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Stop freewheeling!
What about loosing the 54t and putting in a 36t.
Not sure 54t is necessary for road.
It's not even necessary for MTB. the £1800 Roval CLX wheels only use 18t.
What about loosing the 54t and putting in a 36t.
Yeah may be nicer, see what I can do with what I have first - waiting for new springs and spacer. Regret not getting novatechs and saving $200 lol.
Novatech are in no way comparable with DT.
Suspect you'd easily find someone to swap your star ratchets for slower engagement/less noisy ones.
That wheel slows down pretty quickly.
Yeah may be nicer, see what I can do with what I have first – waiting for new springs and spacer. Regret not getting novatechs and saving $200 lol.
@thisisnotaspoon Did you say get Novatechs??
That wheel slows down pretty quickly.
DT hubs are relatively high drag plus there's a bit of rotor rub hoho.
Novatech are in no way comparable with DT.
Yeah compared to DT350 they're lighter, cheaper, sound better, are less draggy, have anti-bite tech on the freehubs, no springs getting wedged anywhere.. From what I can tell people say here the seal are good too. DT a bit overhyped perhaps?
DT hubs are relatively high drag plus there’s a bit of rotor rub hoho.
My Superstar Road2 hub seems to just go on spinning forever. No rotors though, just nice simple rim brakes.
In my experience DTs are less draggy than alternatives (particularly 240s right enough).
Not seen any rotor drag on any of mine, never had any problem with springs nor ratchets, outlast everything else I've ever had and never had excessive bite issues on free hubs. YMMV.
My oldest are about 15yrs old and only needed one bearing swap.
Seen PLENTY threads and heard from shop mechanics about durability issues on Novatech hubs and some brands such as Santa Cruz stopped speccing them due to warranty problems (and use DTs entry level 370s instead). Heard from a Focus dealer that they have to replace freehubs very regularly on the OEM Novatechs
My exact advice was get novatecs or powerway hubs and spend the money on the rims (specifically when you were looking at ebay bargains of dubious provenance) as IME hubs are generally much of a muchness.
I'm sure the DT would last a lot longer than the bearings in the Novatec's. But then apart form a Hope hub shell I've never killed a hub in a way that wasn't a cheap and simple fix. So "quality" is all relative.
Chris King - Concratulations, you own a £500 hub set that will last at least 10 years without any problems, but will be obsolesced in 5 years by 3mm wider road-micro-boost spacing.
DT - expensive and noisy
Hope - possibly overpriced compared to similar hubs from the far east, but awesome colours and when parts do wear out they're available, generally cheap and a cinch to replace.
Novatec/bitex/powerway - available in any colour you like as long as it's black. And at ~1/3 the price of DT and Hope you would need to be doing some serious mileage* to be getting through hub internals quickly enough to make the DT's look attractive.
*arguably disk brakes tip the balance in favour of DT a bit, with rim brakes there really wasn't much point in a hub that would outlast a rim and cost multiples of the price, even the poverty spec unsealed shimano hubs would last till the rim was toast.
In my experience DTs are less draggy than alternatives (particularly 240s right enough).
I think the 54t is known to be draggier, the others prob on par with other systems, but we're talking marginal differences here regardless.
@thisisnotaspoon I remember! We'll see if I regret not taking your advice, that said, my no1 pick Hope RS4 was not avail from Farsports and it won't be hard to sell the DT350 hub if I upgrade to them.
The worst part about Novatechs are lack of support, shitty resale value and some accounts of them exploding into bits - I'd always pay £80 extra for Hopes, if something goes wrong they make it right. Only have 1 bike too, so I want perfection ;p
This is getting silly.
DT aren't overhyped. 350 hubs are pretty much the benchmark for value/ performance/durability. If you want to spend less, get a 370 but deal with the fact that if you're pushing high wattage you'll likely be replacing pawls a couple of time a year (road likely fine as you're not shock loading)
Drag may be lower as they're less well sealed than 350/240 and you can run silly light chain lube as pawl oil.
Bringing rotor rub in as a negative for a hub is surely clutching at straws.
