[Closed] Bible bashers

nice acronym for a christian group...

Any fit Godbookers? TBH they could convert me if they were fit (and put it out)

Depending on which brand of the cult of christ they belong to, they are [b]obliged[/b] to try to convert you (for your own good, obviously).

Pity the deluded fools.

'...my sport.'? Since when did you have the exclusive licence on mountain biking GnarGnar? (by the way I'm an atheist but I'm also not a bigot)

geetee1972 - Member
'...my sport.'? Since when did you have the exclusive licence on mountain biking GnarGnar?

I regard it as my sport, do you not regard it as your sport? I could have typed "our sport" but that would be making an assumption that everyone on here is passionate about it and feels a degree of ownership / responsibility toward it.

Id like to think Im not a biggot either.

Cycling; a pleasing sport in which fellowship, play and the taking of pleasure in the world around us are mingled to keep us young, happy and vigorous.

If some people want to bolt specific beliefs about the nature of life, the universe and everything onto that then that is their affair.

I had no idea surfers were all christians, by the way. 🙂

Live and let ride. Why's it any worse than all the other over hyped advertising schmuffle that seems to cling to riding nowadays? I don't think they'll be chasing you through the woods.

I'm not fit. Anyway I'm married. 🙂

The only thing that bother me about their approach is that, if they tried to talk to me about religion, I'd think;

"The only reason you spoke to me was to try and convert me"

at the end and any feeling that we were sharing an experience or hobby would be lost.

"they are blatantly using mountain biking to convert people to their religion."

Religious people trying to convert heathens - I'm shocked! 😉

What's the peoblem ? If you don't wish to be converted, just tell them to F off.

Get rid of them and feel good at the same time 😀

wwaswas - Member
The only thing that bother me about their approach is that, if they tried to talk to me about religion, I'd think;

"The only reason you spoke to me was to try and convert me"

at the end and any feeling that we were sharing an experience or hobby would be lost.

I dont think that's how they operate, I could be wrong but I think the idea is to bond with you over an extended period of time through a shared enjoyment of a particular activity, all the while portraying the impression that they are great blokes with great lives....eventually they earn your friendship and trust then bam! they drag you into a bush and baptise you....something like that.

"they drag you into a bush"

that's hora converted then 😉

I have ridden with people who believe in things!! wwooooooooooooooooooooooo 😯

"....climb the ladder in their Cult of respectability" whats that mean? Jacobs Ladder? It would be a miracle to be able to ride that all the way. If they want to use their sport to share their religion with others then fantastic, it's good to see that there are people around who believe in some thing. Now that shopping is on the decline as a major religion then perhaps we'll see a return to more faith based beliefs. Obviously it's not going to a good idea if they were to hold prayer meetings just the start of that "do or die bit" on the last section of the Innerleithen downhill but on one occasion recently it may have helped me.

theres a few christians at sheffield uni cycling club, never seen any of them clear jacobs ladder past the first RH turn after the streem. Not seen an atheist manage it either though.

I don't think Christian MTBers climb, they ascend.

Quick question. Do you see Bible bashers down at the homeless and washed-out actively trying to convert them? Am I being cynical here but are biblebashers selective (or at least draw the line) on whom they want in their community? Its a human weakness after all but surely they should seek to convert ALL souls.

[i]"they drag you into a bush"[/i]

That pleases me on so many many levels

Not seen an atheist manage it either though.

That's because you've not been riding with us for ages.

hora - Member
Quick question. Do you see Bible bashers down at the homeless and washed-out actively trying to convert them? Am I being cynical here but are biblebashers selective (or at least draw the line) on whom they want in their community? Its a human weakness after all but surely they should seek to convert ALL souls.

In their defence many do. It might be my skewed sense of things but I've noticed this tends to be COE etc, not neccesarily born agains and evangelicals. They seem to have a hard on for converting drunks with tea and biscuits.

mt - Member
"....climb the ladder in their Cult of respectability" whats that mean? Jacobs Ladder?

Do I have to elaborate?

Jacob's Ladder, now there was an excellent film.
Kind of fits in with the God thing as well.

When the Jehovas came round to the house when I was a kid my dad would answer the door and the conversation usually went like this.

