I am in the process of ordering a G16 and was planing on running with 29 wheels with a 160mm fork. Though I have been questioning myself if this is the right design and with all the conversation about travel is somewhat similar to what I have been thinking over the past week. Would the G13 with a 140mm fork be more inline with what I do.
some back ground for context.
I currently ride a stumpjumper with 140mm of travel. I currently don’t find myself “underbiked” to often. however part of my reason of looking at a new bike is to improve and push myself further than I currently do/capable of. My suspension tends to work hard as I am over 115kg fully kitted and my riding style is more straight line than perfect line. which lead my to the G16 with its beefier suspension. It will be my only bike so will have to deal with bridal path rides with kids through to days a away at bpw/alps etc.
I would be interested to here others thoughts on the G16/G13?
BlakeC. If you run 29 wheels it will be 155mm rear anyway so not hugely more than your stumpy given your intended use. If you run the front fork 150mm you will have nice angles and only a little more travel than your current bike. Try both first somewhere you know, definitely the best option.
I ordered a G13 as I never felt I needed the bigger travel. Still intrigued to try the -2 degree angleset you suggested Chainline.
So far I am loving the bike though and glad I went for it.
BIGMAN, yesss, a no lose position!
I enjoy the G13 on my local stuff and general trails, but I do miss the travel when on rougher trails and pushing it (pushing for me anyways) but I am old and my body is broken 😉
Chainline bigman.
Thanks for the responses. I am Going to go with the G16. Will just need to get fitter.
The angleset on the list to try for sure. Loving bike in current guise but I will slot one in soon.
On an unrelated note I find myself running the x2 at 250psi to get the correct sag for 85kg.
Are other people finding the same?
90KG and running 180 PSI here.
thats is pretty high for 85kg. Volume spacers? Different ratio tho if on a G13
These bikes do seem to need to be set up with pretty high shock pressures. On my G13 with volume spacers in the Float X I have to run the shock around 300 psi to get the correct sag. I'm just over 100kg fwiw. I'm not sure the ratio on the G13, as much as I love the geometry of mine, is quite right for heavier riders. I can't remember the exact volume spacer set up as Toby swapped them over but I like a decent amount of ramp up so there is a fair bit in there. Might experiment with more when I get a chance as it does feel like it still blows through the travel too easily on rough stuff. Still tempted by a coil and its a shame they didn't design it to fit the X2.
I agree Gotama...Some of us suggested a number of changes, including the X2 capability, before it went into production...
http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/nicolai-ion-g13-29-2017.html
have seen up at 300kg when setting up friends over 100kg. Worthwhile checking the volume at that. The G13 is progressive overall though.
Chainline I was looking at the dirt review of the G19 and they were saying that the large G19 is 10mm shorter than the shortest Geometron. Although this is still longer than most DH bikes.
I have assumed from reading the stuff on here and the reviews / posts elsewhere on the net that one of the main reasons the trail bikes were so long was to improve the descending, and one of the critical comments from people who've ridden the trail bike is it can be too long for twisting trails. So what's the thinking behind the G19 then? Did it come before or after the trail bikes and does that mean there's a school, of thought the trail bikes are too long?
The G19 came mainly from Nicolai's geolution concept, interpreting the Mojo initiated Geo rather than being driven by mojo, mainly around HA and front centre. Similar but not the same applied to the G13. Hence we see the differences in ST angle on both bikes and other small differences the Mojo and indeed Nicolai version of the G16, some discussed on here.
There are a number of factors but descending on tracks as steep as WC tracks and/or the purpose of descending only there is a school of thought there is less requirement to drive grip on the front on flat(er) terrain/ corners or redistribute weight for climbing. Thus bringing the bars near(er) to the rider, is ok for handling.
There is more than one way to achieve that as a measurement, Nicolai chose the conventional way with a slack ST but a similar length TT.
I've not had anyone who has ridden one for any length of time say the trail bike is too long for twisty trails?
Chris rode his XL on some crazy tight stuff in Spain last year without any issues. I've never had any problems on my Longest? It's a different technique, but interestingly when our guide who rides the trails all the time adopted the same technique as riding the GeoMetron he was faster on his normal bike too.
It might be worth building one the other way to see the impact...hmmm. The Mojo GeoMetron has the same geo apart from the reach and the same BB config. The DT is slightly lighter as it doesn't officially support the 40/200mm.
Ah that makes sense thanks Chainline, the twisty comment is based I the inference from some of the people who've sold the bike or didn't get on with it, but they seem in the minority by a long way.
I thought the interview with Chris Porter was really good and explained his thinking, he came across so well!
