[Closed] Can you buy speed on trails, tech, enduro?

Yeah, buy a coach, buy a diet plan, buy an eBike

Core strength, and being able to pedal out the saddle for as long and as hard as you can.

Coaching after that.

Bikes will make bugger all difference in comparison.

Trek Remedy isn’t in the test you link to. Reasonable to expect it to be slower than a Slash on anything rowdy, so not sure what you’d gain there. Are you on a G170 now? If so, you’re not comparing like for like

remedy8 will be 8 secs quicker than your bike...

Are you on a G170 now?

Correct.

I'm not comparing like for like no, but comparing what I own with what I could buy.

More speed is not the same as more fun.....

I'd say there could easily be 3-5 secs in a bike that suits you, but if might not be one that suited the reviewer, or the trail he was on.

ebike more fun. maybe

I’d say there could easily be 3-5 secs in a bike that suits you, but if might not be one that suited the reviewer, or the trail he was on.

A very very fair point I agree

ebike more fun. maybe

Not an option

I’d suggest that the better the rider, the less the bike matters in seconds’ difference (but at high level milliseconds matter). Whilst a bike that gives a less competent/confident rider the safety margin and security to commit and attack could make a big difference.

And key to that is having a bike set up well for the rider - suspension, cockpit, tyres, etc. And you can’t buy that, you have to spend time on it.

Depends on the track your riding on, some bikes will suit certain tracks more than others and will be faster on those types of tracks and slower on other types of track.

But it's mainly the rider that makes the most difference I reckon.

Edit : what honourable George said

And key to that is having a bike set up well for the rider – suspension, cockpit, tyres, etc. And you can’t buy that, you have to spend time on it.

This is weeksy you're talking about... he spends serious time on it.

I'm interested in the outcome. I reckon 3 seconds.

This is weeksy you’re talking about… he spends serious time on it.

but then this would also be the 4th bike in around 12-18months? So far it’s gone enduro to trail to enduro to now (potentially) something not quite enduro

The fastest enduro race bike – 10 bikes go head-to-head on an EWS stage

Is that enduromtb website a big deal then ?
I'm intrigued by the fact that they pretty much got sent the team bikes from most of the big players at the drop of a hat and yet STW apparently struggles to get anything to test at all.....

( according to the email I got sent at the weekend)

In the tyre pressure thread I think you said that you weren't grip limited. This begs the question what is limiting your speed. When you know what that it might help you know if another bike will be faster.

Me i'm fear or common sense limited. There were times rock climbing when, looking back I was brave. I was prepared to get hurt. I just don't feel like that on a bike. I enjoy a bit of speed, I enjoy trying to corner a bit better. But at the end of the day i'm not pushing to the point where I think I might get hurt. I certainly wouldn't enter an event where I was timed downhill, it would be rude. Knowing this leaves me in a surprisingly happy place

@ampthill Amen to that.

This begs the question what is limiting your speed

Ability, fear, self preservation. I guess passing that limit for me is tough.

Isn't the pushing yourself part of being human.?

I was watching top gear today and it brought back a lot of memories from when I raced motorbikes, it was brilliant to see someone else being thrown in with the emotions I had first time lining up on the grid with seasoned racers

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying I'm swapping bikes, changing this, or that, I'm just sitting analysing and questioning the how, why, what really.

The world would need to open up more and allow test rides for me to actually consider swapping the G170.

It's defo mostly the rider not the bike. I can be shit on any bike.

I've been schooled off-road in the wet by a rider on a wholly inappropriate hardtail ith crap tyres while I was riding a premium full suss with sticky knobblies. I would defo not have gone faster on his bike.

I hate to break it to you but unless you are already right at the pointy end of the race category I wouldn't worry as a new bike won't get you there.

I hate to break it to you but unless you are already right at the pointy end of the race category I wouldn’t worry as a new bike won’t get you there

That really wasn't my expectation, or indeed the point of the thread. It was as much a discussion about bikes, geometry, wheel size, pressures, brakes as anything, maybe I didn't phrase the initial questions well.

Is that enduromtb website a big deal then ?