Jehova - "hi, isn't it a lovely day"

Me - "who is it dad?"

Dad - "happy clappers son... get my gun"

Worked every time.

Quick question. Do you see Bible bashers down at the homeless and washed-out actively trying to convert them? Am I being cynical here but are biblebashers selective (or at least draw the line) on whom they want in their community? Its a human weakness after all but surely they should seek to convert ALL souls.

There are Christians helping in pretty much all the world's trouble spots and lots working to help the homeless. I personally know two who worked in the Romanian orphanages and another couple who are currently in Africa.

The Salvation Army do a bit with the homeless too, I believe.

I know Christians with physics degrees being paid big money. I know Christians who are (or were) teenage single parents with no qualifications. I know Christians who are builders, teachers, chip shop fryers, midwifes, web designers, secretaries…

Obviously, none of that fits into the Ned Flanders right-wing creationist stereotype.

cult of respectability

They probably just ride on Saturdays...

I'm certainly not selective in who I talk to, 2 of my best friends are, or more accurately were, a bank robber and a drug dealer. You just have to show love and compassion and hopefully someone will see a difference in you that will make them inquisitive to know more. If they aren't interested then that's ok, it's their decision.

Lots of Atheists do this as well but with greater moral justification. they dont think they are avoiding hell and destined for a greater reward like Evangelical Christians do. Consequently they get the higher moral ground as far as I am concerned.

Doctors without frontiers are secularist. It doesnt need an irrational belief in an invisible friend and the promise of an afterlife to be good to people in this one.

[i]hora said: Do you see Bible bashers down at the homeless and washed-out actively trying to convert them? [/i]

You should see the Jesus Army operate.
They [b]actively/aggressively[/b] target the street homeless (some would say the desparate and needy).

I'm certainly not selective in who I talk to, 2 of my best friends are, or more accurately were, a bank robber and a drug dealer.

Found jesus did they?

[i]Do you see Bible bashers down at the homeless and washed-out [/i]

Yep, the Sally Army, etc.
And a very good thing, too. They don't try too hard about the conversion, either, as they're too busy being Christian and charitable.

[i]In their defence many do. It might be my skewed sense of things but I've noticed this tends to be COE etc, not neccesarily born agains and evangelicals. They seem to have a hard on for converting drunks with tea and biscuits.[/i]
ooh! what sort of biscuits. and can i have juice instead of tea?

shineyredorange - had a bloke round my house the other day who asked if I'd thought about vacuum cleaners recently. Turned out he was a jahoovers witness.

More seriously;

My mum is a christian missionary. She's approaching 75, goes to all parts of the world both preaching and getting equipment and materials to places that need them. She's just been appointed a Unesco representative and can direct where their aid goes. about 10 years ago she was in a minibus crash int he cameroon that left her with a fractured skull, broken neck, borken shoulder and a mashed left hand - 13 out out of the 15 people in the vehicle died. She says god was protecting her - I ask why god let her be int he crash in the first place. Still, hasn't slowed her down much and she's still pretty spry. I hope I've got that much living left to do at 75 as she seems to have, even if I don't share her beliefs.

The title of this thread is a bit of a poor show and almost as offensive to christians as saying mongs, darkies or chinks to their respective groups.

I don't get the anti-religion feeling in this country; live and let live and as long as it doesn't affect your ability to live and enjoy life then just ignore it. A christian having a little chat doesn't hurt, but like myself when various religious groups try to talk to me in the street, you have the ability to say no thanks and walk on. Some fanatical religious groups are not like this though (think extreme 'christian' cult groups or various muslim extremist groups that hold protests and encourage hatred against others), but that's not related to the OP.

I_did_dab, that is the whole point, thanks. 🙂
Actually, I don't generally ride on Sundays, not because I think it's wrong, it's because I'm busy most of the day! I do go out on a Sunday afternoon sometimes. Saturday is better anyway, less walkers and tourists around.

I do like the idea that someone who starts a thread called "bible bashers" (a widely accepted derogatory term for Christians) and then rants about a specific group stealing *his* sport, then goes oin to suggest he isn't a bigot.

