[Closed] A shambolic week with Sierra Cycling

Not sure why the other smaller group always got two guides
and OP's larger group (who rightly didn't want to split up) only got the one?

Yeah, if you knew a group of 10 were coming (assuming you knew) then why wouldn't you prepare for them? Pretty obvious they wouldn't want to split.

Sorry to hear about your experience.

They sound very unprofessional, even their response seems poor and makes them sound even worse. Shocking to think that a business expects to get away with that level of service, then that level of a response.

Im glad when people do post up their experiences as honestly and as well balanced as you did, its exactly that sort of info you need from a forum.

I wont be using them. Hopefully they will learn and improve, but I doubt it. They could have so easily provided a service that left you with a great experience, but no, they failed.

Why is it the fault of the clients for the driver letting too many people get into the bus?

Reply seemed fine for me tbh - sounds like some of ths tuff happened but M_C insisting on the group stay together [ their choice as their holiday] made things a little worse and harder to cope with.
Stuff happens and in life we deal with it when it happens on your holiday it proper sucks though.

What Trimix said...

I don't often go away on guided trips but when I do I won't be using them. They sound like they don't actually appreciate their customers anymore. Thanks for the heads up.

I suppose the OP and group should have been more open at the time.

I suppose SC should have been more open as to why things were a bit shabby.

This^^^^^^

I've never used SC but stuff happens; should imagine lessons will be learnt - seems slightly unfair all the kicking they're getting on here especially going of the many people that seem to have had very good experiences.

Thought the OP clearly stated he did air his views, Sierra say he never said a word. Couple of other complete contradictions as well which makes this interesting. As it stands now the tone of the reply from Sierra has done them no favours whatsoever.

Reply seemed fine for me tbh - sounds like some of ths tuff happened but M_C insisting on the group stay together [ their choice as their holiday] made things a little worse and harder to cope with.

Without wishing to play devils advocate, mixed ability groups are a nightmare to deal with on guided rides and that does sound like a VERY mixed ability group

We were a group of 9 of mixed abilities from nervous to former Commonwealth competitor

I'm surprised the company didn't explain that working with a large group of such mixed ability was going to be impossible for 1 or 2 days given the exceptional circumstances and split the groups out into "fast" and "slow" (for want of a better term).

Surely we're on time for a threat of legal action or some such 🙂

So, mixed group of 10 riders = difficult to cater for - agree with that. The key question really then is whether the group had warned the company that that was the case to allow them to prepare accordingly.

The key question really then is whether the group had warned the company that that was the case to allow them to prepare accordingly

Or the company making amendments to the plan as and when they discover that fact. Or the group being willing to accommodate/be flexible and split up for a day or two.

Indeed. Though with a small company, it's not always possible to cater for every situation though if it's likely to be a problem and they've been 'est since 1992' then I'd expect them to check with the customers beforehand.

or at least explain once there why things aren't running so smoothly

The reply from SC seemed fine to me too

They seem to have an awful lot of people that go back to them year after year so they must be doing things most of the time in a fashion that makes people return
Maybe it was never going to work for the OP and it was a personality thing - it can often be very difficult to keep problems in context if you start off on a bad footing.

I wouldn't be put off going there again

Indeed. Though with a small company, it's not always possible to cater for every situation though if it's likely to be a problem and they've been 'est since 1992' then I'd expect them to check with the customers beforehand.

Having spent a season guiding in Whistler, you pretty well have to ignore the customers opinions of themselves! Plenty of people turned up saying they were freeride gods, only to spend all week walking down hill....

I have to join the poor response from Sierra group I'm afraid. And sadly "we" will never know what really hsa happened, other than a group of 10 people paid a company to provide them with a weeks guided MTB holiday and they felt they were let down.

My opinion of Sierra from the review and response is that they seem to have either had enough of the business and don't know what to do next to get out of it OR they get plenty of business with the service they offer and are happy to continue in that way.

Being a worrier I'm in the "won't be using them" party should I ever be in a position to go on a holiday in that region.

Having spent a season guiding in Whistler, you pretty well have to ignore the customers opinions of themselves! Plenty of people turned up saying they were freeride gods, only to spend all week walking down hill....

I didn't know Hora had been to Whistler! 😉

Don't see anything from Sierra that explains this, and surprised mor ehasn't been made of it:

We completed what was planned to fill the whole morning in an hour, so our guide Dave invited us to go ride the loop again, whilst he sat in a cafe. So no medical support, no guiding, no "here's an emergency number" etc etc.

