Interesting to spin it the other way around too – if a group has one luddite and all the others go electric, does the naturally aspirated accidentally get left off the whatsapp group.

Depends if they were a bunch of mates you rode with or just people who don't like cycling alone who get together.
What's more important, how/what people ride or the company you ride with?
In a similar way does someone get dropped out of a group if their fitness drops and people are bored of waiting for them? What if one of the group can't justify the cost of a bike over £700 or so? All depends if it's a group of mates or not, I think.

I think it’s all about the variety. I moved to eMTB for health reasons and found it so much of a hoot that I also got an e road bike. I have subsequently updated my analogue CDF to a Fugio and have a winter road bike coming next month, all analogue, having sold my nice carbon Defy in the summer.

This could be a really good thing or an end to you riding with them. Its all going to come down to how good you are friends with them. Are they mates first or are they MTB buddies you ride with?

If they are mates then this can be a good thing as you can explain your analogue life to them and let you plan the rides to your fitness level and set the tempo etc. We have all been there with faster or slower riders and this can leave you either knackered or unsatisfied. My riding mate is a bit less fit than me at the moment so always wants shorter rides, so if he gets an ebike we can do the sort of rides id like to do and he stays happy.

But if they are more MTB buddies they will soon get bored or irritated waiting at the top of climbs and so either you or they will drift apart.

I'd say it depends what you're doing at FoD, i ride there every week on my ebike (and my normal one when required), if you're going round the blue/red trails from Cannop then it's a bit OTT for an ebike, loads of folk ride there, just do different group things.

If you're doing DH stuff, and going up and down the push up path, then ebikes have become more and more prevalent, i see young and old using them, for all the silly comments in this thread, folk don't have lots of time to get their fitness up, or ride for the entire day, they work for a living and have families, if they can get 10 runs in 4 hours and be able to walk the next day they'll see that as a benefit. If this is you, then ebike is an option, but look at the benefits to you, not just the group thing.

For me i ride the ebike for hunting stuff out and so on, when riding with others i tend to turn up earlier, do a couple of hours riding and then start with them, so at least i feel i've used the battery, it works well, i can check trail conditions, check for traps (getting more prevalent as well!) and so on, last Sunday i got over 6 hours on the ebike and found some more stuff, if you get one, make it fit in with what you want, rather than the group thing.

I wouldn't bin the normal bike either, for me my normal enduro is faster downhill, more fun downhill and better for messing about on, it also works for short stuff and normal rides that aren't really needing the ebike (simpler XC stuff), yes it's overbiked, but more fun as again, you just modify what you're doing to get more fun. It also is the bike for uplift days.

As for the daft stuff being said, honestly suggestions about how to nobble ebikers to 'even' it up, styles aren't a problem, we're not daleks, we just lift it over, we even help each other as a group, running batteries down again sounds great, but you will need to be at that fitness level, and if anyone who isn't daft is on an ebike, they'll have a spare battery or extender for those days, as for powering past ebikers on climbs, again you'll need some level of fitness for that, and hope the ebiker is just bimbling up the hill in eco.

They're either friends you ride with in which case it won't make any difference and they'll wait for you at the top or take it in turns to tow you up. Or they're just people you ride with occasionally in which case you need an ebike to keep up or a new set of people to ride with.

Thanks for all the replies, I’ll see how it goes and I’m sure the lie of the land will become readily obvious.

I ride weekly with me on an ebike and a mate on a normal bike. I do the first big hill with the motor off to warm up, then the remainder of the ride I used the motor, but ride uphill at his pace on the boring road/gravel climbs, if its a climb thats fun at the higher speeds ebikes can do uphill (uphill jumps ,drops and roughstuff are fun) then I'll fly off ahead for that section and then wait at the top.

is there a reason your friends are getting ebikes? To cover more distance in the same period of time? Cos they are the latest craze? Due to age or health issues? Or just because they fancy one?

oh, and for the record, its bikes and e-bikes. not acoustic, analogue, non-e.... just bikes (no motor) and e-bikes (motor assisted). 🙂

No, they're all just bikes to me, I don't differentiate between geared, rigid, FS, Motor driven, whatever, just bikes.

oh, and for the record, its bikes and e-bikes. not acoustic, analogue, non-e…. just bikes (no motor) and e-bikes (motor assisted

Thanks. Find the whole analogue thing annoying as a bike is not analogue (or digital) as I certainly don't have any analogue components in my bike.