If you're that set on a cheap pawl solution.. Just retro fit your current 350 with a 370 drive ring and driver body. Or swap a 370 hub in so you don't have to spend more money on different spokes?
DTs def are overhyped if you care at all about sound! I agree value is decent, 350s are £104 for a rear straight pull disc on here.
370 freehub is not a bad idea, but do the seals match up perfectly?
Nobody said rotor rub was a negative, that's just me not truing a fresh rotor that came un-true out of the box perfectly yet.
Yes this is silly, but we're all quarantined or something so..
you'd need to pull the hub body seal off the 350 and use the 370 driver seal. It works in reverse as long as you're not pressure washing 😉
I'll try it later once 'home school' is out.
Need those special tools though, which would take 2 months to get here from china or cost £100 if you buy em locally :S
Guess I could ask my LBS! Oh wait.
I just pulled the stars out of a 350 road hub but even with the pawls removed from a 370 driver it wont fit inside the star drive ring without pulling the drive ring out so I can't push the driver all the way home onto the 350's shell seal
Not getting into pulling drive rings just now 🙁
Theres hack vids of people going from 370 spec to 350 spec, but probably not the other way round as remember, the star ratchets are the upgrade 😉
Thanks for checking, from what I can tell the seals are the same, but alas no cheap way to get the tools right now, unless I buy them and return them lol. Also need the drive ring..
New freehub £30
New drive ring £40?
Ratchet tool £40
Pawl ring tool £40
Pawl freehub has maybe half the engagement of the 54t ratchet, not that it matters that much for road.
Pawl freehub has maybe half the engagement of the 54t ratchet, not that it matters that much for road
If engagement really doesn't matter, why don't you get a set of 18t drive rings and try that, the least resistance of all the options (18/36/54), they are usually dirt cheap and by the sounds of it, most importantly almost silent!
Regarding the noise, my dt240s isn't a consistent sound, do I care? Not at all, such a reliable hub and easy to work in, I would take ring drive over any Pawl hub, my background is trials so the more surface area of contact the better, I ran Chris King on my trials bike for years!
If there's rotor rub, is that not causing the variation in sound that you can hear? if you take the calliper/disc off, is it still there?
The tools are £10 each. There are eBay sellers with UK stock.
Drive ring is £16 (think this is the right one) https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/dt-swiss-external-screw-thread-ring-nut-for-3pawl-hubs-m34-x-1mm-hbdt826/ . Even the 240 drive ring is only £16.
Freehub is £35 https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/hub-spares/dt-swiss-3pawl-freehub-body-aluminium-shimano-11speed-road/
Selling the removed bits would more than cover the cost of replacement parts.
I'd swap my 18t for your 54t if you wanted to try that approach. 😀
The tools are £10 each. There are eBay sellers with UK stock.
Don't see any! 18T is ofc cheaper to get, but then you have uneven spring tension causing BRRRbrrr-ing again.
do I care? Not at all
Do you use it on a road carbon rim aero bike? 😉
@Daffy no difference, used to have no rub.
I got this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333517470776. Seemed to be from UK stock. Didn't have the normal China post labels and while not a quick delivery at just over a week that shouldn't be surprising as I ordered it when the current mess was kicking off.
Thanks, unfortunately they don't ship to Germany which is why I didn't see it. Anyways see how it does with new springs first.
Don’t see any! 18T is ofc cheaper to get, but then you have uneven spring tension causing BRRRbrrr-ing again.
do I care? Not at all
Do you use it on a road carbon rim aero bike?
You are right, I don't use it on a road bike.
With regards to the 18t, its ALOT quieter than any of the other drive rings to the point where silencing it with abit more grease is possible.
This is getting silly.
DT aren’t overhyped.
I didn't say they were over hyped, I said they were expensive.
And the issues with pawls overstated. Actually running them into the ground takes riding in filthy conditions and a lot of miles. Followed by a quick swizz of WD40 to clean them and a wipe of grease and they're good for another year. And if they're completely knackered then a set of Hope pawl springs is £3, or pawls + springs £12.
