[Closed] Amazing danny!

Think in terms of those that aren't interested, thats fine, although don't really see why you would bother commenting on this thread, just seems to cheapen the OP's intention to celebrate a great achievement.

It seems a bit like someone who is into cycle touring coming along and rubbishing a Cancellara TT ride or a rambler saying how boring hill running is. Think that there are two distinct groups in mountain biking these day (for me much more distinct than being a DHer, 4x rider or xc), there are those who race or have an interest in MTBing as a sport and those that are in many ways the off road equivalent to cycle tourists.

Neither is better than the other, but don't see why someone thats not interested in racing has to put it down?

A different sort of rider? The World Champs covered XC, DH and 4X. So are you saying that STW is for endurance / marathon / hill climb in Hebden Bridge / non-competitive riders only? What a load of crap.

BBC, excusable in my opinion as they are only going to report on sports that appeal to the masses. STW, definitely should have put some effort in but apart from a link to the same video that everyone on the forum has already seen (they probably got the link from this post), nothing. They'll probably have some shit article in the next edition which will be as vague and dull as everything else they write, and will take second or third place to a story about some bearded freak sleeping in a drainage ditch next to some steps on top of a windswept moor, just so he can walk off in the morning because it's too windy to ride and he injured his testicles on a hedgehog.

With regards to the olympics - maybe its the image of downhill. It doesnt know what it wants to be?

Its a timed run down a hill, as fast as you can go. Yet the riders are wearing some stupid baggy mx clothing and are pulling "sick tricks" off the jumps. Just looks a bit amateurish/extreme sports maybe?

DH sking/track cycling/road racing - they all wear lycra and dont **** about.

Hear hear, to the crappy stw coverage comment (can't type fast enough for this to follow the posts!) As I keep saying Singletrack worlds lack of coverage is appalling. Think singletrack world is a bit confused with it's view to racing. Has a presence at fort william but then little coverage in the magazine really. And has an article on the world championships on the front page but is the most half arsed thing ever. Either cover racing or just mark yourself out as clearly not interested and leave it alone completely.

A different sort of rider? The World Champs covered XC, DH and 4X. So are you saying that STW is for endurance / marathon / hill climb in Hebden Bridge / non-competitive riders only? What a load of crap.

I dont read STW, but when I used to read Dirt, I never used to see much of a mention in there for the XC racers. Its probably because the dirt readership arent interested.

Dirt is aimed at downhiller/4x?!?!?! Of course there's not a lot of xc!?!? DO wish there was a version of dirt for xc.

GB aren't really that good at XC though are we?
apart from that Kate Beckinsale, but he's hardly world class
.
the number of GB DH riders at world class level is impressive, so there is a fair representation in the sport - it's not like it's just one person
.
EDIT: Danny Hart is from my neck of the woods (Redcar) - he must have made some of the local rags?

Think GB, apart from Annie Last, Grant Fergson and David Fletcher, are massively disappointing at xc, at one point we were one of the leading countries at cross country now we are no where.

Liam Kileen is a real talent but very disappointing these days, I know he struggles with not being able to start fast, but then Burry Stander and Christoph sauser cope ok getting through the field after poor starts.

Downhill has a real push towards racing and press that covers it, there's a real racing culture to downhill. Xc has very little coverage in the press, no real push to race, if anything the other way, I find there's a bit of a negative attitude to going fast or wanting to go fast in cross country (obviously not racing, but general cross country/trail riding).

I tried to get my local club to start a xc training session, as it does loads for the road and triathlon but only has one, lets plod about the hills, mtb ride. I was told fine, but do it yourself, which is no help when I am not trained in this area and they didn't want it official, which mean if something happened to some one I would be screwed. All I wanted was a coach or someone official, to come along to the sessions, I would do all the work but no. THANKS. Sigh

davidtaylforth - Member

I dont read STW, but when I used to read Dirt, I never used to see much of a mention in there for the XC racers. Its probably because the dirt readership arent interested

But the Champs is for XC as well and I presume that STW is more biased towards XC. It has tried to sell itself as more of a freeride-orientated mag in recent times (it's had reviews in of DH bikes, chain devices, etc) so it obviously recognises that part of the readership are interested in DH / Freeride, but doesn't feel the need to comment on the biggest event of the year.

What it says to me is that STW is an overgrown fanzine, more interested in themselves then anything else, although that's hardly a revelation is it?

