[Closed] A shambolic week with Sierra Cycling

(Mr MC now with my own account!)

I will make one and one only response to Alan so this doesnt descend into a snipefest, so if he replies again as is his right I will not follow up. In bold not because I am more important or shouting, but using the quote function got complicated.

To review your complaints:
Guides: We normally work well with 2 professional guides with total knowledge of all our trails with myself as backup. One had an accident so had to call up a fully qualified Spanish guide. Good but not much English and limited trail knowledge.
The other guide Dave unfortunately fell ill for the whole week and was out of the picture except as a driver for one day.
Ash our new fully qualified guide joined us Tuesday but had no knowledge of the routes.
Still, everyone got out riding each day.

[b]Is that a positive? I would have thought that would be a minumum?![/b]

We gave you an option of splitting your group by ability, something you declined, it would have been better to have 2 groups of 7 given the limited resources for that week.

[b]I was never party to this conversation. Who was it with? The nature of the riding was never discussed so we never had the option of considering where/how to ride. You were asked on more than one day what the plan was and your reply was "oh I dont like plans they have a habit of going wrong". Dave was repeatedly asked about the trail and was completely unable to describe them so we couldnt assess who would ride what[/b]

Buses: Picked up a brand new bus in September thinking that would solve transport problems but second bus broke down with broken alternator. Could have rented another bus but as we were only doing local hills - multiple uplifts with one bus with a short wait seemed the solution to go for.

[b]Why were we only doing local trails? Convenience? Again we were never offered a choice or an itinerary of going further afield. And the one day the guides (you and Ash) were left to load the vans (lunch stop by the mad walkway) one our our groups lovely carbon frame came back with gouges in the top tube. Ash was very careful to pack his bike first out of harms way (and who can blame him)[/b]

There was 14 bikers out that week there was never an option of 10 persons in a 9-seater something which in any case we would not allow.
When the second bus broke down whilst I was away waiting for the repair vehicle your group of 9 insisted in taking the new bus back with a driver making an illegal 10 persons because, once again you wanted to be together.

[b]on the friday YOU drove 10 of us (9 clients and you) in a 9 seater bus. You could have made 2 trips but chose not to. Or hired a second bus given the other was out of action long term. We weren't desperate to stay together and didnt insist on it, we were happy to ride together. How you chose to accommodate that was up to you.[/b]

The others came back in a half empty bus, bet you never offered them the choice of going first.

[b]Again not sure this reflects well on you or warrants a reply. I didn't realise it was our job to manage the transport and juggle clients needs?[/b]

All our guides carry full medical kit, enough spares to get off the mountain and always carry a pump. We expect you to at least bring a basic tool kit if you bring your own bike. Each of our staff is in contact with each other and with the bus for instant response to any problems..

[b]How could dave solve problems sat in cafe when we were riding? Did he call you to tell you he had lost a client? What was your response? You never came to see he had made it home okay? I also know Ash had recommended walkie talkies as there is no reception in places. Dave borrowed one of our pumps to fix Huw's flat, so where was Daves comprehensive kit. I also overheard your conversation with Ash at the trail head outside "tonys place" where you asked him what kit he had (maybe a conversation to have before you leave) and he replied "one tube and some plasters". When we told him how many flats we were having with thorns he replied "oh dont tell me that!" [/b]

By the way the other 2 groups of 3 and 4 bikers not in your party praised our setup and have re-booked for next year.

[b]not surprised given they were a group of at most 5 with 2 guides. I know they have never ridden overseas elsewhere for comparison and during their 2 week stay were re-riding routes as they helped Salvo with route finding. [/b]
Posted On Sierra Cycling facebook page this morning
"Hi big Al thanks to you and Mary and our brother Salva dont forget the boys Danglewood Dave and Gash for a great 2 weeks biking and beers we will be back next year long drive home but we got here see you soon Dave Dawn Steve and Sue"

[b]should I get the other 8 in our group to post up negative replies, or are we just getting immature?[/b]

Nice to know “Cycleactive (and Rich Barnard)” are so good , friend of yours is he?

[b]again not sure this is worth a reply? Only met him the once in Morocco 2 1/2yrs ago, on a holiday we still rave about[/b]

You also came with 3 in the group who obviously liked us well enough to come out for a second visit.

