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If we're going by what the pros have been winning on, why not save a few bob and get a Canyon two sizes too small?
Yeti have always been in that completely out of reach bracket?
No they haven't. As I said on the previous page - when I bought a 575, £1200 was a decent price for a top end full suss frame from a boutique(ish) brand.
chakaping
Free MemberIf we’re going by what the pros have been winning on, why not save a few bob and get a Canyon two sizes too small?
That comment expired at the weekend unfortunately (but hopefully valid again in a couple of weeks)
Of course they can charge that, have you tried to get a dentist appointment lately? They could probably add a zero
I've always loved Yeti's since the days of John Tomac when I was a kid. They've always been an aspirational brand like Ferrari, Ducati, etc and the prices match that.
I owned and loved a SB5c which I bought with a hefty discount when the SB5 was released. 2 main issues I had, riding here in the UK were 1) Insufficient protection of the pivot bearings, 2) Wear on the Switch Infinity sliders, regardless of how well it was greased and maintained.
Hopefully the new models will replace the Switch Infinity with the new SixFinity system used on the 160E
Frame for mine was £3600 in late 2019, not £3k. Can't fault it- only warranty issues I've had have been fixed quickly (beginnings of cable port wear, they sent out some alloy inserts FOC).
Its a big price jump, but I'd expect the likes of Santa Cruz etc to follow fairly soon..
I'm on my third Yeti, a SB130 bought in 2019. It was, even then, a pricey bike. And I love it. Would I buy another, even though I can afford it? Probably not. They – and some other brands – have crossed over my personal price/value threshold. It's why I'd never buy a Colnago, even though I'd love to have one. That threshold is different for everyone and I'd bet Yeti won't see a drop in sales, particularly in their home market.
That comment expired at the weekend unfortunately (but hopefully valid again in a couple of weeks)
I think Jack's injury mitigates somewhat.
Anyway, why not hang on for Yeti to update it with a high pivot and charge £5k frame only?
Of course they can charge that, have you tried to get a dentist appointment lately?
Good reminder. Just booked the next available slot for a check-up. March 2023... wtf.
but I’d expect the likes of Santa Cruz etc to follow fairly soon..
3.7k for their newly released Megatower which is their equivilent bike (so similar shock, and same anticipated riding and warranties I would imagine). Probably the other two re-vamped 29ers arriving this summer.
I demoed one 4 weeks ago and the paint chipped after the slightest stone chip. At £4300 its crazy money as is the Rallon at 4099 for a frame only and as said make the Hope and Santa Cruz frames seem more like a bargain. I do think over the next 12-18 months there will be more Alloy builds on the trails and fells. A sentinel at £2100 now seems like a bargain in comparison..but then again alloy frames from Stainland now with a linkage seem to be commanding a fair price 🙂
as is the Rallon at 4099 for a frame only
They do seem to be taking the piss a bit, only £500 more for a FOX/slx/raceface full build.
Some companies just really don't want to sell frame-only.
I do think over the next 12-18 months there will be more Alloy builds on the trails and fells.
If you think that will be price driven I can't say I see it happening.
Raw alu is up 60% in the last 12 months, over 100% since pre covid.
Extrusion is hugely energy intensive and if you think your electricity bills have gone up say a quiet prayer for the price cap on domestic supply. So that's up massively.
Powder coating is hugely energy intensive and the powder is oil derived. That's up massively.
Shipping isn't any cheaper than for carbon as the physical volume of the bikes is the same.
It's a different market but I'm seeing about 128% increase on delivered alu product since Jan 21, about 110% on steel.
Bigger consumers buy further ahead but the same things are going to catch up with them eventually and filter though.
If its price driven I'd half expect to see more carbon (where there's a much larger % labour component to the cost) about not the opposite.
Haha I was waiting for the irony posts about swapping my sc frames every year 🤣
I get it, but that’s my point I’m in a position where I could ‘afford’ to do what most people can’t, and now even with similar spare money it’s priced even me out of doing it with those sort of prices!! So who exactly are they aiming to sell to at that price?!
