But in a group ride with other eeb’ers then I’m afraid retro bikes aren’t invited.
Sad times.
We haven’t all got second homes in the Alps round here.
Chuckle.
I've always treated group rides as an excuse to have a laugh and fart about. If you're in a hurry it's probably the wrong place to be.
The majority of what I ride is solo and tbh I prefer it that way. Had a shitty day - go full belt down the techy stuff; not on form - bimble along an easy path, nobody to slow you down or pressure you. Last thing I'd want to do is be stuck trying to match someone elses cadence.
I'll be getting an ebike at some stage, once they drop the weight a bit. Doubt it will really affect how I ride though.
Mine gets me out - and I like it for that, but it is not just as agile or fun as a normal bike. I am very glad I have it though!
All those saying get fitter have clearly never ridden an ebike – there’s no way someone really fit on a normal bike will keep up with someone not very fit going up hill on an ebike.
You've clearly never ridden with some PROPERLY fit/fast people... I can assure you I know a few people with minimal body fat on sub 10kg bikes that would crucify your average biffer on a 25kg eBike uphill, and regularly do!
People saying take them on a long ride and flatten their battery – if they’re going slowly (because they’re matching your pace) they will use very little juice, I can get 7000 feet of climbing out of mine using mostly eco mode if I go at normal bike pace.
Au contraire again... I'm neither low in body fat, nor particularly fit/fast myself. Last time I got asked to guide a load of eMTBer's round my local trails, after 20 odd miles they were all complaining they were on their last bar of battery, and though I had put a lot of effort in on the climbs, had we stopped for lunch I could have done the same effort again afterwards for sure... I was on my 12kg XC bike, they were all on 25kg long travel eBikes... Not one of them could see where I went on the descents, I spent more time waiting at the bottom of the descents (Racing Ray/Ralph tyres on my bike too!) than they did at the top of the climbs for me! And I'm 90kg, enjoy my food and drink too much, and don't ride half as much as I should!
One of my mates who 20 odd years ago was quicker than all of us, bought an eBike a few years ago to try to get back into it, being 30 odd kg heavier than the last time he properly rode. He's still got skills, the problem was that even with the eBike, he was running out of energy and desire before others on their normal bikes! His solution... He sold it and bought a BMW R1200GS! 🤷🏻♂️
Don't take this as an anti eBike rant... Far from it, I think they're awesome bits of kit when used for the right reasons... I want one... I'd use it for solitary explorations, or group eBike rides, and it would be a lot of fun. But I'll be damned if I'm going to use it cos I'm too fat/lazy to try and keep up with others on their normal bikes, at least not for a couple of decades!
I can understand why people buy eBikes, they're enormous fun, but I'm puzzled why relatively young riders, ie in their 40s, think they need as opposed to want one.
Don’t disagree mboy but I’m telling you, no normal bike riding person was keeping up with the lad I saw. His mate, yes, but not the lead rider. He was probably handy on a normal bike tbf but the way he demolished the long, steep and rough section changed my view.
Still need to keep fit for work though so will stick with no batteries.
and I’m not ready for pedal assistance yet.
Don't you mean not ready for motor assistance?
I'm riding every week with an eeb mate.
He's always colder than I am so keeps his coat on.
I take my coat off quickly.
Coats innit.
I’m guessing you’re neither in the financial position nor in the mental position where you want/need a new bike. I wouldn’t get a new bike just because other people were. I’ve only had my current bike for 12 months so in a few years I’ll probably look again at all bikes. Your mates know what bike you have and if they’re real mates they won’t care that they’ll have to wait and if they do they’ll organise stuff without you or they’re not worth keeping as mates. Maybe start to find out about other guys nearby who ride the same bike in preparation for the future or get used to the idea of mostly riding alone or 75% like a lot of us do.
E-biking is a different sport from mountain biking, the difference in speed is just too great. Either new mates or just ride solo.
Could you possibly hire an e-bike if you meet up with them every other month or so?
