I keep thinking it's only a matter of time before my riding mate gets one. He's early>mid 60s now and he still keeps astounding me with his efforts. So we get up to the top of a hill and i wait... Or i ride slower and drag him up, depends on the hill really, but both options work fine.
I have no doubt, when/if he gets an ebike, the same will happen and he'll wait for me or cruise up while i pull a hernia 🙂 That's how it works, he's a mate 🙂
I guess it boils down to ALL.
I ride with mates on ebikes but I'm not the only non eBiker ... I think it would be more difficult if you were the only one.
A while back there were predictions that MTB would become a powered sport/thing relatively soon, this is how it happens isn’t it?
I might say it’s MTB separating into E-MTB that has the more enduro/DH aspiration and unpowered XC. XC will get a boost as gravellers realise they like pedalling off-road but want a bike that’s a bit less sketchy and has proper tyres.
I think the thing to note is that the OP and several other posters aren't necessarily talking about MTBing as a "sport" but just as a social/solo "leisure activity". You know what cycling actually is to most people (especially new 2020 "Covid cyclists"?). They buy a bike to ride just for the fun of riding (and maybe to combat the pies a bit), on their own and/or with friends. I've no doubt E-bikes are fun, but they're bloody pricey and riding with E-bikerists on a "clockwork" bike just isn't going to be fun in the longer term.
So if your newer to MTBing and/or lack the £5k+ of disposable cash to throw at a leccy toy to "keep up" with your richer mates then it is going to reduce your circle of MTBing buddies and your enjoyment. There is emerging a split between those who can afford/justify an E-bike to hoon about with the other dentists and bankers and those who just can't.
I'm sure in some areas and sub-niches that's just going to drive a few people away from MTBing in general either to completely different activities or towards road/gravel.
If anything because there's far fewer 'E-Gravel bikes' on sale, and the gravel niche doesn't seem to need/want them, the accelerating promotion and uptake of E-MTBs may well drive a few away from MTBing towards Gravel. Gravel becomes seen as the version of cycling with a lower (financial) cost of entry, an overall less competitive vibe and lacking the impatient, hassling influence of so many electrically supplemented participants...
As for E-bike racing as a competitive sport?
I'm sure it'll become more of a thing, but as a format I can't really see E-bike racing being any more engaging or interesting to watch than a good XC/CX/Enduro/road race. It will only ever really be a showcase for the bike companies most expensive flagship toys. In a lot of people's minds racing and winning on "clockwork bikes" will always be the more prestigious "honest" form of bicycle racing...
Let's be honest it wasn't that long ago people were decrying "Mechanical dopers" with motors hidden in their frames, now we want to elevate essentially the same thing to the status of being a "Sport"? So when does Lance get his TDF wins back then?
Choose routes with lots of stiles or gates that bikes need to be carried over
Let’s be honest it wasn’t that long ago people were decrying “Mechanical dopers” with motors hidden in their frames, now we want to elevate essentially the same thing to the status of being a “Sport”? So when does Lance get his TDF wins back then?
far be it from me to defend ebike racing - as I think its a little bit ridiculous - certainly the current formats. Ebike racing doesnt seems to add anything over and above normal bike racing - aside from giving manufacturers a showcase for their wares - maybe thats all racing is anyway?
But theres a massive difference between cheating ,ie braking the rules of the competition by secretly using a motor to increase your chances of winning against other people who have no motor, and a race series that is specifically set up so that people with motors compete against other people with motors.
But theres a massive difference between cheating ,ie braking the rules of the competition by secretly using a motor to increase your chances of winning against other people who have no motor, and a race series that is specifically set up so that people with motors compete against other people with motors.
Yeah I know, it was just a little hyperbolic straw man to illustrate how ridiculous I think E-bike racing really is.
I can't really see E-cycling becoming the mainstream version of any flavour of competitive cycling, just like I can't see an "anything goes - Doper's Tour" becoming a popular version of pro cycling...
oh, and for the record, its bikes and e-bikes. not acoustic, analogue, non-e…. just bikes (no motor) and e-bikes (motor assisted).
What record is that then? The record of joyless miserable black and white world views?
@blackflag, what do you refer to them as then? Do you give bikes (as in a pedal powered, two wheeled device, that we have ridden for many moons without any assistance/motor) a fancy name? To make your world view a bit more technicoloured?
in future I will let you know that the posts I make are in my opinion and others are more than welcome to create their own.
