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You can definitely buy cornering speed, it’ll cost about 20 quid though. The thing you need is called a spade, go and dig two corners, one each way and keep riding at them faster until you crash then keep going till you don’t anymore
Like this?
If someone wants to go a couple of seconds faster and they're on 650b, then bigger wheels are the closest thing to a dead cert.
Though I'd suggest a frame which can easily switch between full 29 and mullet, in case full 29 doesn't fit with riding style all the time.
Another much cheaper big gain - if the current frame is in the 65deg head angle realm, get a -2 deg headset from Superstar and slack it out to 63deg. It'll make a significant change to comfort at speed and confidence on steeps.
I found that a much bigger benefit than an EXT shock on my bike.
I'm not sure you could buy speed but i think you can buy confidence to a certain extent . Tyres , especially the front for me are a good example . If i have an inkling of a vaguely slippy front end it can really effect my riding . Now most of that is probably down to technique as the more uncomfortable i get the more i end up shifting my weight back and losing front end traction but knowing I've got a decent front tyre for the conditions does help with that . Experimenting with bar height can help , I've found a slightly higher rise bar helps me get into a more confident position .
Uplift days are worth a mention to , realistically time on the bike descending and building speed is probably the best way and uplift days certainly give you more time descending .
[s]Uplift days[/s] Ebikes are worth a mention to , realistically time on the bike descending and building speed is probably the best way and [s]uplift days[/s] Ebikes certainly give you more time descending .
😉
I’ve found a slightly higher rise bar helps me get into a more confident position
+1
Not just for steeps, helps the bike feel calmer in fast & rough bits too.
The whole point of the article was that it was the same rider on the same track doing timed runs. they had a few riders doing the same though to limit effect of bike fit/preferences.
The only variable is the bike in which case, yes you can buy speed on that track. However results may vary across tracks but interestingly those 3 bikes are the most winning bikes on the EWS overall...
I remember switching from 26 to newer Spesh enduro and I was instantly quicker according to strava. The bike was more capable, not sure it was just the wheels but every difference added up.
The way to buy speed is all about the confidence a bike / how it is set up gives you. That’s going to make the biggest difference one getting fitter, stronger, technically better have been exhausted
I remember switching from 26 to newer Spesh enduro and I was instantly quicker according to strava. The bike was more capable, not sure it was just the wheels but every difference added up.
whereas I still can't get close to some of the strava times I set on my 26" bandit five years ago....
I spent a bunch of time looking at the rootsandrain and Strava results of my nearest competitors at some of the enduros I've raced. I remember one event where I got on the bottom step of the podium where the two guys above me make up shedloads of time on the long pedally stage. I like to think I have the watts and I definitely had the commitment and went deep on that stage but those guys were just faster. That may have been down to tyre choice where I had a relatively slow rolling setup and they possibly had semislick rears but there's no telling whether I would have given up more time on the steep stages if I'd followed their example. That was also the day I punctured at the top of one of the gravity stages and rode the stage more or less on the rim but only gave up 10 seconds. Perhaps on a lesser tyre I'd have lost my race day there and then. Racing is racing: some you win; usually otherwise.
Buying speed probably edges towards marginal gains once you have the basics right. Rather than chopping in for a different frame though I'll happily experiment with the devil I know. My current list of wants includes 165 cranks, cutting my bars down from 800mm to something I can hustle through the tight stuff better. I've had 4 pot formula cura sitting on the shelf for a couple of years because the 2 pots work so well but an uplift day at inners showed me that I'm marginal (or possibly just need to service my brakes once in a while). I've been mucking about with B1/C1 springs in my Lyrik (currently running the bike as a 150/170 on a B1). I've been on flat pedals almost exclusively for the last few years but I've got some Superbruni mallet DH that I really ought to give another try. Tyres are all dated to pre COVID so I can mix things up there and not even feel guilty.
It's slightly funny as i was thinking about this thread when riding a Specialized HT Ebike the other day and according to my mate and my lad, i was going well on it. Of course it's got the benefit of the motor but they were both slightly surprised that i seemed to be going well on the corners too, even though it wasn't running the best forks, best tyres or even a rear shock lol.
However i think because i was chasing my lad and mate, i was basically just going with it and hitting the berms, braking later and letting off them sooner.