This has happened to me, but they wait at the top and I wait when they regularly have electrical issues with speed sensors or other fault codes.
but I’m puzzled why relatively young riders, ie in their 40s, think they need as opposed to want one.
It's definitely want in my case.
New friends or an EMP device.
I think that sums it up. Unless your friends are going to go slowly up the hills, as in as slowly as you are going then it won't make much difference but if they all power up each hill at 15.5mph then it won't really be a group ride any more will it?
You are not going to increase your fitness to the level where you can ride up every hill at over 15.5mph unless you start some serious training and have a bit of natural ability and age on your side.
It’s recreation, do what you want. No one has a medical need to go mountain biking anyway. There’s certainly no medical reason to make it as miserable as possible.
Ohh I dunno, motivation at least not to become a ........
smoking biffer
so you dont get left behind.
If you have the money that you want to spend than why not, but don't start calling normal bikes "retro" bikes or "clockwork bikes" or "analogue bikes" that is used to somehow create superiority of the electric bike whilst also being technically incorrect in descriptions.
Has anyone said get a tow rope yet?
Least they could do is give you a winch up the steep stuff
If you have the money that you want to spend than why not, but don’t start calling normal bikes “retro” bikes or “clockwork bikes” or “analogue bikes” that is used to somehow create superiority of the electric bike whilst also being technically incorrect in descriptions.
Meh,no different from the term push-bike really.
I can understand why people buy eBikes, they’re enormous fun, but I’m puzzled why relatively young riders, ie in their 40s, think they need as opposed to want one.
You answered your own question in the first sentence.
Biking means many different thing to many different people.
Read may article on STW 3 months ago -
https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/would-you-give-in-to-an-e-bike-or-resist/
I don't know about eMTBs but I had a very quick go on a colleague's £10k road ebike (Specialized Turbo Creo I think?), bought on the cycle-to-work scheme.
I didn't know what to say. It's certainly very expensive, but it has all the joy of a good road bike sucked out.
I love my non-electric road bike because it's so light, so responsive, instant. And even though I am a slow old biffer, long lung busting climbs are just a joy.
This heavy ebike was just mushy, unresponsive. Push on the pedals and there's this kind of delay, and then the motor kicks in and takes over. Bleugh.
I guess it has a nice paint job.
Make them wait for you!
I'd have an ebike for places with a push up as it means I could get 3 or 4 times as many runs in compared to pushing up. Not ready for one on our local stuff just yet though.
a group ride with other eeb’ers then I’m afraid retro bikes aren’t invited.
This is possibly the saddest thing IMO, E-bikes have effectively imposed a bit of a financial split in mountain biking...
It reinforces the idea that MTBing is a financial arms race with a high cost of entry.
Also factor in the growing breed of light ebikes - Spesh Levo SL and the new one from Orbea. Less assist but still leaves you fresher plus easy enough to lift over gates. My SL weighs about the same as a DH bike I think - just under 40 lbs. I bought it earlier this year so all bar 3 or 4 rides have been solo, but I did have a cracking ride ride round the Burma Rad with scotroutes back in the summer, we rode at the same speed as each other throughout 🙂
What timbog said.
If you have the cash, the space and the time to ride it then do it.
I bought an ebike because I wanted one. I'm 42. No need fitness wise.
One of the best things about it is being able to go out at lunch do a shitload of climbing and descending in 1.5 hours and then be fresh enough to go out with my mates for 3 hours on normal bikes in the evening. And then ride the next day too.
plan rides that exceed their battery range...........
You’ve clearly never ridden with some PROPERLY fit/fast people… I can assure you I know a few people with minimal body fat on sub 10kg bikes that would crucify your average biffer on a 25kg eBike uphill, and regularly do!
Maybe your average, tubby, middle aged wobbler, but anyone who can ride at a half decent pace is going rip the legs off even a WC XC rider on consistent hills. Having seen it happen, it’s frightening how fast they can ride up hills without a motor, but out with a bunch of good riders they were on the limiter on every single climb. They got savaged.
I’m a fan of them. I have one & I ride it more than my analogue bike now, because I get 2 or 3 times the descending in the same amount of time.
