[Closed] Bad skills course session review

It rained on mine.

Ha..reason for asking is that obviously the reviews on their websites are glowing references. Someone somewhere 'must' have had inadequate time of it.

Im looking for another session and it would be good to see reviews saying "wish I would of choosen something more advanced" etc. That would help me decide what I need.

I pringled a front wheel on mine and my car battery did expensively fail the morning after.

Oh, if only GW were here....

what happened to GW then?
Top rider, remember having a great day riding up at inners with him and Househusband a few years back 8)

Iirc he basically said that all the, different, ones he'd been on were shit, because the instructor though he knew more than the folk being taught and that he should have been open to learning things from his pupils.

I've done a few now and not been wowed yet. They've all been good days out but I've never come away feeling my riding has moved on much. I think the problem is I set expectations too high having read many times on here how people have had their riding transformed. I generally seem to come away with one or maybe two useful tips which does help but doesn't seem much for the money.

Not sure it is fair to name but some my gripes include:
Not being given actual instruction, just told to repeat an exercise.
Being told that the instructor has never failed to teach anyone to do a particular exercise then failing to teach me.
Paying for a half day and getting 2.5 hours.
Having an instructor not turn up.

If you're on a public skills day then I think it's a bit like lining up at the start of an xc race, don't sell yourself short.

I did, a bit. The catch 22 for me was that I was doing a skills course as I was a bit short of confidence in my riding! There were bits of the day that I got a lot out of but the majority of it was waiting for others in the group to build confidence on some fairly small drops.

My own fault, shan't name the coach as it was by no means their fault. Next coaching day is either going to be 1-2-1 or with my mates, as we're all much of a muchness.

Not sure it is fair to name but some my gripes include:

not surprised, GW is a Fast skilful rider, a Lot of instructors are 'trained' where he is Experienced, prolly where the wires got crossed 😉

Next coaching day is either going to be 1-2-1 or with my mates, as we're all much of a muchness.

I agree. Bit like when I took my kids to swimming lessons, they didn't learn much at all in half a year with a class size of 10. Two lessons 1-2-1 and they were competent swimmers.

Didn't get much out of the one I did - but it's a poor student who blames the prof, so I ain't complaining.

Well not complaining much, but it seems obvious that people learn differently, so a good teacher should have a few different approaches up their sleeve. Just having one style is never going to work for everyone.

I agree with the above. The lesson I had with a mixed ability group of strangers taught me a lot less than the 1-2-1. I really think it is better value to go alone or with a group of similar ability.

I personally* think you will take more away from an afternoon at a Local or your favourite trail with your mates, drops, hitting jumps, general riding a few stops for piss taking and ridicule before getting back on your bike and enjoying the ride.

There's no substitute for actually getting out there and putting in the Miles.
Doing it with people you enjoy spending time with makes it more enjoyable and this will bring you on more than a controlled classroom style environment.

I rode with my mates for several years, none of whom were aware of some of the things I was doing wrong. How would I then manage to improve? I don't know what the problem is and neither do they. The result is that all the experience in the world is not going to correct my faults.

It's not exactly a bad review, since overall I was happy but my first Dirtschool session was a bit of a mess- it was the intermediate course and was pretty clear up front that it'd be done on reds and blacks and require a decent level of skill. One of the group wasn't quite at that level, and another was miles off, a definite blue route rider. Difficult situation to deal with to be fair but it caused a lot of problems, those 2 ended up soaking up far more of Andy's time and it disrupted the course as well, we didn't cover all the advertised material. I felt like the coaching was excellent but the group management was poor and we ended up getting penalised for other people's mistake.

But I still had a good day and went back for 2 more sessions so obviously I didn't feel too bad.