PS. they are still bikes and e-bikes 😛
All my riding buddies are getting e-mtb’s, what would STW do ?
Something to do with frozen sausages and lawns?
Or do any of them own a pet dog?
I’ve just bought a s/h e-mtb and I’m looking forward to seeing how it’ll change some of the riding I do. It’ll never be better than my Liteville 301 at slow, techy, trialsy descending but I’m hoping that it’ll open up more technical climbing to me - some stuff that at the age of 68 is getting beyond enjoyable.
But I’ll only be using it when I’m out on my own (which,tbh, is most of the time) or with others on e-bikes, not with people on “normal” bikes because I don’t see how that can ever properly work.
Group rides chances are I’ll still be on my rigid singlespeed...
Also a lot of my riding involves getting over walls and fences plus often some carrying and I’m not going to be doing that with something weighing getting on for 25kgs...I’ll treat as if I’d bought, say, a trials bike (which I was tempted to do) - something different altogether.
I had this dilemma around 3/4 years ago, and I held out for another year, with my e-bike friends being very patient with me*. 2 or so year ago I bought a e-bike and I have not looked back, I've had more fun, done more and am even enjoying riding through a very miserable winter. I love them and can only recommend you demo one and see if you actually like it yourself
I have to add, as group we've now ridden more together than ever, in new places we simply wouldn't have (due to their fitness), and are exploring new place too. It's enhanced our riding together. This would never have happened on manual bikes, no one (in my group) in our early 50's, was going to get 'cycle fit', when they have family and work pressures
* now I have one, I remember.. I was the limiting rides to my fitness, it meant they put up with a hell of a lot, and didn't say a thing about it - generally very good guys, who patently waited for me to fold & accept the future.
who patently waited for me to fold & accept the future.
Seems to be the future for group rides where the group have moved to e-bikes. Not sure it is the future for those of us that ride alone. If I wanted to go further and more quickly under electric power I would get something like this. In fact I would love one.
The guys with ebikes have become pretty unfit, and struggle when on regular bikes now (despite regular ebike riding).
I can’t afford one so it’s a bit moot but this is the crux for me. I’m overweight and underfit. I might not like the uphills but I need to grind up them as best I can to get fitter and lose weight.
Whenever I see someone on a really nice e MTB they are always a chunky build!
That Yamaha thing looks wicked^^^. See also KTM E-XC, Cake Kalk, Alta Redshift, etc.
I would absolutely love one of those but they're proper motorbikes and therefore illegal to ride almost everywhere in the UK. I won't have one for the same reason I've never bothered getting a bike licence. Almost zero access to the stuff I'd actually enjoy doing.
An e-bike though, like a Commencal Meta SX, I could take anywhere and everywhere. It would take my current riding habits and multiply them to the max while increasing stoke across all key indicators.
Everytime I have to slog across a soggy bridelway in the pissing rain on my normal bike I feel like I would prefer death by lethal injection.
(Currently in my 30's and as fit as I'm ever going to get. No danger of ever becoming a "smoking buffer" or having a "chunky build". Always ridden for fun and never ever counted the miles or have any idea what my heart rate is. Used to spend all day pushing crap bikes up DH tracks to bomb back down)
@v7fmp Call them what you like, My point is I'm not going to start telling others what they should or should not call them.
ha ha. Have a good Christmas
whether that is an analogue or digital Christmas, whatever that means.
re the fitness thing. I have had more PR's on my gravel bike since getting my ebikes, than when I used regular road and MTBs - I don't think it's wholly down to getting out more though that will be part of it.
You know what iainc, you might just be onto something there.
Group rides of more than 2/3 are mostly faffing. Do e-bikes reduce this?
Meh,no different from the term push-bike really.
Well you do push a push bike along with the pedals.
"Retro bike" a non electric bike is not retro unless it is an old bike otherwise it's just a bike.
"Clockwork bike" an non electronic bike is not powered by clockwork anything more than a n electric bike is.
"Analogue bike" a modern electric bike has a digitally controlled, that's the digital par of the bike, an analogue bike would be an electric bike with analogue control.
Irrespective of the accuracy it's all stuff made up by people to try and create more the feeling that a normal bike is out of date and inferior. If you like an electric bike that fine and dandy but its not superior, it's different.
How about "proper bike"?
Well you do push a push bike along with the pedals.
“Retro bike” a non electric bike is not retro unless it is an old bike otherwise it’s just a bike.