I keep thinking it's only a matter of time before my riding mate gets one. He's early>mid 60s now and he still keeps astounding me with his efforts. So we get up to the top of a hill and i wait... Or i ride slower and drag him up, depends on the hill really, but both options work fine.

I have no doubt, when/if he gets an ebike, the same will happen and he'll wait for me or cruise up while i pull a hernia 🙂 That's how it works, he's a mate 🙂

I guess it boils down to ALL.
I ride with mates on ebikes but I'm not the only non eBiker ... I think it would be more difficult if you were the only one.

A while back there were predictions that MTB would become a powered sport/thing relatively soon, this is how it happens isn’t it?
I might say it’s MTB separating into E-MTB that has the more enduro/DH aspiration and unpowered XC. XC will get a boost as gravellers realise they like pedalling off-road but want a bike that’s a bit less sketchy and has proper tyres.

I think the thing to note is that the OP and several other posters aren't necessarily talking about MTBing as a "sport" but just as a social/solo "leisure activity". You know what cycling actually is to most people (especially new 2020 "Covid cyclists"?). They buy a bike to ride just for the fun of riding (and maybe to combat the pies a bit), on their own and/or with friends. I've no doubt E-bikes are fun, but they're bloody pricey and riding with E-bikerists on a "clockwork" bike just isn't going to be fun in the longer term.

So if your newer to MTBing and/or lack the £5k+ of disposable cash to throw at a leccy toy to "keep up" with your richer mates then it is going to reduce your circle of MTBing buddies and your enjoyment. There is emerging a split between those who can afford/justify an E-bike to hoon about with the other dentists and bankers and those who just can't.
I'm sure in some areas and sub-niches that's just going to drive a few people away from MTBing in general either to completely different activities or towards road/gravel.
If anything because there's far fewer 'E-Gravel bikes' on sale, and the gravel niche doesn't seem to need/want them, the accelerating promotion and uptake of E-MTBs may well drive a few away from MTBing towards Gravel. Gravel becomes seen as the version of cycling with a lower (financial) cost of entry, an overall less competitive vibe and lacking the impatient, hassling influence of so many electrically supplemented participants...

As for E-bike racing as a competitive sport?
I'm sure it'll become more of a thing, but as a format I can't really see E-bike racing being any more engaging or interesting to watch than a good XC/CX/Enduro/road race. It will only ever really be a showcase for the bike companies most expensive flagship toys. In a lot of people's minds racing and winning on "clockwork bikes" will always be the more prestigious "honest" form of bicycle racing...
Let's be honest it wasn't that long ago people were decrying "Mechanical dopers" with motors hidden in their frames, now we want to elevate essentially the same thing to the status of being a "Sport"? So when does Lance get his TDF wins back then?

Choose routes with lots of stiles or gates that bikes need to be carried over

Let’s be honest it wasn’t that long ago people were decrying “Mechanical dopers” with motors hidden in their frames, now we want to elevate essentially the same thing to the status of being a “Sport”? So when does Lance get his TDF wins back then?

far be it from me to defend ebike racing - as I think its a little bit ridiculous - certainly the current formats. Ebike racing doesnt seems to add anything over and above normal bike racing - aside from giving manufacturers a showcase for their wares - maybe thats all racing is anyway?

But theres a massive difference between cheating ,ie braking the rules of the competition by secretly using a motor to increase your chances of winning against other people who have no motor, and a race series that is specifically set up so that people with motors compete against other people with motors.

But theres a massive difference between cheating ,ie braking the rules of the competition by secretly using a motor to increase your chances of winning against other people who have no motor, and a race series that is specifically set up so that people with motors compete against other people with motors.

Yeah I know, it was just a little hyperbolic straw man to illustrate how ridiculous I think E-bike racing really is.

I can't really see E-cycling becoming the mainstream version of any flavour of competitive cycling, just like I can't see an "anything goes - Doper's Tour" becoming a popular version of pro cycling...

oh, and for the record, its bikes and e-bikes. not acoustic, analogue, non-e…. just bikes (no motor) and e-bikes (motor assisted).

What record is that then? The record of joyless miserable black and white world views?

@blackflag, what do you refer to them as then? Do you give bikes (as in a pedal powered, two wheeled device, that we have ridden for many moons without any assistance/motor) a fancy name? To make your world view a bit more technicoloured?

in future I will let you know that the posts I make are in my opinion and others are more than welcome to create their own.

PS. they are still bikes and e-bikes 😛

All my riding buddies are getting e-mtb’s, what would STW do ?