I've done a few
1:2:1
one was poor, not really thought out and with limited places to "practice", not really much value

one was somewhere with some purpose built facilities, took me well out of my comfort zone, learned a lot

group
basic beginner skills done after the other two, learnt stuff

attitude from the trainer and the rider matter, lots of people are good riders but aren't good coaches/ skills trainers

I've had good results, I would suggest a 1 to 1 session or you run the risk of the group being out of step and the loudest/worst one gets all the attention (normally to avoid them hurting themselves)
Knowing what you want from it and communicating it with the person doing the course is the key.

There's no substitute for actually getting out there and putting in the Miles.
Doing it with people you enjoy spending time with makes it more enjoyable and this will bring you on more than a controlled classroom style environment.

This is good, glad I asked.

Well its not a magic wand, you won't come away from one and be able to enter the Red Bull Rampage, even though sometimes the +ve reviews on here make it seem that way.

Ime its more about being told what you're doing wrong rather than how to do it right, you can't unlearn bad habits immediately so you need to go away digest it all then get practising what you've learnt, at least partly, there a big confidence boost element too.

I had a shit session at Whistler once. Dutch guy, about 50, arrogant, unable to grasp the fact there may be riders of different skill/fitness levels in a mixed group. Would rush through techniques quickly, bomb ahead, wait impatiently at junctions until slower folk in the group arrived then take off immediately.

It was fine for me obvs cos I'm a total ledge but the OH never regained interest in MTB after that.

Had a 1-2-1 with Dirt School last year, defo the way to go but £££

I did a 1-2-1 full day one a while back with Great Rock - had an ok day but didn't learn anything, didn't feel structured and was expensive for what it was...pretty much put me off ever bothering to do a skills course again.

I'm a great believer in the method of finding a mate who's better/faster than you and attempting to follow them. By all means ask a bit of advice, but mainly just try to read them. I do find there are some people who are easy to follow and others who aren't.

Guides can also be very knowledgeable. They won't spend much time coaching, but on the odd tech bit, the briefings they give beforehand can often be loaded with useful tips. We had some superb advice from Doug at Basque Mtb during the trip we did last year.

I think good skills coaching is difficult in groups, but can be well worth it nonetheless.

I rode with my mates for several years, none of whom were aware of some of the things I was doing wrong. How would I then manage to improve? I don't know what the problem is and neither do they. The result is that all the experience in the world is not going to correct my faults.
CUT & PASTED ? I CANT DO IT, sorry

Imnotverygood, if as you suggest above you are not very good twinned with the fact that none of your mates appear to be much help combined with a defeatist attitude of "all the experience in the world not being able to correct your faults"

If your happy with what your doing then I wouldn't waste your money on someone telling you something that you fail to correct.

On the other hand, riding with experienced riders who can tell you the basics of feet positioning, rider stance, weight distribution, where the pedals should be in relation to the ground when coasting or cornering, how to pre load travel on a bike when approaching a jump, manualing.

Things which a lot of riders take for granted but something that not everyone can do.
A bit like coaching, some people are receptive to it whilst others learn little from the experience. The way in which we learn and develop varies hugely, a good coach would be able to identify this and with the price of some of these sessions you wod expect to get good coaching staff,

From some of the forum members above, some have benefitted some havent, most advise 1~2~1 some advise just riding and some advise following on.
How we all develop is up to us as individuals, no coach no matter how experienced can help a basket case.

Did one with Campbell Coaching in N.Wales. I ended up hitting bigger jumps and drops than I thought I ever would (6ft plus), but didn't really get much else from the day. As above, I guess much depends on the diligence of the student and learning style. I'm also somewhat suspicious of the consumer-like idea that one can buy grace and style in a day. IMHO watching Fabien Barel videos, memorising them, visualising them, and then consciously and forcibly putting those tips to work on the trail pays more dividends.

Pretty much what Kimbers has said: you aren't going to cure (most) bad habits in a day. Getting the muscle memory to learn (or relearn) something new takes time, it's like learning to play a musical instrument, plus you need to learn what the correct way "feels" like. You might happen on the latter by accident: "Hmm, that felt different" but if you aren't even close to the correct technique then it's going to take a while. Something like pumping the trail isn't obvious and if you don't know what you are trying to achieve then you are going to get the direction and timing of applying force all wrong.