I do though still have a date with a YT Jeffsy 29 planned for 10 days time, but in honesty i don't think spending £4000 either on a Jeffsy or anything else is the answer. But i'm still going to have a day out and a play on it.
but in honesty i don’t think spending £4000 either on a Jeffsy or anything else is the answer. But i’m still going to have a day out and a play on it.
yep, there are normally much greater improvements to be had by making the rider better rather than buying better kit (especially when the kit you already have is pretty good anyway) - but a new bike is always good.
Its not like motorsport where you can buy speed (up to a certain point anyway) - I think a lot of people that come to mtb from a motorsport/trackday background fall into the trap of trying to buy speed.
the answer..
What was the question again? Making you a better/faster rider by throwing money about? I'm sure a lot of people do it, but they're only kidding themselves. The best way to get good is to start young. 😀
Just a thought, but somewhere I remember you saying you spent all your spare money on coaching for your lad, and therefore none left for you. Yet you’re marginally wondering about bike upgrades / new bike which will cost quite a lot.
Why not just spend some of that money on a few coaching sessions for you?
I had another coaching session a few weeks back (with Sam who works with Katy C) and just some little tweaks have my cornering better and given me a new way of looking at drops that helps with the slow speed ones I struggle with. I think a 3 hour 1 to 1 coaching session isn’t much more expensive than a replacement XT mech just to put it on context.
I plan to book another one in the spring once I’ve worked a bit with what came out of the last session. Slow speed drops and steep chutes are probably my biggest development area right now. Some of it is probably lack of bottle as much as technique though so I just need to keep practising as many different drops as I can find that I can get myself to commit to.
Why not just spend some of that money on a few coaching sessions for you?
I don't feel i'm worth it mate. If you knew me IRL you'd understand that statement a little more.. but i do things for others rather than for myself the vast majority of the time.
you go faster on an ebike because of teh weight. ebikes are confidence inspiring downhill and stable due to teh centered low weight. Remember Chris porter strapping weights to DH bikes.? same principle. the extra weight also makes teh suspension work better.
although some bikes you can just ride fast. my old ht cannondale was an absolute rocketship. first ride was at a really muddy big dog race and i had the stock crappy xc tyres on and was still faster and taking sketchier offcamber lines than most people. it just worked, for me, really really well. it was never white again mind haha!
Does not being 'faster' take enjoyment away from you rides? Does frustration take the fun out?
If so, then as many have said, some coaching sounds the way (despite you not wanting to spend the money).
If not, then i would just ride as much as you can, try and keep pace with your lad or other folk that ride 'faster' and just enjoy being on your bike.
Also another thing to note, is i find when im trying to ride 'fast', i make lots of silly mistakes, whereas if i just cruise and enjoy, i generally ride just as fast, if not faster than when trying to go for it..... could be food for thought?!
Does not being ‘faster’ take enjoyment away from you rides? Does frustration take the fun out?
To be honest, not so much... i really enjoy the Southerns and just getting down some of the trails alive makes me happy 😀
I'm only slow when i go racing.... when i'm out with mates, out at BPW/Afan/wherever i'm perfectly acceptable and on the pace of many/most.... but racing obviously brings a higher level and i'd LIKE to be faster/better... but i'm mostly just enjoying the time in the woods with my boy.
But but but you’ll spend money on new bikes or new shocks etc for your bikes for you - but not drop less money on a coaching session?
Honestly - you’ll get way more out of a 3 hour coaching session than a new shock or new brakes or new bling bit etc. They’re also normally really enjoyable sessions.
Katy was good on the session I had with her - increasing my confidence again after a few big crashes and getting the basics dialled.
Sam was great in a different way - I already have the basics so it was more fine detail and finding more challenging bits of trail to think about. There was one steeper (not crazy steep) bit of off piste covered in leaves with some roots lurking in places and a right / right / left corner combination that was tricky to come out of with any speed. We sessioned that for about half an hour trying different lines and techniques and I came out of it much more confident.
We also looked at getting wheels back on the ground ASAP after a drop. I’ve been ok at faster drops just by boosting the front wheel up into the air - but slow speed that’s harder and if you have a corner or rooty section just after you don’t necessarily want to be in the air for ages. So looking more at a push forward / down on the bars just after the drop to get wheels on the ground again.