I’ve been in a lucky position to do so for years, albeit have had a change of direction this last year switching back to alloy for a bit of a mix up, but if I have the same spare cash that was enough to do that on SC for years I’m now out of the market on those brands should they all go up over 4K and I’m assuming a lot will be in the same position as me!
Ps I got a sentinel alloy (2022 model) and yes it’s weighty but I paid 1899 for it in January and it’s been so much fun to ride
I just wish it was a bit lighter, even transition seems more realistic with pricing as they are only around 3200 for full carbon frames with x2 shocks - great back up and other than the paint being shit they are bloody good fun …
Haha I was waiting for the irony posts about swapping my sc frames every year 🤣
I get it, but that’s my point I’m in a position where I could ‘afford’ to do what most people can’t, and now even with similar spare money it’s priced even me out of doing it with those sort of prices!!
how much of a loss were you making on a 1 yr old SC frame? What would we expect a used Yeti to fetch in 2023?
I can see that possibly the limiting factor is not what you can afford to buy but what the savvy second hand buyer is willing/able to pay out in cash for a warrantyless used frame.
Around 1k and that was part ex’ing so no hassle with idiots/fees on eBay
It seemed decent ‘value’ to me to do it every 12 to 18 months for a change
Sc quality is not comparable to any other brand, they sell well 2nd hand because they are very well made and good solid paint
Issue with a yeti 2nd hand trying sell is the fact the reputation is shit in uk and now if you tried sell it a year later you’d lose over half its value near enough no way I’d be swapping out of a yeti a year later for ~1k
Also Santa Cruz warranty is one of the best in the industry. Yeti on the other hand…
At £4300 its crazy money as is the Rallon at 4099 for a frame only a
Not to mention Rocky Mountain asking £4.3k for the Altitude frame-only.
Looks like an awesome bike, but come on.
But with all these silly frame prices, it's possible they are trying to discourage frame-only sales because they'll make more money selling full builds - and they've now got used to selling everything they can make.
What shop are/were you going through that offers trade ins?
We talking frame only? And guessing as a discount on a new frame, no cash option.
That seems like a pretty good deal (given the depreciation curve on mtbs) for them to presumably clean it up, new bearings, and then sell as second hand.
1k a year is still a bit steep for my wallet, and I say that as a recent purchaser/owner of a 5010. But if it worked for you...
Unsure it has actually impacted you that much though - given you were spending a small fortune to change every year, at the start of that you'd have had a greater outlay to get on your SC chain. You'd be doing the same to go for the Yeti, so the first one is always going to be the most costly for you.
Must be great to have that amount of cash available to swap every year, but any issues with you doing it every 2 years? That way the Yeti becomes available again for you...
As people have said, there is always a way if you really want something, as you don't seem to be really wanting it (otherwise you'd fine a way i.e. buy every 2 years or swallow the larger chunk of cash to get on the Yeti ladder).
I do think prices are going up at ridiculous rates, but costs are also rocketing...there are many more bikers nowadays so there will always be plenty folk who will spend that amount of money - just as there are many people happy to be riding round on cheaper kit as it works very well and provides enjoyment for them.
I'm not trying to talk down to anyone, but it is interesting to read people's comments and get an idea of thinking as there are some very different to me - I don't think I'm right but is good to see the other views.
sales because they’ll make more money selling full builds
Probably not, but they'll need to sell x volume of forks to get a decent price from fox, x volume of drive trains for shimano and so on. Frame only reduces that so its not desirable for helping you hit price point on full builds.
Also full builds give much more control over the spec and resulting failures, fat fewer folks buying a full build then sticking over length forks, cheap BB, adapted wheels, shimmed seat posts and so on onto the frame and knackering it then blaming the frame.
Speeder
Richie could win on a penny farthing. The bike has little to do with it but it’s a nice bit of marketing.
A penny farthing, and whatever drug he was/is taking that still hasn't been revealed....
Probably not, but they’ll need to sell x volume of forks to get a decent price from fox, x volume of drive trains for shimano and so on. Frame only reduces that so its not desirable for helping you hit price point on full builds.
I'm pretty sure full builds are more profitable, as bike brands get components for a fraction of the price they're sold aftermarket - so they've leveraging profit from those as well as the frame.