I find it a bit irritating, they tend to make blanket black and white statements ( like this bike is the fastest) where there are always shades of grey. They try and use data where the margin oferror exceeds the differences between two things being compared.

That, and the beards are annoying😂

Fastest reviewed bike is the one that happens to suit the tester. You cannot judge anything from that as it might not suit you.

It is always a matter of diminishing returns. You’re trying to approach “optimum”. The amount of gain left to buy is the gap from where you are to optimum. If you can judge what’s missing you can maybe go out and buy it. If you have no idea about what the missing piece is, you and your money can be parted easily for no return.

If you have no idea about what the missing piece is, you and your money can be parted easily for no return

I think that's quite important. I also think that answer can differ day to day, location to location and type of trail. So bike A may be better on Monday at FoD but slower at Peaslake of Friday and quicker on Sunday at 417.

There's never a simple answer in general, it could be 29er wheels, faster rolling tyres, better fork and shock settings.

There’s never a simple answer in general

The simple answer is always the rider.
Riding different and increasingly more difficult trail rather than worrying about how fast you are will always get better results.
You'll gain more confidence and therefore gain some speed as a side effect.

The simple answer is always the rider.
Riding different and increasingly more difficult trail rather than worrying about how fast you are will always get better results.
You’ll gain more confidence and therefore gain some speed as a side effect.

Assuming that's a direct reference to me, that's exactly what I've done this year

Assuming that’s a direct reference to me

No it's not.
Its a general comment.

No it’s not.
Its a general comment

Cool. I'd like it if this place did emojis better 🤣

Better quality suspension fatigues less on the descents which means you'd be fresher for the next stage. More expensive bikes tend to be lighter which means they're easier to pedal up the climbs so you're fresher for the next descent.

It's a cumulative thing.

Yes. No.

Think about it in the most extreme terms. Doesn't matter what moto GP bike they give me, I'll never ride it anywhere near it's limits, 90% of the bike is wasted on me. Give a top rider a 2% lighter/grippier/more powerful/better braking bike and he will undoubtedly use it to full effect and be faster.

Probably but to what ends? If you are racing (and actually competing rather than an also ran) then it's important. If not then buying the speed to cut time off your own times is lying to yourself. If it's to gain recognition from others then that is not a healthy mindset to have. Speed is a apreachated through sensation not measurement.

If you are racing (really racing) then what bike may offer you the most speed improvement may well not be the same bike as offers someone else the most speed improvement. It will most probably also depend on the track.

If you are racing (really racing)

You may not believe this, but even the people at the back are really racing, like really really.

My experience has been that a new bike takes a certain amount of adjustment time and that the different bikes i've owned have all been faster, but not necessarily on the same trails. A light carbon hardtail ripped through a tight, techy rainforest because it accelerated out of flat turns like an ebike. The LLS replacement smashed down rocky shutes that the previous bike had to be careful on. etc.

On a given trail with the same bike i've seen some significant speed increases (20 seconds over 4 minutes) coming from slight changes in approach to certain sections without touching the bike setup. Mainly braking points.

You may not believe this, but even the people at the back are really racing, like really really.

I get that they are putting in 100% effort but at that point your position is meaningless unless you are looking for recognitions from others. It is only that you have done all you could do that is important. If you have sponsorship etc it important for exposure to be top X positions. If not then the comparison with other will only bring you pain and sorrow. This is a philosophal point but it is important non the less.

Do you wear goggles, I always ride faster with goggles.

not sure if he was unlucky but the Trek my mate hired at BPW, was an absolute POS

I get that they are putting in 100% effort but at that point your position is meaningless unless you are looking for recognitions from others

I'd argue not to the riders at the back... it's an interesting point but i don't think you could be more wrong. It actually matters less to other people as the 'others' don't even know you exist, the racers only see 3-4 people either side of them, whether at the top, middle or bottom, you only look around you, the opposite end of the spectrum isn't important.

I certainly don't get hung up on the results, but of course personally i'd like to improve, even if just 1-2 places. It's still a desire i have to get better. I absolutely get the pain and sorrow from the results side of things, when i was racing my Ducati 916 that was the only thing that mattered, the results, the podium, the upgrade in race licence and it sucked all the fun out of the sport.

