[Closed] BikePark Wales etiquette (sorry done to death but ..)

A great rider on a blue trail, life’s full of ****wits.

Dont get me wrong I love the blues and a fast, solid run is the best but does it hurt to say thanks when people give you it by pulling up quick?

Why rant about it on here rather than take it up with him at the time?

Bestowed upon him was manhood laughable smallness. That’s what I always tell myself.

Just put it out of your mind, not worthy of your brain  power.

Yeah generally shrug it off on my own just a shame when daughter has to see it first hand on her first day at a trail centre.

Meh never mind, kind of cements my growing disinterest of trail centres anyway ... overused and a bit too much self importance in the air.

I'd always say thanks but... doesn't sound like the best place to pull up?

What northwind said. Rider will have seen you, taken action to not hit you/worked out what you were doing, whilst concentrating on getting round the berm.

Etiquette should be that they have a bell. "Ding ding! Get out the way!"

There's pillocks wherever you go - don't make one the abiding memory of your first trail centre visit with your daughter fergawdssake!

Sadly the place attracts a lot of that type of rider, the level of trail etiquette has been getting gradually worse there since it opened.

Use it as a reason to teach your daughter the correct way to deal with that situation from both viewpoints, the slower rider and the faster.  Whatever you do don't let it put her off!

Sadly the place attracts a lot of that type of rider, the level of trail etiquette has been getting gradually worse there since it opened.

Having ridden there a few times & then at Antur for the first time recently I must saw Antur seemed waaay more chilled out - with way less ego.

If my daughter was in front of me I'd be keeping the rider behind and using me as a shield to protect her.  I'd probably pee the rider off but my daughter means a lot more to me than a stranger does.

Having confronted a couple of people like this (and one particular bell end at cannock) im forming the view that some people just aren't aware they are being rude, they just simply don't know how to behave and see dangerously barging past as part of it. Maybe they have watched a few too many mega avalanche videos and believe that is the norm.

Not too sure what the fuss is about- on the rare occasions I get to overtake another rider I'll normally try to thank them, but there's the odd time I won't, concentrating, scared I'll bite my tongue off or something, or puzzling why the rider stopped in the middle of a berm rather than after the exit.

And unless the  guy was buzzing your daughter's wheel, I don't see the problem- it's easier to overtake from closer than further back, and, without trying to sound horrible, if your daughter panicked and nearly put herself into a bush, I don't see how that's the other persons fault- he didn't try to force himself past, and she could perhaps have picked a better spot to pull over.

I'm really struggling too see the cause of the rant.

I’m really struggling too see the cause of the rant.

Me too, he is probably a great bloke with great manners just had his mind elsewhere, like on the trail, maybe he thought you had stopped to look at the view and may be loads quicker than him, who knows.  Perhaps he is incredibly shy, or even mute?

.. my daughter means a lot more to me than a stranger does.

What a nice man 🙂

It's annoying, I don't think there's ever been a set of rules laid down, Whistler has some, I forget most of them, but the most practical used to be 'Green and Blue trails, rider in front has right of way, higher grade trails slower riders should pull over when caught' but as ever, 'don't be a dick' is the overriding rule.

Strava doesn't help, too many riders thinking they're 'on a run' get all arsey when they can't come to terms with the fact it's not a closed race track (plus no one else giving a flying fig about their PB) GoPros not much better when Dave the Dickhead from Daventry is down BPW for the weekend and wants to make a killer edit to bore his mates back home.

Being boringly average, I'm rarely caught, but when I am, I pull over where practical, I can only recall one arsehole in 15 years who was trying to push me to the point of actually taping my back tyre, I stopped mid-trail and we had a free exchange of ideas, I also rarely catch people, if I do I'm happy to gap them if they don't want to pull over, and catch them again, it's a fun game, if they 'kick' well, everyone likes a friendly race eh? 'met' one of my Strava buddies that way, and if they pull over I always say thanks.

I'm in the 'not a big issue' camp. It'd be nice if they were more polite and nice if everybody followed the unwritten rules but no harm done. Its one of the very few places you can ride flat out so I'd give the benefit of the doubt to them focusing on riding.

Likewise, if I hear someone coming up behind then I pull over somewhere suitable to let them past, and if I'm with a mate I call for him to stop too. I don't expect any thanks or acknowledgement from the faster rider, my expectation is that at anything uplifted there'll be some quicker people about and while it's not a race, it is a place for going fast if you want to.

https://www.bikeparkwales.com/rider-conduct

• Be respectful and aware of other riders varying skill levels, relax and have fun.
• Do not stop on the trail. Pull off the trail in a safe place if you need to stop for any reason.
• When entering a trail or starting downhill, you must look uphill and give way to other riders coming down the trail.

When your kids are learning and you don't want them to be put off or have a bad experience (or worse) its very easy to lose perspective and become "protective dad". I think most dads are a bit guilty of this from time to time - i certainly am.

riding behind someone significantly slower sucks. riding with someone buzzing your wheel when you are at your personal limit sucks. (talking strangers here, train with mates is different) Pulling over as soon as practical is mutually beneficial to both parties, most people seem to realise this. A smile or a thanks or a wave is nice, but no need to do the dick multiplier and sink to (or below) someones level if they don't.