Something to do with frozen sausages and lawns?

Or do any of them own a pet dog?

I’ve just bought a s/h e-mtb and I’m looking forward to seeing how it’ll change some of the riding I do. It’ll never be better than my Liteville 301 at slow, techy, trialsy descending but I’m hoping that it’ll open up more technical climbing to me - some stuff that at the age of 68 is getting beyond enjoyable.
But I’ll only be using it when I’m out on my own (which,tbh, is most of the time) or with others on e-bikes, not with people on “normal” bikes because I don’t see how that can ever properly work.
Group rides chances are I’ll still be on my rigid singlespeed...
Also a lot of my riding involves getting over walls and fences plus often some carrying and I’m not going to be doing that with something weighing getting on for 25kgs...I’ll treat as if I’d bought, say, a trials bike (which I was tempted to do) - something different altogether.

I had this dilemma around 3/4 years ago, and I held out for another year, with my e-bike friends being very patient with me*. 2 or so year ago I bought a e-bike and I have not looked back, I've had more fun, done more and am even enjoying riding through a very miserable winter. I love them and can only recommend you demo one and see if you actually like it yourself

I have to add, as group we've now ridden more together than ever, in new places we simply wouldn't have (due to their fitness), and are exploring new place too. It's enhanced our riding together. This would never have happened on manual bikes, no one (in my group) in our early 50's, was going to get 'cycle fit', when they have family and work pressures

* now I have one, I remember.. I was the limiting rides to my fitness, it meant they put up with a hell of a lot, and didn't say a thing about it - generally very good guys, who patently waited for me to fold & accept the future.

who patently waited for me to fold & accept the future.

Seems to be the future for group rides where the group have moved to e-bikes. Not sure it is the future for those of us that ride alone. If I wanted to go further and more quickly under electric power I would get something like this. In fact I would love one.

The guys with ebikes have become pretty unfit, and struggle when on regular bikes now (despite regular ebike riding).

I can’t afford one so it’s a bit moot but this is the crux for me. I’m overweight and underfit. I might not like the uphills but I need to grind up them as best I can to get fitter and lose weight.

Whenever I see someone on a really nice e MTB they are always a chunky build!

That Yamaha thing looks wicked^^^. See also KTM E-XC, Cake Kalk, Alta Redshift, etc.

I would absolutely love one of those but they're proper motorbikes and therefore illegal to ride almost everywhere in the UK. I won't have one for the same reason I've never bothered getting a bike licence. Almost zero access to the stuff I'd actually enjoy doing.

An e-bike though, like a Commencal Meta SX, I could take anywhere and everywhere. It would take my current riding habits and multiply them to the max while increasing stoke across all key indicators.

Everytime I have to slog across a soggy bridelway in the pissing rain on my normal bike I feel like I would prefer death by lethal injection.

(Currently in my 30's and as fit as I'm ever going to get. No danger of ever becoming a "smoking buffer" or having a "chunky build". Always ridden for fun and never ever counted the miles or have any idea what my heart rate is. Used to spend all day pushing crap bikes up DH tracks to bomb back down)

@v7fmp Call them what you like, My point is I'm not going to start telling others what they should or should not call them.

@Blackflag - good stuff.

ha ha. Have a good Christmas

whether that is an analogue or digital Christmas, whatever that means.

re the fitness thing. I have had more PR's on my gravel bike since getting my ebikes, than when I used regular road and MTBs - I don't think it's wholly down to getting out more though that will be part of it.

You know what iainc, you might just be onto something there.

Group rides of more than 2/3 are mostly faffing. Do e-bikes reduce this?

Meh,no different from the term push-bike really.

Well you do push a push bike along with the pedals.
"Retro bike" a non electric bike is not retro unless it is an old bike otherwise it's just a bike.
"Clockwork bike" an non electronic bike is not powered by clockwork anything more than a n electric bike is.
"Analogue bike" a modern electric bike has a digitally controlled, that's the digital par of the bike, an analogue bike would be an electric bike with analogue control.

Irrespective of the accuracy it's all stuff made up by people to try and create more the feeling that a normal bike is out of date and inferior. If you like an electric bike that fine and dandy but its not superior, it's different.

How about "proper bike"?

Well you do push a push bike along with the pedals.
“Retro bike” a non electric bike is not retro unless it is an old bike otherwise it’s just a bike.
“Clockwork bike” an non electronic bike is not powered by clockwork anything more than a n electric bike is.
“Analogue bike” a modern electric bike has a digitally controlled, that’s the digital par of the bike, an analogue bike would be an electric bike with analogue control.

