[Closed] Anyone up Snowdon yesterday on bike (Sat)? Naughty naughty....

Every right to be there.
Doesn't give them the right to ride like ****s.
Speed Perception of walkers can be skewed.

Llanberis route is sooo dull!!! If she liked that she'll spaff all over the Pyg/Miners

I've seen a few hammer down Llanberis when there were plenty of people walking on it - really dum-ass behavoir. Not least cos Rangers is waaay more fun [i]and[/i] less populated.

Grumpy person meets idiot. Nothing to see here.

Of course the bikes shouldn't be walked down, both sides need to be considerate (in this case the riders should have waited for the walker to pass, or at least slowed right down as they met).

All you have to do is shout STRAVAAAAAA

I sit on the steering group that monitors the Voluntary Agreement, and therefore by definition, MTBing on the mountain and even in the NP in general, and incidents like this damage all the good work that has been done by mtbers on Snowdon.

If people don't know the history, it is simple, the Brideways on the mountain were going to receive a TRO (traffic restriction order) and cycling would have been banned - end of. The voluntary agreement saved the situation and has worked well, and now the National Park look very favourably at mtbers. But it won't take many of these incidents to turn that round again.

Sadly, the mountain has got busier and busier over the last few years (since the agreement was put in place), and now it's just not worth going up on weekends outside of roughly the agreement times eg down before 10 or up after 5. It's not that it's inconvenient for walkers, it's just not worth it as it becomes unrideable - up or down. If someone can host it, I'll post a picture of the summit on Oct 2 last year. You can't see the mountain for people - it's like looking at a busy shopping mall.

The forecast was awesome for this saturday and it was obvious it would be busy and that there would be trouble up there.

I think sadly, we all need to realise how crazy things are on Snowdon these days and plan our trips for weekdays or if we can't do that, for first thing/last thing in the day. And it would be great if we could try and spread this kind of message rather than having these debates after the event.

I'll post a picture of the summit on Oct 2 last year. You can't see the mountain for people

Not a realistic view as anyone can go up on the train. Even fat people.

[url= http://metro.co.uk/2016/09/22/pensioner-told-he-cant-get-on-train-because-of-fat-family-6144027/ ]Clump[/url]

Snowdon has had an excellent, objective view that everyone can use the mountain with a bit of give and take. A few nobs being nobby will put paid to that.

But it's too busy to be much fun, and I can't see the point in doing it just because it's high. There's more fun to be had in other parts of Wales that don't have the crowds.

Sorry dude, but it's seriously realistic view from well below the summit and out of range of the train. I work as a walking guide on the mountain all year round and see just how many people walk up there. I agree it's too busy to be fun, at weekends, especially during the day. At 6 in the morning on a weekday, it's awesome...

One path for bikes and one for walkers. Or is that too difficult?

I was thinking it wasn't that busy when I was last up there:

[img] https://goo.gl/SDOrup [/img]

...and I was alone when I was on the top

Though that was a Friday evening in March about half an hour before sunset!

Sadly it is too difficult, a legal right of access exists for pedestrians on the mountain and in general it's not abused and unlikely to be taken away from them. A right of access also exists for cycling on some paths (the bridleways), where this access is shared with pedestrians. If this right is abused, which is what this thread is about, then this right will be taken away... Worth remembering the numbers here, this is almost certainly the world's most climbed mountain with over 500,000 people standing on its summit each year... it's amazing there isn't more conflict, but there needs to be less...

Idiots need to stop being idiots, obviously, but out of curiosity, if half a million people go up there each year, how often do these incidents occur?

Clearly not nice for the walkers involved, but some perspective on the scale of the actual problem is always useful.

I'm not sure how these one off events should effect the current access rights which mtbguiding mentioned.

For a starters, to take the views of a forum write up as evidence of what actually occurred is crazy in itself and to base that as a 'situation'.

You don't know the actual scenario, what actually happened. Plenty of people I come across jump 20ft to the side and panic unnecessarily even though you've shouted with plenty of warning and slowed down to their approach to a considerably low speed >5mph.

