Between studenting and working I was in Cambridge for about 6 years. Commuting on a clapped out single speed deliberately chosen so I could be not sweaty; I could do my 2 mile commute in a consistent 12 minutes. That’s an average speed of 10mph, and as it’s pan flat, there’s no downhills to speak of.
somehow I was still mainly overtaking other bikes.
I could run that 2 miles faster if I really wanted to. (Corresponds to a 21min 5k time if anyone’s interested). Should runners wear helmets? More likely to trip (or be run over) than I am to fall from a bike at that sort of speed.
"I'm less confident in my proficiency on wheels, and the outcome of someone flinging open a car door right in front of me whilst doing 20mph"
The answer is don't ride in the doorzone not hope that a helmet will save you.
Most crashes are avoidable. I have had no injury accidents in half a century of touring, commuting, and riding around Glasgow and surrounds.
Route choice. If the cars are not there they can't hit you. So traffic free or quiet roads where appropriate.
Good awareness of road surfaces and what surrounding road users are doing (including mirror).
James Cracknell for example is a helmet campaigner following a serious injury he suffered from the wing mirror of an overtaking truck in Arizona.
My opinion is that not cycling east at sunrise is a better solution and using a mirror. I have had to ride off the road in the USA to avoid being hit by an overtaking RV which I was aware of because I use a mirror.
Yep. Same with skiing
Indeed.
AFAIK there's evidence for their benefit in children who have softer skulls, heavier heads (in comparison to body weight) and are more prone to head injuries.
That was then extrapolated to adults, probably because it was an opportunity to sell something.
WRT cycling, as far as I'm aware, the benefits are greater the more likely you are to fall off, so again, younger chidren, riding in a peloton and mountain biking.
I'm far from convinced that a lightweight helmet makes much appreciable difference if you're hit by a car.
Should runners wear helmets?
Do runners generally run in the middle of the road? Running into a car door at full tilt would be met with "oof," on a bike at the same speed you're off the bike, over the bars and door and landing on your head/back.
This whole discussion is moot anyway. There is nothing to say that you must wear a helmet, it's down to personal preference. We might as well be discussing wearing a leather jacket or deely-boppers.
The answer is don't ride in the doorzone not hope that a helmet will save you.
Great in theory, bold in practice when you've got Mr You Don't Even Pay Road Tax a cheese slice away from your back wheel. How many people even drive like that, let alone ride?
I'd have a significant hole in the top of my skull without a helmet from an OTB into a rock...
I still ride around on Boris bikes without one.
I don't ride on my "road" bike without one.
Horses for courses...
We have been brainwashed into thinking we need helmets on the trails?
My helmet has saved me from countless branch/head interfaces over the years.
I doubt I'd have been seriously injured but I'd have had a nasty wound many times if it weren't for my helmet.
I'd have a significant hole in the top of my skull without a helmet from an OTB into a rock...
Yep - me too. And it was in a simple relatively flat section that I have ridden countless times so a risk assessment would have told me that I didn't need a helmet.
Do runners generally run in the middle of the road?
Often. Especially in winter.
But anyway, this is making it sound like helmets protect you from other road users. They do not.
As others have posted, I always use a helmet when mountain biking, and road riding... I don't always when nipping to the shops.
Helmets can protect you from spills... if you're involved with a "collision" with a car, bus or lorry... don't go pinning your hopes on one.
Based on my commute across Cambridge this afternoon, I’d say helmet vs no helmet was about 50/50. I think helmet wearing in the city is lower due to 1) strength of numbers for cyclists, the volume makes motorists slightly more aware and creates a perception of safety - not sure if that’s warranted as the infrastructure isn’t great - and 2) lots of students - most of the profs seemed to be wearing helmets, students less so.
I wasn’t wearing a helmet. Didn’t want to mess up my hair. 😀
I stated personal choice, no judgement etc.
It's merely a discussion
I rarely/probably never wear a helmet myself when I'm riding to the shops
And yet you have started a thread about people who are mostly riding for transport which you knew would almost certainly elicit strong views and judgements from “both sides”!
In my view it’s a good sign when significant numbers of cyclists are not wearing helmets for local utilitarian riding - it means they aren’t living in fear everytime they hop on a bike, which probably means others are more likely to do the same, which in turn increases the number of active travel cyclists, makes car drivers more aware of and more expecting to see cyclists and generally makes things safer for everyone.
Its almost as if head injuries preventable by a helmet are so rare as to be insignificant.
Care to share a link to the statistics you're referencing?