People learn differently so while I might like instructor 'A', he might not be suitable for someone else. Likewise someone might recommend instructor 'B' but if his teaching style doesn't match my learning style then I'm not going to get the most out of a session.

Mixed ability groups are always going to be a problem: what some regard as basic skills other regard as intermediate and an instructor initially has only the individual's personal assessment to advise them of the group/course they should try. A sport like skiing has to some extent got over this by describing well known techniques: stem turn; parallel turn; etc. and linking them to particular levels so you know that you should look at ESF level 4 or whatever. In MTB you have the problem of the terrain being much more varied, it's more like off-piste, so some people are really good at drop-offs but not so good on berms; others are good on loose rock and so on. Going back to pumping the trail, this is very much like weighting and unweighting your skis when travelling over bumps, once you get it it's like "why didn't I do this before?"

On a group session you are pretty much going to follow the training structure as advertised but I think if I were to take a 1-2-1 course then I'd be advising the instructor on what I wanted to get out of the day *before* I turned up then they can structure the session better to my needs. (It would be interesting to know what a 1-2-1 or 2-2-1 day of instructing would or does cost)

I've had a group course and was a little disappointed with what I got out of it. The main thing it taught me was confidence rather than specific techniques. Certainly I got absolutely nothing out of being one of a dozen or so pupils trying to pump through some lumps in a "show and tell" teaching style. Frustrating.

My 5 year old lad has group swimming lessons. During the summer holiday a lot of the kids did not attend so it was often just him and 2 others. His swimming came on loads in that small group and even he recognises and tells us a big group is no good.

I will be paying for 1 on 1 or a VERY small group if I ever go on a skills course again

Interesting thread. I'm maybe looking at having some coaching to see if you can teach an old dog new tricks....never had a coaching session and whilst I feel i'm an ok rider I must have picked up loads of bad habits in the past twenty odd years. Not wanting to hijack the thread but who would you recommend...definitely be 1-2-1 or 1-2-2 with my mate.

Mine was a disaster... he taught me to jump... but not to land 😉

p.s I'm kidding.. 🙂

Interesting comments.

Ive only two skills courses, both with trail motions. I booked a weekend in 2 groups. It was a lot cheaper than others (like great rock) and while I would like to have a day with great rock at some point if I had a similar course as the one with trail motions I would be upset about spending 160 quid as opposed to 70.

Anyhow I did the level one and two courses. As people said the skill level was mixed. On level one we had an “I only do black runs” guy who spent the day showing off to his other half. While the second course was much more mixed. I agree it seemed rubbish just doing drills of lifting the front wheel. However I couldn’t lift the front wheel so this was really good for me. I was hoping that I would get somone to grab hold of me and say move your body to here, or here and then I would be able to replicate the action. Instead we just did the same thing over and over again until “we got it”

The first day got me feeling a little more comfortable on the bike. The second I learned how to do a drop off properly (had no idea before) and get over the jumps safely. It really helped me although I guess without the “boring” first day I wouldn’t have got a much out of it (you could see this by some others in the group not getting to grips with the basics first)

So yes I can see why folks don’t get the experience they wanted. Speaking with others that I ride with that have done a variety of courses they all seem to be happy that they went on them (as was i) and will do them again but they went the magic pill they thought they would be. I thought that by spending an afternoon with somone I would suddenly be transformed into a black route riding god with no fear and amazing skills. It turns out that no amount of teaching will give me that. What I personally learned was that although you can teach the technique it all goes tits up when your tired after half an hour of riding and you cant support your weight for long periods out of the saddle. Although ive done nothing about this and am still looking forward to my next “magic pill” skills course.

weeksy - Member

Mine was a disaster... he taught me to jump... but not to land

I can do that all on my own! 😳

I assume the consensus is that they are helpful particularly with a good coach and particularly in small (max 3) groups so you get the attention you need.