“Clockwork bike” an non electronic bike is not powered by clockwork anything more than a n electric bike is.
“Analogue bike” a modern electric bike has a digitally controlled, that’s the digital par of the bike, an analogue bike would be an electric bike with analogue control.Irrespective of the accuracy it’s all stuff made up by people to try and create more the feeling that a normal bike is out of date and inferior. If you like an electric bike that fine and dandy but its not superior, it’s different.
Again, meh.
I'm not for a minute saying non ebikes are inferior, I don't have an ebike, but some folks are desperate to maintain some form of bike class for some bizarre reason.
Irrespective of the accuracy it’s all stuff made up by people to try and create more the feeling that a normal bike is out of date and inferior. If you like an electric bike that fine and dandy but its not superior, it’s different.
It's really not trying to bestow inferiority on poverty bikes , that's in your head. It's just wanting to differentiate between the ferrari of bikes and the Robin reliant of bikes.
*hopefully people can see my attempt at humour here
Not really, Julian, where is it?
Somewhere on this thread someone referred to their non e-bike as a 'legacy' bike.
A small part of me just died inside.
Feels like the start of the end - ffwd a few years to when overpowered & 'chipped' e-bikes become the norm and all wheeled vehicles get banned from bridleways.
Just when I'd started to accept the presence of ebikers in the world, then they further antagonize me with their use of the words clockwork and analogue.
Back to hating them now. (Well mainly the ones on this forum who've used those terms).
God people are irritating!
What would STW do? Probably buy one, they're cheap compared to an A4 estate or T6.
What would I do? Drift off and ride with others. No way Im spending £3k on an E-bike to get a moderately good FS.
I can see how going out for an e-bike ride is fun. But it's a different hobby really. Or a hobby rather than a sport if you want to be snobby.
If I had £3k to spend on a bike it'd be a trials bike. I might reconsider that if I lived somewhere like the Lake district. An E-mtb would be fun for a big day out, especially one with multiple big, only just ridable climbs. But I'd still want to go on a normal road ride on a sunday morning, and a normal mtb ride in the evenings.
Who was that enormously fat guy in the original Dune film? That's genuinely what I see in my mind when I read a post from an e-evangelist.
P.s. sorry for my rudeness. I've had a drink and have been keeping a lid on my off the cuff remarks for so long due to the actual, real troubles in the world.
iainc isn't quite as big as that.
Yet.
😆
Hold on... it was the Baron something.
If only there was a searchable database...
Actually, I can see the resemblance. The Baron does appear to have two functioning shoulders though.
Similar levels of facial scarring too.....
He’s a bit ginger tho..
Feels like the start of the end – ffwd a few years to when overpowered & ‘chipped’ e-bikes become the norm and all wheeled vehicles get banned from bridleways.
I can appreciate pedal assist bikes for commuting and transport but I'm not entirely convinced they're a good idea off road. The increased power clearly causes increased trail damage, combined with people tending to ride further/more often. I suspect they'll be further restricted as more conflict emerges, proactive enforcement will be undertaken and they will die back to a degree, much like crossers seem to have. I seriously doubt normal bikes will be banned from bridleways.
I think your getting your predictions mixed up with your personal wishes.
“The increased power clearly causes increased trail damage, combined with people tending to ride further/more often.”
Yes and yes but it’s a far less significant effect than how you choose to ride a bike. A normal bike with spikes will cut up a trail worse than an ebike on intermediate tyres. A horse will be about ten times as bad. And a motocross bike about ten times as bad as that.
I remember similar discussions many years ago when derailleurs started to proliferate.
A 3 speed hub was regarded as something suitable for the elderly. 🙂
You mean it isn't?
I thought the 3 speeds were: sit, stand & push 🤔
I'm 39, unemployed, fit, have a full sus ebike and ride with my pals who don't have motors in their bikes. Never seems to be a problem?
I think it helps that I enjoy bimbling and going down trails, but have never really cared for the uphill whereas my pals all enjoy cycling up. So they like having me going a bit faster to egg them on, and I like being nice and fresh at the top of the trail so I can concentrate on the downhill.
Maybe instead of legacy or clockwork we can call them purist bikes, or aryan bikes, then we can have aryan races!.
I have been through the Ebike thing. Just did not feel right on them. Yes Ben Cleuch in 45 mins was nice but just never got along with them in steep terrain up and down the country. Like the rawness and simplicity of mtb.
