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The bearing will be destroyed due to dirt ingress long before the wear caused by the rotation has any effect. Hence the tolerances make no real difference. Simple as that.
Think I might squirt some nice fresh grease into me zerks just for shits and giggles, it's been a while. Who needs bearing sellers eh? 
Chunky... you mean I don't have to take out all those horrid bushes and replace them with performance bearings?
Phew...
;o)
😀
andyl46 - Member
The bearing will be destroyed due to dirt ingress long before the wear caused by the rotation has any effect. Hence the tolerances make no real difference. Simple as that.
Not rotation, haven't you been paying attention? the small impacts cause play in the bearings over time, which is part of the argument for full compliment bearings. Dirt ingress causes the bearing to seize and rust to collapse, However actual ware/damage to the balls/races causes play to the bearings.
As I said the loose tolerances on the budget bearings causes them to burn out quicker. As soon as there is a small amount of play the races and actual ball bearings will see accelerated damage or ware occur, will they not?
That's "wear".
loose tolerances? is that when bearings get the shits?
ballsofcottonwool
for a brain?
MEEHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA MEEHAHA laughs at own joke.
Translation into scottish please!
Come on Kael - bed time now.
If a bearing firm choose to use certain percentage of grease to each bearing for whatever reasons, why do you pop them open and over fill them? why not replace the seals with better quality ones?
MR mills NO not for me sunshine. Unless you're a good looking bird with an idiotic an taste in user names.
Try singlespeedstu, he might be interestd in the hard option and a bit of extra hairy @rse action.
martinxyz why not simply have them made with the right grease fill and seals in the fasctory?
😉 's @ mr_mills
No thanks!! I prefer gingers. Like Kael 😀
It was worth a shot. 😆
Kaesae - I think we've exhausted this topic now. Will you start another thread please?
(And this time make it wacky will yer?)
So the bearings now fail from impact damage on the races? Fine, use full complement bearings to spread the loads over a larger area and minimise this wear.
But you dont do you?
So they fail from another mode of failure, which in every bearing I've seen is down to the grease being displaced, corrosion occuring on the balls and races so the bearings become gritty or seize. High tolerence bearings will have no effect on this mode of failure. High tolerance bearings are only really needed in high load or high rotation speed applications, and mountainbike pivots are neither.
balls to this
cant believe so much cr@p can be spouted about greasy balls
did you do all your research on the internetz ....
and FWIW I've used these guys a few times and found their bearings great:
[url] http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/ [/url]
: P
That's a lot of tags.
I honestly have no idea what bearings I use. They all seem to be hidden in the bike somewhere. Everything runs smoothly with no problems, so I guess they're quite happy. Threads like this make me worry about some people.
Threads like this make me worry about some people.
given the way I treat my bike I have to replace bearings quite often, so I'm interested. I'd be more worried about people who coddle their bikes for fear of wearing something out 🙂
Not coddling:
[url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2008/11oct/DSC_0962.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2008/11oct/DSC_0962.jp g"/> [/img][/url] (that's a bridleway BTW)
Mr barns that is yet another superb photo and the focused but grinning face captures the whole essence of the biking spirit.
Do you do threads with reviews that show people where the best ride spots are including maps and travel info etc.
Will you do a couple Simon? show us where the ride spots are you go to, on the map and tell us what they're like?
hello Pierre.
What kind of bearings do you prefer also which manufacturer and how do you get the seals out and back in. Can you also tell me how you remove the old grease and install the new grease and what kind of grease you use?
Look forward to hearing from you or not!
Jamie
You like my tag collection, bringing the funk and colour back to STW.
show us where the ride spots are you go to, on the map and tell us what they're like?
oh, you mean [url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/maptest.php?jumpto=336205,502235,8,12,269,325,465,0 ]like this ??[/url]
move the mouse over the map and all the routes enclosing that point are highlighted in turn. The box on the left shows the aerial photo with the routes marked too. You can zoom in and out, or type the name of a place bottom left to find routes nearby. Hold down the CTRL key to freeze the lists of routes and then click on one to be taken to a detailed 25k:1 map.
As for what they're like, that's harder. If the route is shown at all it's worth doing. Opinions vary so widely it's hard to say anything very useful. Ride it and see what you think 🙂
I find bearings, especially pivot bearings, are a bit like cables - sad people spend far too much time obsessing over them when they should be riding their bikes. The rest of us lube stuff, fit it properly and replace it when it's worn out.
I'm certainly not going to try and correct a troll who doesn't even have a consistent argument and is just trying to use a forum about mountain biking as free publicity.
: P
Pierre
Spend some time finding and fitting the right bearings and you fit less bearings, they also run for longer. How long does it take to strip a bike remove the old bearings, fit the new ones and then build the bike back up and if your doing that say once a year and I'm doing it say once every three.
Which one of us is smarter? Ever heard the saying a stitch in time saves 9, I find people who criticise and judge other harshly to be nothing but complete and utter bankers. If you don't want to join the thread or contribute to the discussion why post? as for being a troll and trying for free publicity.
If I was trying to sell bearings and nothing else would I be wlling to have a go at every gutter snipe, @ss wipe, wonna be expert that cmes along.
Not surprising you won't answer the question considering you can't, probably better if you just throw up a smoke screen and avoid answering it.
My argument has been consistent from the start the only variation on it is in your mind and the minds of fools.
[i]My argument has been consistent[/i][b]ly annoying [/b][i]from the start the only variation on it is in your mind and the minds of fools. [/i]
Fixed that for you Kaesae...
😉
actully [b]kael[/b] I think people are trying to provoke you into your former obscenity as it was much funnier than talking about bearings 🙂
kaesae - Member
Curly68 - Member
You madam are a troll!!!