Irrespective of the accuracy it’s all stuff made up by people to try and create more the feeling that a normal bike is out of date and inferior. If you like an electric bike that fine and dandy but its not superior, it’s different.

Again, meh.

I'm not for a minute saying non ebikes are inferior, I don't have an ebike, but some folks are desperate to maintain some form of bike class for some bizarre reason.

Irrespective of the accuracy it’s all stuff made up by people to try and create more the feeling that a normal bike is out of date and inferior. If you like an electric bike that fine and dandy but its not superior, it’s different.

It's really not trying to bestow inferiority on poverty bikes , that's in your head. It's just wanting to differentiate between the ferrari of bikes and the Robin reliant of bikes.

*hopefully people can see my attempt at humour here

Not really, Julian, where is it?

Somewhere on this thread someone referred to their non e-bike as a 'legacy' bike.

A small part of me just died inside.

Feels like the start of the end - ffwd a few years to when overpowered & 'chipped' e-bikes become the norm and all wheeled vehicles get banned from bridleways.

Just when I'd started to accept the presence of ebikers in the world, then they further antagonize me with their use of the words clockwork and analogue.
Back to hating them now. (Well mainly the ones on this forum who've used those terms).
God people are irritating!

What would STW do? Probably buy one, they're cheap compared to an A4 estate or T6.

What would I do? Drift off and ride with others. No way Im spending £3k on an E-bike to get a moderately good FS.

I can see how going out for an e-bike ride is fun. But it's a different hobby really. Or a hobby rather than a sport if you want to be snobby.

If I had £3k to spend on a bike it'd be a trials bike. I might reconsider that if I lived somewhere like the Lake district. An E-mtb would be fun for a big day out, especially one with multiple big, only just ridable climbs. But I'd still want to go on a normal road ride on a sunday morning, and a normal mtb ride in the evenings.

Who was that enormously fat guy in the original Dune film? That's genuinely what I see in my mind when I read a post from an e-evangelist.

P.s. sorry for my rudeness. I've had a drink and have been keeping a lid on my off the cuff remarks for so long due to the actual, real troubles in the world.

iainc isn't quite as big as that.

Yet.

😆

Hold on... it was the Baron something.
If only there was a searchable database...

Actually, I can see the resemblance. The Baron does appear to have two functioning shoulders though.

Similar levels of facial scarring too.....

He’s a bit ginger tho..

Feels like the start of the end – ffwd a few years to when overpowered & ‘chipped’ e-bikes become the norm and all wheeled vehicles get banned from bridleways.

I can appreciate pedal assist bikes for commuting and transport but I'm not entirely convinced they're a good idea off road. The increased power clearly causes increased trail damage, combined with people tending to ride further/more often. I suspect they'll be further restricted as more conflict emerges, proactive enforcement will be undertaken and they will die back to a degree, much like crossers seem to have. I seriously doubt normal bikes will be banned from bridleways.

I think your getting your predictions mixed up with your personal wishes.

“The increased power clearly causes increased trail damage, combined with people tending to ride further/more often.”

Yes and yes but it’s a far less significant effect than how you choose to ride a bike. A normal bike with spikes will cut up a trail worse than an ebike on intermediate tyres. A horse will be about ten times as bad. And a motocross bike about ten times as bad as that.

I remember similar discussions many years ago when derailleurs started to proliferate.

A 3 speed hub was regarded as something suitable for the elderly. 🙂

You mean it isn't?

I thought the 3 speeds were: sit, stand & push 🤔

I'm 39, unemployed, fit, have a full sus ebike and ride with my pals who don't have motors in their bikes. Never seems to be a problem?
I think it helps that I enjoy bimbling and going down trails, but have never really cared for the uphill whereas my pals all enjoy cycling up. So they like having me going a bit faster to egg them on, and I like being nice and fresh at the top of the trail so I can concentrate on the downhill.

Maybe instead of legacy or clockwork we can call them purist bikes, or aryan bikes, then we can have aryan races!.

I have been through the Ebike thing. Just did not feel right on them. Yes Ben Cleuch in 45 mins was nice but just never got along with them in steep terrain up and down the country. Like the rawness and simplicity of mtb.

Maybe instead of legacy or clockwork we can call them purist bikes, or aryan bikes, then we can have aryan races!.