Its a timed run down a hill, as fast as you can go. Yet the riders are wearing some stupid baggy mx clothing and are pulling "sick tricks" off the jumps. Just looks a bit amateurish/extreme sports maybe?

DH sking/track cycling/road racing - they all wear lycra and dont **** about.

You are clearly an idiot of the highest order.

What it says to me is that STW is an overgrown fanzine, more interested in themselves then anything else, although that's hardly a revelation is it?

POSTED 4 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

YES! Really annoys me that mountain bike magazine stars are the people that write them, used to be the professional riders that were the stars. I have said it before but middle aged men, that are probably no better riders than your average joe, are hardly inspirational role models to get out and push yourself to get better and fitter.
Mediocrity seems to be where it's at in xc type mountain biking in the uk.

You are clearly an idiot of the highest order.

Actually, I think I have a valid point. Apologies for slagging off the rad image of downhill mountain biking.

do you think that if the BBC ever show DH or 4X then Rob Warner would get a job??

davidtaylforth - Member

With regards to the olympics - maybe its the image of downhill. It doesnt know what it wants to be?

Its a timed run down a hill, as fast as you can go. Yet the riders are wearing some stupid baggy mx clothing and are pulling "sick tricks" off the jumps. Just looks a bit amateurish/extreme sports maybe?

DH sking/track cycling/road racing - they all wear lycra and dont **** about.

as an alternative suggestion; the track at Champery is so steep that baggy clothes offer an advantage over lycra/skinsuits.

baggy clothes offer more wind-resistance, so riders wearing baggies would need to brake less than 'lycra' riders would.

less braking = more tyre grip = faster to the finish.

on some of the steeper alpine tracks i've ridden, i'll take all the wind-resistance i can get!

All the criticism of Singletrack seems a bit harsh. I assumed that the lack of coverage was beacause they were all off at Eurobike which is fair enough. If you are interested in DH then surely you go to the Dirt site where there is so much coverage that I can't keep up. (Although it has tailed off now because I assume that they are all on their way home)

Slowuphill - Yes, but not with the BBC 😉

Of course they could. But do they want too? I couldnt care less, I just enjoy riding my bike.

I actually agree with you about Lycra in DH but no matter how tight, lycra could not have clawed back 11.6 seconds this year.

If you are interested in DH then surely you go to the Dirt site where there is so much coverage that I can't keep up

Exactly

Wasn't Martin Whiteley on Freecaster earlier in the season discussing the fact that they'd done wind tunnel tests to show that lycra would make bugger all difference for downhill racing?

Is it though? Sure, Dirt are better placed to comment on the World Champs (at least the DH and 4X) but the Champs is more than just that; it's the biggest event for all mountain bike disciplines and warrants at least an overview of the results on what is apparently the leading MTB website in the UK.

2 UK World Champs and 2 silvers, that's big. But not as big as a climb up some cobbled hill in a two bit town in Yorkshire, it would seem.

This simply hasn't always been true tho has it David? I'd have never seen a pic of your flat tables on your BMX if you hadn't seen another rider (more than likely first from a pic or video) pull a nice table and thought it looked cool then went out with the prior intention to copy it.

Haha, I know. Maybe I'm just not as impressionable now.

the entire Juvenile/youth/Junior field at UK DH races ara all about whips, scrubs and smashing turns in hideous PJs and toilet seat necklaces just now for the exact same reason!

Yeh, and theres nowt wrong with this either. But I reckon if DH mtbing wants to be taken more seriously then the whole image of the sport would maybe have to change? Which would perhaps turn it into some sort of super serious, no pissing about thing like road riding. Does anyone want thaT?

Some people don't half talk a lot of sh*t in this thread!

do you think that if the BBC ever show DH or 4X then Rob Warner would get a job??

His helmet-cam course run vids are certainly a bit ruder than graham bell's on ski sunday!

edoverheels - Member
All the criticism of Singletrack seems a bit harsh. I assumed that the lack of coverage was beacause they were all off at Eurobike which is fair enough. If you are interested in DH then surely you go to the Dirt site where there is so much coverage that I can't keep up. (Although it has tailed off now because I assume that they are all on their way home)

POSTED 7 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

But I am not just interested in DH, more xc really just appreciate racing of any kind. More my points re STW, are:
1, People seemed to be moaning about the BBC not covering it and yet singletrack world had one half arsed report that missed out some fantastic performances in all disciplines. It seemed to me the anger/annoyance although not miss placed, seemed to miss out the obvious point of call. How do we expect the world press to sit up and notice when our own doesn't?