Riding for me is not about bumbling off into the countryside - it’s always been about the gravity side of things. I will always have an analogue, as I still race & love riding it. Most of our riding group have both, so there is always someone out on one, everyone manages fine. If it’s eebs only, we just ride at a faster pace & get more runs in.
As for the distance thing, if they have something with a decent battery, good luck - we did a test at BPW, in eco - 78km & 2650m of climbing & I still had 9% battery remaining. The only time I’ve done that sort of day was racing EWS’s & it’s brutal.
If you have the money that you want to spend than why not, but don’t start calling normal bikes “retro” bikes or “clockwork bikes” or “analogue bikes” that is used to somehow create superiority of the electric bike whilst also being technically incorrect in descriptions.
I think the superiority thing is just in your head, theyre just terms to differentiate between ebike and not ebike. My personal pet hate is "acoustic bike" not because of any superiority thing, but just because its a naff phrase.
I cant see me riding my normal bike (is that phrase ok?) very much since I got the ebike, the normal bike will end up being used for uplift days, foreign trips and days when the ebike is broken I reckon.
I dont *need* an ebike, I wanted one, but I lent it to a mate who we used to ride with 15 years ago, but he had to stop riding due to rheumatoid arthritis. He was able to come out with us on our normal bikes and him on my ebike - he thought it was great, he *needs* an ebike , but theyre too expensive for him to justify getting one.
You’ve clearly never ridden with some PROPERLY fit/fast people… I can assure you I know a few people with minimal body fat on sub 10kg bikes that would crucify your average biffer on a 25kg eBike uphill, and regularly do!
This video shows an average rider matching an Olympic XC rider over an XC course...
I can understand why people buy eBikes, they’re enormous fun, but I’m puzzled why relatively young riders, ie in their 40s, think they need as opposed to want one.
Having fun and age are not related. Why should only old people (or the well trotted out line of disabled people) want to ride an eBike and have fun on it.
Forget all the BS about being just as much of a workout, they are ridden because people find them fun. A lot of people hate riding up hills and find that the worst part of the ride by far so it removes that immediately.
They are not for me as I ride on my own and actually like riding up hills but it is easy for me to understand the appeal for others.
What would I do? Ask myself if I wanted an ebike.
If "no" - do nothing.
If "yes" - consult bank balance, and if that agrees, select and purchase ebike.
What else is there to do?
My response was to get a road bike. I've now got loads of new road riding mates and got tons faster, so when I go back out with the MTB guys on ebikes, I can keep up on my push-bike. Win win.
The guys with ebikes have become pretty unfit, and struggle when on regular bikes now (despite regular ebike riding).
I didn’t know what to say. It’s certainly very expensive, but it has all the joy of a good road bike sucked out.
I think that gets done to all road bikes at the factory?
Genuine question as I don't know the area - is the FoD lumpy? I'd imagine the fun factor of riding as a mixed economy of E and non-E mtbers goes up the more lumpy the terrain.
I guess this conversation must being going on up and down the land with riding groups.
Interesting to spin it the other way around too - if a group has one luddite and all the others go electric, does the naturally aspirated accidentally get left off the whatsapp group.
I'm hoping we buy my wife an emtb soon so that the two of us can ride together with more collective joy. I'll get to spank myself raw keeping up and she'll get to look at the view - everyone a winner.
A while back there were predictions that MTB would become a powered sport/thing relatively soon, this is how it happens isn't it?
I might say it's MTB separating into E-MTB that has the more enduro/DH aspiration and unpowered XC. XC will get a boost as gravellers realise they like pedalling off-road but want a bike that's a bit less sketchy and has proper tyres.
Interesting to spin it the other way around too – if a group has one luddite and all the others go electric, does the naturally aspirated accidentally get left off the whatsapp group.
Depends if they were a bunch of mates you rode with or just people who don't like cycling alone who get together.
What's more important, how/what people ride or the company you ride with?
In a similar way does someone get dropped out of a group if their fitness drops and people are bored of waiting for them? What if one of the group can't justify the cost of a bike over £700 or so? All depends if it's a group of mates or not, I think.