What do they consider fast, how much warning did they have, where was it? What was the vision like.

You get idiots in all walks of life, lets not take a few sentences as the truth and make far fetched judgements.

One path for bikes and one for walkers. Or is that too difficult?

Yes, lets build a trail centre on the mountain 🙄

Idiots need to stop being idiots

Good luck with that one.

Was it last year or the year before when some chump kept driving a Frontera to the summit and leaving it there? It doens't matter what the rules are, there will always be some clots.

I did it years ago and got a good reception up and down from walkers and train peeps and it was all very friendly.

As munrobiker says above though, it takes 2 chumps in each direction and it's suddenly an issue. Helpfully blown out of proportion on a Red Sock forum.

Whereas on here it's all constructive 🙂

Snowdon's a waste of a ride if you're on a bike TBH, unless you've never done it and you're desperate to tick it off your list, I wouldn't bother on a weekend, there's just far too many walkers to make it worth it. Especially if you want to go down Rangers as its harder if you have to continually stop to let walkers past

[quote=ScottChegg ]Helpfully blown out of proportion on a Red Sock forum.
Whereas on here it's all constructive

The other thread still only has replies from a cyclist hater and the OP, so it's not exactly creating a huge storm.

We did it in the depths of winter and it was busy enough to need to sop occasionally but still fun. Can't see the point riding it when busy and that'd be no fun for you or the walkers.

Problem with situations like the OP is that we don't know both sides. I can comfortably ride at moderately high speed and pass by someone missing them by a few inches, its not a hard skill if you can ride a bike. I don't partly because they might suddenly move but mainly because it'll feel unsafe to them even if it isn't. A few times I've slowed down to not much more than walking pace, shouted my excuse me or hello and been ignored then passed with a massive gap and still had the walker jump out of their skin or mutter something about danger. In this case was it some crazy loon hooning by at great speed or an oversensitive walker who didn't want to share the path? I suspect somewhere in the middle

Sad truth is, we don't need to know both sides, all we need is people complaining directly to the NP... and it happens. Like I said, I reckon that considering the numbers, there are amazingly few issues, but if we want continued access, and even better, increased access to other parts of the national park, which is on the cards, then we could really do with fewer... The real moral of the story I am sure, is not to ride it during the day on a weekend.

FunkyDunc

Yes, lets build a trail centre on the mountain

YES Lets do that. There's already an uplift installed. We just need to ban all walkers from the mountain and build some trails.

At last - a response on the walker forum:

Same here I was there in August and the Llanberis route was very busy , and 3 mountain bikers came down at some speed and walkers had to part in the middle to let them by. Ive nothing against mountain bikers but they are asking for it really arnt they? If they come off there bike then they only have there self to blame, or if I was in a big group personally I wouldn't move over for them I would let them dismount there bike and walk round us.
Why choose this route when its so busy when they could cycle anywhere in the area.

Sigh.

Whenever a story like this pops up, it's always that the rider "almost" knocked someone over. "Almost" sent someone flying. "Almost" threw a bus-load of toddlers over a cliff to their deaths.

There is very little "actual" harm done by MTBers to...well...anyone. Because if there was, we'd never ****ing hear the end of it.

Of course people should ride courteously. It's just that even the most tolerant and reasonable of walkers would rather not have to share "their" byways with people on bikes. So they tend to exaggerate the most innocuous of incidents.

YES Lets do that. There's already an uplift installed. We just need to ban all walkers from the mountain and build some trails.

And why don't they......Oh lemme see is it because they don't give a gnats chuff and would carry on regardless like they did when they had their little strop of a mass trespass?

Maybe we should have a mass bike ride on Snowdon, do you really think if we said OK lets have half and half custody rights you can have the little hill Monday to Weds and we will have Thurs to Friday, there wouldnt be a public Shit fit about access.

I have said this before on the topic a voluntary ban?? What's voluntary about being told you cant do something between certain hour?