All there in the cycling uk link i provided earlier and also in the BMJ link someone posted
I do worry for some of you the amount you crash and hit your heads😜
Do runners generally run in the middle of the road?
Often. Especially in winter.
With most of them clad in black.
I nearly hit one the other day, riding along, i just see thew movement rather than an actual figure. Sudden swerve and a bit of bad language. Then I spot his dog, also running alongside in the road, and not easy to see at that.
Should be a law that runners have some sort of light on them, especially if they intend to run along the road, and not use the pavement.
And even if this evidence existed, why aren't they wearing helmets for all the other activities that have a simlarly minor risk of head injuries.
I'm reasonably confident in my ability to walk down the pavement without spontaneously falling over and braining myself. I've been doing it for some time now, I'm quite practised.
I'm less confident in my proficiency on wheels, and the outcome of someone flinging open a car door right in front of me whilst doing 20mph rather than 4mph are somewhat different. Plus I don't generally walk in the middle of the road.
(Who on earth wears a cycle helmet for fashion reasons?!)
Head injury rates are similar per mile for walking and per hour for car driving.
Far morepedesyrians and car drivers get head injuries that might be mitigated by helmets.
If its evidence based then car and pedestrian helmets would save a lot more injuries. Why aren3you wearing one? If its needed for cycling its needed for car driving and walking. Thats what the evidence shows
If yiu are worried about getting hit by a door do some remedial training. Never ride in the door zone except at very low speed when filtering.
Should runners wear helmets? More likely to trip (or be run over) than I am to fall from a bike at that sort of speed.
Is the difference that a runner can stick their arms out more quickly to prevent a head/ground interaction? In some unplanned off-the-bike excursions I've experienced, the split second needed to release that death grip (or momentary hesitation/misguided belief that I can right the mistake) is a huge part of the crash.
Basically, I find handlebars slow down head protecting reflexes.
In any HSE hierarchy, PPE is always the last resort, so if we think not wearing a helmet is an issue, we need to ask if we've done all we can for the root cause.
Get out of here with your reasoned professional advice!
Not strictly related to helmet wearing, but an interesting view of the risks over all.
Should runners wear helmets? More likely to trip (or be run over) than I am to fall from a bike at that sort of speed.
Is the difference that a runner can stick their arms out more quickly to prevent a head/ground interaction? In some unplanned off-the-bike excursions I've experienced, the split second needed to release that death grip (or momentary hesitation/misguided belief that I can right the mistake) is a huge part of the crash.
Basically, I find handlebars slow down head protecting reflexes.
Do some judo and learn to breakfall. I find on the very rare occasions i get ejected i tuck and roll rather than going splar. Muscle memory or reflexes
The Cambridge Cycling Campaign is very much anti-helmet compulsion:
“Cambridge Cycling Campaign supports all cyclists as they go about their lawful business on the public road. We note that the law does not require helmets or high visibility clothing. The image of cyclists presented to the public has become so strongly skewed towards riders wearing those items that the legitimacy and status of those who do not wear them is being undermined. In order to help restore the balance the campaign reserves the right to decline to promote events or activities where helmets or high visibility clothing are required or implied.”
https://www.camcycle.org.uk/resources/helmets/
I tend to use a helmet when cycling around Cambridge but I'm not entirely sure why. It is certainly a good way to keep my head warm in the Winter, and protected from the sun in the Summer, without having to wear a hat that would just blow off.
I'm not sure how well a helmet works with the Oxbridge centre hair parting, would it not just push the hair into one's eyes?
Thats good oldpastit. Evidenced based.
Even promoting helmets puts enough folk off to make the overall population health worse.
As an aside the vast majority of mtbers i see have ill fitting helmets poorly fastened let alone commutters where a properly fitting and fastened helmet is almost never seen
Head injury rates are similar per mile for walking and per hour for car driving.
a) Again, show your working. Where are you getting these figures from? (Apologies for the previous question, I posted before reading the rest of the thread.)
b) That's a spurious comparison, it's almost as though you've cherry-picked two totally different metrics in order to go "look, these things are the same!" If you're measuring something per mile or per hour then you need to pick one and use the same in both cases otherwise it's about as relevant as head injuries annually on cruise ships.
c) What does any of that have to do with cycling?
I do a lot more mileage on foot than by bicycle. YMMV. 😁 I don't recall the last time I fell over in the street. On my ill-fated inaugural MNPR excursion I decked out twice, one OTB from hitting a rut on a downhill and the other the front wheel washed out from under me when setting off on gravel. Sure, I didn't bang my head, but my chances of having a body/floor interface is considerably higher when on wheels than on foot.