If I was paying someone for a day's guiding, got an hour's riding, and was then told to fend for myself, I'd be fuming.

As for the 10 in a van thing, the OP clearly stated they were a group of 9. They had some stranger lumped in with them making 10.

By the way the other 2 groups of 3 and 4 bikers not in your party praised our setup and have re-booked for next year.

Plenty reasons obviously, with staff and vehicle problems but surely it could have been handled better and those problems are not the paying guests fault, so every effort should have been made to lessen the impact. Poor show IMO and no proper apology (I would have expected an offer of a return discount at the very least) for a holiday which really wasn't as it should have been.

If I was paying someone for a day's guiding, got an hour's riding, and was then told to fend for myself, I'd be fuming

+1.

And the "like it or lump it - I couldn't care less" reply has only made it worse for them imo.

Morning Will.

Absolutely excellent reply from SC

right up until these points 🙁

Nice to know “Cycleactive (and Rich Barnard)” are so good , friend of yours is he?

I´m sure your posting will do some damage to our reputation...

You just can't attack someone in an apology, even if they really want to and it's correct. It was SC that damaged their own reputation by allowing it to happen in the first place as clearly something did go wrong. The apology was brilliant right up until that point 🙁

it's a good thing that no-one included the word review in their post otherwise this might show up on Google

We will never know what really happened but that said I think the SC response is pretty p*ss poor, and that in itself would stop me from booking with them. As they say, sh*t happens but it is how you deal with it that makes the difference, in this case it wasn't exactly great.

On reading the original post I was kind of on the fence over how much was really that bad, and how much was one man's perspective.

The reply from SC has put me firmly on the side of the fence that would never dream of having anything to do with them.

i would have held an open mind on this one until alan posted a reply, the nature of his reply is a dead give away that he couldn't care less.
plus he didn't actually address all the points raised.

The reply from SC has put me firmly on the side of the fence that would never dream of having anything to do with them.

And just for their info., which part of their post made you think that?

I'd suggest France next year. A bit of a peace offering could have really sorted this out. I read the response as "bollocks you weren't our favorites anyway".

(Mr MC now with my own account!)

I will make one and one only response to Alan so this doesnt descend into a snipefest, so if he replies again as is his right I will not follow up. In bold not because I am more important or shouting, but using the quote function got complicated.

To review your complaints:
Guides: We normally work well with 2 professional guides with total knowledge of all our trails with myself as backup. One had an accident so had to call up a fully qualified Spanish guide. Good but not much English and limited trail knowledge.
The other guide Dave unfortunately fell ill for the whole week and was out of the picture except as a driver for one day.
Ash our new fully qualified guide joined us Tuesday but had no knowledge of the routes.
Still, everyone got out riding each day.

[b]Is that a positive? I would have thought that would be a minumum?![/b]

We gave you an option of splitting your group by ability, something you declined, it would have been better to have 2 groups of 7 given the limited resources for that week.

[b]I was never party to this conversation. Who was it with? The nature of the riding was never discussed so we never had the option of considering where/how to ride. You were asked on more than one day what the plan was and your reply was "oh I dont like plans they have a habit of going wrong". Dave was repeatedly asked about the trail and was completely unable to describe them so we couldnt assess who would ride what[/b]

Buses: Picked up a brand new bus in September thinking that would solve transport problems but second bus broke down with broken alternator. Could have rented another bus but as we were only doing local hills - multiple uplifts with one bus with a short wait seemed the solution to go for.

[b]Why were we only doing local trails? Convenience? Again we were never offered a choice or an itinerary of going further afield. And the one day the guides (you and Ash) were left to load the vans (lunch stop by the mad walkway) one our our groups lovely carbon frame came back with gouges in the top tube. Ash was very careful to pack his bike first out of harms way (and who can blame him)[/b]

There was 14 bikers out that week there was never an option of 10 persons in a 9-seater something which in any case we would not allow.
When the second bus broke down whilst I was away waiting for the repair vehicle your group of 9 insisted in taking the new bus back with a driver making an illegal 10 persons because, once again you wanted to be together.

[b]on the friday YOU drove 10 of us (9 clients and you) in a 9 seater bus. You could have made 2 trips but chose not to. Or hired a second bus given the other was out of action long term. We weren't desperate to stay together and didnt insist on it, we were happy to ride together. How you chose to accommodate that was up to you.[/b]

The others came back in a half empty bus, bet you never offered them the choice of going first.