I have said this before on the topic a voluntary ban?? What's voluntary about being told you cant do something between certain hour?

I guess you didnt actually read the thread then.

it is simple, the Brideways on the mountain were going to receive a TRO (traffic restriction order) and cycling would have been banned - end of. The voluntary agreement saved the situation and has worked well, and now the National Park look very favourably at mtbers

Why choose this route when its so busy when they could cycle anywhere in the area.

At the end of the day there are way, way more people who walk up and down the mountain than there are people who cycle. So if one group has to go in the interests of the majority then it's not too difficult to work out which one it'll be. I was up there a week ago on a cold, windy and wet (at the top) Sunday and the mountain was still very busy. We rode down slowly and conscientiously when people were around and had narry a problem. One lad even offered to help push/carry the bike up the staircase (offer politely rejected due to pride). At the end of the day we are tolerated on the mountain and given the number of people who choose to walk it that seems to be fair to me. So we have to be considerate and accept that if we're going to ride down it when busy we're going to have to compromise how we ride.
In fairness the thread linked to isn't all bad and not really a rant per se, just an aside. Anyway, I'll be walking up and down it this weekend, keeping a sharp eye out for any riders blatting their way down in my general vicinity.. 😉

I presume the TRO would be issued by the council. Im sure the locals would be thrilled with a chunk of their customers being banned from the area

The problem is that walkers all go to the same place as they have no imagination. They have all the summits in the area to choose from but most choose the same hill. Legitimate Mountain Bike access is very limited in North Wales and if you exclude Snowdon there are very few other tracks outside the trail centers.

Some people are just grumpy gits who don't like seeing other people having any fun, or sharing the trails with people who use a different mode of transports to themselves. It's the same old with walkists/bikist/horsist/motorists. Have see it time and time again over the last 30 years as a hill/mountain user from all viewpoints (except on horseback, they are hateful things).

FunkyDunc - Member
One path for bikes and one for walkers. Or is that too difficult?
Yes, lets build a trail centre on the mountain

So, they take an already busy mountain and put a ****ing train on it, but the idea of putting a nice trail, free from walkers, down the side of it that MTBers could enjoy with minimal conflict is ridiculous?

The incident could have been anywhere from a one off incident from a normally courteous biker to someone who doesn't get out of the way and expects bikes to walk past them because why should they share the path, to a biker that got annoyed at all the numpty redsocks and decided to buzz a few of them shoutint "STRAVA" at the top of his lungs, but it's one incident, with zero injuries and no proven blame, so WGAF?

The incident could have been anywhere from a one off incident from a normally courteous biker to someone who doesn't get out of the way and expects bikes to walk past them because why should they share the path, to a biker that got annoyed at all the numpty redsocks and decided to buzz a few of them shoutint "STRAVA" at the top of his lungs, but it's one incident, with zero injuries and no proven blame, so WGAF?

Did you read the linked post? or the one from the guy on the access group? You should care.

3 mountain bikers came down at some speed and walkers had to part in the middle to let them by

I liked this comment....must have been a right chore to move to the side of the path for all of 2 seconds...

The problem here is the 'them' and 'us' mentality that seems to pervade every aspect of our lives these days.
It can't just be 'people out for an enjoyable day in the countryside', it has to be 'us walkers' and 'those mountain bikers'....

I wonder how many times that day the bloke having a moan had stopped to let someone past on foot, or moved out the way of a faster walker/group of walkers etc. But that's OK because "we're all walkers" - they're one of us......but that bloody mountain biker, riding his bike down the mountain; we had to get out of his way.....and he might have almost but not quite got close to very nearly being in danger of brushing my arm, but he didn't because he was miles away....but it could've happened....

😐

Did you read the linked post? or the one from the guy on the access group? You should care.

And yet, as someone who hasn't ridden Snowdon, but will if the mood takes me regardless of the rights of way present, I don't care. (I would of course follow the voluntary agreement at the moment).

Really; even if doing so helps lead to all bikes being banned from it? Go you!