Of course if you're asking more than £4k for the frame alone, that might change.
Pauly
Also Santa Cruz warranty is one of the best in the industry. Yeti on the other hand….
Yeti have a really good rep for warranty on the other side of the Atlantic, it's just this side where you have Silverfish in the middle that they have a bad rep. That and the fact they break a LOT
@DickBarton I know what you mean, but difference is I now would refuse to pay that much for a frame full stop, regardless of brand if that’s how much sc/transition or anyone else goes in the future
I happily paid a 1k to swap as I said in my head I saw it as decent value to do a swap and try something new, I was happy doing that
I’m not in a much different position other than now I refuse to pay that sort of money for a frame, the cost of swapping would be well over 2k every swap not making it in my mind good value - I know it’s all relative etc but that’s my logic 1k to get in to a new frame is a lot of money but still represent some value …. Buying a 4300 frame from the off doesn’t represent any value what so ever on any planet
As some ones mentioned above I do wonder if they are trying to force full build purchase instead of frame only? I’ve never looked into this before as base models have always been shit spec but now if you got a full bike for maybe 500 quid more for the same frame then it would be worthwhile doing that and flogging all the bits off it recoup some back
Anyways I’m not on about my personal circumstances/choices etc
Its just 4300 quid is an insane amount of money for a Chinese frame and surely nobody can argue that
I get it, but that’s my point I’m in a position where I could ‘afford’ to do what most people can’t, and now even with similar spare money it’s priced even me out of doing it with those sort of prices!! So who exactly are they aiming to sell to at that price?!
I assume the target is people richer than you then, or folks with more disposable income. Or folks that think 4.5 k is an acceptable amount to spend on a carbon toy
Either way there are at least 5 guys in my cycling club with frames costing that amount. Me included.
Its just 4300 quid is an insane amount of money for a Chinese frame and surely nobody can argue that
99.9 % of the population would argue spending 3000 quid on carbon frame is insane though.
Its just 4300 quid is an insane amount of money for a Chinese frame and surely nobody can argue that
I think their carbon frames are made in Vietnam. Is it a crazy price? I guess it depends doesn't it? Most folks aren't going to buy frame only, they buy a bike (despite what folks on here say) and the entry price for the SB150 is about £6K. I paid that not long ago for a very nice Specialized (nearly at the top of their range) and I'm not paid dentist money. Objectively it's a lot of cash, whether subjectively one thinks it's "worth it" doesn't necessarily have to have any connection to the price of the frame.
Exactly they have totally alienated me from purchasing one, so clearly I am not there target audience anymore and will be the same for any other brand that gets anywhere near 4K for a frame
I guess alloy FTW
tpbiker
Free MemberIts just 4300 quid is an insane amount of money for a Chinese frame and surely nobody can argue that
99.9 % of the population would argue spending 3000 quid on carbon frame is insane though
But again that’s my point when someone who rides and who happily splurged endless amounts of money on components etc decides enough is enough then surely it has become past insane
oscillatewildly
I guess alloy FTW
Get a Geometron. Mine is 2.5 years old, popped the bearing caps off for a look, found a load of fresh, clean green grease. Raw frame, no paint to scratch. Already has next year's geometry.No need to upgrade.
Its just 4300 quid is an insane amount of money for a Chinese frame and surely nobody can argue that
OK, how much do you think it should cost?
That infinity link thing isn't appearing elsewhere so they're not catalogue frames if that's what you mean by Chinese, yes they might be physically assembled in China* but so are most carbon frames.
They're "small" volume, heavily marketed, well supported (row anyhow), using bespoke hardware (infinity switch thing) with all the design and production costs associated with that.
They're not exactly going to be cheap.
Now compare with SC who don't have any of the bespoke bits and do much higher volumes and essentially up the price by £300 a year for different paint.
Then compare to a specialised/trek/giant.
I don't honestly think the yeti is priced out of the way, it's certainly out of my price bracket but I don't think it's bad value compared to a lot of others.
so clearly I am not there target audience anymore
If you were part ex’ing to cover the cost, sorry, you never were.