Interestingly Danny H rides a size larger on the Summum, which is already long compared to most other DH bikes. You can see how forgiving that is on some slo mo and if you watch closely last year on his winning streak. big, unexpected hits and small mistakes he is able to compensate for because of the room and still maintain front end grip. Clearly the whole thing is a balance/compromise tho and very rider dependent too in DH racing.
Mr Gwinn proves that often.
No mate, I've seen how big Danny H's big looks with him on it or next to it. Granted though he's not a big fella! At 6'2 sizing up isn't an option for me off the shelf really! I'm just interested at how proportionately short the G19 is in comparison to the G13/16. Granted it's still longer that most of the DH bikes.
I'm sold on the idea behind the trail bikes, I'm enjoying my Transition at the moment which is he longest MTB I've ridden and it's allowing me to have a great time on the trails and push myself more. The plan is next summer arrange a test ride with MOJO on the Geometron to see if I suit it and it suits me! Fingers crossed!!
I have my longest geometron for sale (g16) frame only no shock really good condition fully maintained comes with spare hanger 142x12 back end anodised black or age graphics. £1450 ono based in north Wales I will leave it built if anybody wants to come and check for size.
I'm 6'1" in the longest.
I'm around till a week on Sunday before I leave for the next two world cups or I'm at Rhyd y felin for the bds this weekend.
Plecostomus, i've PM'd you re the frame. Cheers
I do wonder if a revalve to put me in the middle of a lower range of compression might be a good thingPaul at Mojo has just revalved and put a lighter oil in my 36 for me.I had both high and low speed compression adjusters wound all the way out and while it felt good on mid and big hits it was way to stiff on small chatter.
The difference now is night and day.
I've gone from 64psi to 85psi to get the same amount of sag.
Also running a couple of clicks of highspeed and 12 lowspeed.
It now works as well on the chatter as it does on the mid and big stuff.As a bonus the comp adjusters have now become useful again instead of just being an ornament.
You just described the issues I was having, maybe this would be a better solution than 20psi less.
Stu, what weight are you?
Replied back to you cheers
hat weight are you?
90KG.
My mate has also now had the same mod on his 36 and found it much better too.
Just because this thread hasn't had any pics for a while here's one from yesterdays ride.
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4242/35199433772_67b31e7006_c.jp g" target="_blank">
I do like a nice Pic Stu.
I'm trying to resist the temptation to ask Piecostomus the why question.
Phil I'm selling it as I've ordered another one! Just got to wait to come back from the next two world cups and pick it up on the way home!
Anyone with the gearbox version had their belt tensioner wear in relatively few miles? Mine was getting rather sticky because the aluminium part had worn where it enters the nylon lined section. Trying to get a replacement from Nicolai but not had a response so far.
Aside from that how are you getting on with the pinion? Tempted to see if BTR can make me a pinion hardtail.
I like the pinion, I'd happily have a hardtail to go with it (in fact if I had the cash I'd already have ordered one from Travers). More range than I need and I love the ability to change a load of gears in an instant even stationary. The benefit of less unsprung weight is real too but only on a suspension bike of course.
Big caveat though, have a go on one. You won't have to google much to find people who don't like the shifter, weight or price. They also moan about shifting up under power but I only find that a slight issue between 5th and 4th.
Chainline is it 155mm max on the back with the 29er Geometron, or can it go longer? What sort of fork travel and head angle are people tending to go for? I'd probably go 29 both wheels I am loving the G13.
Shandy, It depends which one....The G16 as a 29er is ideally only 155mm rear.
IF you want 170mm, which it's capable of, then I'd suggest doing that as a custom due to the compromise in BB and SA at that travel.
155mm is spot on, but the longer shock creates a BB that is too high basically.
However, before doing that, if it doesn't offend you, I'd suggest testing the hybrid 29/27.5 G16 setup.
We think that gives all the big benefits of the 29 wheel without the downsides at the rear. The added bonus being if you want to run 155mm 29er rear you can, if you want to run 170mm hybrid you can, no change to front required, just switch wheel and shock/flip chip, BB and angles are spot on.
I'll have a chat to Chris about a non custom full 170mm version.
Thanks, I think it'd definitely be worth testing the hybrid. I don't tend to mess with the bikes much once I have them set up so I can't see me doing a lot of swapping between rear wheels. I am still a big fan of the G16 but I think the bigger wheels work well for me. 155 is great at home but I have a bad injury history and after 2 or 3 big days on holiday I start to get pretty beat up. I was looking at the longer shock on the G16 for the Alps this summer but I might just hold off and try a few things at BPW in the Autumn.
How do you like those Bravos? I have Traildogs on the G13 that I really like but I'd be tempted by the extra warranty on the big bike, I'm about to be on my third Flow in 3 months on the G16.