2,For me I think there is far too much focus on 'tech' in our sport. I like seeing the latest thing out but the sport, for me, is about the act of riding and the worlds is one of the best places to see it done at the highest level. I feel the worlds is far more important than seeing some bikes that will appear in the catalogues a month or so later. Feel that everyone's always on about the latest this and that to help their riding. When even the worlds best riders are saying, within reason, it doesn't really matter what wheel size you have or what tyres you have e.c.t, it's about knowing your bike and being fit. Seems a much healthier message.

3. Don't mean to be harsh but I don't think I would have such an interest in racing and keeping fit, if when I started the magazines had been full of pages of less than fit men. To me, it's not much to aspire to. Think it's very sad that people don't know who Danny Hart is or Brendan Fairclough or Annie Last but know who Chipps is. I have nothing against Chipps, he seems like a really nice guy but he shouldn't be better known than pro riders.

4, And this to a degree could excuse the above points, in away. Do think single track world needs to work out who it's aimed at, it's kind of all over the place, covers the Dalby and fort william world cup (sort of) and sponsors sleepless but covers nothing else really racing wise. Think if it just said, we are a publication for the non competitive/off road cycle tourist/rambler type, then no one could expect race coverage. Either cover races or not, it's not like I get frustrated when flicking through the CTC magazines, my girl friends dad has, that theres no race coverage. Think STW need to mark it's self out either side of the race fence, rather than covering it in a half hearted way.

2,For me I think there is far too much focus on 'tech' in our sport. I like seeing the latest thing out but the sport, for me, is about the act of riding and the worlds is one of the best places to see it done at the highest level. I feel the worlds is far more important than seeing some bikes that will appear in the catalogues a month or so later. Feel that everyone's always on about the latest this and that to help their riding. When even the worlds best riders are saying, within reason, it doesn't really matter what wheel size you have or what tyres you have e.c.t, it's about knowing your bike and being fit. Seems a much healthier message.

I was going to write something like this earlier. Its more of an industry rather than a sport. I'm not into any other sports really, so may not be best placed to say, but when I look at skiing, kayaking, weight lifting, archery etc. they just seem so simple.

MTBing seems to focussed on bits of bling, shock set ups, tire compounds, monster energy, neck braces, wide handle bars, slack head angles etc. rather than just racing.

Which for me is a massive argument for covering the worlds and racing in general, rather than having all the STW team at eurobike. Get away from the unhealthy obsession with the 'latest' thing. Ralph Naef's comments on bike choice for the champery xc was one of the best pieces of advice I have ever heard.

Could someone please explain to me (or anyone else who's equally bemused), just why this Media Coverage thing is so important to some of you.

I, for one, couldn't give a hoot about us getting media coverage - in much the same way as Joe Public probably equally doesn't give a hoot about downhill mountain biking.

[b]Good.[/b]

Well done Danny! 😀

but when I look at skiing, kayaking, weight lifting, archery etc. they just seem so simple.

Skiing - more tech than you could shake a stick at, and more niches than MTB.

weight lifting - drugs don't develop themselves

archery - it's come allong a fair bit from the longbow and robin hood.

Ralph Naef's comments on bike choice for the champery xc was one of the best pieces of advice I have ever heard

Well don't hold back, what did he say?

I'm not into any other sports really, so may not be best placed to say, but when I look at skiing, kayaking, weight lifting, archery etc. they just seem so simple.

You are joking right? The design features of kayaks, skis etc are just as involved as bikes. There is still the marketing BS about going 30% bigger on moves in the new designs.

Media coverage helps being people into the sport and keeps more money in the sport, I guess the value of that is whether you are interested in mountain biking as a sport or a pass time.

Just to make it clear I don't think that new technology is a bad thing at all, I wouldn't want to be riding what I was 10-15 years ago. And lot of what we are riding today has come from pro's wanting it for racing, and there's no doubt they drive the need for better, lighter, faster stronger, it just seems to me some how in a healthier way. We seem to constantly be told/shown we need this and that, when really we don't.

Media coverage helps being (sic) people into the sport and keeps more money in the sport

Seriously. Do we actually really need [b]more[/b] of either of these? Actually? Really?

Last time I looked there appeared to be shite-loads of people spending equally shed-loads of cash on kit, riding around on either well full-funded trail centres, or tonnes of people up and down the country churning their way through natural trails day in, day out.

MTBing is not really in decline, monetarily, or otherwise... 😉

I don't really see how it is really all that important to get widespread Media recognition, (other than to satisfy some sort of collective mountain biker ego).