Thoroughly recommend it over the latest fancy bike part - although I’m a nightmare for buying bike bits / new tyres etc as well 🙈
Edit - my new sentinel 29er is definitely faster over the stuff I’ve ridden so far vs my Aether 7. And that’s riding through absolute slop right now - vs dry trails on the Aether and where I knew the bike well. It’s going to be ballistic when the trails dry up and the Hillbilly / DHR2 get swapped for something a bit faster rolling.
But but but you’ll spend money on new bikes or new shocks etc for your bikes for you – but not drop less money on a coaching session?
Errrrm not so much matey.. I bought the Bird frame as the G160 was killing shocks, i never bought any shocks without having too, because they kept braking. The Bird was then straight-swapped for the G170, so apart from the Bird frame i've bought nothing in 3 years for the bike.
I like Katy, without doubt... but i guess i'm self-conscious that my time has passed and i'm better spending the money on the lad for coaching instead of myself, hence he has a session with Wye-mtb and a session with Katy in the next few weeks coming up. The logical one would be for me to jump on his sessions with her... but i don't want to hold back his learning.
(yes, i'm aware how daft some of that sounds)
I probably said 29in wheels in this thread before.
And the only other things which can compete with that for increasing speed are skills coaching and getting fitter (strength training, not just cardio).
you go faster on an ebike because of teh weight. ebikes are confidence inspiring downhill and stable due to teh centered low weight. Remember Chris porter strapping weights to DH bikes.? same principle. the extra weight also makes teh suspension work better.
It's not quite that black & white, or simple. In 'some' situations ebikes can be as fast, or faster, but there are also plenty of situations where they are not as quick.
I haven't done any back to back comparisons with my now current ebike, as it's still new, but until recently on the whole, my previous ebike was slower, to a notable degree in most situations. The weight provides stability, but it also makes the bike harder to slow down on (very) steep sections & harder to handle on janky tech.
I have one section of trail I use as a repeatable test. A fast, open & flowing line, with mellow corners, into a high line over roots which you need to hop, then a super hard braking section before dropping into a steep bombhole, followed by an increasing section of rough & steepness. The whole trail is ~1m30s & regardless of conditions I am ~4 seconds slower on the ebike. Most of which is lost in the braking zones. It's not always practical to brake earlier on an ebike as the trail may not allow for it, so I have to ride it slower, to make it down. I have tried many a time to ride at a speed comparable to my normal bike & as yet I haven't made it down the trail in one piece.
There is a massive difference in feel with a 16/17/18kg DH bike, with 200mm of travel, over a 150mm E-Bike weighing 24kg.
Don’t do yourself down mate - it’s never too late to learn. Rather than jumping on a joint one with your lad who sounds like he’s clearly faster - just get one yourself.
It’ll make your racing more enjoyable if nothing else - at the moment it sounds like you’re just about surviving down some of the enduro trails. Just one session will boost your technique and confident so you can enjoy the riding more.
I’ve gone from loving pure flow trails and hating roots / slippery / steep stuff to enjoying some of that jank now. I’m still not up there riding the really difficult stuff that’s got big drops / very steep chutes but I’m going in that direction bit by bit.
I put that down to two things - a bit of coaching - and riding with a group of mates who are pretty much all better than me technically. That means I’m always having to push myself to try things and ride different trails. I still think I’m about an average kind of rider but better than I was even a year ago, let alone 4 years ago when I got my first really aggro bike.
I still think I’m about an average kind of rider but better than I was even a year ago, let alone 4 years ago when I got my first really aggro bike.
I have no doubt i'm better currently than i've ever been on a bike, better and braver.... but it's all relative 😀
I like Katy, without doubt… but i guess i’m self-conscious that my time has passed and i’m better spending the money on the lad for coaching instead of myself, hence he has a session with Wye-mtb and a session with Katy in the next few weeks coming up. The logical one would be for me to jump on his sessions with her… but i don’t want to hold back his learning.
Do a 3hr morning session with her, to teach you the fundamentals & you can go away & cement those skills.