Or we can call them bikes

Everything else is an elaboration on a solely human powered engineering marvel

I think I'd struggle to lift one onto the bike rack - and it's a tow ball one!

Mixed E Bike / non E Bike rides suck for the E Biker. Tried it myself a few times where I'm on the E Bike and the other's are on analogues. I was just stood there waiting for most of the ride. It sucked. Great if you like to do loads of standing around waiting! I know I don't!

Mixed E Bike / non E Bike rides suck for the E Biker. Tried it myself a few times where I’m on the E Bike and the other’s are on analogues. I was just stood there waiting for most of the ride. It sucked.

I've done a lot of riding as the only ebiker in a group, I just turned down the power and rode slower. Kinda like a faster rider riding with slower ones really.

My local trails are all fairly flat so ebike/ bikes mix quite well. With the less fit riders on e bikes and everyone is waiting around less then we used to.

My local trails are all fairly flat so ebike/ bikes mix quite well. With the less fit riders on e bikes and everyone is waiting around less then we used to.

That's not too bad - Until the E Bikers get derestricted! 30mph on the flat!

I’ve done a lot of riding as the only ebiker in a group, I just turned down the power and rode slower. Kinda like a faster rider riding with slower ones really.

I've tried that and never enjoyed it.

I just can't resist the temptation to shoot off up the hill. It's an E Bike, to me it just feels that it is not meant to be ridden any other way.

It's the analogue bike every time for group rides for me unless I happen to go to an All E Bike group.

kerley
You mean it isn’t?

Being of a certain age, I may have to fit a 3 speed hub for my next ride up Bealach na Bah.

The dynamic has clearly changed. I'd try it and see if it still works for you and them.

If you go to a trail centre nowadays, I was at Grizedale today, its about 50/50 bikes to ebikes. There was a mixed group at Blind Lane car park that were riding together. Didn't see any when I was actually riding.

Last time I was at Grizedale three chaps blased by and judging by their speed they didn't appear to be limited. They are in that case just mopeds and have no right to be on the trails - that is not a sancitmonious opinion, it is a fact.

I don't mind sharing the trails and appreciate all sorts enoying the outdoors, even singlespeeds.

I bought a s/h ebike to aid my covid recuperation and its been brilliant for that and these days I can get to the top of the hills much before my mates even with only 80% lung capacity but it all feels a little too easy so not as satisfying- on that basis I have just started putting together the bits to build up a full susser and take my place at the back again!!

I will probably hang onto the ebike in the immediate future as I do have another mate with an ebike and if we go together its a whole different style of riding as we get to cover much more ground in the same time and techy singletrack uphills are great fun.

However I do find myself concerned at the rising numbers of ebikers who haven't a clue about trail etiquette as they are new to the sport and certainly at Cannock you can see a group of ten about to do an off piste trail knowing that trail will be destroyed in next to no time - however that's a different subject matter I suppose

I sat on the fence for ages before taking the plunge and bought an ebike.

It's getting me out more, Im covering more miles but still feel like I'm getting a workout too.

Sold all my other bikes to be able to afford it and don't regret it one bit.

My best mate was riding a 2008 spesh enduro and had a 5 minute blast on mine and was sold. He went and bought one too.

I fought it for a long time but now at 59,and still pretty fit,my wife and I want to do even longer rides for more consecutive days.Retirement is coming in the new year and 10 days back to back rides of 25 to 30 miles a day leaves me a bit wasted.The ebike lets me do this and not shorten the routes or have rest days.My view that it was cheating has changed,I now go further for longer and for more days ,the bikes give us a “get out of jail free card”at the end of a long weeks riding,or when the weather closes in at the end of a hard ride.They also allow us to beat the light when riding in winter,we can go a bit further,a bit quicker and not worry about having to push hard to get back to the camper at the end of a cold day out.My mind has been changed.
all the best

I've a mate with an eBike, just means I get a bloody good workout! Yes, he's likely to bugger off up the hills but then he has to wait, which at this time of year means he gets cold, I on the other hand don't have that issue.
It's all good though, in my book it doesn't matter what you ride as long as you're not being a dick (this applies to many aspects of life).

Of course if you really want to get your own back on eMTB's then just organise day-trips, or maybe some bike-packing. Their battery will be dead after a few hours and then they're just riding a heavy bike around.

I’ve mentioned this on other threads and everyone seems to think I’m weird for doing so, but (pre-pandemic) I would ride my ebike unassisted on group rides. I’d do a solo ride on max assist to get to and from the group ride so it made sense to me.

