I was driving through Cambridge the other day. Obviously it's a big cycling city.
One observation I made that, at a guess, maybe as few as 25% of riders were wearing helmets.
Is this generally a thing in cycling cities?
I'd imagine the chance of being clipped by a car and hitting the deck is quite high?
I'm all for personal choice, so not judging
Thoughts, discuss...?
Look to the Netherlands. No one wears helmets. There is no huge epidemic of head injuries. Why do car drivers not wear them? More car drivers get head injuries. Why don't you wear a full set of body armour and a neck brace?
It's Cambridge. They are like that there.
Previously when there was a helmet thread here I kept a tally of helmet-less to helmeted riders on my commute home from central London through SW London one night, the helmet-less were by far in the majority.
Yup. And no epidemic of head injuries.
Its almost as if head injuries preventable by a helmet are so rare as to be insignificant.
One of the worst head injury cases i looked adter had been wearing a helmet. He had a diffuse axon injury the type helmets may well make worse
Is this generally a thing in cycling cities?
Yes. Last year I did a random sample of 50 in Copenhagen and found about 40% wearing helmets. I was surprised it was that high, but it did include kids who were pretty much all wearing helmets.
I'd imagine the chance of being clipped by a car and hitting the deck is quite high
. . . and, critically, then smacking your head on the ground. I imagine it is pretty low.
Personally I always wear a helmet when MTBing because of the relatively high chance of something going wrong where there are rocks and trees, and on the road because of the consistent high speeds. And ditto skiing. But for city biking, the speed and perceived risk is much lower so I am comfortable with no helmet - that’s the case in London as much as Cambridge, Rome and Scandinavia.
In Naples however - definitely use a helmet.
Meh, it’s a strange mindset. I once nearly flattened a pedestrian who didn’t look before crossing. He was adamant I should be wearing a crash helmet. Go figure?
No collision, I stopped in time.
Wearing special clothing to pop to the shops is one of the things that puts people off push bikes.
Wearing special clothing to pop to the shops is one of the things that puts people off push bikes
I'd guess that for the majority it's probably mostly the physical effort required that's the biggest factor in why they don't pop to the shops on a bike. And unless you have s special bike set up for loading with luggage etc, or have already gone to additional effort to make that possible on your bike, you're limited to how much you can carry swinging on the handle bars or jam in a back pack.
Personally I always wear a helmet when MTBing because of the relatively high chance of something going wrong where there are rocks and trees, and on the road because of the consistent high speeds. And ditto skiing. But for city biking, the speed and perceived risk is much lower so I am comfortable with no helmet - that’s the case in London as much as Cambridge, Rome and Scandinavia.
Same here.
I use Lime / Santander bikes a lot in London, I'm not going to be carrying a helmet around with me on the off-chance I fancy a quick ride to the station. Utility / city cycling needs to be presented in that normal clothes, no helmet manner. It's just an upwardly mobile pedestrian.
Helmets, hi-vis, lycra are all massively off-putting for actually normalising cycling as a simple means of transport.
Look to the Netherlands. No one wears helmets. There is no huge epidemic of head injuries. Why do car drivers not wear them? More car drivers get head injuries. Why don't you wear a full set of body armour and a neck brace?
I'm fully aware of your stance on helmets and if you'll note, I stated personal choice, no judgement etc.
It's merely a discussion
I rarely/probably never wear a helmet myself when I'm riding to the shops
Most of the cycling you’re talking about here is taking place at lowish speeds often on cycle specific infrastructure (which is what we should be building). You can certainly get away without a helmet in those circumstances.
There’s no way I’d ride without one at 15-20mph on a road shared with car drivers who hate me because I’m not riding in the gutter, or at any speed down a rocky trail because I’m useless and will inevitably end up going over the handlebars.
Both times I’ve been hit hard by vehicles my head hit the ground with a smack forceful enough to crack the helmet, saving me from more serious injury. I’m pretty sure anyone who’s had a proper crash feels safer wearing one than not.
im always amazed at the ferocity of the no-need-helmet section.
I suppose mountain bikers have had years of marketing telling us we will die horribly falling of a bike unless we buy the latest best expensive helmet
Normal folk meanwhile have not been subject to this brain washing so use common sense ?
I’m pretty sure anyone who’s had a proper crash feels safer wearing one than not.
Thus take more risks ?
Also be put more at risk by car drivers?
Thus take more risks ?
What evidence you you have for that?
Also be put more at risk by car drivers?
So motorists think « oh he’s got a helmet, I won’t be so careful trying to avoid him »?
Nonsense.
I suppose mountain bikers have had years of marketing . . . Normal folk meanwhile have not been subject to this brain washing so use common sense ?
What are you actually saying here? We have been brainwashed into thinking we need helmets on the trails?
Risk compensation. A well known psychological phenomenon.
J R
Risk compensation both first and third party is real and has been observed in studies. Its not controversial in tbe slightest
With car drivers there is another effect as well. No helmet you are a person. With a helmet you are seen as a lycra lout ie an outsider.