I quite like the fact that no one really recognises at all what it is I do as an all-consuming lifestyle-obsession-thing.

phil.w - Member
Ralph Naef's comments on bike choice for the champery xc was one of the best pieces of advice I have ever heard
Well don't hold back, what did he say?

POSTED 9 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Sorry!, I sort of summarised above but he said, can't remember the exact words but this is the gist; Martin Whitely asked Ralph Naef if he thought a 29er or 26er would be faster today? Ralph (who rides for the merida team and can (and has done)ride a 26er or 29er hardtail or soft tail) said: "It really doesn't matter, it's the rider who make the bike fast, every bike has advantages and disadvantages, doesn't matter what wheel size, hard or soft tail, if you know the bike well and feel confident in it, that's the fastest bike. People get nervous before the race and start to worry that maybe this will make me faster or that will, but it makes no difference. Know your bike well and it's the rider that make it fast." He also went on to say he and Hermida run the same front tyre pretty much all year round.

He said it much better in his broken english than I have above! But I felt it was so spot on, just dismissed which is faster cr@p around wheel size and bike choice.

 

You are joking right? The design features of kayaks, skis etc are just as involved as bikes. There is still the marketing BS about going 30% bigger on moves in the new designs.

No I'm not joking. Im not into skiing, kayaking, weight lifting or archery, I dont know many people who are either.

He also went on to say he and Hermida run the same front tyre pretty much all year round.

You mean they don't change tyres every week depending on which identical trail centre they are riding at? 😯

😛

If I can add my two pennorth. I think the reason that the BBC et al fail to cover many such sports is the cost of outside broadcast. I was at a Rally Sprint event many years ago which was on a bleak hillside in mid Wales, the camera crews had been there for 3-4 days beforehand to set up scaffold platforms and would be there for 2 days afterwards to tear down, imagine the cost of paying a heavily unionised crew of about 25 people to be a couple of hundred miles away from London for a week to cover an event that had about 1 hours airtime. Ok current technology allows better results from far less cost but I think this has been a factor in the demise of televised Rallying, Motocross,Circuit Racing all types of Cycling,etc as the broadcasters can only afford to buy in coverage of a certain standard from sports which are more popular abroad such as the TdF.

Think it's very sad that people don't know who Danny Hart is or Brendan Fairclough or Annie Last but know who Chipps is. I have nothing against Chipps, he seems like a really nice guy but he shouldn't be better known than pro riders.

That is like saying its sad that more people know who Jeremy Clarkson is than Andy Priaulx. Its kind of inevitable that people recognise the media personalities more than a competitor in a niche part of a sport that they don't care about but is loosely related to their hobby or interest. Even if that competitor is the world champ.

And there isn't anything wrong with it either.

Sure it would be nice if our world champions got a bit more press but the lack of recognition isn't unique to mountain biking.

davidtaylforth - Member
You are joking right? The design features of kayaks, skis etc are just as involved as bikes. There is still the marketing BS about going 30% bigger on moves in the new designs.
No I'm not joking. Im not into skiing, kayaking, weight lifting or archery, I dont know many people who are either.

In my experience, MTBing is WAY simpler than archery.

slainte 😳 rob

"What arrows for killing off a thread celebrating a young lads World Championship win?" 🙂

Who the hell is this Chipps guy?

[img] [/img]

Edit: More to the point, great run, and well done Danny Hart!

He also went on to say he and Hermida run the same front tyre pretty much all year round.

You'd have thought the team could run to one each.

Personally, I'm happy for our sport to stay off the radar. I hope it continues to be ignored by the BBC.

The obnoxious, foul mouthed rantings of Warner and Co provide far more entertainment, enthusiasm and soul than any BBC commentator I can think of. Including that whining nightmare Murray Walker.

I'm quite happy for most people to think of mountain bikers as florescent lycra wearing weirdos wobbling along bridleways. Long may they continue to do so. It means the powers that be are more inclined to leave us alone to get on with it.

Mass coverage needs big money, and big money requires mass market appeal. Mass market appeal means watering down. Enough good things in life, from comedy to art to music to sport, have been watered down enough in order to be sold back to as many of us as possible.

Let's keep it about the riding rather than the entertainment. That way we might be able to avoid seeing our bike handling heroes whoring themselves out, advertising Bran Flakes and thirty blade Gillette razors.

I imagine football once had soul before it became about money above everything else.

If I can add my two pennorth. I think the reason that the BBC et al fail to cover many such sports is the cost of outside broadcast.