Remember, we only have ourselves to blame if we fall off our bikes

We did it as a large group the other Saturday (20 of us with bikes!!!) . It was busy, Much busier than I imagined. However the majority of people we passed all greeted us with smiles and giggles. (even whoops and claps on the way down 🙂 ) there were a few grumpy faces but as we were not any where near where these people were walking they were just those sorts of folks I guess.

It’s a great ride down (imo) and something to be ticked off. Take it for what it is and not a trail center or a remote pass and you’ll be fine. If you want to thrash it down, pass people closely or any other such nonsense then I cant see why people would want to do it on snowdon? Walkers shared laughs with us as I (admittedly pushed a lot of it) on the way up. It was good.

But then again you get some people that are like “I will ride it whenever and a ban wont stop me”. Or “I can ride as fast as I want its not my problem”. Possibly these are the same people that end up running over folks at high speed on local “trails” I put these sorts of people firmly in the selfish knobbers camp. Its give and take. If its not your thing then don’t do it but don’t bloody ruin it for the rest of us.

Really; even if doing so helps lead to all bikes being banned from it? Go you!

Exactly...

I can comfortably ride at [b]moderately high speed[/b] and pass by someone missing them by [b]a few inches[/b], its not a hard skill if you can ride a bike.

You are kidding, right? 😐

No wonder most of the populace thinks we're knobends.

You are kidding, right?

You trying for 'Selective Quoter of the Day' or something? He said he could if he wanted, but that he doesn't.

I can comfortably ride at moderately high speed and pass by someone missing them by a few inches, its not a hard skill if you can ride a bike. I don't partly because they might suddenly move but mainly because it'll feel unsafe to them even if it isn't.

1009 views...only 8 responses to the OP and 2 of them are mine!
They can't be [i]that[/i] bothered then....not bothered enough to offer an opinion anyway.

I used to ride with a bunch of people (one in particular) who used to ride down shared trails like he was fleeing from an avalanche. No matter what was said or how many times he almost hit someone, he wouldn't listen: I was continually following behind him apologising to the people he'd almost maimed. I stopped riding with him.

IME, and sorry it's a such a stereotype, but it's one because it's true, the younger the walker, the more likely they are to engage and to even enjoy watching others have fun on Snowdon. The, er older generation, are very much in the "we want this place to ourselves" mindset ime. Last time i did snowdon, the vast majority of walkers, actually enjoyed watching us ride down what they though to be "unridable" bits of the mountain, yet, a very few, gave us the nasty face or mutter comments under their breath about "wrecking the path" or similar (because of course, about 100 million tonnes of stone is going to get "damaged" by a few bikes riding down it......

And as mentioned, if there are so many of these "near misses" how come there never seem to be any actual hits? Surely if it were so dangerous, people would actually be getting hit??

or if I was in a big group personally I wouldn't move over for them I would let them dismount there bike and walk round us

see I knew people did this. There was me thinking they were just deaf. 'EXCUSE ME, WATCH OUT, EXCUSE ME' nope, just obstinate.

[img] [/img]
nehhhh ya buggers..

Rather than divided by age, I find walkers are generally much better away from the tourist hotspots, largely out there looking for the same kind of enjoyment as the rest of us, just in a slightly different way, and I have had plenty of old walkers say they would have loved mountain biking.

I find walkers are generally much better away from the tourist hotspots,

Definitely this. You're more or less guaranteed to find some miserable buggers on legitimate low-level BWs such as Loughrigg Terrace, no matter how considerately you trundle up to them, but even on cheeky high-level routes, I've yet to encounter anything but smiles and hellos.

I guess you didnt actually read the thread then.

Oh I did and every time I read that kind of self serving crap I just YAWN

Honestly who gives a monkeys about a TRO do you think ramblers would abide by conditions put in place, track record says no sir we wanna do what we wanna do, wilful trespass, moral victory

Problem with MTB riders is they are toothless, no one cares about your rights or opinions

Honestly who gives a monkeys about a TRO

Sorry, but I and many other mtbers around here give a very big monkeys' It's my local trail - I can ride it from my door - and I also guide on it. And much as I wouldn't expect to bugger up other people's local trails when I ride on them, I'd prefer it if people wouldn't come here and bugger up mine.