Not really, because there's always another layer of people who are capable and happy to spend the money.
The issue here is due to a price rise due to {insert reason} people are pushing back against being dropped a buy bracket or two.
When I bought my RM it was for cash with a lump sum payment I received. I did it because I could and I wanted to treat myself to a high end bike.
Doubtful I would have done so without the disposable, nor considered finance i'm not a fan of finance on bikes. I'd have probably just bought a almost new second hand frame like I've always done.
I just accept there's some stuff I can afford and some stuff I can't.
But again that’s my point when someone who rides and who happily splurged endless amounts of money on components etc decides enough is enough then surely it has become past insane
Now compare with SC who don’t have any of the bespoke bits and do much higher volumes
Aren't they (SC) owned by Pon Industries now as well? I'd imagine there's some economies of scale
It would only be insane if people weren’t buying them.
I wouldn’t buy one, but I’m not priced out at that money. (I don’t earn squillions, but I also don’t do anything else expensive, like drink or reproduce)
I have always wanted a Yeti. One day.
I was at one one point thinking about an Argonaut race bike, my dream would be to fly across and pick it up and spend a week riding it. Of course I would return with my bike bag full of my used bike 🙂
https://argonautcycles.com/bikes/custom-road-bike-rm3/
In the end, and after 17 years of saving, I bought a Colnago. When I was looking last Spring, a Cervelo was going from £6k to £9k with the next delivery. Inflation and profiteering???
Yes I was their target audience back when I bought the SC carbon frame from the off it was very similar price to that of a yeti, I chose sc due to the warranty/backup
I would still be their target audience if the frames were still reasonably priced around the 3k mark
I am now not their target audience clearly! Nor will I ever be at 4.3k and even a bigger better paid job won’t change that as I see it as a crazy jump from the already dear prices of ~3k
A sentinel at £2100 now seems like a bargain in comparison.
A carbon Bird is 1740 without a shock - I'll admit not quite in the same indended use as a Sentinel (or SB150).
Nicholai (alloy) frames are starting at 2700 now, Oranges 2600.
Its not the material thats to blame.
"Insane" is a bit strong yeah, but the "not bad value" someone said up there... really mate?
Silverfish were mentioned up the thread, they've been known for their greedy pricing and questionable service for years. Combine that with the likelihood of snappage and you'd have to be very fond of turquoise.
tomhoward
Full MemberIt would only be insane if people weren’t buying them.
I wouldn’t buy one, but I’m not priced out at that money. (I don’t earn squillions, but I also don’t do anything else expensive, like drink or reproduce)
Of course if people desperately want something they’ll pay it, and there will always be people like that
However, how can it not be classed as insane?! This is the bit I’m struggling to comprehend, it is insane, it screams out madness to me looking at that number on a website for just a frame
I’m not priced out per se, but my mind has priced it out there is no justification other than greed for them putting a price that high on it
I mean if you were to compare it to the motorised similar version it does seem a little bonkers.
2022 Yamaha YZ250F Monster Edition
"I’m not priced out per se, but my mind has priced it out there is no justification other than greed for them putting a price that high on it"
What if manufacturing costs and shipping costs have gone up that much? What if lead times have increased substantially and money needs to be invested up front for a much greater time before the goods arrive? What if the manufacturing partners have suffered a decrease in output capacity so the operating profit for the business (paying for marketing, salaries, business overheads etc) is spread across a smaller number of frames?
I've just finished an enormous costings and pricing spreadsheet for my business and I'm sure some of the new prices will lead to people accusing me of greed, when the reality is that most of our customers are wealthier than me or my staff, and the new prices reflect current costs and a need to actually make a living.
However, how can it not be classed as insane?!
There are cars that cost more than my house. Not supermegahypercars, just top of the range SUVs, from mainstream brands.
There are watches that cost more than those cars.
There are watches that you couldn’t buy after a 7 figure lottery win.
Basically all these things are bought with the heart not the head, sanity doesn’t even enter the equation, and bikes are getting that way.
However, how can it not be classed as insane?! This is the bit I’m struggling to comprehend
Because cost and value isn't just a reflection of the price of a thing.