Off to Morzine soon, lots of quick guys on DH bikes, seems the rule there is a little back wheel skid to announce your presence, and an almost imperceptible nod or finger wave as they pass.

Maybe he/she was a mute...

riding behind someone significantly slower sucks

Don't ride behind them then. Stop, wait give them a gap, then crack on.

Have you all forgotten what it's like to be a beginner? Going somewhere like BPW is massively intimidating for someone who's new to the sport without them feeling like they're being bullied off the track. It's not race track, chill out & stop being a dick.

(That's not aimed at you in particular @ayjaydoubleyou just using your comment)
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BPW much nicer in the winter when hardly anyone is around

selective quoting certainly makes me seem like a dick* - I had intended my first 3 sentences to be read together:

riding behind someone significantly slower sucks. riding with someone buzzing your wheel when you are at your personal limit sucks.  Pulling over as soon as practical is mutually beneficial to both parties

*I know you've said it wasn't aimed at me. I also do the wait for a gap to form more often than passing, just think its less hassle for both parties.

I do remember my first time at BPW, riding pretty darn slow on an xc-ish hardtail. And 2 years before that, my first time around swinley on a halfords special. I was nice to people and they were nice to me. I was minorly inconvenienced by pulling over, and they were minorly slowed down while I did so. A great time was, I hope, had by all.

Most of this talk of big egos and trail centre warriors seems to have passed me by.

Won't let me edit - I also tend to do the stop and wait for a gap to form more often than passing, especially if I know the trail and therefore where the next fire road or climb is. less hassle for both parties

 I also tend to do the stop and wait for a gap to form more often than passing

I think most of us do. Makes you feel good having a little grumble about how long you have to wait before you won't catch the slowies up 🙂

"Off to Morzine soon, lots of quick guys on DH bikes, seems the rule there is a little back wheel skid to announce your presence, and an almost imperceptible nod or finger wave as they pass."

Seems reasonable.

As does

"I also tend to do the stop and wait for a gap to form more often than passing," Which is what i do sometimes do. Depends on the rider in front and the vibe they are giving off.

To be honest the place seems to attract them.  I got some abuse from an absolute ignoramus a few years ago on the run to the uplift.  I was hurtling along the trail and came to one of the rollers/jumps and a middle aged lady (not that her sex or age should matter) had stopped mid trail.  I wound anchors on and managed to stop...just some bloke rolled up behind me and started giving me a load of shit.  Didn’t want to hear my explanation, so I gave him an absolute gob full and he stfu!

Trouble is the range of ability at the place is so vast as is the range of rider intellect

Good spread of views, thanks everyone.

Just wanted to chuck it out there to see if It was just me or not.

I guess a pinch of protective Dad was in there and, as I mentioned, normally just shrug it off when on my own.

The buzzing someones wheel thing is what started me off as when I used to race XC in the mid level Cats, hassling the rider infront to put them off was fair game but steaming up behind an inexperienced rider on a blue trail can end up with them getting injured through no fault of their own.

By contrast, on my first visit to BPW a much faster fella came bombing down behind me as I just about managed to gather my thoughts and call out "clear on my left". "Nah, I'm good - carry on mate" came back the reply and he sat there until we reached the fireroad. Never felt threatened, never felt guilty - even though he was probably only bimbling by then.

Caught up with him in the bus, and he suggested I try the outside line on my next run down for a way better entry to the section he'd followed me through. He was right too...

... so just popped out my ussual slightly sarcastic “THANKS” shout...

Oh you're THAT sort eh?

I'm sure communicating your belief that you were owed some sort of thanks for a panicked pull over on a berm put him in a positive frame of mind, especially using the medium of sarcasm; well known for its ability to engender good will and overcome discord throughout the human race*.

*See what I did there?

Had it once at the green bit at swinley, it's there for kids to get a first try on a trail centre and two nobbers were racing each other round it and overtaking kids at speed. My two headed off for ice cream and I had a quiet word with them, they were apologetic but one guy tried to explain it by saying his kid was riding round as well?

The best riders take pleasure in seeing beginners gaining experience. I’ve always ridden with kids and it’s a pleasures to provide some confidence boosting when you catch them.. It’s a blue run after all. Other levels are available. Pass at the fire roads and open spaces. And repeat

when they were really young I rode behind for protection and coaching  I didn’t get a lot of trouble. But then wee weren’t hammering the blacks either!

I always had the impression that BPW was rammed, that it'd attract the fastest people and that perhaps it's not the place for beginners.

I don't get paid holidays so I've never been there in the week - too expensive for a day off - and I won't visit at a weekend because uplifts are booked so far in advance it's unbelieveable.

Would have thought that FoD or Afan or somewhere like that would be a better training ground?   Not that I know...

Having ridden there a few times & then at Antur for the first time recently I must saw Antur seemed waaay more chilled out – with way less ego.