It's not the offence caused to those with faith I mind, it's some fat IT bloke on his £3k full susser referring to the puffing and panting he does on a Sunday morning at a trail centre as being a "sport".

Whoa whoa whoa sweetchild of mine mysterymurdoch, turn your Jesus Raygun off of me.

wwaswas, NO OFFENCE meant by this but I had to reread this bit twice [b]My mum is a christian missionary[/b]

time for another tablet hora...

Why do I come across as a satanist?

I don't get the anti-religion feeling in this country; live and let live and as long as it doesn't affect your ability to live and enjoy life then just ignore it. A christian having a little chat doesn't hurt

It does when that chat involves preaching against condom use in Sub Saharan Africa which in turn leads to millions of innocent deaths each year. Hardly just a bit of fun. Similalrly when those little chats involve restricting funding for life saving treatments in countries that dont ban abortion or refuse to teach abstinance.

This is what bothers me about religion.. It's not benign. They have a policy of conversion. Indoctrination is not a bad word to these people, it's part of their reason for being. It's fine for us as individuals cos I reckon most of us on here are strong enough to make up our own minds but there's always a percentage of people who will be proactively recruited and it won't be down to their own choice but via a campaign of indoctrination.

This is why I prefer to consider myself a proactive Atheist. Being a passive atheist is fine so long as the religions around you are benign and allow people to come to them rather than via a policy of conversion to 'The truth' but unfortunately organised religion is not benign and is in fact pervasive throughout our society. As a result I find myself with restricted educational choices for my kids because parts of the educational system is not accessible to my kids because I don't believe in any religion. Atheists are disadvantaged in this way as 'believers' have the equal choice of state or religious schools. A Church going parent can choose EITHER.. I can only choose the state option.

I know it's not directly relevant to us in the UK but in the US, that actually does have a separation of religion and state built into the constitution, any presidential candidate offering himself up as an Atheist candidate would never be elected.

And my point is that unless Atheists counter the voices of the religious convertors by arguing and questioning their beliefs that situation will never change. I'm an atheist and while organised religions continue promotion of a policy of conversion of none believers I'll choose to actively argue against it and try and convert believers into none believers, not because I think it's right to do so but because in not doing so the society in which I live will continue to be one in which my right to exist is affected by religion.

Jeez.. organised religion winds me up!

I see the Salvation Army get a mention above. What a great organisation they are, they just get on with it. Great brass band as well.

mt - Member
"....climb the ladder in their Cult of respectability" whats that mean? Jacobs Ladder?

Do I have to elaborate? it would be very interesting if you would Gnargnar how else will we keep the thread going?

"Do you see Bible bashers down at the homeless and washed-out actively trying to convert them?"

Er, yep I do, and rather gently while they are scraping them up from the gutter of their existence. Helping others is considered God's work. Good init?

Wise words Mark 8)

wwaswas- erm I meant the word 'missionary'...ducks (Quack!)

Every Salvation Armist' I have ever met has smelt of mints. Why? 😆

GNAR, Yes they did find him 🙂

Surfer, you need to check out a bible a bit. No one gets a greater reward for doing "good things", everyone is treated equally if they believe. Read about the thief on the cross for example.

ourmaninthenorth - Member
I do like the idea that someone who starts a thread called "bible bashers" (a widely accepted derogatory term for Christians) and then rants about a specific group stealing *his* sport, then goes oin to suggest he isn't a bigot.

Perhaps I should have used bible thumpers? Christ lickers? I am certainly no more biggoted than the average christian. I've never stopped someone in the street to inform them I was righteous, and they were damned because of their beliefs. I dont think homosexuals are an abomination, I dont think Islam is a religion of hate, I believe that the theory of evolution should be taught in schools.............

I have many good christian friends, however they (along with every other christian I meet) seems to place zero value on my beliefs.

It's not the offence caused to those with faith I mind, it's some fat IT bloke on his £3k full susser referring to the puffing and panting he does on a Sunday morning at a trail centre as being a "sport".

Im not about to start an internet pissing contest....but....Im anything but fat or unfit, I ride a dirt jump hardtail and I hate trail centres. Try again fat boy.

I see it is only non believers like myself who will feel the wrath?