[b]..and were bitterly disappointed this time around, apologetic to the rest of the group, and useful in filling in gaps in guiding and finding lost riders. The key seems to be the loss of the old guide and Dave his replacement. [/b]

We are now back to full strength so hopefully no more problems.

Apologies for the unavoidable problems of last week, avoidable problems will be reviewed and err.. avoided.

I´m sure your posting will do some damage to our reputation and bookings but hopefully the 99% silent majority will still enjoy their time out here with us.

[b]I hope so for their sakes. Your poor service damaged your reputation with a large group of seasoned bike travellers who've used a range of companies. The bare facts are you overloaded a bus, ran a too-large group with one guide who didn't guide and didn't have basic equipment, never communicated any itinerary or options with us, and you took us on illegal trails (which you havent commented on). Others have replied here that they were also underwhelmed with SC. At least future punters can realistically manage their expectations beyond only positive reviews in a guest book. I personally made my feelings very clear to Ash on his first day with us (assuming he hasn't told you about the conversation in the van you might want to ask him). Feel free to maintain a defensive stance and ignore critical feedback, your in your 20th year so obviously you and the majority of your clientele are content with the status quo. [/b]

working with a large group of such mixed ability was going to be impossible ..............split the group

Looking at it another way.

If I went on a surfing* holliday with Miss Spoon, our abilities are slightly different, I'd be peeved off if the guide said we had to go in different groups if we'd paid as a group for a group holliday, not a singles holliday.

*she'd not want to go on a cycling holiday

A bit of a peace offering could have really sorted this out. I read the response as "bollocks you weren't our favorites anyway".

I would be willing to put myself forward as an impartial assessor of their services, I'll only charge £25 / hour plus ex's.

I'll report back pon my return 😆

I used to be a dive guide and in my experience you plan things so you can cope with problems. Expected ones and unexpected ones, likely ones and unlikely ones. You have back up plans, back up guides/routes/vehicles etc.

I had to plan for various equipmnent failures/weather changes etc etc, so it is possible to do. We would plan for everything and even the impossible, it was good practice.

You keep your guests informed and treat them like royalty. You dont act in a laid back shambolic manner, you act in a very professional manner. You seek out feedback all the time day by day. You do not make do. You do not wait for complaints. If a problem arrises you fix it, that your job and that what the guests pay for.

If the group is mixed you cater for it with extra guides / smaller groups / some training etc. You make the suggestion before hand.

Its not up to the guests to do any of this, a good organisation will sort it and ensure the guests have a good time.

If you have to provide a substandard service you do it free and apologise there and then and make it up the next day.

That is how we used to run our diving company, we had to or we would loose out to our competitors because divers use a forum and talk to each other. Just like mountanin bikers.

This company seems to have failed on all counts.

Nice to know “Cycleactive (and Rich Barnard)” are so good , friend of yours is he?

I've been on courses with Cycleactive and they ARE excellent, professional and ultimately offered a great serivce.

I'm sure any professional organisation that offered holidays based around "guided cycling" would be gutted if their customers only got a hour or so's riding while a member of staff who they are paying just sat in a cafe.

A reply to a customer who is disputing that your service is far from good should never contain anything that makes you look unprofessional:

Ouch! That hurt! Maybe you could have said something during the week?

bet you never offered them the choice of going first.

Nice to know “Cycleactive (and Rich Barnard)” are so good , friend of yours is he?

avoidable problems will be reviewed and err.. avoided.

Loved all the other companies jumping on the bandwagon!

Also if I booked a holiday with my friends and we where split up because of ability i'd be gutted. I've gone on holiday with them not some randoms.

Interesting case study of how social media can be used to counter unhappy customers in a professional manner. Or Not.
Andy@crc worked out how to do this
Alan clearly has not and has IMO dug himself a much deeper hole with that tone of response. he comes across as defensive. Attacking CycleActive/Rich Barnard come across as very immature and irrelevant. For the record, as someone who IS a friend, Mr MC's view of Rich is accurate...

Ill be out there over Christmas and despite all your rambling moaning about the trip, I can still see me and my friends having a cracking time.

And re-reading your complaints, its still nothing that would have bothered me on the trip.

Ill let you now how we get on.

broess its a good point, I had expected a short apologetic reply along the lines of "sorry, I had not realised, oversight, half price next year." Even if inside Alan@Sierra was boiling it makes good business sense to kiss arse.