That and every DT hub I've tried sounds like one of these which is what actually puts me off:
Pawls are totally fine indeed. Never had any issue with them breaking or with installation on my Hope hubs.
LOL accurate description of the 54T ratchet 🤣
As others have said, swap someone for 18T (I have some unused ones if you want) and lube them appropriately - it'll be quieter than alternatives. Certainly makes more sense than paying money to downgrade your hub.
Pawl freehub has maybe half the engagement of the 54t ratchet, not that it matters that much for road.
i can confirm that the 3 pawl system has a continuous buzz. Ive got dt swiss 360 hubs on my SLR1 aero wheel set.
Nice sound.
maybe find out if this is still for sale ? ( the joke is that this hub was advertised on the classifieds weekly for about 2 years)
I want some buzzin, enough for people to hear and get out the way, but i want it to be even, and i wasnt aware how much carbon wheels would amplify the noise (plus the higher speed on roadbikes) so now I'm thinking a bit less is more.
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/video-industry-nine-adds-volume-adjustment-knob-to-its-hubs.html
Saw this. Thought. Of you.
Got new springs + spacer, here're the results: https://streamable.com/vl15m (btw, the springs require 3.6-3.9 N to fully collapse).
Still sounds like bees from hell, but it's a bit better than before and there's less drag. What sounds like disc rub is actually not. Might add some more grease but overall I can live with it now.
In retrospect should have gotten the 18 or 36T ratchet (and if they were avail, Hope RS4 hubs).
(edit: doh.. repost)
what about these new i9 hubs? Turn them down to 1 😉
Got nOthing on my DT350 54T ratchet with CARBON FIBER AMPLIFICATION TECH!!
https://streamable.com/vl15m https://streamable.com/vl15m https://streamable.com/vl15m
bloody forurm..
Tried an edit and got signed out....lost it all
Anywho, I wonder what effect there is on noise from an out of balance wheel/tire combo. Pros balance their wheels and some will priortise out of vertically true for weight balanced and pefect rotation, or use weights like car wheels and stick on weights.
With old drying sealant it can have a significant effect on the wheels rotation. As much as making the bike lurch up and down when on roads - extreme example, but could just a valve stem be enough to make the wheel accell/decell during rotation and contribute to this noise imbalance?
Would be more noticeable without a rider sat on it.
If you want a 36T ratchet I'll happily do you a swap, pretty sure I have an almost-new 36T set in my hardtail
I balanced the wheel with blue tack and it made no difference (vibrations went away but not the noise), I have however ordered golf club balancing weights to balance it..
Here's one guy who silenced his DT hub by literally filling it with grease
..what really quiets the hub down is grease one the sides of the ratchets not in between the ratchet surfaces (where it quickly gets rubbed off). The grease on the sides stay put and act as dampers presumably.
So where can I order wave springs??
I purchased a secondhand wheelset for my ss mtb. They are dmr revolvers or something. They are near silent. It’s very enjoyable to coast in silence with only the tyre noise for company.
BTW springs needs to be approx max 25.5 mm OD and minimum 18.2 mm ID, they have 4.15 mm free space to along the axis of the axle (so each springs needs to be more than 2.1 mm tall) and need to exert about 2.6 N of force each on the pawls when locked together. The disc springs I've found are either too short or exert 10 times more force than that - i.e. they're too stiff and tall.
Ordered the DT 370 3 pawl hub as it sounds a lot nicer and more even and spins with less drag from what I've seen - lower engagement not a big deal for road use (24 POE I've read).
I can borrow the tools required, otherwise it's £38 for the freehub £15 for the drive ring and £5 for the spacer you need, not cheap but guess I can sell the old freehub an ratchet.
Problem solved, got the wheel rebuilt with the Newmen Fade hub, shop reused spokes and brass nipples and total cost after selling the old hub was £160.
Might add a bit more grease to it to turn down the volume, but none of the extreme oscillating sound the DT had, lower weight and 33 POE.
think less, ride more
This. Sounds like OCD to me.
Not a criticism. I'm exactly the same with my bike e.g. completely destroyed a perfectly good Giant dropper post after disassembling it to try and fix a slight bit of wobble that really wasn't an issue.