Which Bible by the way?

I understood the first one had a special reward for non believers like me?

Or do you mean the second one that clearly states the that nothing from the first was to be left undone?

hora, yes she is a real missionary (going to the far flung corenrs of the world spreadign the word of God). She is also the pastor of an evangelical church (in wales, so not quite so far flung). I'm not dreadfully comfortable with this but it's her life and, frankly, if it keeps her happy, fit and with a young outlook on life who am I to complain - the people she preaches to can always say 'no thanks').

she also does a lot of work in getting aid to people who need it for a variety of reasons (which I applaud her for).

I am certainly no more biggoted than the average christian. I've never stopped someone in the street to inform them I was righteous, and they were damned because of their beliefs. I dont think homosexuals are an abomination, I dont think Islam is a religion of hate, I believe that the theory of evolution should be taught in schools.............

The average Christian has probably never done any of those things either.

One religion (sect) that I do like is Sufism. It just seems so majestic, poetic, beautiful and full of love.

Your beliefs should be ranked alongside my belief in the tooth fairy and you should expect to be ridiculed for them as I would be.

Why does your invisible friend demand more respect than my fairy?

My sister is just going to train as a vicar BUT she doesn't try to hard to convert people and she can see both sdies of an argument so i reckon she'll make a great vicar.

The aspect of religion I dislike is the guilt and fear they try and lay on you if you don't believe.

I'll help raise an army to stand alongside Surfer in devotion to the tooth fairy

The average Christian has probably never done any of those things either.

Based on personal experience I strongly disagree. If the "average christian" has never done those things then the new breed is making up for them tenfold.

Your beliefs should be ranked alongside my belief in the tooth fairy and you should expect to be ridiculed for them as I would be.

Why does your invisible friend demand more respect than my fairy?

Do you hold a deep conviction that the tooth fairy is real?

Hora, My Fairysist views should be respected.

I also agree that the Fairies exist surfer. I have seen them with my own god-given eyes (Allah be praised). I have seen many of them around the river that floweth through Manchester. Many many a fairy.

Mike do you mean do I hold a deluded conviction that cant be quantified and is supported by no evidence. No I dont my conviction to Fairysism is short lived.

However "what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

Hora their is only one true Wirral Fairy, You are worshiping a false fairy. This will end in tears

The irony of this thread is palpable - the amount of preaching going on, on both sides is ironic.

Think about it like this - it takes AS MUCH faith, to believe in the non-existence of God (and his/her prophets etc) as it does to believe in them.

There is as much anti-religous proselytization as there is religious proselytization going on here.

My vote is still up for grabs though so keep at it. I was an atheist, but now I'm not so sure.

Aaah I see the insults have started, thanks. Ok surfer, I'll do you a deal, I will listen to whatever you have to say about the tooth fairy, no problem. Go ahead, please enlighten me. And I'm not being sarcastic.

You can ridicule me too, no problem. Whatya got next?

What do you mean by the first and second bible by the way?

Based on personal experience I strongly disagree. If the "average christian" has never done those things then the new breed is making up for them tenfold.

Based on my experience of lions, their natural habitat is in a fenced in area of parkland. There may be loads of other lions that I've not seen, however.

Perhaps you need to widen your experience of Christians? The last vicar of the church closest to my work married his long-term partner Malcolm a years or two ago. I've never asked him his opinion of Islam or evolution, but he's never ranted about them.

Jeez.. organised religion winds me up!

It wound Jesus up too...is that what you meant? 🙄

GNARGNAR

Your view is based on personel experience, I thought there was more to it than you were letting on. Come on now tell us all what it is from your past that makes you hate Christians invading your space (should that be conscience) you'll feel better. And we can then feel empathy but not blaim those Christians not involved.

I'm not ridiculing you Rob.
We both know i dont believe in Fairies but my children did when they lost teeth. i am ridiculing religion however.

Think about it like this - it takes AS MUCH faith, to believe in the non-existence of God (and his/her prophets etc) as it does to believe in them

Does that mean i need a faith to NOT believe that Elvis lives, that the world is indeed flat and that it is only 6000 years old? Faith is belief with no evidence. I am a busy man considering all of the things that I dont believe in!