If you'd have told me and my 2 mates I went with we'd be clearing table tops of 6' and for the other 2 a 7' gap jump by the end of the day we'd not have believed you.

Also, the fact we spent a good portion of the day correcting cornering techniques may well have annoyed some people, but it was useful for all of us who had developed a poor technique.

I read something recently that rings true; "practice does not make perfect, practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect permanent". I've been thinking through every commuting corner I've made since.

There's the thing: you can't spend all day doing drills, getting bored and tired as it becomes counter-productive, when you get tired your old bad habits kick back in. Doing half an hour a day for a fortnight is better than a full seven hour day.

Mine was a disaster... he taught me to jump... but not to land

So you're currently in orbit? 8)

So you're currently in orbit?

He'll reply at the same time tomorrow when he passes back over.

I've done two, first was very prescriptive; "you must learn to track stand, then to lift the front wheel, then you must learn this, then that. You must use flat pedals, because otherwise you'll do it wrong...etc", second one was far more 'reactive' for want of a better term, and better for it.

Didn't revolutionise my riding, and I still come across drops on my local trails that are smaller than stuff I rode there, but can't make myself do it. Which is frustrating. But I'm sure I got quicker, and I still consciously think about the stuff I was taught.

There's the thing: you can't spend all day doing drills, getting bored and tired as it becomes counter-productive, when you get tired your old bad habits kick back in. Doing half an hour a day for a fortnight is better than a full seven hour day.

I agree, there is a gap in the market for "piano lesson" type coaching locally based where it's about developing over a period rather than a single day hit

I've done two, first was very prescriptive; "you must learn to track stand, then to lift the front wheel, then you must learn this, then that. You must use flat pedals, because otherwise you'll do it wrong...etc",

It's hard though as most people are likely to have to travel quite a distance.

It's hard though as most people are likely to have to travel quite a distance.

probably why MTB coaching needs to do a rethink, I think that a little though, a friendly farmer or council and then there is a different model that can be locally based

On reflection from the above comments, Coaching vs training... the three best sessions were completely driven by the style and attitude of the coach.

1. Riding with a small guided group in Finale... constant encouragement and yeah, brilliant, well done style done authentically and not overblown or cheesy, worked wonders in tackling challenging stuff

2. MBLA assessment, again, assessors style and attitude were infectious and encouraging.

3. 1:1 half day focussed on a couple of things I wanted to work on.

Drills for skills,
Coaching for confidence*

There must be a good half way house here.
*I just made that up btw.

probably why MTB coaching needs to do a rethink,

Well yes and no.... it's not like you can do it in someones living room like the Piano teacher scenario.

If learning jumps/drops/stuff, you need them things available to teach on.

That model could work at trail centres close to large populations (eg Ashton Court or Swinley). Pay for a block of session, say 5x 1 hour over 5 weeks then you've got the rest of the day to practice at your own pace and the chance to put it into practice during the rest of the week. That's how other sports like tennis do it.

paid £100 to ride around in circles in a field.

i was given 2 or 3 handy tips, but not 1 days worth. I won't bother with another coaching session.

it's not like you can do it in someones living room like the Piano teacher scenario.

People will still travel for good piano tuition even if someone else can provide it more locally.

I actually quite like the idea of having "MTB lessons". There's a wood near me with some berms and jumps. Any volunteers? I can pay in beer and cake 😀

Perhaps not just an hour but a series of half-days might be more worthwhile, would allow people to justify travelling further. Focus on one or two key areas in first session; you go away and practice those as much as possible; next session does a quick recap possibly correcting any errors in your technique then introduces a new skill. Repeat for rest of series.

I went on a public one designed for 8 but only 3 turned up & the Instructor acted like it was a chore for him to be there.