Its not concious decisions. Its a subconscious effect. Its real and it happens.
This is a good summary of the evidence with references.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/briefing/cycle-helmets
Risk compensatio
Its real and it happens.
Quote the evidence please TJ - don’t just assert it supports you. Often studies apply one specific context but can’t be extrapolated to others.
I was surprised it was that high, but it did include kids who were pretty much all wearing helmets.
There are some government guidelines in most of the Nordics about use of helmets in the young. Under 12 IIRC.
I've been stopped by the police half a dozen times over the ~20 i've been here and asked why i'm not wearing a helmet...
Maybe it says something about the infrastructure in Cambridge, that people are happy to bimble about without feeling the need to wear armour.
My mate did a study on it at Uni. helmet = more closer passes by car than no helmet. When he told me I thought it was bonkers too. He was one of those annoying people who could prove anything with facts.
When I go cycling, I wear a helmet. When I use my Dutch bike round town, I don’t. Only tourists had lids when I toured in Holland.
Ben Goldacre and David Spiegelhalter have had a good look at the evidence for helmets. Conclusion? Their direct benefits are too modest to capture.
https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f3817.long
Were the men long haired to look like women and did they also carry convincing dolls that looked like real babies?
Along with no helmet, supposed to make more drivers give more passing space.
That’s Prof Ian Walker’s research. I’ll see if I can find the link later…
We have been brainwashed into thinking we need helmets on the trails?
Yep. Same with skiing
Yes statistically people will die horribly in both sports if they have a crash horribly and bump their head, but I bet statistically the chance is so low that it’s not worth the mitigation we put in place.
However if it makes people feel safer….
Off-road: helmet, always. I ride, therefore I'll crash. I've had a few helmets protect from face abrasions/ear rippage, so I'm happy to wear one.
On-Road: 'Fast' road riding, yes. Speed = more chance of a spill. Commuting, yes. It's a useful place for a light to be mounted at the very least. Popping to the shops/leisure pootle, nah.
Horses for courses.
I wear a helenet riding my bike in the back garden.
But I'm exposing myself to the risk of falling backwards off my bike and hitting my head on something by trying to hop from obstacle to obstacle on the back wheel.
A few years ago I've fell off the back without a helmet and hit my head on the concrete during a five minute "test" ride, not made that mistake again.
I don't wear one on a short lunch time ride about though.
Any studies on BMX street riders and helmets and head injuries? Always amazes me so many of them don't wear helmets.
As always these threads repeat themselves.
A thing to note is 'cycling city' is a bit circular. The city centre is not well suited to cars. The primary driver for bike transport is the collegiate university set up where lectures are held in university buildings but tutorials in college, so students need to get across the city, sometimes several miles, between scheduled classes. The sheer weight of cyclists means cars have to wait behind big groups of cyclists at each set of lights. Then infrastructure has caught up to some degree - 20 mph speed limits and cycle infrastructure on and off road, at traffic lights and now a couple of roundabouts, and that slows cars down more. So cars in the central area do have to share the space with cyclists, and do generally drive slowly. Many car drivers don't like it, see the rhetoric about Milton Rd roundabout. But it's the number of cyclists that means cars are driving more slowly and more aware of cyclists. I don't know what the statistics are on cyclist / car incidents compared to other cities, as a rate rather than absolute number.
I see more crashes of cyclists with pedestrians, which does put the onus on the cyclist to be insured (another favourite on this forum 😘)
My mate did a study on it at Uni. helmet = more closer passes by car than no helmet. When he told me I thought it was bonkers too. He was one of those annoying people who could prove anything with facts.
Correlation is not causation. Which other variables did he eliminate before drawing conclusions? Speed? Clothing? Road type? Time of day? Location?
I’ve had 4 accidents/incidents on the road in which I hit the ground. In 3 of those the helmet was damaged and in one of those, the helmet was cracked. The latter was a van wing mirror hitting the back of my head.
As for the psychological sense of security leading to a decrease in risk mitigation - yes it’s a proven fact, but this ignores what happens over time. Over time, the application of PPE becomes normalised and behaviour returns to normal. In essence, you forget that you’re wearing it.
Helmets do stop minor injuries, but only expensive helmets reduce concussions and even then it’s minimal. I think the last study stated 17% with the latest MIPS helmets and upto 30% with the latest MIPS and wave cell stuff?
Either way, I’ll take those odds and besides, where would I put my headlight if not for a helmet 🙂
Eldest cycled when he was in Cambridge. He wore a helmet out of habit as that what he's always done while riding, but he was very much the exception.
I always felt Cambridge is a proper odd example. The cycle infrastructure in the city is not great, for every mum or dad pedalling slowly with two kids in their cargo bike there are two students haring around as they are late for something. If it is safer for cycling it's due to the sheer volume of cyclists, and the fear you feel as a driver trying to avoid them - both of which are "good things" in my opinion.
