[Closed] anyone tried those kevlar brake pads from superstar?

i dont know how good they are for long alpine descents but me and my brother both used them in wales with no problems.

They squeal a lot in the wet and the braking power seems a bit poo. In the dry though i love them.

great in the alps got through a pair each end in a week. which is about normal. really powerful though.

not tried them in the wet.

good in the dry - last 2 mins in the wet.

do a search there was a long thread a few weeks back....stick with sintered for the wet rides

How about searching on here - this comes up evey now and then.

a weeks use satisfactory? Get over - a years use is reasonable.

TJ do you ride all week in the Alps?

Rode them in the Alps for a week earlier this summer. They were fine. Not a fan of most Superstar stuff but would recommend these. Lots of bite, noticeably more than the previous organic pads I had fitted.

they'll be grand. having just used some disco pads, i'd use superstar over them. not in terms of performance (never noticed much difference tbh), but simply because the superstar package is SO much easier to get into.

I htink they're good. I don't ride in the alps, I've had them in for about 200 miles, including 5 hours of 10 @ kirroughtree, they're half worn.

No I don't Al - however I simply don't believe that the wear rates some people seem to get from brakes is reasonable. All sorts of excuses are given for this absurdly high wear rate from alpine descents to the local grit in the peaks. However I don't believe that the alps in the dry causes hundreds of times more wear than other riding.

Its very clear not everyone gets these absurdly high wear rates. I never have despite riding in places and conditions that some folk get this absurdly high wear rates. I have done some alpine riding.

I get thousands and thousands of miles out of hope original sintered. Any pads I had that wore out in a couple of hundred miles would be returned as not fit for purpose.

My SSC Kevlar pads glazed over several times now back to the sintered variety without problem.

I agree with TJ (this time) as my pads seem to hold up pretty well and I'd be unimpressed if they lasted a week in the UK. That said I can understand the Alps comment as I can easily do more braking in a week than I would do in a year in the UK. They are big and steep and I'm a mincer

not managed to wear out a set of SS pads yet. just manage to keep contaminating them 🙁 they really don't like getting cleaning fluids on them (gold sintered)

Although I swapped out a set of kevlar (red) pads half way round cwmcarn and went back to sintered (gold) as the kevlar weren't working at all for me....

I get thousands and thousands of miles

not relevant though - we were descending some where in the region of 2-3k vertical each day. 15000m of descent sounds ok to me.

thats about 3 months of my normal riding.

One man's Alpine riding is a lot different to someone elses, so the comments about unacceptable wear rate in that time are meaningless. For the record, I did 7 days riding amounting to ~ 25 hours on the bike and the set I had still had plenty of life left in them when I got back.

FWIW 'The Alps' are quite varied. A lot of difference between some of the 1 hour slow, technical and tight trails that I tend to ride over there and 25 minute all out blasts on a fast track.

For the price they are worth it, even IF they did wear out in a week. In my experiece though they won't.

TJ, really, a weeks riding in the Alps on one set of pads is quite reasonable. You simply don't brake as long or as hard in the UK.

From memory, you use Hope brakes yes? The Mini Monos I had were brilliant on pads. They lasted me 18 months or more, but they weren't as powerful as my current Maguras, which I usually get around 6-8 months from a set of cheap pads, or 9-10 from Magura pads.
But with reference to the grit thing, if I then go to Swinley Forest on a wet day, I'll ruin a set of the very same pads with ease in one ride of under 20 miles, even if they're new. Swinley eats pads just as bad as the Peaks do it seems.
Then taking the same brakes with the same pads to the Alps, I got through a partly (Say 1/4 worn) set of pads in 3-4 days, becasue I'm braking so much
Please try telling me that's nothing to do with the conditions! Just becasue you've found one thing, doesn't make it right for everyone else old bean! 🙂

Yes, sintered pads will last longer, even at Swinley, but Maguras are organic only which suits me fine. I'm quite happy with the wear rate I get for the stupid amount of power I'm still getting from 2 sets of brakes that are 4 and 3 years old respecively. 🙂

Although never ridden in the alps i can see how continous hauling down of your 40+lb downhill 'machine' for nearly a week none stop could make you go through a set of pads. Bit like if you take your car on trackdays then expect your set of tyres which usually last 20000 miles to last 2000, its common sense really.
I'm trying out these f1 components brake pads which i found on fleabay for a fiver just now. After 1 ride there starting to bite at last and they dont squeal like clarks pads. I simply refuse to spend £15+ on a set of avid pads

hungry monkey - Member

"they'll be grand. having just used some disco pads, i'd use superstar over them. not in terms of performance (never noticed much difference tbh), but simply because the superstar package is SO much easier to get into."