Massive variation in the skill level between us but if you're going to run a course on a notorious hill then you should expect a certain skill level is already established and not spend 2.5 hours getting people to do bunny hops and wheelies in a quarry first.

Instructor raced off to the Café leaving the new guy who didn't know the area pushing his boundaries trying to keep up or he'd be lost with no idea where he was or where he was heading.

Riding up to the hill I explained I could clear the obstacles but wanted to do it more confidently instead of being on the edge and I'm terrible at corners. All I got back was "pump & flow" which made me faster and bloody petrified at one point and maybe 5 goes on a corner because it was getting late.

If 8 had have turned up I doubt I'd have even had a look in. Overall I was disappointed and brought back very little. When I went I was roughly the middle of the pack with my riding mates, I'm still roughly the middle of my riding mates but 80 quid worse off.

A different coaching company near me were suggesting 10 after work sessions of 2 hours but for the price they were charging I can take the whole family to Spain for a week all inclusive... I wonder which one I'm more likely to get more from?

Lawmanmx - Member

not surprised, GW is a Fast skilful rider, a Lot of instructors are 'trained' where he is Experienced, prolly where the wires got crossed

aaaaahahahahahahahhahahahahahah! He'll like that! In fact, he's probably already seen it using his 54th STW username

I am a litte disapointed by a lot of the views being expressed above.

1. No one is naming the coaches (esepcially the bad reviews). Why not? How does that help other people decide which coach to use or help the coach realise that they need to up their game?

2. The courses apper to be very descriptive (you will do this or shut up) coaching should be more about helping some one develop.

These courses are not cheap, and the coaches are supposed to be exactly that, gving instructions on the best way to do some thing is not coaching, a coach should help deliver the best out of some one.

Ive done my fair share of ski instructing / coaching over the years and wouldnt want to work with some of the 'coaches' that have been talked about above.

I've got a session hopefully in the next 6 months with a well known coach. I am now intrigued to see how good they actually are 😀

Sounds like some of you have had a bad time of it. I have had two sessions with Tony "Jedi" doyle of UK bike skills, and they were both excellent and have given me a much improved riding experience.
Tony appears to be dedicated to making you enjoy your riding more, getting more out of it, an being a better rider. He does this by getting into your head and under your skin as a rider, its a Jedi thing.
This translates into faster coners, bigger jumps, better control and less crashing. There was no pointless bullshit, no arrogance or patronising shit. He provides excellent differentiation between the group members, and is able to teach all levels at his purpose built facility. So before any of you write off the idea of skills training because some people have been diddled by "instructors" who don't give a shit about their customers outcomes, go to  http://www.ukbikeskills.co.uk/ and book a session with the Jedi. Book early because he is in demand, he is called Jedi for a good reason.      

In contrast to toys19's post I had a pretty disappointing session at uk bike skills. Maybe I expected too much or caught him on an off day. For what it cost it didn't really work for me. I think maybe it highlights the need to find the right course for you and there isn't a one-course-suits-all

Bottom line is: if you have had coaching at any other sport you will know that they are not actually going to teach you anything in one session. What they ought to give you is something to think about and to take away with you to practice and learn the muscle memory needed to take you the next level.
I went on one with a mate. I went expecting very little, as of course I ride like a god already, and was pleasantly surprised when given a couple of pointers that really worked and cribbed the coached technique for teaching bunny hops, manuals and such that I already could do without actually understanding the constituent parts. Now use those for teaching the offspring very successfully.
For me it was money well spent. Made me think of the "how and why" rather than just doing it as i had since the 80's on a BMX.
I would say that I went on the course not long after getting back on the bike after a fifteen year hiatus and could see the benefits of doing another now I have been riding regularly since then.

nickjb did you discuss this with Jedi? I know lots of peeps who have sern him and he makes a point of not leavibg anyone dissapointed. You should talk to him, I am sure he would prefer to rectify your dissapointment.