Can't help but feel this is karma for Alan almost leaving me jobless a couple of weeks back, just a shame someone else had to suffer. Wasen't the Spanish chap a temp or does he not know that yet!

Sounds awful and with the large array of competing companies a very unwise response.

The dave hinde of holidays!

The dave hinde of holidays!

Ouch!

Only comment I will make is I spent a long time e-mailing Alan asking about the holiday. He was clearly informed about huge disparity of riding ability in our group. I was informed it could be catered for, in that 2 groups would head out in am, all meet for lunch then maybe separate riding in pm, which we wouldn't have had a problem with. We have been mtbing as a group for 15 yrs so we know each others riding ability and wishes very very well and don't have issues with doing seperate things and meeting up later. Just my comment on riding ability.

Sounds like very poor service. What is equally poor is the failure to accept responsibility for a paying customer being left disappointed.

Personally, I'd have avoided S.C. after the original post but could have been turned round by a professional well considered response. The reality is that I wouldn't touch S.C. with a barge pole now.

This thread is already on page 2 of Google for 'Sierra Cycling', if I was S.C. I would try some damage limitation fast. (I hope that does not mean getting STW towers to kill the thread as a total loss of face would result)

See now this thread is near the top on google. I'd say that immediate compensation and much kissing of butt would have been a better bet all round.

(I hope that does not mean getting STW towers to kill the thread as a total loss of face would result)

Nothing to add really, apart from the observation that the fact the thread has gone on for five pages probably gives an insight into the thinking at STW Towers. That said, they're swift enough to [s]shut down[/s] completely disappear innocent threads when a big company gets all lawyered up, as I've discovered...

This thread is already on page 2 of Google for 'Sierra Cycling'

It's interesting because normally stuff on this forum makes it to page 1 shocking quickly. I suspect it shows how Google are now not counting bad reviews as highly after all the spectacles debacle last year

Trimix hits the nail on the head with regards to customer service.

Sancho - Member
And re-reading your complaints, its still nothing that would have bothered me on the trip.

You'd be happy with one hour's guided riding and being left to fend for yourself for the remainder of the day on the same loop?

Or perhaps it's not climbing google as fast as some threads do because folk are writing SC instead of Sierra Cycling?

Id be happy to go ride stuff in the area - yes.
I dont need to be led around
and looking at the cable car descent Id have sessioned that for the rest of the day.
In fact I hope that is what we do in December.

So not a problem.

Good evening Scruff!

Or perhaps it's not climbing google as fast as some threads do because folk are writing SC instead of Sierra Cycling?

yep

I used Sierra Cycling last year for a weeks holiday, two guides with very different outlook on how to treat a group. Jonny was great, very professional and did his best to ensure everyone was kept happy with the trails. Dave (Kiwi) - useless, couldnt be bothered and spoke more about leaving and getting a "real" job - his words.

I found Alan and his partner very unfriendly, I tried talking with both and I found Alan to not really care, he had his money from me I guess and his partner even less bothered about chatting with people.

The riding was actually pretty good, when Jonny was guiding. We had a pretty mixed group but rather than split the group we had to all go out together, something I raised and two others in the group also raised this. One person got a puncture and Dave couldnt have been less interested when they were having an issue with it. It was fixed by me, the rider and another rider. Dave commented that we hadnt rented the bike from them so he doesnt have to fix it - nice.

I thought the week overall was very poor, the only highlight being some very nice trails (what we went for I guess) and the guide Jonny who is a top bloke. Personally I will never return to Sierra Cycling, if I go back to Spain biking I have heard good things about Ciclo Montana and would probably try them.

I have also used Trail Addiction and Bike Village, both I thought were great, possibly enjoyed the Bike Village week a bit more but that was a pretty awesome week and was my first time biking abroad which probably influences my view a bit.

I have read Alan's reply to the OP so if he reads this fully expect the same sort of denial, up to him I guess, whatever he says it wont change my opinion that he is living off being around for a long time and occasionally getting it right with guests. I doubt he would last long if he was a new start with that attitude.

@aP

10 years ago we had a wonderful holiday with MountainBeach, I think that it was fairly obvious that we would not be returning or recommending them - to the point where one of the guides took me to one side to apologise for the other guide and his girlfriend.