If you're asserting that mountain biking carries the exact same risk as walking to the shops then you're off your uncovered head.
Is the difference that a runner can stick their arms out more quickly to prevent a head/ground interaction? In some unplanned off-the-bike excursions I've experienced, the split second needed to release that death grip (or momentary hesitation/misguided belief that I can right the mistake) is a huge part of the crash.
The difference is that when running I'm unlikely to do a full-body 270' spin on the way to the floor. On the bike having an OTB it's pretty much inevitable. When I first came off on the ride above ☝ what broke my fall wasn't my arms, it was my rucksack.
If you're a runner and concerned about accidents, the best thing you can wear is gloves.
This is an increasingly silly discussion.
I used to live in/near Cambridge and both cycled and drove in the city. I wore a helmet when I cycled because the traffic was insane at times and drivers just do not see you. Any chance of reduction in impact to my head was welcome if I had an off.
From a driver's perspective, it was a free for all. Cyclists not wearing even remotely visible clothing and not having lights on their 20 quid third-hand ratbikes made driving after dark a nightmare and very stressful. But... bike crime was rife in the city, so I am not surprised at the lack of stuff that could be stolen at the drop of a hat.
I don't agree with compulsory helmet and high viz, but I do wish people would actually wear something that is visible and not blame drivers when they cycle into traffic wearing dark grey/black with no lights and get beeped at or hit.
And yet you have started a thread about people who are mostly riding for transport which you knew would almost certainly elicit strong views and judgements from “both sides”!
And?
Not sure what your point is, sometime I choose to wear a helmet, others not - and anyone and everyone else is free to do the same.
I made an observation in Cambridge where we now seem to live in a world where you get screamed at for being irresponsible for not wearing a lid, that the majority were not wearing lids. Ergo, started a discussion about it....
You need to practice falling off a bike from childhood if you want to improve your chances when you get knocked off. I rode BMX pretty much everyday between 10 - 17 years of age so became pretty good at falling off. When I was knocked my bike 10 years ago by a driver t boning me from a side road I rolled from bike put out hands. Only damage was a very badly broken middle finger.
Realise that doesn't have much to do with why people in Cambridge don't wear helmets! I think that will be down to them feeling they don't need to and also being surrounded by other people not wearing them. I don't wear one cycling around the New Forest but I would guess I am in a group of less that 2% but there are very few people casually cycling to go to shops, work etc,.
Cougar. The links to the data are all in those two posts. It's all evidenced.
Just go read them
More folk get head injuries walking and in cars than they do on bikes
Evidenced and factual
You need to practice falling off a bike from childhood if you want to improve your chances when you get knocked off. I rode BMX pretty much everyday between
Basically taking bike/body separation to the next level!
I fell off loads as a kid too. But then stopped cycling and didn't ride again until in my thirties. Not sure falling off as a kid helped that much. Putting yourself in situations where you regularly have to bail out does though (and helps if they're relatively low risk situations compared with skill level too).
More folk get head injuries walking and in cars than they do on bikes
I've not read the data, but is this actual total numbers or percentages?
There are a lot more people walk and drive than cycle
I used to live just outside Cambridge. One time when I was cycling back through pitch black Granchester Meadows from a lovely evening in the King Street Run, I cycled straight into a herd of sleeping cows across the path. Straight over the bars and onto the top of one of them. The herd started mooing and the cow got up, stood on my foot then shat on my bike. Had a bruise for days I did and a very smelly bike. So basically if you haven't got a helmet just aim for a cow but wear leg protection.
I was also knocked off my bike right outside the Eagle by an idiot language student on one of Mikes Bikes - the doorman gave me a free pint of Abbott Ale (back when it was good) to help ease the pain. No helmet because they hadn't been invented yet - apart from maybe the Skid Lid
Happy days.
More folk get head injuries walking and in cars than they do on bikes
It’s surprising how much your head moves in a car accident.
I went through a phase where whatever I was driving I seemed to get hit.
3 collisions in two months whilst stationary.
I hit my head pretty hard on the B pillar when an Audi failed to stop and squashed the poor courtesy Fiesta I had at the time.
So a sample of one, I’ve had more head injuries driving than cycling.
I suppose mountain bikers have had years of marketing telling us we will die horribly falling of a bike unless we buy the latest best expensive helmet
Most MTBer's I know have crashed enough that they know to need to wear a helmet, along with gloves, kneepads and other protective clothing/armour.
And TBH if I had a Pound for every branch that I'd clattered with my helmet etc.
you get screamed at for being irresponsible for not wearing a lid
To which the response is "this affects you how?"