But Freecaster have already met that cost.

Covering the sport should cost 2/5ths of bugger all. The only cost would be cost of a more sensible commentary and a touch of editing to a highlights package rather than the full race.

Look at downhill skiing, its done that way with feeds taken from host broadcasters.

The only cost that may be prohibitive would be the licensing cost of the coverage. I would doubt that Freecaster would object to a major network carrying some highlights a few days after a race as it would massively increase the popularity of their exclusive live coverage. That leaves the UCI as the only obstacle so they a probably pricing the coverage out of the market.

Either that or the sport is so niche that nobody will even show it for next to nothing as there are more profitable options for the broadcasting time such as repeats of US sitcoms.

I say get the BBC to bring back Grandstand then they would have 10hrs a week of sport that had to filled with something but with no rights to mainstream sport. I seem to remember they even showed some DH on that once.

Thats kind of true the personality thing, I guess it again comes down to the thing of looking at mountain biking as a sport or a hobby/just about the bikes.

Because you liking it to Clarkson/top gear, top gear is about the cars so that's fine if STW sits on the we are just about bikes as a hobby side of the fence. But I suspect people know the racing drivers in formula one better than the people that write about it.

Just as in football, I don't follow it at all, so maybe I am wrong, but suspect people who do know the players and managers more than the people that write about it in the press.

It never used to be like it is now, yes you knew who wrote the magazine articles in MBUK/Mountain bike international e.c.t, but they were not more famous than the pro riders. It's the same with Dirt now, you know who Steve Jones (Jones actually being pretty good on a bike) is but he's not more famous than the riders.

But it is that sport/hobby thing...feel I am just arguing against people that see mountain biking differently to myself and should give up!

Media coverage helps being (sic) people into the sport and keeps more money in the sport

Seriously. Do we actually really need more of either of these? Actually? Really?

Why on earth would you want our hobby not to grow in popularity?
MTBing is good for fitness and is great fun, I would encourage anyone to try it. We need to be inclusive and let us not forget that increased popularity will give us more clout for improving access.

But I am not just interested in DH, more xc really just appreciate racing of any kind. More my points re STW, are:
1, People seemed to be moaning about the BBC not covering it and yet singletrack world had one half arsed report that missed out some fantastic performances in all disciplines. It seemed to me the anger/annoyance although not miss placed, seemed to miss out the obvious point of call. How do we expect the world press to sit up and notice when our own doesn't?

2,For me I think there is far too much focus on 'tech' in our sport. I like seeing the latest thing out but the sport, for me, is about the act of riding and the worlds is one of the best places to see it done at the highest level. I feel the worlds is far more important than seeing some bikes that will appear in the catalogues a month or so later. Feel that everyone's always on about the latest this and that to help their riding. When even the worlds best riders are saying, within reason, it doesn't really matter what wheel size you have or what tyres you have e.c.t, it's about knowing your bike and being fit. Seems a much healthier message.

3. Don't mean to be harsh but I don't think I would have such an interest in racing and keeping fit, if when I started the magazines had been full of pages of less than fit men. To me, it's not much to aspire to. Think it's very sad that people don't know who Danny Hart is or Brendan Fairclough or Annie Last but know who Chipps is. I have nothing against Chipps, he seems like a really nice guy but he shouldn't be better known than pro riders.

4, And this to a degree could excuse the above points, in away. Do think single track world needs to work out who it's aimed at, it's kind of all over the place, covers the Dalby and fort william world cup (sort of) and sponsors sleepless but covers nothing else really racing wise. Think if it just said, we are a publication for the non competitive/off road cycle tourist/rambler type, then no one could expect race coverage. Either cover races or not, it's not like I get frustrated when flicking through the CTC magazines, my girl friends dad has, that theres no race coverage. Think STW need to mark it's self out either side of the race fence, rather than covering it in a half hearted way.

The difference is cycling the sport and cycling the hobby, some people treat it as one or the other, some treat it as both

I would disagree that there is no infrastructure also, there is fantastic infrastructure, all the people at SDA, SXC, BDS all those race series have been working hard for years with the support of BC.

OK. I was thinking that the French, Swiss, Americans etc, all have have tonnes of bike parks with permanent lift access. A lot of grass roots DH in the UK is guys pushing heavy bikes up a short hill. Maybe it makes us try harder?

I'm sorry if my plea to the BBC contributed to a sh1tstorm on this otherwise happy thread. Here we go:

[img] [/img]