It really depends who is there on the day, I have seen it both ways at Antur

Interesting, a mountain biker barging a child of a trail is treated with much less derision on this forum than a triathlete nearly hitting a horse in a race

a mountain biker barging a child of a trail

When did that happen?

Interesting, a mountain biker barging a child of a trail is treated with much less derision on this forum than a triathlete nearly hitting a horse in a race

Interesting that you've just completely made that up in your head then typed it. Maybe you should use Twitter.

The best riders take pleasure in seeing beginners gaining experience.

I can't speak for BPW but when we've ridden at other trail centres, I've had riders catch up behind my son and when I've called out for him to let them past, they've responded "Naah, he's going plenty fast enough. Keep up the good work!" - you can actually see the lift of the shoulders as he hears it and he'll always try that bit harder to justify the comment. They'll get past him shortly after, but it'll be all he'll talk about in the cafe afterwards.

Never underestimate how much a few kind words can have on a less experienced rider (especially kids)!

I’ve had riders catch up behind my son and when I’ve called out for him to let them past, they’ve responded “Naah, he’s going plenty fast enough. Keep up the good work!” – you can actually see the lift of the shoulders as he hears it and he’ll always try that bit harder to justify the comment. They’ll get past him shortly after, but it’ll be all he’ll talk about in the cafe afterwards.

This. Finding a few moments to tell a kid they're doing well and keep going etc, on a climb or a descent, makes me enjoy the next bit more as well.

That might not be the 'vibe' at BPW, even on the blues though. 🙁

Never underestimate how much a few kind words can have on a less experienced rider (especially kids)!

+1

"Interesting, a mountain biker barging a child of a trail is treated with much less derision on this forum than a triathlete nearly hitting a horse in a race"

Child's face

I can’t speak for BPW but when we’ve ridden at other trail centres, I’ve had riders catch up behind my son and when I’ve called out for him to let them past, they’ve responded “Naah, he’s going plenty fast enough. Keep up the good work!” – you can actually see the lift of the shoulders as he hears it and he’ll always try that bit harder to justify the comment. They’ll get past him shortly after, but it’ll be all he’ll talk about in the cafe afterwards.

Never underestimate how much a few kind words can have on a less experienced rider (especially kids)!

And this ^^^

Often I come up behind people and they start apologising or panicking and I try to put them at ease one way or another. We do not have a singular right to the trail and it is important to share it and make other trail users comfortable with your presence.

It is hard to achieve though isn't it - a shout or a bell from a distance could easily be perceived as a but entitled, but sneaking up quietly is probably worse.

My number one tactic is when I see someone slower than me up ahead, is to take a break and let them get a good distance away so I can go as fast as I like section by section. Sooner or later they will pull over for their own reasons and you can nip past then.

Perhaps he is incredibly shy, or even mute?

OMAFAG. Maybe his mouth has fallen off and he eats through his arse. You never know.

My mate Occam reckons he's just a Strava Dick.

My number one tactic is when I see someone slower than me up ahead, is to take a break and let them get a good distance away so I can go as fast as I like section by section.

Often, when we do this at busy weekends it just ends up someone else passing then us waiting for them .. then someone else comes etc.!

We do not have a singular right to the trail and it is important to share it and make other trail users comfortable with your presence.

True but it works both ways.... I'm often with the kid and often you see adult "beginners" determined to start a section before us... quite why they want to be in front of a much faster rider escapes me.  When I see someone obviously far more skilled than I am I want to follow them not be in front!

What's more surprising is its nearly always groups of adults not teenagers or families.

True but it works both ways…. I’m often with the kid and often you see adult “beginners” determined to start a section before us… quite why they want to be in front of a much faster rider escapes me.  When I see someone obviously far more skilled than I am I want to follow them not be in front!

from riding with the Missus - try being female. Adult males seem to need to assert their masculinity (or show off their fat arse) by jumping in front of her and riding slowly.

from riding with the Missus – try being female. Adult males seem to need to assert their masculinity (or show off their fat arse) by jumping in front of her and riding slowly.

Was just about to post exactly the same thing - and absolutely no chance of them moving out of the way once they've realised their mistake

from riding with the Missus – try being female. Adult males seem to need to assert their masculinity (or show off their fat arse) by jumping in front of her and riding slowly.

Not all adult males... I'm more than happy to follow a female who's way better than me (or just knows the trail) down ... at least until they drop me.

and absolutely no chance of them moving out of the way once they’ve realised their mistake

Cripes... I'd rather pull over and smile an acknowledgement than get to the bottom and have to look sheepish.

The nice thing though is I find its almost always adults... lots of young kids (well teenagers) don't seem to have that attitude with a younger kid nor my kid... he's quite happy that his year younger mate is better and faster on descents big jumps than he is and always wants to follow him.

Gives me hope for the future 😀

 I’d rather pull over and smile an acknowledgement than get to the bottom and have to look sheepish.

I just fiddle with something on my bike and make out I have a mechanical problem that slowed me down 😉