😆 yeh i know exactly what you mean, i ended up leaving some of the packaging on my sintered pair all the plastic gets stuck around the metal clip! anyway, not too bothered about the wear rate, a week downhilling in the alps is pretty reasonable i think for a kevlar pair!, think i'll order some, cheers guys.

In one wet Verbier descent (Nuthouse) I got through the pad including backing plate and 1/4 of the caliper piston. 😳

PP - I agree the conditions make a difference but not hundredfold - however it ain't that simple - some folk still do not get the wear in places some people do. Its a complex multifactorial thing but I still don't believe a couple of hundred miles no matter how hard the brakes are used in dry conditions is satisfactory.

do I brake less in a couple of years riding than you do in a week in the alps? and thats wet as well as dry riding.

do I brake less in a couple of years riding than you do in a week in the alps?

Yes.

I seem to remember Mark at Ciclo Montana mentioning that he gets between 3 & 4 weeks out of a set of pads out in the Sierra Nevada mountains & he knows the trails so well that he hops, skips & jumps over stuff that most people would be braking/swearing/skidding down.

With regards to the original question, I have used the organic SSC pads for several years now without issue. For some reason, I thought I'd try sintered for the last lot but haven't needed to fit them yet. I haven't tried the Kevlar ones. A mate is using them though and reckons they work well.

Don't do Alpine descents too often 🙁 But they are working well on my XC bike doing alpine speeds 😉

They're good - lasted me a week in the Alps and while longer

You lot seem to get good life out of your pads, I must have a mini-bermuda triagle around my rear elixir then. I thought I'd give the Kevlars a go in the Alps recently and ended up getting 1 (one) run per set SS of pads. I switched back to trusty A2Z pads after going though all four sets of pads I had and everything was fine again.

good in the dry, wear fast in the wet but the 4 packs are such good value that it doesn't matter.

MY ss kevlar pads have outlasted my avid originals on my codes. SS pads are brill.

I havent actually ridden my SS Kevlars in the wet yet! They've been in a couple of months so far.
Liking the power.

As usual kids, make sure you bed them in properly first.

Might switch over to sintered for the winter, but thats a few months away yet.

Same as how long is a piece o string.
I normally get through a set of sintered pads every 12months or so(incl odd trip to fort-bill etc.

BUT! during the strathpuffer last Jan, I used 3 sets of sintered(crazy).

Can't speak for alpine descents but I brutalised mine at fort william, all the way down the DH course with both brakes deathgripped on in terror the whole way They didn't even grumble. If they'd melted I'd still say they're decent pads considering the way they've performed the rest of the time tbh.

I just replaced that set, they'd done maybe 800 miles including that and some other uplifting plus all weather XC rides and still have a good amount of life left but I wanted fresh ones in before we go off to France. Very good indeed. They were never put through really gritty pad-eating mud though, pentlands mud doesn't seem to hurt pads as badly. I'd highly recommend them. Though having said that I'm still taking some organics with me just in case.

Now...

Just to quickly put TJ's inevitable Superstar-slating into perspective, check out this thread:

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/superstar-components-and-10-under-the-ben

Where he declared that this, after 4 laps ck enduro, was "unfit for purpose." and "simply not acceptable"

But then when shown what happened to new Hope[i] sintered[/i] pads in the exact same number of laps said "Were they bedded in?" and "It's a conundrum" but not "Unfit for purpose".

Sorry TJ... But it's true.

Just stuck a set in today for a day's downhilling in Pila. Performance was good, slightly softer lever feel than with sintered. Haven't looked yet to see what a day at Pila did to them (it's pretty brutal!).

For what it's worth, I generally get about 2-3 weeks out of a set of pads during the chairlift season. Hayes original sintered more like 3 weeks, Superstar sintered more like 2, but I'm not complaining. Performance has been excellent in my Hayes, a bit screechy in Iona's Formula Oros.

Just stuck a set in today for a day's downhilling in Pila. Performance was good, slightly softer lever feel than with sintered. Haven't looked yet to see what a day at Pila did to them (it's pretty brutal!).