More folk get head injuries walking and in cars than they do on bikes
Well of course they do. Many many more people walk or drive than ride bicycles on the road. The incidence of motorway collisions for cyclists is vanishingly low. Conclusion: it's perfectly safe to cycle down the M6?
At the end of the day, it's a personal choice. I'm of the mind that you only have the one head so if there's a clear and present risk that it might get ****ted then I'm going to cover it up. I'm not going to be wearing full body armour to walk to the bakery round the corner. You may disagree and that's fine, equally that's your choice.
If, hypothetically, we were going to legislate anything (like any road cycling laws are enforced anyway) I'd put 3rd party insurance and some form of hi-viz way ahead of helmets. You can do what you like regarding your own safety but should be made to be mindful of everyone else's.
Heading into Cambridge with just a soft hat - I left my helmet at the office yesterday somehow. Wish me luck. I will report back later.
Can confirm, it was fine.
Losing the fight with the potholes - there's a new batch arrived overnight with the rain. 34mm tyres are really not enough with my level of skill.
"Great in theory, bold in practice when you've got Mr You Don't Even Pay Road Tax a cheese slice away from your back wheel. How many people even drive like that, let alone ride?"
Works for me. A mirror helps as you can watch what following traffic are doing. If they need to wait they need to wait. No different from cars needing wait to overtake on narrow rural roads. I would rather deal with the drivers I can see than risk the one I can't opening his door into my path.
Anyone who regularly rides within a door width of parked cars will eventually get doored.
Maybe it depends on where you ride but around Glasgow I have never had a driver a cheese slice away from my wheel because I was taking the lane.
Only two times I have had issues was in the USA. Some heavy horn. One ironically when I let him pass after the shoulder reappeared had a bike on a rack on his car. Malibu.
I agree with the majority, I think. Hiring a city bike is an on a whim scenario so I won't wear a helmet, as I'm using it as a form of transport and pootling around, and wasn't planning on going for a ride.
Always used to wear a helmet when commuting by bike and always wear one on the MTB.
Broke my first ever helmet cycling to work and lowsiding it on a patch of ice. Basically went sideways and the side of my helmet/head was the first thing to hit the ground. Only other time was when MTBing and going OTB, again the helmet did the job.
Was rear ended by a car whilst waiting at a roundabout, went OTB but managed to not land on my head.
Ultimately I'm glad it's a personal choice, unlike Australia. Let's be honest if a car is running over my head, a helmet isn't going to help much I'd imagine.
I'm of the mind that you only have the one head so if there's a clear and present risk that it might get ****ted then I'm going to cover it up.
So are you going to start wearing your helmet when walking and driving ? The risks are of the same level of magnitude.
Are you going to wear a neck brace and full body armour just in case?
So are you going to start wearing your helmet when walking and driving ? The risks are of the same level of magnitude.
I've never damaged my head, or broken any bones, in 54 years of walking, nor in 36 years of driving.
I have sacrificed 3 helmets and broken bones while riding a bike in the last 20 years. I'll do my own risk assessment based on my own experience. I won't criticise people who come to different conclusions.
some form of hi-viz way ahead of helmets. You can do what you like regarding your own safety but should be made to be mindful of everyone else's.
Hi-vis is no good if people don't take the time to look and concentrate, how do we legislate for that?
So are you going to start wearing your helmet when walking and driving ? The risks are of the same level of magnitude.
Are you going to wear a neck brace and full body armour just in case?
You keep banging the same drum over and over Jeremy
I was in the white truck, zero injuries, I've never banged my head in a car. There were multiple head injuries in the little Peugeot, but then they decided to come round a wet corner sideways at 70mph. It was a freak incident
If I was driving a Caterham (spiritedly) I might choose to wear a motorbike helmet. If I was driving it to the shops I probably wouldn't.
If I was going to the Alps, I might wear body armour and a neck brace.
Your dogged one line stance is as blinkered as the 'must wear a helmet at all times' brigade
Imbanging the drum for valid data showing that the emphasis on utility cyclists wearing helmets is displaced and daft. The risks to cyclists are similar to pedestrians and car drivers but only one of the three is told they must wear ppe
Anecdotes do not trump data
Evidence based practice
The thing about cycling in Cambridge is that a sizeable proportion of resident drivers are also cyclists, and all of them encounter cyclist every day. As a result it feels pretty safe to cycle around here .
There are also lots of 20mph zones now, and some quite good cycle paths. The Chisholm way bridge over the Cam gets you across the city without any need to encounter cars.
That still leaves hazards like hidden pot holes, inebriation and drivers from elsewhere (the worst).