If I'm out on my mountain bike I wear a helmet. I've hit my head hard enough in a couple of crashes to see stars (but in all honesty it's those low hanging branches that get me all the time), and my helmet's saved me from many a sore one. On my road bike, riding in rural Stirlingshire, I wear a helmet more because it's just part of the kit than any illusion that it's going to save me from some skunk addled kid screaming down a country lane towards me on the wrong side of the road.
However, I commute by bus into Glasgow city centre each day, then usually get the subway out to the university where I work in the west end of the city. Once the clocks change and it's nicer weather, and if there's one available, I'll happily pop onto a Next Bike as there's a virtually traffic free route from the city to my lab. It does feel a bit weird riding without a helmet, but I'm definitely one of those helmetless city cyclists!
🙂
I’m pretty sure anyone who’s had a proper crash feels safer wearing one than not.
25mph to zero mph, head onto rock, broken jaw, concussion.
This was wearing a normal helmet (Fox Flux I think)
Whether the helmet saved any further damage, I have no idea, but I reckon had I been wearing something that covered my ears (around the point of impact) it might have saved some of the damage suffered.
For most MTB I now wear a Fox Dropframe, sometimes a full face, dependant on where I'm going.
Gravel bike, or if I'm just going for an XC bimble I'll wear the normal Speedframe
Nipping to the shops, or along the cycle path to the gym I'll wear nothing (on my head)
To echo something I said in the last helmet thread I was involved in - each ride is a risk assessment. Obviously not a written one, but definitely a mental one to some degree
Any studies on BMX street riders and helmets and head injuries? Always amazes me so many of them don't wear helmets.
Closer to the ground and lower speed will mean the potential force of impact will be much lower. I’d also wager that aspects of the bike and body will come into contact before the head and ground, again lowering the energy. This also seems to be the case with most of my MTB falls - I had some time to anticipate my impending doom and do something about it or my bars/forks take the initial impact and I then take the remainder as a rag doll. On the road it’s often a sudden and unexpected stop (car/person) or slip (ice/diesel) front wheel washout and the first thing that hits the ground is your entire side followed by your head.
Wearing special clothing to pop to the shops is one of the things that puts people off push bikes.
Well, that's plainly nonsense. If you don't want to "wear special clothing" there's nothing to stop you from cycling to the shop in your underpants.
(... that is to say, wearing underpants. I'm not suggesting that your underpants have a shop in them.)
Two thoughts spring to mind.
In any HSE hierarchy, PPE is always the last resort, so if we think not wearing a helmet is an issue, we need to ask if we've done all we can for the root cause.
I'd probably feel happier not wearing a helmet cycling through Cambridge than I used to commuting through Nottingham. It's pretty hard to drive Cambridge and not be aware of cyclists and other road users being aware is possibly one of the biggest contributing factors to your safety.
Nipping to the shops, or along the cycle path to the gym I'll wear nothing
That's identified the naked cyclist that used to be spotted around Matlock and Bakewell a few years back.....
Most of the cycling you’re talking about here is taking place at lowish speeds often on cycle specific infrastructure (which is what we should be building). You can certainly get away without a helmet in those circumstances.
There’s no way I’d ride without one at 15-20mph on a road shared with car drivers who hate me because I’m not riding in the gutter, or at any speed down a rocky trail because I’m useless and will inevitably end up going over the handlebars.
Pretty much my thoughts.
Riding in traffic or chucking it downhill in (say) a trail centre I'll wear a lid. Pootling along a towpath or blowing it out of my arse up a fire road in July, the helmet's getting clipped to something other than my head.
Right tool for the job, and all that.
That's identified the naked cyclist that used to be spotted around Matlock and Bakewell a few years back.....
Ah good old Noel. Not seen him for a while, don't know if he's still with us. Used to work in the petrol station at Darley
Much the same in Oxford what with all the students and that, probably more risky dodging the illegal electric deliveroo type riders zooming about than worrying about cars for the most part.
Sometimes I don't wear a helemt, and I've been lectured by other people who are happily standing there in their open face polysterene hat with the strap uselessly dangling below their chin as if they've somehow donned a forcefield that will protect them from all injuries. I mean at least where it properly, but even then I don't understand how some people wildly overstate the benefits despite the complete lack of evidence demonstrating their effectiveness in real world situations. And even if this evidence existed, why aren't they wearing helmets for all the other activities that have a simlarly minor risk of head injuries.
It's just a cultural/ fashion thing most of the time.
Can someone let me know when this thread turns up something new in the Helmet Debate
And even if this evidence existed, why aren't they wearing helmets for all the other activities that have a simlarly minor risk of head injuries.
I'm reasonably confident in my ability to walk down the pavement without spontaneously falling over and braining myself. I've been doing it for some time now, I'm quite practised.
I'm less confident in my proficiency on wheels, and the outcome of someone flinging open a car door right in front of me whilst doing 20mph rather than 4mph are somewhat different. Plus I don't generally walk in the middle of the road.
(Who on earth wears a cycle helmet for fashion reasons?!)