Was this in Cham by any chance?

Id be happy to go ride stuff in the area - yes.
I dont need to be led around
and looking at the cable car descent Id have sessioned that for the rest of the day.
In fact I hope that is what we do in December.

So not a problem.

They why not just rent a place on your own and save the money on paying someone else to tell you something you already know.

Didn't want to fork out for a hire van then?

@JimSu - Italy.

I dont know the area so will want guides for showing us some routes.

So having a guide makes sense.
but then then adapting to the day is something that will make the holiday better.

Also if I booked a holiday with my friends and we where split up because of ability i'd be gutted. I've gone on holiday with them not some randoms.

I've been to Canada and on a couple of days I didn't ride with my mates as they are more skilled they rode some trails i'd have struggled to ride and probably not enjoyed as i'm not into big jumps or big drops but enjoyed the more flow'y singletrack that I rode with smaller drops.

Sometimes I guess you have to split the group for safety/ability reasons.

Read this thread with interest, as I had a very bad experience with a well known, and it seemed at the time, universally well liked MTB business in the Alps. The experience was so bad, it put me off mountain biking for ages so I feel the OP's pain. Think you've done the right thing by posting that last time and moving on...

.

Or perhaps it's not climbing google as fast as some threads do because folk are writing SC instead of Sierra Cycling?

Does google count every time someone writes sierra cycling when it searches? Every single instance of sierra cycling on the internet?

"Sounds like very poor service. What is equally poor is the failure to accept responsibility for a paying customer being left disappointed."

Agree with the above comment for any business. SC is not the only company out there that provides poor value, have been to a few myself. It's not often you find the owner being the one that lets the company down. Have had guides who don't come close to living up to what is expected of the company they guide for, when a complaint has been made the owners have been suprised and shocked (sometimes).

Lesson for all business owners with this sorry tale. You did the right thing Mr MC.

One thing we should remember is that there are some really good guides/companies out there who are a pleaseure to ride with and provide brilliant service.

having been on 7 guided holidays, and worked at one of the better known companies this summer, sierra cycling's operation sounds shoddy as hell, tbh.
if my boss/guides had acted in that way i'd have been mortified, and would have said something myself. as a guest, you pay good money to be looked after, and thats what you should expect.

even when guests are 'challenging' (and not in any way suggesting that mrMC was that), the owners and guides HAVE to go to great lengths to be reasonable, friendly and put a lot of effort into making the holiday a success. its their job.

the company i worked for had a few challenges through the season with vans/accommodation, all it meant was that we all busted our asses to make sure that the holiday wasn't compromised for the guests, even if it meant working non-stop from 7.30am through 10.30pm. and it was done with a smile on the face.

The dave hinde of holidays!

I've heard Sierra Cycling and Dave Hinde will be at the Cycleshow. Either side of some guy selling Mintsauce keyrings. 😆

the company i worked for had a few challenges through the season with vans/accommodation, all it meant was that we all busted our asses to make sure that the holiday wasn't compromised for the guests, even if it meant working non-stop from 7.30am through 10.30pm. and it was done with a smile on the face.

Ditto, when I was a guide. It's part of the job.

To be fair, one thing that really puts me off setting something up is that I will grow bored. But as someone else said "all that means is that it's time to either sell up or find a second/third/fourth location".

What I'm a bit confused about is that when I had a look at the [url= http://www.sierracycling.com/ ]Sierra Cycling[/url] website yesterday I clicked on the link for their guestbook and was taken to [url= http://www.theguestbook.com/read.php/617131/1 ]this page[/url] but today when I clicked on the same link it went [url= http://www.guestbookcentral.com/guestbook.cfm?startrow=1&guestbook=52342 ]here[/url] instead

Either side of some guy selling Mintsauce keyrings.

Ooooof! Be careful fella - [s]criticising[/s] [b]declaring anything that could be construed as negative about[/b] one of the STW 'inner circle' is bound to end up with a ban from Grumpy Mark....

EDIT: To remain squeaky clean I have edited the above statement.

Like he would give a sh1t when there are Sanchos out there that pay for a guided holiday only to go and 'session' something alone.

