[Closed] Are 29ers now the unwanted child of the bike world?

Yes, it's rather perverse that just as the bike designers got the hang of how to design great 29ers the punters seemed to loose interest. Still, as you say, it does mean there are some great bargains out there.

Some 29ers on the classifieds are absolute steals! Finding it hard to resist...

No, I'd suggest that 'good' 29ers are alive and well and in demand, poor 29er's like most poor bikes will always need 'deals' to sell them

^^ This.
Some 29ers are fantastic, some are crap. The same thing with 650b. All big players (apart from Giant..) have got 29ers in the range. Big discounts on less popular bikes. Around my way its 95% 29ers.

Are a lot of Gnarrmac/gravel/adventure bikes not dressed up 29ers ?

I was chatting to the guy from Orange at a recent demo day and he admitted that thier 29ers didn't sell that well, despite the fact that they were favourites at the factory and almost everybody who tested them seemed to like them (but still bought a Five or an Alpine). Maybe Orange just can't make a good 29er, but I suspect there is something else going on.

Is this a "good" 29er? http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/pivot-les-carbon-29er
Cos I want it so badly!

roverpig

Maybe Orange just can't make a good 29er, but I suspect there is something else going on.

Look at the massive way the industry has thrown it's weight behind 27.5+ (another unproven standard). It seems highly unlikely that there's been any hard science behind this, rather they've seen that fat bikes sell well, and 650b/27.5 sell well, so okay, lets smash them together and cash in.

It does cover a lot of the 29er target market though. Someone who's looking for a bike that's comfortable, grippy and stable and who isn't going to be shredding too much gnar will achieve something similar with both standards.

From an industry point of view, I imagine there's probably some cost saving or potential for streamlining. If they could eliminate 26" and 29" and only leave 650b and 650b+ then they'd potentially have to make less variations of frame, fork, rim, spoke etc etc.

29ers still have a reputation for being XC race bikes and suffer from their old internet criticisms that they are too long and cant turn corners.

Some brands are producing bikes that challenge the reputation and criticism but lots of people aren't listening.

I suspect that was one of Orange's problems

Could it be that the industry has thrown so many variants at the wall in the hpoe that some will stick, causing buyers who intend to keep bikes for more that a couple of years hunker down and wait for the dust to settle.

29 is the next 26

29ers still have a reputation for being XC race bikes and suffer from their old internet criticisms that they are too long and cant turn corners.

Most if not all modern bikes feel a little ponderous to me. That's not always a bad thing, it makes them more capable in more situations, but as someone raised on early 90s Konas which steer like lightning and accelerate like rocketships (ie are fun but flighty) maybe I'm rather biased.
I've decided to stay 26in. I don't care what's 'best' but I know what I like. I did the same as everyone else and went for longer and slacker for a few years but I'm now going shorter and steeper because I prefer the quick handling

I think 29ers are only just finding their feet with the more recent slack, long reach, short rear breed like the smuggler, following etc. Certainly I wouldn't have gone for a full sus 29er until I looked at the Smuggler.

But this is a very fashion led sport and 29ers just aren't as cool as a 650b mince tank, I'm sure many people don't buy 29ers because they don't want to be that guy being weird on a 29er in their group of mates on 650b carbon santa cruz's.

Or it could just be that 2016 bikes are out now and there are bargains to be had on last years remaining stock .

Are a lot of Gnarrmac/gravel/adventure bikes not dressed up 29ers ?

Naaaa.

'Gravel' Bikes originated in the USA as CX bikes with smaller clearances and angles closer to those of racing bikes, a kind of hybrid between CX and road bikes. The idea was bikes for racing and touring on gravel roads which are comparable to fire roads in UK forests, except forests in the USA cover tens of thousands of square miles.

Depending on which brand/marketing department you follow it's been applied to everything from lightweight tourers to what was jokingly called 'monster cross' (XC bike angles and wheels and a CX bike's bar/stem/brakes and short relative to MTB top tube).

29ers are just mountainbikes of any variety with bigger wheels.