Sad truth is, we don't need to know both sides, all we need is people complaining directly to the NP... and it happens. Like I said, I reckon that considering the numbers, there are amazingly few issues, but if we want continued access, and even better, increased access to other parts of the national park, which is on the cards, then we could really do with fewer...

As you are involved in the discussions I would point out that increasing access would disperse the numbers and reduce conflict

If they don't get it then sadly philxx1975 has a point

In any case access changes need to be gained before ebikes get more common muddying the issues more

Older people or people with mobility issues, even very experienced ones, often feel more vulnerable than an experienced, younger cyclist.

I get a lot of this from the older members of our climbing club.
They have just as much right as we do to enjoy the mountains.

Our club hut is opposite Snowdon. Rarely see inappropriate behaviour by anyone, but unless you've been up there you really have no idea how busy it gets and how many people are inexperienced and/or under prepared.

It's a lot more dangerous than most people think, especially at this time of year - everyone underestimates it due to its popularity.

Given the above, it doesn't take much sense to realise that big groups are better done at first light and during the week, if you can.

Bit of consideration and everyone gets to enjoy the place for a while.

To be fair to the walkers forum the general consensus, at the moment, is quite positive towards bikes

To be fair to the walkers forum the general consensus, at the moment, is quite positive towards bikes

.

can you take the bike up on the train.....?

Sorry, but I and many other mtbers around here give a very big monkeys' It's my local trail - I can ride it from my door - and I also guide on it. And much as I wouldn't expect to bugger up other people's local trails when I ride on them, I'd prefer it if people wouldn't come here and bugger up mine.

Translated

me me me me me me me me me me I want recognition for guiding me me me me me me

get off my lawn!!

So how does this benefit anyone else other than you, it doesn't as long as your ok buster "the biggest act of civil disobedience " was carried out by your rambling masters old boy, but you keep pandering to them.

Says the guy who'd mess it up for everyone.

Says the guy who'd mess it up for everyone.

Does your mum still wipe your backside then , or do you have to ask for permission on everything? Need approval? Need to feel warm and fuzzy by belonging?

Half term again, clearly.

It's all about respect, the voluntary ban is abused and a lot of riders choose to ignore it. I see a lot of mountain bikers come off the mountain within the voluntary ban window.

When riding in others parts of the country I make sure my actions do not risk local riders loosing access etc.

Visiting riders should do the same on Snowdon.

It's all about respect

God you lot are sheep .

Half term again, clearly

Why because someone wont conform with your "Iv'e been here so long I'm always right attitude" Yes of course it is

philxx1975 - Member
It's all about respect
God you lot are sheep .

And you are coming across as a cocky, arrogant and ignorant arsehole, determined to do what you want, when you want, and sod the consequences for the wider cycling community.

I know which I'd sooner be. Baaaaaaa!

Back off guys before he does a broady and tells us to swivel

And you are coming across as a cocky, arrogant and ignorant arsehole, determined to do what you want, when you want, and sod the consequences for the wider cycling community.

And I know which I would rather be too sunshine.

phil - you're sounding like a bit of a silly boy.
You seem like the type that the redsocks are having a pop at, it has to be said.

I can't remember ever being angry on here reading someone's posts. Amused, confused, bemused, even concerned. But never angry, reading your c#$p philxx1975 has made it a first. Why don't you just #### off.
P.s
Don't care about the swear filter avoidance 🙁

phil - you're sounding like a bit of a silly boy.

How so , your quite happy to just let the woolly socks brigade call the shots and in some thinly veiled "agreement" ride your bike when they tell you because it suits you not to argue.