See this is what happens when you have friends(smilie face)

Billy
Maybe youre not understanding what Im saying

Im going for a guided holiday.
However, if as from time to time things do happen and Im left with an afternoon without a guide then yes Id be happy to sesion one of the trails.
Or find some stuff.

fluffykittens - Member

What I'm a bit confused about is that when I had a look at the Sierra Cycling website yesterday I clicked on the link for their guestbook and was taken to this page but today when I clicked on the same link it went here instead

I spotted that yesterday too . . . 22+ pages of positive reviews from the same 10 visitors in 2007 - bit of a glitch? 😕

bit of a glitch here too 😳

I went out there a few years back and although it was'nt quite as bad as the OP's description, I know where he's coming from. I managed to crash hard on the second day, riding like a **** and half cut from a 4am finish session on the lash. I broke my nose and eye socket at the top of a mountain. It was decided that I would have to go back to the digs whilst the lads carried on the ride obviously. I was fairly concussed and couldn't negotiate which brake did what and basically how to get down the mountain to the van. Alan asked if I was ok. I said yes as I am a macho nob and he rode off down the trail. I got to the van after another couple of near misses. Alan opened the door, put his bike in and jumped in. I struggled to lift my bike in on my own as was pretty smashed up but no help from old Al. On the way back to the digs, he basically ignored me. He may well of thought I was just another idiot who's crashed out, but to show his feelings to a customer? I certainly wont be recommending them to anyone in a hurry. Oh and the state of his bike and kit was laughable. I did enjoy Dave's company though, who had only just started with them and was learning the trails. Good look with that I thought.

Fair enough Sancho.

I just got the impression that you were one of those type of folk who had booked and payed for something down the line which was now receiving poor reviews and felt as if your decision warranted some blind protection.

I stand corrected.

Well I'll be going with an open mind.

But I am the sort who dosent mind a few issues here and there as long as I can get some riding in.

[IMG] [/IMG]

Spot the unhappy customers!

Obviously the only people who really know what happened are SC and the OP's group so it is impossible for me or anyone else who wasn't there at the time to comment although a lot of people think they can slate SC anyway.
The only thing I can say is I have been twice with Sierra Cycling and had a great time on both occasions. While their best asset Jonny has left them for pastures new I can not comment on the present guides. Alan is friendly enough, Mary is a little quiet but also pleasent.
The company is a little laid back but we have always been informed of the starting times, the routes in advance and even asked which we would like to do.

Like a lot of people on here I have done a few guided trips - and my partner and I use them to improve as well as ride in an new and challenging environment.

The guided part of the service is really important us - the guides make the sessions tick in my opinion.

Anyway what I wanted to say after reading this thread is that some companies have put a focus on customer service - and I think that shows in some of the prices, and the quality of the guiding and accomodation on offer accross Europe.

Nobody has metioned the operators margin in the thread - and every guiding company is relient on getting in numbers to make margin. A total of around 14 (?) riders in the week could be too much of a stretch for an operation of this size (gauged by the manpower and resources that have been disclosed in the thread). However, I guess the margins are slim and the temptation to have all of busienss and a 'full week' in the season is important to the operator. They do need to make a living - that's the lifestyle choice they have made - or are trying to make work for them.

The balence has to be what is important to the client.

I am not sure I am bold enough to fully articualte what customer service is to the average person in this forum in the guided mountainbiking space. But I would say I know this about running a business - the best customers are repeat customers - you have less marketing spend attracting them back to you than you do attracting new customers to you - and in every case you have the oppertunity to turn every customer into a promoter (i.e they do your marketing for you) if the experience is great.

In this thread there are detractors - and my thoughts are look at what they are saying. I must confess that I have not used this company, as I have been influenced by some detractors I have met on other trips. I won't act as a promoter for other companies in this thread, as the point I want to make is this, if the service is bad, most of us are not fools, we tend to not go again. And to any operators reading this, I don't know the ins and outs of your various busienss models, but look at your customer base - it's niche, I would say tech savvy, and with a resonable commitment to keep doing this type of holiday for as long as they can. Everyone talks - and the detractors often have the loudest voices - which cast further with the aid of technology. You can't blag it forever.

Intrestingly - what would it have taken to turn MC into a promoter? I guess if the trip was as good, as opposed to as bad as reported, how many other people would have been told about a great trip?

A bit of ramble. Sorry. But I hate poor service, and I listen to both promoters and detractors when I make my consumer choices.

