the time when they moved to S*** for 'switch' and allowing it to run 27.5 or 29.
The last 29er i rode in anger was a Commencal Meta AM29 which was a 2013. I guess things have changed and moved on a lot since then.
Swinley/etc isn't really a worthwhile place for me to test something simply because that's not the sort of thing i'd need/associate speed, whether i can do the blue at Swinley 20s quicker doesn't come into play, the place i personally need more speed is in the trickier stuff at Southern Enduro.
The reality is though that the gap from back pack irrelevance to mid pack mediocrity is more than any bike is going to give me.... If i were missing out on 5-6 places by 5s then sure, it's something to consider, the reality for me is that for me to gain 5-6 places on a Southern Enduro stage i'll need to find more like 25s.... Which no bike without a motor is going to get me 😀
But as i keep saying, this thread wasn't necessarily just about me, it was more a bike discussion rather than a "weeksy wants to go faster" but many seem to have missed that and are focusing on more me than i ideally wanted the disucssion to go. But that's OK, that's the nature of forums and i accept that.
I know people who ride 3 or 4 times a week on proper trails in all weather and they’re still scaredy cat mincers.
I didn't realise that we knew each other, I'll say hello next time 😉
The world would need to open up more and allow test rides for me to actually consider swapping the G170.
I thought you'd just bought that bike?
And based on experience, the bike that suits/fits you the best will be the fastest.
But to work out which bike this is will take a lot of effort - setup, tyres (biggest diff IMO) etc.
FWIW I've my bike dialled pretty much to suit me, and me alone. A pal though who's almost the same height/weight rode it and reckoned it was a too-tall noodley mess.
MAybe so, but what if Danny Hart wins week 1, then Pierron, then Maes, then Minaar, you can’t buy every bike every week. So just buying the winners bike is silly talk.
I thought the person was saying buy the same stuff as the rider that beat your boy in the race?
Swinley/etc isn’t really a worthwhile place for me to test something simply because that’s not the sort of thing i’d need/associate speed, whether i can do the blue at Swinley 20s quicker doesn’t come into play, the place i personally need more speed is in the trickier stuff at Southern Enduro.
I've only ever done the minehead southern enduro's, and where I lost chunks of time on my peers was on the steep stuff (Quadzilla etc), i'm just crap at letting the bike run and then get hung up etc.
the other factor is a racehead, I don't really have one. I go the same speed in practice as I do in racing whereas others always seem to find a bit more time.
i've long since accepted my mid-lower-pack mediocrity and don't bother racing anymore.
I reckon if you were to line up at the top of a broad wide rocky hill, and simply sit and roll down (i.e the bike doing ALL the work) then you'll probably find some high pivot 170mm forked bike would be fastest..
I.e the rider simple being ballast and keeping teh bike upright..
But once you put, erm, YOU in control, then all things being GENERALLY equal on the varying bikes (like, NOT comparing my Rigid singlespeed to my stumpjumper) then I bet there's naff all REAL WORLD difference..
DrP
I thought the person was saying buy the same stuff as the rider that beat your boy in the race?
HE was, but my point there was, it'll be a different bike week on week, race by race, one day it'll be kid A, or kid B, or a new kid who turns up none of them have raced..
But again, i'll keep saying it.. this wasn't necessarily just about me, or my lad... it was/is about bikes, riders, people.... Lets move on from it being specific to me/him.
Oldest child is much faster on her 161 than her old bike a 2017 Reign, strava shows 15-20% improvement.
Dissappointed 161 was not in this test.
I tend to go quickly (relatively) after many, many laps of a trail. It's like I learn small bits at a time and can only put it all together after lap 2000. This makes me useless at enduro where you get 1 practice run.
The equipment makes a small difference. I have added a better piggyback shock but mostly, once suspension is dialed in, it's the tyres that make the difference. Maybe a better rider can make do with not swapping, but I am a serial tyre swapper. So yeah, fwiw, you need a big sack of tyres to make sure you are on the right set for any given venue.
Besides the usual comments like ride more, get a coach etc the biggest difference in terms of speed for me is comfort, geometry has made the biggest difference in terms of outright speed for me - I tend to be able to attack a trail after a couple of attempts and being on a bike that really fits you will give you the confidence to do so (I'm on a G1 and the radical geometry made a massive difference). Tyres make a big difference as well.
Yes. Ride up a trail on a heavy bike. Then buy a lighter bike and you'll ride up the same trail faster.
In terms of comparing bikes.....bikes are so good these days that the difference between any of that lot is significantly less than the difference a properly tuned shock and correct pressure in a tyre (and tyre choice) would make.
Whilst my wallet is not bulging, my limiting factor is not money but more setup incompetence. In recent weeks a shockwhiz purchase has begun to get me more sorted. Previously when things have not gone well or I was appreciably slower or less controlled than friends I've put it down to rider incompetence. Giving myself at least a bit of a chance with a well sorted bike feels like a massive step forwards.
Another twist: you have a sorted £4k FS bike, no weakness and nothing's bothering you about it, but the £1-2k in your pocket is burning a hole. How do you buy the most speed for your money? Keeping with the theme of things not services/advice.
I'll try, for me:
ShockWiz
Race timing equipment for sessioning (no idea how much it costs)
GoPro
Lots of tyres to try
Lots of contact point components to try (handlebars, stems, pedals, cranks)
Gazebo
You can definitely buy cornering speed, it’ll cost about 20 quid though. The thing you need is called a spade, go and dig two corners, one each way and keep riding at them faster until you crash then keep going till you don’t anymore