No one is naming the coaches

OK, for what it's worth, I went with Great Rock to Delamere forest. Nigel Page did most of the instruction with Ed assisting, but it was very much a case of:

1. talk about what you're supposed to do
2. Have Ed/Nige demo
3. Have a go yourself
4. Receive feedback on what could be done better/worse

I just felt that the group was too big for me to get a lot out of it, although watching Nige and Ed's young lad launch a huge gap jump was impressive. This was a few years ago.

I think my expectations might have been too high

I enjoyed the session with Jedi. I'd love to go back but it's too far to travel reasonably and there's little else to do in the area. I did one in NW and that was OK, wouldn't go back.
I cannot understand why we don't have a decent skills instructor in Brizzle. Let's start a petition to get Box to do it.

In contrast to toys19's post I had a pretty disappointing session at uk bike skills.

I think i know why. I understand Jedi is a top guy and coach but those who rave and rant about his greatness (if this is you, you might want to stop reading now) were pretty damn useless at riding a bicycle. The fact that he showed them something that most people can work out for themselves within 30 minutes of throwing their leg over a bike isn't a reflection of how good he is - it's shows how bad they are at controlling their own body. Lets face it, riding a bike is fairly simple - it's just a bit of physical input and not trying to rewrite the laws of physics. The folk who can't get this on their own would benefit from some coaching if they don't have the time to teach themselves. As said, 1-1 or 1-2 would be the way to go about this.

Same for the mental aspect, if you can't work out how to convince your yourself you can do something then maybe you need a head coach too.

First person who mentions golf/skiing lessons wins a special prize!

stilltortoise - Member

No one is naming the coaches

OK, for what it's worth, I went with Great Rock to Delamere forest. Nigel Page did most of the instruction with Ed assisting, but it was very much a case of:

1. talk about what you're supposed to do
2. Have Ed/Nige demo
3. Have a go yourself
4. Receive feedback on what could be done better/worse

I just felt that the group was too big for me to get a lot out of it, although watching Nige and Ed's young lad launch a huge gap jump was impressive. This was a few years ago.

I think my expectations might have been too high

I think that might be the case. There is no magic wand a coach can wave. Theypoint out what you ought to do, demonstrate it and critique your attempts. They may also add various forms of encouragement or shaming depeding on the context.

WRT: "Cycling in circles in a field" as a disappointment, you would be amazed at the number of fairly experienced mountain bikers i have met/ridden with etc, who have no idea how to do the basics properly.

Now, "cycling in circles in a field" is really rather dull if you've gone on your coaching course after watching endless you-tube videos of people doing the RedBull rampage and back flipping 100yard gaps or whatever, but remember, the people good enough to do that sort of riding you aspire too can already "cycle in circles in a field" so make sure you can too...... 😉

With all these things, you get out what you put in.

You have to be a very arrogant ***wit to think you have nothing to learn.

those who rave and rant about his greatness (if this is you, you might want to stop reading now) were pretty damn useless at riding a bicycle.

I've often wondered if that's the case 😆

If Jedi was nearer to me I'd put my money where my mouth is and try for myself. Since he's a good 6 hour round trip away from me, I want to be absolutely sure it's going to be worthwhile. I don't think there is any way I can be that sure.

Money back guarantee? 😉

what about Pedal Progression in Ashton Court/Bristol. Haven't had a skills day with them, but they are really good riders and really approachable and I imagine would make good instructors. I'll hopefully book a day with them this winter.

Jedi was very good. It is pretty expensive p/hr and was pretty simple tuition for me but he really improved my riding a lot, so I was happy.

maxtorque - Member

WRT: "Cycling in circles in a field" as a disappointment, you would be amazed at the number of fairly experienced mountain bikers i have met/ridden with etc, who have no idea how to do the basics properly.

Now, "cycling in circles in a field" is really rather dull if you've gone on your coaching course after watching endless you-tube videos of people doing the RedBull rampage and back flipping 100yard gaps or whatever, but remember, the people good enough to do that sort of riding you aspire too can already "cycle in circles in a field" so make sure you can too......