"Well I'll be going with an open mind.

But I am the sort who dosent mind a few issues here and there as long as I can get some riding in. "

You have more determination or willpower than me.

It only takes a five minute delay or minor deviation in plan for me to decide (and give a convincing argument), that we should all give up and go the the pub instead! 🙂

Pub is always a good option 🙂

This is mental!!!

TheSwede - Member
I went out there a few years back and although it was'nt quite as bad as the OP's description, I know where he's coming from. I managed to crash hard on the second day, riding like a **** and half cut from a 4am finish session on the lash. I broke my nose and eye socket at the top of a mountain. It was decided that I would have to go back to the digs whilst the lads carried on the ride obviously. I was fairly concussed and couldn't negotiate which brake did what and basically how to get down the mountain to the van. Alan asked if I was ok. I said yes as I am a macho nob and he rode off down the trail. I got to the van after another couple of near misses. Alan opened the door, put his bike in and jumped in. I struggled to lift my bike in on my own as was pretty smashed up but no help from old Al. On the way back to the digs, he basically ignored me. He may well of thought I was just another idiot who's crashed out, but to show his feelings to a customer? I certainly wont be recommending them to anyone in a hurry. Oh and the state of his bike and kit was laughable. I did enjoy Dave's company though, who had only just started with them and was learning the trails. Good look with that I thought.

SC need a risk awareness course big time letting a concussed rider continue. (and I'd find new mates as well!)

GDRS, I said I would bow out of this thread but in reply to your considered post with my experiences in mind;

I am a "promoter" of cycleactive and their morocco trip (to the point alan suggested I am a friend of the guide). I have repeatedly extolled it on here on relevant threads (including Northwind's "what holiday" thread from a day or 2 ago). If you search STW for "morocco" you will probably find a glowing write-up and numerous pics in from us in every thread. MC is positively evangelical. It was her 30th birthday whilst we were out there, which coincided with a fabulous days riding, and at dinner that night the guides sorted a little cake with a candle. A priceless gesture.

And to prove the point here's MC on her birthday (possibly not looking any happier than in the group pic above but that's her race face 🙂

[IMG] [/IMG]

there's a couple of grumpy ones in that pic above 😀

interesting - if totally OT - to see the differences in what people wear when riding the same trails
just shows I suppose that we all have different expectations of trails and in turn could lead to some of the party not being 100% happy if the ride plays to the weakest riders

Synopsis? Has Sierra Cycling turned up yet?

I would agree with you there uplink. I think part of the problem of not thinking much to the riding in that area may have been that the rides were tailored to the overall ability of the group and that some of the more experienced riders would have missed out on the fantastic trails nearby. It wouldn't have been fair to take the 'nervous' members of the group down the 'SRAM' test track at Mijas or the technical routes above Caserabonela.

Synopsis? Has Sierra Cycling turned up yet?

Nah, it's just 6 pages of the original post rehashed, with a couple of departures into pedantry and a TJ/Flashie slagathon in the middle. Don't waste your time 🙁

RichPenny - Member

Synopsis? Has Sierra Cycling turned up yet?

Nah, it's just 6 pages of the original post rehashed, with a couple of departures into pedantry and a TJ/Flashie slagathon in the middle. Don't waste your time

Or look at the bottom of page four

Or look at the bottom of page four

Ooo! Is there naked ladies? 😀

Don't be silly.

The naked ladies are on page 2.

Just as an aside, anyone know the whereabouts of Jonny at the mo? Is he still guiding?

LOLz @richpenny.

Johnny met a girl and packed off somewhere with her, I was told.

NZ

Interesting read.

Playing devil's advocate, I think I can see both sides of the situation.

I appreciate that from a tour organiser's point of view, "unavoidable" problems can happen and, sometimes, avoidable ones too. Sometimes, shit just happens.

I've worked in places where staffing levels have been a problem; sometimes that's just bad luck if half your workforce suddenly get better offers from somewhere, sometimes it's representative of a bad employer. I've been in the thick of it when events outside of your control transpire to give you a Really Bad Day. Such is the way of things.

I'd argue that what makes a good company great is how they deal with this. SC could have been honest from the start, gone "look, I'm really sorry about this but I'm down two guides and it's all a bit difficult, but I'll do everything I can to sort things out" and I'd suspect that MungeDude might then have made allowances. It would appear that this was not done in this case, and I'd suggest that this is a bigger problem than any logistical issues.