Obviously it’s harder than pedalling a normal bike but it’s quite satisfying, akin to doing bodyweight exercises with added weight or a run with a pack or weighted webbing. With a mixed ability group there’s usually enough spread of fitness that I don’t end up dying at the back like this, whilst in eco I’d be at the front feeling like I wasn’t getting much exercise.

It’s also not as hard as you’d think - it’s not that much extra weight for the total bike+rider system and and on a Levo there’s very little drag from the motor.

Get an e-bike with a hidden motor and humiliate them.

Def need new friends I mean gawd — get a fun hard tail

I don’t mind sharing the trails and appreciate all sorts enoying the outdoors, even singlespeeds

Easy now, you'll only encourage them.

Op, I'd just do whatever gets you the most enjoyment riding, whether that be ebike or not. With mates or not. Don't listen to us, and that most definitely includes me.lol

Ebikes just leave me emotionally cold, they are the opposite to what riding a bike is about for me.

But..... I think it's bloody great that others absolutely love riding them. Im not the fun police and everyone's idea of what riding a bike is about to them is purely personal and completely valid.

I don't care who I share the trails and bridleways with.... horse riders, ebikers, trail runners, hikers, dog walkers.

As long as rule 1 is applied I see no negatives, just people enjoying the countryside in a way that suites them.👍

The increased power clearly causes increased trail damage, combined with people tending to ride further/more often

Rubbish, the power assist doesnt make them wheel spin down the trails! The weight of the bikes is no more than awful DH bikes from the past or long travel enduro bike! So people can do more laps, people never complained about fit people doing two laps of a trail centre instead of one, or restricted people to riding trails once a week instead of two! Utter tosh!

However I do find myself concerned at the rising numbers of ebikers who haven’t a clue about trail etiquette as they are new to the sport and certainly at Cannock you can see a group of ten about to do an off piste trail knowing that trail will be destroyed in next to no time – however that’s a different subject matter I suppose

New riders do need to learn riding etiquette, hell even some experienced riders need to learn etiquette! People can be a-holes regardless of bike riding experience. Offpiste trails always get torn up once they become mainstream/exposed/popular, if the guys werent on e-bikes they would have still made it there on analogue bikes.

Ebikes just leave me emotionally cold, they are the opposite to what riding a bike is about for me.

+1

However I do find myself concerned at the rising numbers of ebikers who haven’t a clue about trail etiquette as they are new to the sport and certainly at Cannock you can see a group of ten about to do an off piste trail knowing that trail will be destroyed in next to no time – however that’s a different subject matter I supposE

the fact they don’t know about your unwritten rules is a problem?

Haha Jam-bo
I think the don't be a dick rule is fairly well captured in the written form- I think Billy Shakespeare may have actually incorporated it in his early works

There has been videos showing ebikers cutting corners on the made trails at cannock leading to barging in front of other riders following the trail which I would say contravenes the rule above

The well recognised 'etiquette' for off piste is not to over traffic said trails in the middle of a a very wet period thus leaving them shagged come the drier months- hopefully not too hard to comprehend or possibly just me and my mates have a little more respect for the hard work the trail pixies put in?- anyway I did say it was probably for a separate subject matter but thanks for the observation....

All those things have been happening before e-bikes.

The increased power clearly causes increased trail damage, combined with people tending to ride further/more often

Rubbish, the power assist doesnt make them wheel spin down the trails!

no but you are able to ride trails in poorer conditions and this will do more damage.

and its quite easy to spin wheels up trails in the slop just mashing on boost to get you up.

and an ebike will probably have more aggressive tyres on (as rolling resistance isnt really an issue)

i can see the issues - doesnt mean they are not the best thing ever though

I have been through the Ebike thing. Just did not feel right on them. Yes Ben Cleuch in 45 mins was nice but just never got along with them in steep terrain up and down the country. Like the rawness and simplicity of mtb

Ye see, this is a sensible opinion, tried it, not for me, no judgement/wrath/superiority, done. Similarly, I tried a fatbike and a gravel bike, ditto, not for me mainly as they're neither of them any good for the type of riding I enjoy, but it was good to try it.

The well recognised ‘etiquette’ for off piste is not to over traffic said trails in the middle of a a very wet period thus leaving them shagged come the drier months

Or folks could join said 'pixies' and help out with trail repairs. Folk that moan about the state of trails and do **** all about it are wayyy more common than ebikers IME.