I've never really found the criticism that 29ers are slow XC bikes to hold true. The big wheels make rocky trails much easier roll over, and the good ones were no slower steering than any other bike unless you compared apples and oranges with something like a 24/26" jump bike and a Codine (which in itself is no slower steering than something like a 26" Enduro).

I was genuinely surprised by the number of 29ers at the PMBA race on Sunday.

Some riders are still just realising how fast they can be, I reckon.

Ssuk champs was predominantly 29er, but then ss niche wierdos were riding big wheels years before the mainstream even really clocked onto the idea and some tollah shaped niche wierdos where on 650b pacenti shod indy fabs when everyone else thought it was a daft idea bloomin years ago...you mainstream boys are just fashion sheep. 29er will still keep trundling along happily for years yet*

*it may smell of rare beer and odd cheese with a hint of beard oil...but it will still keep trundling*

bigjim

But this is a very fashion led sport and 29ers just aren't as cool as a 650b mince tank, I'm sure many people don't buy 29ers because they don't want to be that guy being weird on a 29er in their group of mates on 650b carbon santa cruz's.

Can't say I agree with that part. When 650b was coming out there will have been many more 29ers on the trail than 650b. So not wanting to be the weird guy, in that context can't make sense.

29ers make sense for some people, but they can't re-write physics. I think it's been proven beyond all doubt that for an average sized rider, even in the context of XC there is no measurable benefit from them that isn't offset by the benefits of a better fitting, better handling bike.

Who cares? if people are too stupid/proud to try the latest generation of "properly" designed 29ers that's their loss. I for one wouldn't have anything else, and I certainly wouldn't want big balloon tyres that inevitably would get torn to shreds in the Lakes. I doubt 29ers will just disappear

I think it's been proven beyond all doubt that for an average sized rider, even in the context of XC there is no measurable benefit from them that isn't offset by the benefits of a better fitting, better handling bike.

That's quite a statement. Link to said proof? Are most XC racers not on 29ers?

bigjim

That's quite a statement. Link to said proof? Are most XC racers not on 29ers?

World Cup overall, mens World Champ and Womens World Champ, all on 650b.

as someone raised on early 90s Konas which steer like lightning and accelerate like rocketships (ie are fun but flighty) maybe I'm rather biased.

My Salsa, with its 71 degree HA, is exactly as responsive as those bikes used to be. Perhaps even more.

I'll be down in Fboro with it next week and the week after if you want a go 🙂

No

cynic-al - Member
29 is the next 26

You mean I've got 2 out of date bikes now?

Oh the shame 😳

You mean I've got 2 out of date bikes now?

Oh the shame

This 😳

I buy a bike about once every 5 years - so I'll be on my 29er for a while yet...

World Cup overall, mens World Champ and Womens World Champ, all on 650b.

but how much pressure are they getting from their sponsors to rid that size - what size would they ride if the choice was down to them ?

A lot of pro golfers play clubs with a cavity back - which is a game improvement feature that the manufacturers want to promote. Out of choice they would very probably play forged blades, and if they are a big enough star to dictate then they do.

I'm still loving my 29er's...and looking at replacing one with another 😳 :oops:will I be hung? lol

You buy a 650b when you want to be somebody.

You buy a 29er when you know who you are.

As with most things in life it's an image thing. Pretty sure 29ers are seen as abit square and 650b are sexy.

jimjam - Member

World Cup overall, mens World Champ and Womens World Champ, all on 650b.

Though, to be fair if schurter was on a 29er he'd probably still be winning. He genuinely does seem to prefer 650b, though.

I think 29ers'll always suffer from the fact that when they first started to get major attention, too many of them sucked balls, and all the early focus was on XC. I rode an old KHS full suss, it was pish, luckily I judged it as a bike not as a wheelsize so it didn't put me off... If you ride a great one- the Five or Remedy frinstance- they're ridiculously good. Best Orange I've ever ridden. But getting people on them in the first place is harder, and it took a long time to get there. And even now I reckon many companies would struggle to actually deliver a good one.