Surfer, everyone has a fairy within him (or her, usually him though). My fairy talks to me, gives me strong conviction when descending through rock gardens, allowing me to walk/lower my bike down confidently.

We share the same Fairism, beleive me. Only in some, Fairism is stronger.

There is as much anti-religous proselytization as there is religious proselytization going on here.

That's exactly the way it has to be.

I'll stop preaching atheism (and I'm not being ironic with the word 'preach' I'm more than comfortable wit it and I don't agree that it is an oxymoron to preach atheisism) when organised religion stops their preaching.

I'll stop my policy of actively seeking to convert the religious to atheism when they take a similar stance. But that's not going to happen unfortunately.

Does that mean i need a faith to NOT believe that Elvis lives, that the world is indeed flat and that it is only 6000 years old? Faith is belief with no evidence. I am a busy man considering all of the things that I dont believe in!

Have you personally verified the age of the world, or did you believe someone else who did so? You'd be a busy man finding evidence for all the things that you believe in.

we have a stair fairy in my house.

I place some items at the foot fo the stairs and they magically find their way upstairs to where I was going to put them.

the stair fairy only seems to work when my wife is in the house though.

I'll stop my policy of actively seeking to convert the religious to atheism when they take a similar stance.

How active are you being? May I suggest Tehran as a starting point? There are loads of theists there for you to convert to atheism.

😉

The sacred Bicycle is my religion. How many of us/you worship at the church of muddy singletrack of a sunday morning, and use it as a way to clear your head, or right a few wrongs of the day

that almost smacks of going into a mosque to convert people.

I'm very much for each to thier own, but please dont come and try and inflict it on me.
and the god-botherers are the worst offenders of this imo.
i now live in fear of jehovas :$, and have missed more than one bike related parcel because i go and check out the upstairs window who is at the door before answering (we were getting them everyday at one point :'( and im too nice to tell them to ROD OFF)

This thread can only end badly.

there's no mileage to be had by trying to convince each other of the "rightness" of each other's faith/lack of faith.

Jihad, it's the only way, nickc.

Mind you, I've seen more vitriol in a Marin thread...

i now live in fear of jehovas :$, and have missed more than one bike related parcel because i go and check out the upstairs window who is at the door before answering (we were getting them everyday at one point :'( and im too nice to tell them to ROD OFF)

MTFU and just say "no thank you" before closing the door. Jeez.

because we dont have explanations for everything doesnt mean we should believe in imaginary gods, your god is just a god of the gaps!

Have you personally verified the age of the world, or did you believe someone else who did so?

No, the best evidence to date is available in peer reviewed articles that get picked over and altered as new evidence becomes available.

The key difference is that science is our current best evaluaion and open to alteration as new facts / methods / understanding emerge. Religion is set and immutable and has to be accepted with out any qualification.

SSP

Faith is belief with no evidence.

Exactly - there is as little evidence for the existence of God (discounting of course the various anthropic principles, which are less religious in content and more philosophical) as there is evidence for the non-existence of God.

To illustrate the point - other than simply saying 'twas ever thus' or using Occam's Razor, give me proof that God does not exist.

If you spend some time thinking about it (I don't mean that as a jibe, I mean it as a serious suggestion), it does makes sense. Or then again, maybe it doesn't...

Oh and Mark - quite agree there should always be a debate. I was merely observing the irony.

In the old days Christians were hard ****s. Taking Crusades to foreign lands. Bringing freedom to Jerusalem. Now its a ****in football song.

Where did it all go wrong?

I start asking the JW's questions they can't possibly answer. Stops them bothering other people as I take up all their time. It's a service I provide for free. Thank you. 🙂

Religion is set and immutable and has to be accepted with out any qualification

Not true. I know two CofE vicars (both called David, but that's not really relevant) who have very different beliefs about the nature of God and the Bible.

Geetee

Its ironic that those that believe the most outrageous and unprovable tales are treated with the utmost respect. Faith is seen as a virtue!

Its also ridiculous that beacause the existence of god cannot be proved or disproved the likelihood of his existence is 50:50.

Use the same analogy with fairies?