I'm pretty sure your lad would relish the opportunity to ride faster, harder trails with his dad on his wheel & having a friendly rivalry when racing. Otherwise at some point in the not too distant future, because of his age & kids ability to soak up new skills, he's going to stop riding with you, because the chasm will be too big.
More of a general observation, but I do find it odd with MTB specifically, there seems to be a real 'issue' with people having skills coaching against pretty much any other sport.
Do a 3hr morning session with her, to teach you the fundamentals & you can go away & cement those skills.
I’m pretty sure your lad would relish the opportunity to ride faster, harder trails with his dad on his wheel & having a friendly rivalry when racing. Otherwise at some point in the not too distant future, because of his age & kids ability to soak up new skills, he’s going to stop riding with you, because the chasm will be too big.
I've done a 3 hour session with her... and with Jedi...
I think some of this is being slightly mis-interpreted in terms of my speed and the fun we have. Whilst i may not get down the red/slightly blacks, i still get down them, be it at Rogate, BPW, Afan, wherever really. It's not like he's waiting for 10 minutes, we're talking 10-15s at the bottom of a 2+min trails... so he's only just got his breath. When i ride with other mates, on the techy trails i'm holding my own and often sent down as the lead rider and i'm not holding the other blokes up...
As for the future, my lad is at a decent level of DH and Enduro, mid/front pack racer and only say 2s off the podiums in most races at the moment, even last time out in the U16 class he was 2.5s off the podium, so me chasing him down and keeping up, well, that's just not likely, even if i move in with Katy and Seth and live in their garden lol. I'm well aware that there'll come a time when he doesn't want to ride with me, but in honesty i don't think my speed, or lack of it will be the deciding factor in this...
i really enjoy the Southerns and just getting down some of the trails alive makes me happy 😀
I’m only slow when i go racing…. when i’m out with mates, out at BPW/Afan/wherever i’m perfectly acceptable and on the pace of many/most
It's been said before, I'm sure.. go and practise the stuff you're not comfortable with. If you're just riding the stuff at BPW / Afan / wherever that you've ridden for ever it won't help you progress on the other stuff.
Go to FOD, for example, with the express intention of practising / sessioning stuff rather than just riding the 'usual' trails.. the turns near the start of Sheepskull (or maybe Ski Run, I forget - the one the skills courses use), Wormhole (near the top of Launchpad) as just a couple of examples. Stuff like that you can do with your lad so you both benefit.
It’s been said before, I’m sure.. go and practise the stuff you’re not comfortable with. If you’re just riding the stuff at BPW / Afan / wherever that you’ve ridden for ever it won’t help you progress on the other stuff.
Go to FOD, for example, with the express intention of practising / sessioning stuff rather than just riding the ‘usual’ trails.. the turns near the start of Sheepskull (or maybe Ski Run, I forget – the one the skills courses use), Wormhole (near the top of Launchpad) as just a couple of examples. Stuff like that you can do with your lad so you both benefit
Not sure what makes you think i don't do that ? But that couldn't be further from the truth if you tried. I spend a huge amount of my riding going to/on stuff i'm not comfortable with. Sure i spend plenty of time doing the other stuff too, but you've got that wrong i'm afraid.
I've got a way you can buy speed - [url= https://www.pinkbike.com/news/stop-the-skinsuit-rule.html ]a nice tight skinsuit[/url]
You'll be the belle of the ball
😀
I’m only slow when i go racing…. when i’m out with mates, out at BPW/Afan/wherever i’m perfectly acceptable and on the pace of many/most
Yeah, it's really easy to have a bad run on a race track. Maybe only one timed bite of the cherry. Freshly cut maybe, more line variety. Might not be anything like when you rode it in practice. Or maybe you didn't get a practice run in.
Really easy to go in too hot, too slow, miss a sneaky line others have spotted.
Pretty sure when I've compared ebike to MTB times in the same age cats the times have been comparable.
I’ve got a way you can buy speed – a nice tight skinsuit
didn't he crash hard a few milliseconds after that shot?
I’ve got a way you can buy speed – a nice tight skinsuit
OK I stand corrected, there are four guaranteed ways to get faster.
😀
Not sure what makes you think i don’t do that ? But that couldn’t be further from the truth if you tried
I think what frogstomp is trying to say is that you need to get out and ride places other than what are basically easy trail centres.