Bottom line... They created the interest in bigger wheels, but it was too big and scary a change for most. 650b offered the perfect combination- a bit of novelty to encourage people to buy new things, but with a change so trivial that nobody was scared of it. Lots of people disliked the change, because of the forced obsolesence of existing bikes but nobody dislikes the wheelsize, because it rides so similiarly to 26. Basically it's the conflict between difference and familiarity.

Links to these 29er deals please?

I like PP's comment about 90's Konas because that's still my favourite 'feel' on an mtb. Recently I bought a new mtb and wanted to go back to basics with riding and just get something with short travel that's nippy and very much an xc bike rather like my first proper mtb a 90's explosif. Something you can just go out and ride up everything on and then push far too hard and scare yourself on the way back down.

ended up with a 29er hardtail, steep HA, short forks and a flat bar. Feels very similar, just a little faster at times.

LOL at mince tank

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/

29er deals aplenty.......but it would appear that there is more 27.5 deals 😕

Yep, certainly better 27.5 deals on Paul's cycles than 29ers.
Any other links?

Evans had some great deals for the BMC 29ers. I got mine used but it was nice that the drop in used prices pushed the used price down 😀

I’ve converted to a 29” FS this year and whilst it is more competent in every way than the 26” that it replaced it can take the thrill out of sections that would previously had by backside squeaking. It doesn’t handle so well at very low speeds and is a bitch to get in the shed.

Would I swap it for an equivalent 26” version? No.

Ssuk champs was predominantly 29er,

Next year there will be a retro category for steel 26 er

I should easily win this race of one rider

Hardly saw any and I brought two 😉

I think that 29ers look and feel a little weird if you're used to 26ers. It certainly took me a while to get used to the idea of a 130mm 29er replacing a 160mm all mountain beast.

The bike I chose is just an excellent bike, period. It fits me just fine, climbs well, descends well and is beautifully balanced. It is genuinely the best bike I've ever ridden, the fact that it has 29" wheels is incidental.

I don't think we'll ever see 29ers die out, we've seen some truly groundbreaking designs from the likes of Specialized, Pivot et al that defy classification and don't alienate those coming over from smaller wheeled machinery.

As for 27.5...well, I've expressed my feelings toward the industry often enough on here for them to be no surprise to anyone. It's clear that manufacturers are looking for the next niche thing to reinvigorate the market and sell as many mountain bikes as were sold in the 90s heydays, but I believe the constant reinvention of standards will bring about the opposite effect.

[i]Next year there will be a retro category for steel 26 er[/i]

I've got 2 of those! (Only 1 is SS though)

orld Cup overall, mens World Champ and Womens World Champ, all on 650b.

Not sure three sponsored riders winning counts as proof beyond doubt 😆

Well one of my two 'out of date' bikes is certainly retro* and is indeed ss.

*1990 steel framed Fisher.

From an industry point of view, I imagine there's probably some cost saving or potential for streamlining. If they could eliminate 26" and 29" and only leave 650b and 650b+ then they'd potentially have to make less variations of frame, fork, rim, spoke etc etc.

That makes little sense… if they wanted to minimise variations in kit and frames then they for for 29er and 650b+ only.

bigjim

Not sure three sponsored riders winning counts as proof beyond doubt

The word you're looking for though is dominating, not winning. But my point is this, the percieved benefits of 29 particularly in relation to XC can be negated by rider fitness and skill, so is there a benefit? Does it even exist at all if Schurter and Prevot are crushing everyone on 650b?

Accepted logic is that 29ers are best for XC and yet Prevot and Schurter crushed the field on 650b.

I believe I am right in saying Nino said he felt 29ers were fastest in test the swiss Olympic team did but it was impossible for him to get his desired position on one.

orld Cup overall, mens World Champ and Womens World Champ, all on 650b.
Not sure three sponsored riders winning counts as proof beyond doubt

I agree, however playing that game then Womens EWS champ is on 29er and Im sure she could be on the 650b version if she wanted to