With all these things, you get out what you put in.

I enjoyed that part of my day lots, it was raining and wet and you could 'feel' the traction after a while, feel it, judge it, know when you were near the edge and almost work out where the finite limit was.

what about Pedal Progression [b]in Ashton Court/Bristol.[/b]

I know someone who didn't enjoy or benefit from theirs! He won't be posting it on here though, I wouldn't have thought.

what about Pedal Progression in Ashton Court/Bristol.

How on earth are they going to teach a drops/jumps course?

Tempted to give PP a go, but have had such good experiences with Jedi.

mine , MBi, poor ill thought out, no structure, poor value wouldn't go back (was years ago tho)

Forest Freeride, good, didn't 100% "gel" but would consider again, great value

miscellaneous BC L2's, needed better planning but reinforced the basic's, stil practice some of the skills bits, essentially free

is their value in it? well yes, the problem is finding the right people in the right places

those who rave and rant about his greatness (if this is you, you might want to stop reading now) were pretty damn useless at riding a bicycle.
I've often wondered if that's the case

You couldn't be more wrong.

I did a 8 hour round trip to see him with my brother Peterpoddy. I'm pretty good downhill, generally always fastest going down, and love my technical uphills too. However I wasn't confident in my cornering and couldn't jump very well on an MTB. I'd even riding 20 years plus.

I got a great 4 hour lesson which built up from the basics to check where we were up to linking lots of smaller bits together to make a full run down the hill on his special course. He also taught me how to jump doubles pretty successfully.

As far as the cornering went he said it had one of the most natural body positions he had seen but quickly realised I wasn't judging my speed properly and leaving it too late to make corrections. I also wasn't looking far enough ahead of myself.

He offered back up later and was interested in how my riding developed afterwards.

Obviously the day was more complex than I can explain on here but that's the gist.

I think there are a lot of people doing skills courses who haven't got a clue. I met one at Stainburn and I ended up giving at couple of the riders some hints and tips on how to ride a technical section as I had watched them being instructed (I had stopped for lunch) and they weren't getting any proper instruction and worse - no feedback. Basically the instruction they had for a steep chute with rocks and roots was to keep your weight back and that's it. There didn't seem to be any encouraging words or analysis or demonstrations at all. If I could remember who it was who was teaching them I'd name and shame them straight away.

There was a similar situation in one of the Welsh trail centres which also looked as disappointing.

I am not saying I am a riding god (wouldn't have gone on a course otherwise!!) but I can tell decent tuition apart from bad tuition.

You have to be a very arrogant ***wit to think you have nothing to learn.

You would. Luckily no one said that. I [b]did[/b] say if you've been on a course you should stop reading my post. That was partly down to not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings and partly to prevent said people from getting all uppity. If the above wasn't aimed at me them you can ignore this post also.

edit: Robdob. You couldn't go round corners and couldn't jump? How was i wrong? 😀

Been on one.

All Mountain Course at Innerleithen with Andy from Dirtschool.

It didn't turn me into a riding god but he spotted straight away some fundemental mistakes I was making and gave me tips to correct them.

I ditched SPD's for flats and basically started to relearn how to ride a bike off road. I learned to to move around on the bike better and weight up both tyres properly instead of hanging of the back of the bike like a loon and wondering why I had trouble steering!

Yes it seem totally obvious but if no one points it at to you you might never learn

You would. Luckily no one said that. I did say if you've been on a course you should stop reading my post. That was partly down to not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings and partly to prevent said people from getting all uppity. If the above wasn't aimed at me them you can ignore this post also.

They are in Ashton Court and there is LOTS of riding around (not necessarily in it) to do jumps n stuff.

I've been coached by Jedi, loved it so much that the number of people who've gone down to see him off the back of that is in double figures and even if I say so myself, they considered me a tidy rider before that.