Currently it's not something i worry about, i'm mostly just happy to get to the end of the weekend without seeing the inside of an ambulance 🙂

I am trying though 😀

not sure if he was unlucky but the Trek my mate hired at BPW, was an absolute POS

Yeah seen that with hire bikes before.. Hence i'd like a demo day, but i'm not sure they really exist any more with the world as it is.

I had my DH bike nicked in Morzine after 2 days there. I spent the rest of the time on various hire bikes.

Pivot with Dave wegal link. The defining factor was the forks hadn't been serviced.

Morewood DH bike. Single pivot with a link. The rear shock was too soft.

Polygon collosus. Top end suspension bits were noticably nicer than anything else but it was way too small.

Santa Cruz V10 XXL. Suspension wasn't as expensive as the rest. I was faster because

-It fitted best

- I rode it at the end of the trip. I'd been out every day for 10 days.

- I was riding with some people much faster than me and was determined to keep up.

In Whistler my g13 broke, and I hired a norco DH bike.

I was much faster on the geometron with 160/135mm travel than on the 200/200mm norco. The norco fitted and had similar quality of suspension bits. Eg charger damper roxkshox forks. Both on 29" wheels with  sticky tyres

I was fastest at the end of the trip. Again because I had met some people and was determined to keep up.

Bottom line for me.

1) Ride with people faster than me and try and keep up : )

2) Ride every day for 8 hours with ski lifts  : )

More speed is not the same as more fun…..

^ this.

Eldest_oab's Rocky Mountain is an absolute rocket ship, it's helped his speed a lot. He loves it.

But it apparently isn't as much fun to ride as his shorter travel Radon Slide 130.

I've just read the conclusion of that test.

I note the criticism of the slowest bike is as much about geometry being too long, too low, too slack...

I’ve just read the conclusion of that test.

There's tonnes of others about too, all have some bikes that are 'faster' than others... Not always the same bikes in the test though so hard to equate the full reasons as to why. You've also got the fact that even if you decide on a bike it doesn't necessarily follow it's available at the moment.

But it apparently isn’t as much fun to ride as his

G170 is awesome to ride... really good fun too.... but i always sit and wonder "would i go faster on XYZ and if so, how much"

Of course it shouldn't matter... but it doesn't mean i don't desire it.

I do need to work on weight, fitness and strength though i admit... but i'm trying.

I believe you can buy speed, be it better fit, better suspension, better tyres.
But not all riders will notice "better".

Some people I've ridden with don't know if there tyres are pumped up, let alone what pressure.
Some inexperienced riders wont know how to make the most of a bike.

A lot of us only concentrate on our riding a tiny amount of time, not even the whole trail section, let alone the whole ride.

I'm a bit OCD on stuff and have gone out to session sections to get better, its bloody hard work physically and mentally. On any normal ride that just does not happen, so expecting a 5 second faster bike to be noticed on a normal ride will be an expectation missed.

However, it may make you feel faster - and if your not being measured by a competitor or stopwatch, feel is all you have.

You can’t buy speed, in the same way as you can with adding more horsepower to a Moto, but I think you can buy parts that will help you access the speed you already have eg with a frame that suits you and the riding you do or a fork that’s tunable to the same effect, but if you don’t have the speed in the first place, a new doodad won’t give you any more once you get to the committed enthusiast/diminishing returns end of the market.

In short yes, you can buy speed.

The question for the average joe is is it worth it. I buy stuff because i like it not because it makes me fast. When i first started out i would buy as good as i could afford. Better quality suspension helped massively. I remember going from a 150mm fox32 evolution to a fit 32 at 130 and it was amazing.

as others have said having fun and stuff like that is a different question but you can definatley buy speed!

Yamaha or Honda or ducati moto gp bike, makes naff all difference if you are convinced the other bike is quicker and your not up to doing the fast corner near the limit.

You need to stop thinking kit is going to make you quicker because someone with an opinion says its better. Unless there is physically something wrong with it, it's not the thing slowing you down.

Who are you getting regularly coaching with and what do they think?