Why am I a troll? I didn't start a thread extolling virtues of certain types of bearings that I happen to sell.
I asked genuine questions that I would like to know an answer to and I get that response!
Just answer me this then.
If it is dirt and water ingress that causes bearings to fail, then surely it is the sealing in the bearing that must be the cause of the ingress and by removing the seal are you causing more dirt and water to get into the bearing? The seals are pressed into a lip. How do you remove the seals without damaging them?
All I want is an honest answer without any cocky replies please.
So, while we're at it, you've told us you sell cheap caged bearings which you take apart and re-grease with your own magic formula. These bearings are primarily pivot bearings, although you don't ride them yourself.
Given that pivot bearings are mainly load-bearing rather than rotational, the tolerances of the bearings themselves is not an issue - tight tolerances, ceramic bearings etc. are for high speed efficiency - so using bearings with relatively low tolerances is not a huge problem, especially as the bearings don't even make a full rotation, probably not even half.
What puzzles me is why you are trying to convince us that using caged bearings for pivots is a good idea, when caged bearings have fewer balls so the loads are effectively higher on each individual ball. A full complement bearing would share the load over more balls. This would mean that, disregarding all other factors, caged bearings would not be as long-lived as full complement bearings when used for pivots.
Also, others have suggested that the only reason caged bearings are more resilient to dirt and grit is because there is more space between the balls; the grease becomes contaminated with dirt and grit as usual but because there is a higher concentration of grease to balls, the grease effectively harbours the dirt so less comes into contact with the balls. The cages themselves do not prevent dirt coming into contact with the balls, in fact they present more of a consistent surface to the ball which could become contaminated with dirt (compared to an adjacent ball in a full complement bearing). The seals may prevent ingress of dirt and / or water, but you've told us that you replace the original seals, which at best maintains only their original integrity but also carries a risk of damaging the seals (albeit only slightly) when removing and replacing them.
So in simple terms, that's why I don't think you've presented a particularly compelling argument. And also I think I've given a better account of myself than trying to quote anecdotal evidence or data I've gathered myself. And I'm not even a qualified engineer, just an experienced professional bike mechanic with a science degree. I'm sure an actual bearings engineer will be able to provide better scrutiny, and preferably one who's not trying to sell us something.
And "farts with his face?"... please.
: P
Sheldon Brown said full compliment bearings should never go anywhere near a bike...
[i]Sheldon Brown said full compliment bearings should never go anywhere near a bike... [/i]
How about full compl[u][b]e[/b][/u]ment bearings? Or were you just being really nice to your bearings and compl[u][b]i[/b][/u]menting them in the hope that they'd last a bit longer... 😉
You still havnt answered my question .....your research is done where ? You remind me of an mp....only answering the question you can give a smarmy answer to
Pierre
You're making your argument up based on facts I never said, like everyone else on here. Your idea of proving your point is to simply make up what ever you feel like and ignore the facts. Replacing seals? Cages seal bearings from water? the list of nonsense you lot have used to justify your arguments is outrageous. Come up with a proper argument that doesn't involve making stuff up like some 5 year olds.
You asked where I have done my research online, Spoken to countless people for hours on the phone including my suppliers but more importantly for me analyzed every single bearing I've ever removed from a frame and asked the riders as much about their riding and how they service / wash their bikes.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
Ok so annecdotal research rather than hard facts ....ill take mr shigleys word on bearing use over yours any day of the week
Kaesae.. going back to your pic of a caged bearing ( a bit late, but I have been working long hours last few days, and missed all this fun ) You could'nt have picked a worse bearing! The ingress of water past the main seal (most common cause of mtb bearing failure I have seen) will have a field day rusting not only the balls and race, but also that steel cage. When that bugger rusts-up, its for good. You could have at least chosen a brass or plastic caged bearing.
As for the cage giiving protection ! if water can get past a tiny gap in a seal, it will have no problem with the larger gaps around the cage.
I think we all agree that removing bearing seals and adding or more grease or reagreasing improves the life of most bearings. But it is not rocket science.
Still waiting kaesae
kaesae, assuming pierre is talking nonsense about you replacing seals, that means then that after having prized the seal off the bearing (thus damaging it as it comes past the lip) to install your magic grease, that you in fact [i]dont[/i] replace it, you leave the bearings open without a seal? Or do you [i]replace[/i] the seal into the bearing (having compromised its effectiveness)?
Please tell me how you have "analysed" every single bearing you have removed? As a former professional materials scientist I'm curious to hear what techniques you deployed.
Perhaps youd have been better off hawking your bearing kit as a freebie to try and generate publicity as you seem to have attended the Superstar Components Customer Service Seminar.
oh right, youve already tried that too
http://www.descent-world.co.uk/2010/03/10/katec-bikes-custom-bearing-kits/
Has that Kona full sus you blagged on here, taking advantage of community spirited goodwill, appeared on ebay yet?
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/free-kona-stinky-deelux-frame-19-redblack
Can't you read mc? He can tell a bearing's quality by feel!
It's 4-0 to Liverpool at Burnley. Burnley are relegated to the Championship. Elsewhere, Chelsea are 3-0 up against Stoke.
venemous bloodsucking parasites. ..?
I just can't do him justice.
Kaesae wrote,
"You're making your argument up based on facts I never said, like everyone else on here. Your idea of proving your point is to simply make up what ever you feel like and ignore the facts. Replacing seals? Cages seal bearings from water? the list of nonsense you lot have used to justify your arguments is outrageous."
Epic fail boyo, epic fail.
Kaesae, "The cage surrounds the bearing hence the term cage. dirt and water will therefore find it harder to get at the bearings."
Seems like not even you believe your own bullshit, 3 pages on and you've forgotten you ever said it.