I think it’s all about the variety. I moved to eMTB for health reasons and found it so much of a hoot that I also got an e road bike. I have subsequently updated my analogue CDF to a Fugio and have a winter road bike coming next month, all analogue, having sold my nice carbon Defy in the summer.
This could be a really good thing or an end to you riding with them. Its all going to come down to how good you are friends with them. Are they mates first or are they MTB buddies you ride with?
If they are mates then this can be a good thing as you can explain your analogue life to them and let you plan the rides to your fitness level and set the tempo etc. We have all been there with faster or slower riders and this can leave you either knackered or unsatisfied. My riding mate is a bit less fit than me at the moment so always wants shorter rides, so if he gets an ebike we can do the sort of rides id like to do and he stays happy.
But if they are more MTB buddies they will soon get bored or irritated waiting at the top of climbs and so either you or they will drift apart.
I'd say it depends what you're doing at FoD, i ride there every week on my ebike (and my normal one when required), if you're going round the blue/red trails from Cannop then it's a bit OTT for an ebike, loads of folk ride there, just do different group things.
If you're doing DH stuff, and going up and down the push up path, then ebikes have become more and more prevalent, i see young and old using them, for all the silly comments in this thread, folk don't have lots of time to get their fitness up, or ride for the entire day, they work for a living and have families, if they can get 10 runs in 4 hours and be able to walk the next day they'll see that as a benefit. If this is you, then ebike is an option, but look at the benefits to you, not just the group thing.
For me i ride the ebike for hunting stuff out and so on, when riding with others i tend to turn up earlier, do a couple of hours riding and then start with them, so at least i feel i've used the battery, it works well, i can check trail conditions, check for traps (getting more prevalent as well!) and so on, last Sunday i got over 6 hours on the ebike and found some more stuff, if you get one, make it fit in with what you want, rather than the group thing.
I wouldn't bin the normal bike either, for me my normal enduro is faster downhill, more fun downhill and better for messing about on, it also works for short stuff and normal rides that aren't really needing the ebike (simpler XC stuff), yes it's overbiked, but more fun as again, you just modify what you're doing to get more fun. It also is the bike for uplift days.
As for the daft stuff being said, honestly suggestions about how to nobble ebikers to 'even' it up, styles aren't a problem, we're not daleks, we just lift it over, we even help each other as a group, running batteries down again sounds great, but you will need to be at that fitness level, and if anyone who isn't daft is on an ebike, they'll have a spare battery or extender for those days, as for powering past ebikers on climbs, again you'll need some level of fitness for that, and hope the ebiker is just bimbling up the hill in eco.
They're either friends you ride with in which case it won't make any difference and they'll wait for you at the top or take it in turns to tow you up. Or they're just people you ride with occasionally in which case you need an ebike to keep up or a new set of people to ride with.
Thanks for all the replies, I’ll see how it goes and I’m sure the lie of the land will become readily obvious.
I ride weekly with me on an ebike and a mate on a normal bike. I do the first big hill with the motor off to warm up, then the remainder of the ride I used the motor, but ride uphill at his pace on the boring road/gravel climbs, if its a climb thats fun at the higher speeds ebikes can do uphill (uphill jumps ,drops and roughstuff are fun) then I'll fly off ahead for that section and then wait at the top.
is there a reason your friends are getting ebikes? To cover more distance in the same period of time? Cos they are the latest craze? Due to age or health issues? Or just because they fancy one?
oh, and for the record, its bikes and e-bikes. not acoustic, analogue, non-e.... just bikes (no motor) and e-bikes (motor assisted). 🙂
No, they're all just bikes to me, I don't differentiate between geared, rigid, FS, Motor driven, whatever, just bikes.
oh, and for the record, its bikes and e-bikes. not acoustic, analogue, non-e…. just bikes (no motor) and e-bikes (motor assisted
Thanks. Find the whole analogue thing annoying as a bike is not analogue (or digital) as I certainly don't have any analogue components in my bike.