But that's by the by. The crux of it is this.

The OP paid for a service which wasn't delivered to his satisfaction. It would appear that there may be mitigating circumstances, but critically [i][b]this is not his problem,[/b][/i] it's wholly SC's. That's how business works, sorry.

Giving SC the benefit of the doubt, perhaps the OP's group could have better communicated their dissatisfaction, and perhaps they could've been more flexible in working with SC to to sort things out. But again, should they have had to? A good tour guide should have spotted the dissent immediately and addressed it, surely?

Speaking purely personally, it seems to me that SC have lost some good staff and hired a disinterested nobber to take their place. Which is a bit of a showstopper when you're selling tours.

Billy
Maybe youre not understanding what Im saying

Im going for a guided holiday.
However, if as from time to time things do happen and Im left with an afternoon without a guide then yes Id be happy to sesion one of the trails.
Or find some stuff.

Admirable, but your paying a premium for guiding, not 'finding stuff'.

We had a week in Andalucia this year, and tbh, the quality of the guiding made the holiday (Joyriders - Hi Mark!), And if I had been left to 'find some stuff', I'd have been well pissed off, and wouldn't ever have found the quality of trails that we rode.

Well I've learnt one thing. Always ask for some STW feedback on a MTB outfit before booking. I'll be giving SC a miss ta.

Well I've learnt one thing. Always ask for some STW feedback on a MTB outfit before booking. I'll be giving SC a miss ta.

if you had googled them last week though, STW has this on googles front page

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/sierra-cycling-spain-any-experience

not detailed but not negative...

SC have lost some good staff and hired a disinterested nobber to take their place.

Seems, generally they are ok but now have one guide that most find a **** and have handled this particular week of problems very badly.

I've been with them a couple of times, one guide a dick but took me on good rides, the other a nice guy. It's all about the guide really.

blimey, that all took some reading.:)

lol tony, just got through it myself!

ever considered coaching abroad?

yeah maybe 🙂

robbo
SC need a risk awareness course big time letting a concussed rider continue. (and I'd find new mates as well!)

OP you are a pussy.

If you and your buddies were having a bad time you should have said whilst there.

Bitching about it after the fact when you had the chance to maybe square things shows a weak back.

richpips. have you read the thread?

richpips. have you read the thread?

+1

Giving a repsonse to a customer complaint via a live forum? 🙄 Wouldn't making personal contact make more sense? Then giving a response about how they resolved the customers issues on line? Isnt there a recession on?

richpips. have you read the thread?

I read it all.

I was going to say "and yes I have read...." but scratched the excess.

OP you are a pussy. If you and your buddies were having a bad time you should have said whilst there. Bitching about it after the fact when you had the chance to maybe square things shows a weak back.

You know those two things either side of your nose, yeah, them eye things, they help you read. Try doing it some time.

My view is this:
1) As a consumer you have a right to pick what product you want. Whether you like it or not a 'guided holiday' is a product. You pay money, you get the product.
2) Standards are standards. Quite frankly if I paid my money and got guides who were behaving as the OP says then I would be underwhelmed and tell them. Which he did. And quite rightly posted a balanced and non-ranting view.
3) As an overseas visitor I went to BV last year for a week of R&R and nice riding. I wanted great riding all day (tick), nice food (tick), nice people (luckily tick) and banter. It's not the Sheraton granted but then i didn't expect that. What I got was enthusiastic, organised people who understood the concept of organisation and communication. Best. Week. Ever. Will be back next year and that is a round the world trip mainly to go and ride there again. Maybe it was the Tartiflette ?
4) The response was excellent - borderline rant, i could feel the boiling point. Nice one, remind me never to go there.

You know what the funny thing is, even thoguh I think Alan @sierra should have replied differently, his reply was very unwise for his business. I still would go with them, the review and response hasn't put me off in any way! Although I really enjoyed switchbacks so I shall be sticking with them in for my future spain needs, so this is almost wasted sentiment. But I just dont think the percieved failings are actually that bad and in the OP's position I would have had a good holiday.

1) Did you get taken to the top of the hill? Yes.
2) Did you have a roof over you head? Yes.
3) Did the guides show you where the trail was? Most of the time..