Seems a few folks have offered to show you some more interesting trails* but you don't seem to have taken them up on the offers.
You're not really going to progress much by for example going to Flyup and riding the same trail over and over again to get a couple of seconds faster.
If you really want to get better go and ride some hand cut trails. Stop worrying about getting two second quicker. Stop over thinking things and just get on with riding your bike.
*myself included
didn’t he crash hard a few milliseconds after that shot?
Yes! If you read the article it was (likely!) because the skinsuit made him go so fast, he couldn't cope 😀
Seems a few folks have offered to show you some more interesting trails* but you don’t seem to have taken them up on the offers.
Well apart from riding recently with Jimmy748 and pming hob-nob multiple times but dates not quite working out over Xmas due to family stuff on both sides ? LOL.... I've taken both up on their discussions.
Good for you then.
Riding more tech trails really will bring your riding on.
Where did Jimmy take you?
Seems unlike you to not start a thread about it.
If you really want to get better go and ride some hand cut trails. Stop worrying about getting two second quicker. Stop over thinking things and just get on with riding your bike.
+1
And session them.
You can buy extra speed, it’s pretty much what Chris Porter talks about in the NSMB podcast. He says he’s not getting any younger or fitter so has been looking and designing bikes to make him faster, hence the longer, lower, slacker bikes and better suspension set up, etc. he said all these things mean he carries apeed better, is less beat up because the bike is more stable than it’s competitors/predecessors.
- Get fitter and stronger. Take up CrossFit, or something similar, squat lots, ride more, hit up 3 spin classes a week and put maximum effort in, get a personal trainer.
- Lose some weight.
- If you get to the point where you’re not exhausted and your arms aren’t blown out by the end of the run it makes a lot of difference.
- Go on a coaching day/weekend or two
The best thing that ever happened for my riding (after getting my bike dialled in for me) was riding 1-3 times a week, CrossFit and prior to that training with a PT who specialised in Functional Fitness (unbranded CrossFit), dropping 10-15kg (unfortunately it’s creepy back over the last 3 years of not training properly) and having a really good engine, strong legs with good endurance and much better upper and core strength.
It all depends how much effort someone wants to put in to get better. And any person can improve their fitness and strength regardless of age or income.
You can definitely buy speed if it's just storming down typical Peak District bridleways. A very slack 29er with 2 metre wheelbase will get you down faster than lesser bikes. As long as you don't bottle it, the tyres can stand it, you don't dump the bike on to the worst lines and compound it with piss poor body movement.
I have seen grown men (you expect it of children), blaming perfectly good bike/components because of inflated views of their skillset and athletic ability, whilst not acknowledging any gained experience between bike/component changes or the fact things were broken or completely different quality to begin with!
Most amateurs, myself included, don't consistently surf the limits of traction, technique and athletic performance to get meaningful results.
Confidence from optimal setup and a bike that fits well, on a particular day/conditions, on particular terrain and enthusiasm of new often result in internet superlatives from people who aren't comparing equal things!
Enjoy a video......
@zerocool is spot on, so many people who will blame everything but won't ever actually try to get properly fit.
Steve Peat just comes across as such a good lad all the time. Surprising how quick he goes on the old bike - in normal person terms 7 seconds isn’t a lot - but in top class racing it’s probably a lifetime.
Surprising how quick he goes on the old bike – in normal person terms 7 seconds isn’t a lot – but in top class racing it’s probably a lifetime.
That track isn't that difficult, I've done it on a trail bike and I'm more than a bit rubbish. I did take a few B lines, and clearly I'm far far slower.
But with reference to the overbiked thread recently, a rider of Peaty's skill is not pushing either bike to its technical limit.
An uneducated guess is that tubeless wagon wheels gave him more speed on the easy stuff rather than increasing his limit on the crux moves.
The tune at the start of that vid made me think Parks and Recreation was starting.
The OP's question wasn't 'how can I get faster?' or 'what should I do?' it's specifically 'does spending more on a bike make it faster?'
I'm sure he knows training and skills make you go faster, pretty much anyone knows that. I doubt he needed telling.
I would say, given the limitations of one's own current abilities then yes. Spending money on better equipment can improve confidence and therefore speed.