[b]Again not sure this reflects well on you or warrants a reply. I didn't realise it was our job to manage the transport and juggle clients needs?[/b]

All our guides carry full medical kit, enough spares to get off the mountain and always carry a pump. We expect you to at least bring a basic tool kit if you bring your own bike. Each of our staff is in contact with each other and with the bus for instant response to any problems..

[b]How could dave solve problems sat in cafe when we were riding? Did he call you to tell you he had lost a client? What was your response? You never came to see he had made it home okay? I also know Ash had recommended walkie talkies as there is no reception in places. Dave borrowed one of our pumps to fix Huw's flat, so where was Daves comprehensive kit. I also overheard your conversation with Ash at the trail head outside "tonys place" where you asked him what kit he had (maybe a conversation to have before you leave) and he replied "one tube and some plasters". When we told him how many flats we were having with thorns he replied "oh dont tell me that!" [/b]

By the way the other 2 groups of 3 and 4 bikers not in your party praised our setup and have re-booked for next year.

[b]not surprised given they were a group of at most 5 with 2 guides. I know they have never ridden overseas elsewhere for comparison and during their 2 week stay were re-riding routes as they helped Salvo with route finding. [/b]
Posted On Sierra Cycling facebook page this morning
"Hi big Al thanks to you and Mary and our brother Salva dont forget the boys Danglewood Dave and Gash for a great 2 weeks biking and beers we will be back next year long drive home but we got here see you soon Dave Dawn Steve and Sue"

[b]should I get the other 8 in our group to post up negative replies, or are we just getting immature?[/b]

Nice to know “Cycleactive (and Rich Barnard)” are so good , friend of yours is he?

[b]again not sure this is worth a reply? Only met him the once in Morocco 2 1/2yrs ago, on a holiday we still rave about[/b]

You also came with 3 in the group who obviously liked us well enough to come out for a second visit.

[b]..and were bitterly disappointed this time around, apologetic to the rest of the group, and useful in filling in gaps in guiding and finding lost riders. The key seems to be the loss of the old guide and Dave his replacement. [/b]

We are now back to full strength so hopefully no more problems.

Apologies for the unavoidable problems of last week, avoidable problems will be reviewed and err.. avoided.

I´m sure your posting will do some damage to our reputation and bookings but hopefully the 99% silent majority will still enjoy their time out here with us.

[b]I hope so for their sakes. Your poor service damaged your reputation with a large group of seasoned bike travellers who've used a range of companies. The bare facts are you overloaded a bus, ran a too-large group with one guide who didn't guide and didn't have basic equipment, never communicated any itinerary or options with us, and you took us on illegal trails (which you havent commented on). Others have replied here that they were also underwhelmed with SC. At least future punters can realistically manage their expectations beyond only positive reviews in a guest book. I personally made my feelings very clear to Ash on his first day with us (assuming he hasn't told you about the conversation in the van you might want to ask him). Feel free to maintain a defensive stance and ignore critical feedback, your in your 20th year so obviously you and the majority of your clientele are content with the status quo. [/b]

working with a large group of such mixed ability was going to be impossible ..............split the group

Looking at it another way.

If I went on a surfing* holliday with Miss Spoon, our abilities are slightly different, I'd be peeved off if the guide said we had to go in different groups if we'd paid as a group for a group holliday, not a singles holliday.

*she'd not want to go on a cycling holiday

A bit of a peace offering could have really sorted this out. I read the response as "bollocks you weren't our favorites anyway".

I would be willing to put myself forward as an impartial assessor of their services, I'll only charge £25 / hour plus ex's.

I'll report back pon my return 😆

I used to be a dive guide and in my experience you plan things so you can cope with problems. Expected ones and unexpected ones, likely ones and unlikely ones. You have back up plans, back up guides/routes/vehicles etc.

I had to plan for various equipmnent failures/weather changes etc etc, so it is possible to do. We would plan for everything and even the impossible, it was good practice.

You keep your guests informed and treat them like royalty. You dont act in a laid back shambolic manner, you act in a very professional manner. You seek out feedback all the time day by day. You do not make do. You do not wait for complaints. If a problem arrises you fix it, that your job and that what the guests pay for.

If the group is mixed you cater for it with extra guides / smaller groups / some training etc. You make the suggestion before hand.