On the other hand I see the woolly sock brigade pulled a massive coup a while back and tell everyone in a cocky, arrogant and ignorant arsehole kind of way, determined to do what they want, when they want, and sod the consequences en masse might I add

On the other hand I see the woolly sock brigade pulled a massive coup a while back and tell everyone in a cocky, arrogant and ignorant arsehole kind of way, determined to do what they want, when they want, and sod the consequences en masse might I add

Link please?

Same up here, busy weekends you get the knobbers racing down carron crag, breasty haw etc. Jeopardizing events and races but no, everyone else is in the wrong, blah blah

Link please?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_trespass_of_Kinder_Scout

breasty haw etc

What, the BW?

No, the western end purple walking path (starts at the top of the bogle crag fire road climb). Its bloody good, midweek, or early doors but usually quite busy sat/sun afternoon

Its bloody good, midweek, or early doors but usually quite busy sat/sun afternoon

Noted! 🙂

I must admit, I generally only get up there at weekends, so such delights are off-limits.

Kinder Scout??

& that's your justification for your attitude now??

Mate, that was over 75 years ago & you're still carrying a grudge.....get over yourself!

I admit MTB access is in need of revision......but picking a fight with fellow riders is not what I'd call a constructive approach.

If you are really into advocacy then why not join a club/organisation & do it through them. Otherwise, it does rather sound like you're using restricted access & your fight for better access as an excuse to behave rather inconsiderately..

(My apologies if you are already involved in MTB advocacy)

& that's your justification for your attitude now??

No my justification is that same that same attitude that won back then is the cornerstone for some of those groups to admonish or restrict other users rights as the longest standing cadre.

What im saying is "if" you tried that today to gain some kind of accessfor bikers ,they would shoot you to shit and bury your argument, so what do "you do" accept whats served up by those who somehow seem to have garnered a position to say who does what.

I asked this before, lets take another area then rather than poor Mr welsh pants getting all angry for the first time in his life.

If I go to another area where 1/2 a million people go each year and tell the ramblers association "ooh sorry chaps the bikers have priority here you can go up hill and down dale before sunrise and after dusk" what do you think the answer would be , lets negotiate?

......but picking a fight with fellow riders is not what I'd call a constructive approach.

I think this sums up some of the fellow riders here http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out, Mr Lebowski you don't seem a bad chap.

Bit of consideration and everyone gets to enjoy the place for a while.

Which is the best way for everyone to behave

The pressure on Snowdon should be driving wider access in the NP. The removal of access should not be based on user conflict especially where there are clear solutions building on the work by various groups to date and the willingness of riders to be considerate.

duckman - Member
Really; even if doing so helps lead to all bikes being banned from it? Go you!

Are you saying that riding it after a ban has been imposed will lead to a ban or that following the voluntary agreement will lead to a ban?

Why are we arguing over MTB behavior when we know that in reality it was a non-incident exaggerated by a keyboard warrior? As said on the first pages, these accidents waiting to happen involving walkers just don't (well OK very occasionally do but they're vanishingly rare).

One point that is being missed is that it is part of the National Parks remit to encourage visitors, if they are too successful they shouldn't be reducing access for one user group they should be trying to spread the load (and therefore the visitors) out

The regular quoting of the Kinder Trespass is quite funny really. Unless I misunderstand it, the Kinder trespass was the masses (working class wanting access to the hills) against the few (landed gentry). Typical of most protests really. The one being suggested here is the few (mtbers) protesting against the many (walkers/tourists/authorities etc). Think I can see how this one might end:)

Great to see the majority of my fellow mtbers can see a need for respect and consideration for others 🙂

I agree with you in general - and certainly a protest of bikers against walkers is going nowhere. But it's worth bearing in mind that those walkers who are anti bike are the few - best we keep it that way by being nice rather than radical.

A similar style protest for increased access where we're not against the walkers might be a possibility - but that's a different subject and personally I feel that simply doing what I currently do and riding cheeky trails is a better approach to achieve acceptance by the drip, drip approach. Given the context I should point out that the code of conduct for doing so is to avoid conflict, hence riding Snowdon paths when they're busy isn't part of that, whether or not during banned hours or on RoWs.