I'm impressed with the bravo's. Slightly sneaky 32h on my 27.5 wheels. Std set for the 29 wheels.
I've not used the rear 29 so much on the G16 but do on the G13.
I'm a huge fan of the hybrid, so have the mix. I really like the way the front steers at these angles with the 29 front.
I've only been using the ebike 29er fork which is slightly different internally and closer to the 40's in stiffness. Still not a 40 but hey.
I wont be using the 49 if available as std anyhoo as the offset is daft.
We're using the 44mm offset on the 29's at 61-62deg head angles and its lovely and as mentioned with the hybrid the back tracks nicely into a carve. The std 40 27.5 offset is too high I think. 49 fork is ripe for mods!
If we get the chance and the size is half right can always try my hybrid or speak to CP.
I'm the same on getting beaten up, thats why I ride the longer travel most of the time.
Chainline, what's your take on this? They even credit Chris Porter?
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/transitions-new-speed-balanced-geometry-2017.html
CP knew they were looking to move forward yes, I've had a few chats with him about it, some cumminicado may have taken place...it's not as far as we think is optimum but a step in the right direction..
I think I've mentioned the scary offsets in the WC right now. 60+ on the 49er fork I understand, crazy, I wanted less on my 40 than 51mm BUT with a 61deg HA.
My GeoMetron is a hair under 61deg with the 29er front and 44mm offset, it steers great low and high speed, why on earth anyone would want 60 on a DH bike with a sub 63 HA is beyond me...it's like the early days of the 29er again in reverse
I can only imagine its due to the fork manufacturer is not closely linked with the bike mfrs overall..
Of course Mojo has been able to offer these changes due to small production etc. and the fact we are always experimenting. I still have adjustable crowns in the garage...they might have to come out again for a 49 fork!
The 29 36 is easy to manage and you can convert the 27.5 180mm with 29 lowers to be able to run 44mm offset and 29 wheel or even 37mm. you can even keep it at 180mm but it's a bit tall.
I'm having a new frame built, based on the pole geometry, so very similar to the geometric (if only my money stretched that far). I should be looking to get a fork with the smallest offset possible?
That new Nicolai looks lovely, I reckon that would be great on my local trails
Howsyourdad, its the new, lightweight (for a Nicolai, short travel xc bike. Unfortunately they left traditional angles on it....
yes just been to their website and looked 67 degree ish head angle. whats the world coming to!!?
It's been on their site a while - the Saturn. Looks dissapointingly like a lot of other bikes, I thought.
https://www.nicolai-bicycles.com/shop/bike/saturn-11-raceline.html?___store=en&___from_store=de
Just putting my part list together for the geomotron.
What length of dropper post are people using on there bikes? XL or XXL size frames thanks.
Also what size is the seat clamp?
On my 2016 GPI it is a 34.9 seat clamp and a 31.6 seatpost. You should probably check with Mojo/Nicolai depending on who you are buying from in case it has changed.
For dropper length I went as long as I could and just about made a 170mm reverb fit by removing the connectamajig but mine is a 'Long' aka small. Measure carefully and get the biggest drop you can I'd say, why do anything else?
Agree, big as you can. Most use the transfer 150mm, its good, reliable. But if you can Longer why not.
I think the XL and XXL may be 30.9. On a 34.9 clamp I'll check.
I tried a pole the other. Was Lovely. Geomatron looks better though....
I'm building up the proto Mojo GeoMetron NotSoLong for those between 145cm and 165cm.
There will be demo available in the not too distant but I'll be looking to get a range of riders to test this one to get feedback, it will all be accompanied and during a day. I wont be loaning this one out for a period
I've been given the name of a lady enduro racer but if anyone is interested (either because they are interested in one or interested to help) can they message me.
Can't guarantee anything as I need to get a schedule together.
The initial build will be a trail build and with the 145mm travel setting with 160mm up front, but it will take any UK abuse with a rider up to 65kg.
If heavier I may need to change out the wheels but no big deal there if thats the case.
I'd really like to get some smaller/younger kids on it too of any ability from relative beginner but enthusiastic (probably how I'd describe my daughter) to good riders.
I want to understand how riders who don't have preconceptions/ideas of how a bike should feel or aren't really used to a shorter setup get on. i.e. do they just ride it and enjoy, adapt super quickly or not.
Buccaneer/chainline
Thanks for the replys
Chainline
Blake Jr is just a bit short for testing which is a shame as he loved Chris bike and didn't want to hand it back.
170mm Reverb on my longest, its a long post overall but didn't have any problems fitting it.
In the spirit of fitting the longest you can, the Vecnum Moveloc is available again and comes in a 200mm version which Chainline had on his original custom FG Nicolai.