Its not up to the guests to do any of this, a good organisation will sort it and ensure the guests have a good time.

If you have to provide a substandard service you do it free and apologise there and then and make it up the next day.

That is how we used to run our diving company, we had to or we would loose out to our competitors because divers use a forum and talk to each other. Just like mountanin bikers.

This company seems to have failed on all counts.

Nice to know “Cycleactive (and Rich Barnard)” are so good , friend of yours is he?

I've been on courses with Cycleactive and they ARE excellent, professional and ultimately offered a great serivce.

I'm sure any professional organisation that offered holidays based around "guided cycling" would be gutted if their customers only got a hour or so's riding while a member of staff who they are paying just sat in a cafe.

A reply to a customer who is disputing that your service is far from good should never contain anything that makes you look unprofessional:

Ouch! That hurt! Maybe you could have said something during the week?

bet you never offered them the choice of going first.

Nice to know “Cycleactive (and Rich Barnard)” are so good , friend of yours is he?

avoidable problems will be reviewed and err.. avoided.

Loved all the other companies jumping on the bandwagon!

Also if I booked a holiday with my friends and we where split up because of ability i'd be gutted. I've gone on holiday with them not some randoms.

Interesting case study of how social media can be used to counter unhappy customers in a professional manner. Or Not.
Andy@crc worked out how to do this
Alan clearly has not and has IMO dug himself a much deeper hole with that tone of response. he comes across as defensive. Attacking CycleActive/Rich Barnard come across as very immature and irrelevant. For the record, as someone who IS a friend, Mr MC's view of Rich is accurate...

Ill be out there over Christmas and despite all your rambling moaning about the trip, I can still see me and my friends having a cracking time.

And re-reading your complaints, its still nothing that would have bothered me on the trip.

Ill let you now how we get on.

broess its a good point, I had expected a short apologetic reply along the lines of "sorry, I had not realised, oversight, half price next year." Even if inside Alan@Sierra was boiling it makes good business sense to kiss arse.

Can't help but feel this is karma for Alan almost leaving me jobless a couple of weeks back, just a shame someone else had to suffer. Wasen't the Spanish chap a temp or does he not know that yet!

Sounds awful and with the large array of competing companies a very unwise response.

The dave hinde of holidays!

The dave hinde of holidays!

Ouch!

Only comment I will make is I spent a long time e-mailing Alan asking about the holiday. He was clearly informed about huge disparity of riding ability in our group. I was informed it could be catered for, in that 2 groups would head out in am, all meet for lunch then maybe separate riding in pm, which we wouldn't have had a problem with. We have been mtbing as a group for 15 yrs so we know each others riding ability and wishes very very well and don't have issues with doing seperate things and meeting up later. Just my comment on riding ability.

Sounds like very poor service. What is equally poor is the failure to accept responsibility for a paying customer being left disappointed.

Personally, I'd have avoided S.C. after the original post but could have been turned round by a professional well considered response. The reality is that I wouldn't touch S.C. with a barge pole now.

This thread is already on page 2 of Google for 'Sierra Cycling', if I was S.C. I would try some damage limitation fast. (I hope that does not mean getting STW towers to kill the thread as a total loss of face would result)

See now this thread is near the top on google. I'd say that immediate compensation and much kissing of butt would have been a better bet all round.

(I hope that does not mean getting STW towers to kill the thread as a total loss of face would result)

Nothing to add really, apart from the observation that the fact the thread has gone on for five pages probably gives an insight into the thinking at STW Towers. That said, they're swift enough to [s]shut down[/s] completely disappear innocent threads when a big company gets all lawyered up, as I've discovered...

This thread is already on page 2 of Google for 'Sierra Cycling'

It's interesting because normally stuff on this forum makes it to page 1 shocking quickly. I suspect it shows how Google are now not counting bad reviews as highly after all the spectacles debacle last year

Trimix hits the nail on the head with regards to customer service.

Sancho - Member
And re-reading your complaints, its still nothing that would have bothered me on the trip.

You'd be happy with one hour's guided riding and being left to fend for yourself for the remainder of the day on the same loop?

Or perhaps it's not climbing google as fast as some threads do because folk are writing SC instead of Sierra Cycling?

Id be happy to go ride stuff in the area - yes.
I dont need to be led around
and looking at the cable car descent Id have sessioned that for the rest of the day.
In fact I hope that is what we do in December.

So not a problem.