For what it's worth, I generally get about 2-3 weeks out of a set of pads during the chairlift season. Hayes original sintered more like 3 weeks, Superstar sintered more like 2, but I'm not complaining. Performance has been excellent in my Hayes, a bit screechy in Iona's Formula Oros.

Northwind - you got me a bit out of context on both those but I can't be bothered arguing. I wasn't intending to be snidey about SS on this thread altho I can see it would be taken as that.

Any pad that lasts so little time something has gone wrong and I find it amazing that people will accept this - I wouldn't no matter what the pad. I have never experienced it even in conditions that others do. Pad life should be thousands of miles

It is clearly far more than conditions tho they play a part otherwise people wouldn't be able to ride identical setups in identical conditions and get dramatically different wear rates.

Any pad that lasts so little time something has gone wrong and I find it amazing that people will accept this - I wouldn't no matter what the pad. I have never experienced it even in conditions that others do. Pad life should be thousands of miles

It is clearly far more than conditions tho they play a part otherwise people wouldn't be able to ride identical setups in identical conditions and get dramatically different wear rates.

Both these statements are meaningless as there has been no scientific or even congruent anecdotal evidence, what there is evidence of here though is that people shouldn't always listen to TJ because he doesn't listen either, he only believes what he wants to believe..

As far as I know TJ is a nurse, well I'm a ruddy good engineer and for me so far SS pads have been as good as OE. I've had OE pads last a long time and wear out in no time on shimano and avid, and SS pads wear out in no time and last a long time on Avid brakes. When my pads of any variety wore out quickly there were factors such as alps or shite winter weather involved. When they lasted a long time it was the summer and I was doing XC. I think environmental conditions and usage could easily have 100 fold or even 1000 fold impact on pad life. Thats S>C>I>E>N>C>E fact, not some blubbering made up by a nurse.

"Northwind - you got me a bit out of context on both those"

I did link the entire thread to give the full context 😉

TJ - if you go to the Alps and do a week with uplifts it's a reasonable expectation to have to change pads, even if they're new at the beginning of the week, and even if they're good. I don't often ride in the Peak, normally get months out of a set of brakes, but have got through a set of roughly half worn pads in a day's wet riding there - as did everyone else I was riding with. Nothing wrong with our pads, just that ours is sometimes a silly and pricey hobby.

If you ride in certain other conditions wear rates will be increased, but in the Alps it's just the gradients you end up riding down and the temperatures and constant braking that goes with the temperatures that make your pads wear away fast. Basically they'll be smoking away for most of every descent unless you're less than 9 stone and running Hope Moto's.

In any case, if TJ had slated SS I could understand it from some of the historical threads where some interesting opinions were aired (NOT by TJ!)

Toys - I have actually much "congruent anecdotal evidence" And science from the journals and opinion from the manufacturers on this.

I think environmental conditions and usage could easily have 100 fold or even 1000 fold impact on pad life. Thats S>C>I>E>N>C>E fact, not some blubbering made up by a nurse.

[i]You think[/i] so that is[i] science fact[/i]. Oh rly!

Hoist by your own petard boy. are you drunk?

milk no sugar please?

You think so that is science fact.

Show us your

much "congruent anecdotal evidence" And science from the journals and opinion from the manufacturers on this.

PS don't call me boy I have a feeling I'm a bit older than you, it's easy to tell, every time you open up your gob a huge lack of experience falls out.

Phil - one of the weird things is people on here claim to be able to ride in the peaks and in other areas where many get the high pad wear right thru a winter without a high rate of wear. I have ridden in conditions and place where people get high rates of wear and not had it. I get the brakes on the tandem to smoking hot often - and the pads last many thousands of miles.

I did not mean to be slagging off Superstar pads - my comment about a weeks wear was meant in general. It was a stupid context for me to make teh point because of the history

I am astounded folk find this wear acceptable. It is clear to me from much reading, contact with the brake manufacturers and listening to the stories on here that this rapid wear is far more than simply the conditions or it would happen to everyone.

Toys out of pram!