However, I went to hadleigh farm Olympic course with a couple of mates and we all thought that the bc coach called John was dreadful. His pre ride briefing seemed designed to rob confidence and became a self fulfilling prophesy.

He didn't coach at all but what was really frightening is that people were thanking him for the coaching because they knew no better. One guy wanted to try a jump, John told him to pull up hard because he had a long stem. First thing to land was his camelbak.

digga - Member
I'm a great believer in the method of finding a mate who's better/faster than you and attempting to follow them. By all means ask a bit of advice, but mainly just try to read them. I do find there are some people who are easy to follow and others who aren't.

I think i know why. I understand Jedi is a top guy and coach but those who rave and rant about his greatness (if this is you, you might want to stop reading now) were pretty damn useless at riding a bicycle. The fact that he showed them something that most people can work out for themselves within 30 minutes of throwing their leg over a bike isn't a reflection of how good he is - it's shows how bad they are at controlling their own body. Lets face it, riding a bike is fairly simple - it's just a bit of physical input and not trying to rewrite the laws of physics. The folk who can't get this on their own would benefit from some coaching if they don't have the time to teach themselves. As said, 1-1 or 1-2 would be the way to go about this.

Same for the mental aspect, if you can't work out how to convince your yourself you can do something then maybe you need a head coach too.

First person who mentions golf/skiing lessons wins a special prize!

I think the people that rant and rave are the people that get the most out of it for whatever reason ie they suddenly find themselves jumping when they couldn't before. If you have a repertoire of skills already, polishing those a little won't make you rant and rave.

I went on a course with Jedi, and only really came away having got a couple of things out of it. It didn't transform my riding, but it did make me think more about it. In fairness to Jedi, he makes no promises about transforming your riding.

Where a lot of people benefit is that Jedi gives you the confidence to do the jumps and drops at his premises, and those that couldn't jump suddenly find themselves sailing over small gap jumps. This is great, but it's done at a controlled speed, in a controlled environment. It's a bit different on the trails, and I suspect many people that visit Jedi and do his array of smaller jumps struggle to covert that to natural stuff on a tricky trail.

He does show how simple it is, and that helps, but if you set your expectations too high you could be disappointed.

@ Euro

I'm interested in investigating the implications of you logic there, linking ability with the need for coaching:

Are you saying any of the following?

> Jedi is not capable of coaching folk with a 'higher skill set' (you define what that is, as it's your assertion)
> You only need a coach if you're crap
> Professional sports folk don't need coaches

Learning anything that involves a skill takes time. Some people will find it easier and some harder. Some will develop to a point far beyond that of others whose rate of improvement will drop off to a point of being negligible.

When you learn something from scratch, you progress quickly as you go from 0 to something, when a certain level of proficiency is alerady there, the learning curve is far flatter.

Anyone who posts on here saying that their riding has improved 100% and that they can't believe the difference a skills course has made is either a complete beginner (nothing wrong with that) or self delusional given they've just parted with a sizable chunk of change.

People who are reasonably proficient should have realistic expectations of how much they are going to learn on such a course.

I should add to my bit above that overall I thought the course was worth the money. It's nice to have a play on dedicated facilities too, and session things to nail them. He's a top bloke too, good to chat to. 🙂

Robdob, your always fastest going down but couldn't jump or corner despite being one of the most natural riders ever seen on a bike !

People will blow smoke up your arse if you pay them enough money,
Where were you riding that was straight down with no corners or jumps and were your fellow riders shit ?

I'm just asking, as I'm half tempted to throw some money at some one to coach me properly, I'm not sure what bad habits I've picked up whilst riding my bike, except scratching my bollox whilst riding and leering at women horse riders in jodhpurs.
No doubt my body positions shit and I shouldn't be wearing SPD's but I don't think that's gonna change much now,

I'm just asking, as I'm half tempted to throw some money at some one to coach me properly,

I suspect you would be wasting your money.