🙄

Come on TJ tell us

a) what this magic effect is other than environmental conditions or usage?
b) What Scientific, anecdotal or other evidence you have for anything you might want to say on brake pads.

kevlar pads on my giant trance - hope M4's trail riding they'll last all year.
kevlar pads on my marin quake - hope V2's DH riding. front pads lasted 1 week in the dry in alpe d'huez and les deux alpes (this past week)

so yeah i can confirm that depending on the riding they can either last all year or 1 week.

a friend who was possibly braking a lot more than me got half way through the backing on them in 5 days on the same holiday.

i really like them especially for the price n what not. only pads i buy at the moment.

toys its pointless. You just want a fight. Nothing I say will satisfy you.

collecting anecdote from on here and other places. Knowledge of discs from motorcycles.

discussions with the manufacturers - yea really i am that geeky I emailed a couple to discuss

Reading around the journals - yes equally sad. I have not kept references but I did a lot of reading

Do you know about the boundary layers and effects and the adherent and abrasive friction? The effects of temperature on this?

The factors that affect wear include:-
Type of use
Riding style
type of pad material
Brake type
Soil/ grit type
outside temperature
rain
Disc material
Bedding in

The key thing appears to me to be the temperatures generated at the pad / disc interface. it seems that this needs to be within a certain range for the pad to work as intended. Go outside this range and the pad material wears very quickly. Different pads appear to either generate heat differently or need different heat ranges. In winter in the wet some makes of brakes and some types of pads don't reach this temp when used in some riding styles hence the high rates of wear. other people using the same equipment on the same trails in the same conditions don't get the premature wear

I wonder if the alps high wear stuff comes from overheating?

I find this a fascinating conundrum hence have looked into it and puzzeled over it looking for answers.

a years use is reasonable.

Further proof TJ spends to much time here dominating threads.

A set of sintered Hope pads on my M2's last me three months max. Obviously the miles and conditions are more important than the arbitrary time scale, but the point is this-

"TJ, stop dribbling on here, and go MTBing."

The factors that affect wear include:-
Type of use
Riding style
type of pad material
Brake type
Soil/ grit type
outside temperature
rain
Disc material
Bedding in

I don't really want an argument I just want you to think before you open your gob, and most of what you said in the last post makes sense, why didn't you say it in the first place?

I know a fair bit about it, my good friend did his PHD with EFi who make EBC and a fair few other pads (or did might have gone bust now). I spent nearly a week reading his thesis and then a month or so working 9-5 researching the background of brake pad compostion and its effects on friction and wear for a project I helped write the proposal for and help manage when it eventually got funded. 5 years prior to that I worked on developing wear resistant low friction coatings for bearings in oil pipeline strings. When you want to make hard wearing low friction materials you quickly become familiar with the mechanisms of friction and wear. Have you ever used a talysurf, have you ever used an SEM to make stereoscopic calcs of surface wear, have you ever designed, executed and digested the results of 100's of wear tests?

I have done those things and I do not feel qualified to spout so accurately as you have on the topic of friction materials.

I just want you to think before you open your gob,

I wish I could!
Just a tad patronising from you tho boy. 😯

and most of what you said in the last post makes sense, why didn't you say it in the first place?

It was - just in simpler form! Perhpas you take your own advice?

Just a tad patronising from you tho boy.

Ah well I think patronisation is what is required here, its no bad thing when a whipper-snapper steps out of line.

I know a fair bit about it, my good friend did his PHD with EFi who make EBC and a fair few other pads (or did might have gone bust now). I spent nearly a week reading his thesis and then a month or so working 9-5 researching the background of brake pad compostion and its effects on friction and wear for a project I helped write the proposal for and help manage when it eventually got funded. 5 years prior to that I worked on developing wear resistant low friction coatings for bearings in oil pipeline strings. When you want to make hard wearing low friction materials you quickly become familiar with the mechanisms of friction and wear. Have you ever used a talysurf, have you ever used an SEM to make stereoscopic calcs of surface wear, have you ever designed, executed and digested the results of 100's of wear tests?

Yeah big deal - you have yet to email a couple of suppliers to discuss? Come on 😉

Yeah so what? My mum knitted me this jumper. 🙂 I like SS pads. Now that they have sorted the backing falling off problem with an early batch, they're as good as anyone elses. Mine last 6 months or more but I'm a fat knacker who beds them in properly. I think that, as TJ has alluded to, these are factors in getting the pads to the right temperature.

you have yet to email a couple of suppliers to discuss?

Damn and suppliers never ever bullshit about their products to make the client feel good about themselves, so you can believe everything they tell you. Foolish me.